Why the fuss about engine oil?

[Omotesando]

:rolleyes:

I have read numerous threads here, with people discussing the type of Synthetic Oil to put into their Euro Accord or Normal Accord once its run in properly.


Could someone please correct me if I am wrong, but according to my research, Honda Dealership does not use the normal Castrol Magnatec sae 10W-40 which is NOT a synthetic, but in fact the Honda branded Castrol Magnatec is specially formulated for our cars and not only has a rating of 10W-30, but it is fully SYNTHETIC!! :wave:



So have I been ill-informed, or is it just that no-one else has asked about this from Honda?? :o :(

[Eurotony]

Castrol magnatec is NOT synthetic. The oil that the Honda dealers use is a Castrol blended mineral oil specifically blended by Castrol to Honda specifications. It is not branded as Magnatec. So long as you use any oil that is 10w-30 you will not have any trouble with your vehicles warranty. I use Mobil 1 10w-30 which is a full synthetic & I have it in writting from Honda that there will be no warranty issue's with using this oil. :thumbsup:
Eurotony

[nexace]

When I picked up my Euro, they had a Havoline floor sheet to cover the mat. Made me wonder if that's the oil that particular dealership uses. I heard different dealers use different oils but with my first service coming up, it's definitely worth looking into.

[Omotesando]

Castrol magnatec is NOT synthetic. The oil that the Honda dealers use is a Castrol blended mineral oil specifically blended by Castrol to Honda specifications. It is not branded as Magnatec. So long as you use any oil that is 10w-30 you will not have any trouble with your vehicles warranty. I use Mobil 1 10w-30 which is a full synthetic & I have it in writting from Honda that there will be no warranty issue's with using this oil. :thumbsup:
Eurotony



I have been told by both Doncaster as well as John Blair Hondas service department (Vic) since a few years back that this special blend of oil is a full Synthetic of the Magnatec variant, not available on the market.


What I think I should do is re-confirm this with both Castrol and Honda. Afterall my memory isnt that bad, I remember specifically what the service department guy(s) told me unless they too, are mistaken.


If thats the case, they are surely going to get their ssss caned for misleading the customer!

[coladuna]

:rolleyes:

Could someone please correct me if I am wrong, but according to my research, Honda Dealership does not use the normal Castrol Magnatec sae 10W-40 which is NOT a synthetic, but in fact the Honda branded Castrol Magnatec is specially formulated for our cars and not only has a rating of 10W-30, but it is fully SYNTHETIC!! :wave:



There is no such thing as "specially formulated for our cars" as far as I'm concerned. It's all just BS they dish out to customers. i can say that with Honda engine oil, the oil level dropped off really quickly after a service. It's a lot better now that I've been using Shell Helix Ultra. My oil level used to drop almost to minimum level when the car was almost due for service.

Also, it's 5W-40W, which covers a broader range of temperature compared to 10W-30W. So if they say it's the wrong grade, tell them to shove it where it belongs.

[aaronng]

I called my dealer and asked. They use Magnatec, 10W-40. It's the non-synthetic stuff. It's ok stuff and it's cheap. And they charge $45 for it. So I will bring my own oil next time.

[tknova]

All dealers would not put fully synthetic oil into a car at a service because of the $$ factor

And when a dealership says there oil is 'semi-synthetic' you might aswell be putting normal mineral oil into your car

Semi-synthetic oil is only 8% fortified synthetic. Which is what magnatec is.. Good running in oil but that's about it

The best oil IMO is Motul 8100xs 5-40w synth or Motul 300v chrono 10-40w

Would recommend only using it after 10,000 or 15,000km's

[carlyboy]

A mate who is a diesel mechanic told me to stay clear of magnatec cause it also picks up fine metallic particles and runs them through your engine

[aaronng]

Nah man, magnatec is not magnetic. They just call it that because they claim that it will tend to stick to the metal surface of the cylinder. If it did rely on magnetism, then the engines with alloy pistons and allow blocks would not get any protection.

btw, just got down to Autobarn and bought engine oil at 20% off.last day today.

[Omotesando]

Does the Euro accord use a fair bit of oil? Kind of like the LS1 of the Commondoors... :( Better check it out.



Thanks for confirming that they use the normal Magnetec Castrol.

Like I said, my dealer said they use the 10W-30 variant synthetic version but this is in Melbourne, which I dont think is relevant. Don't you hate it when everyone tells u different stories.. :(

[aaronng]

Each dealer uses different oils. I know of some who use real Honda FEO 10W-30, that come in huge drums.

My Euro hasn't consumed any oil in between the changes. I drive about 8000km in 6 months. The first 2 changes were with Magnatec, no oil consumption with the level still near the top limit. I'll be changing to Castrol 5w-30 or 0w-40. I have both oils at home. LOL.

[Omotesando]

I did some research - and it looks like my dealer is right but wrong.
Under CASTROL, not under normal oil products, but under Car Dealerships and Workshops, look what I found:

CASTROL FMX MAGNATEC 10W-30 (Semi-Synthetic)
CASTROL MAGNATEC 5W-40 (Full Synthetic)

These and some other grades on this page are clearly not available on the market for us to buy, I have never seen these grades before!

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/multipleproductsection.do?categoryId=9000190&contentId=7000378



Anyway, I have contacted HONDA just waiting for their reply.
Also having done some web searches apparently different dealers might use different engine oils.



I think I will try to use the Magnatec 5W-40 (Full Synthetic) if its available. Not as thin as Mobil 1 0W-40 (which is very good for street cars, revs really well).

I kind of like the fact that Magnatec has a molecular attraction surface coating, and have used Magnatec 10W-40 (non synthetic) on previous car before, worked pretty well IMO..

[smoknhothonda]

A mate who is a diesel mechanic told me to stay clear of magnatec cause it also picks up fine metallic particles and runs them through your engine

Luckily enough the Honda engineers decided to go for an engine oil filter!!!

But as stated previously magnatec doesnt pick up fine metallic particles, hopefully the particles would be trapped in the filter anyway!!

Use a full synthetic end of story :thumbsup:

[tknova]

Magnatec is a good oil if your just driving your car, But if you want an engine that revs alot freely & full synth oil will not break down as quick.

If you just potter around in your accord.. Magnatec is fine.

But, if you want to pay that extra $30 or $40 more for extra protection & so forth,, I'd do it :)

[Omotesando]

Yes but did you got to read what I wrote before...

There IS Fully Synthetic as well as Semi Synthetic Castrol Magnatec oil - it is available to car dealers and I am using the FMX Magnatec Semi-Synthetic (I believe) at the moment.


Think about it - the protection of Magnetec PLUS Full Synthetic....


I just wrote about what I discovered down bottom of last page! :)

[aaronng]

THe FMX that omotesamdo is talking about is different from the Magnatec that my dealer put in. Mine is a 10w-40, mineral oil. It runs fine for normal driving. But at around the 5 month mark, you can feel that when you are accelerating that the engine is noisier and rough. Very odd when you consider that at the beginning after you have just serviced, the engine is butter smooth. I've already noticed this happening twice. So I have no doubt that mineral Magnatec is insufficient for the 6 month service duration IF YOU DRIVE ENTHUSIASTICALLY. If you are a sedate driver, then it should last til the next 6 month service.

[EuroAccord13]

I'm a convert now in Engine Oil...

MOTUL is the go, I'm using it now and the car's quieter and the revs are faster..

My next oil change in another 5000kms, I will try out ELF oil and see how it goes...

[Omotesando]

Yep I agree that full synthetic is the ONLY way to go!!! except I had my dealer stuffing me around although my car still running in, so didnt really mind but only for this time!


I have tried all sorts of engine oils in previous car, only exception is ELF and FUCH.


I know ELF is good. Many people think Redline is good, which I tried but found didnt really seem to last long.

I am a bit of Mobil 1 fan as they put a BMW on a test, it ran for 100,000 straight no oil changes and apparently engine was still as new but might be just marketing crap! LOL! and MOTUL is really good as well all the professional races use them!

Too many choices, but I kind of like the Syn Magnetec concept for now :O

[aaronng]

I'm a convert now in Engine Oil...

MOTUL is the go, I'm using it now and the car's quieter and the revs are faster..

My next oil change in another 5000kms, I will try out ELF oil and see how it goes...
Was that Motul 300V or the 4100 Turbolight?

[EuroAccord13]

Was that Motul 300V or the 4100 Turbolight?

8100 X-Cess....

Actually I'll put in the oils I've used before with my personal opinions... (Not restricted only to my Accord)...

Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 5W-50?? - Very good for Turbo cars, almost everyone I've talked to say it benefitted their Turby cars... So did my Skyline and Silvia. At that time many years ago, it costs around 50 bucks for 5 litres.. I think it costs heaps more now...

Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 Full Synthetic - Tried it on both my Magnas (Auto and Manual) and the Euro... Honestly, I didn't feel any difference as to what I felt with the Castrol Formula R, but I did note that fuel consumption dropped.... Around 50 bucks for 5 litres I think...

Shell Helix Plus 10W-40 Semi Synthetic - Don't even bother knowing....:)

Castrol Formula R Full Synthetic 5W-30 - Tried on the Euro, free revving oil.. You can actually feel it rev and go but at around 65 bucks for 5 litres.. There are other options...

Castrol MagnaTec 01W-40 (Debate over whether it's semi or full, but I believe it's semi with synthetic ester) - for around 30 dollars.. It's good value for money. Why I think believe that it really has molecular attraction technology like Motor Up (Yes, I've tried Motor Up before, details below).. My Magna engine was going through internal engine work and it was without a start up for days while it lay naked in the engine bay. The oil actually stucked to the internal parts, ok yes, some might argue that there will always be a layer of engine oil left using any oil, this I cannot debate as I don't know how slowly oil flow to the sump or whereever gravity takes them. I swept my finger on the oil, it's not a thick layer... Dunno what else to say...

Motul 8100 Xcess 5W-40 Full Synthetic - I paid 63 dollars for 5 litres although I believe yfin paid less than that. What can I say, Probably the same thing I said about Formula R and being more well known and cheaper hehehehe...



Never thought of using ELF but the distributor is offering me one bottle to try so why not? :D


MOTOR UP - Ahhh... This things been going on for many many years lol.. Been using them for all my cars except the Euro due to it being "Hard to find" in Australia and my stock pile of them that I got overseas have run out (They're cheap back home LOL, although I had a small issue with customs at the airport where they thought I was smuggling bottles of alcohol!)....

Anyway, Motor Up has the same thing with MagnaTec, where the addictive that you add with the engine oil actually goes to the metal.. I saw the demo and it showed how the oil sank in the water (oil is supposed to be float on the top of the water) and actually seeked it's way and stucked itself into a coin.. Well I thought I try it so I did the same thing, a nail in a glass of water, poured Motor Up in, Motor Up sank, stucked itself to the nail.. I was amazed!!! But like any addictives, they have their critics... Up the each personals' experience I think....

[aaronng]

Thanks for your write up! I've been searching for Motul reviews of the 4100 and came across harsh words for the Mobil 1 5w-50. But those reviews were for turbo'd skylines, the the oil did take punishment.

Now I have Castrol Formula R 5w-30 and 0w-40 sitting here. I was thinking of putting the 0w-40 next month for use in summer and autumn, while the 5w-30 will go in for winter and spring. Would you recommend the other way around?

The mineral Magnatec (mineral + the ester that bonds to the metal giving it that magnatec feeling) that my dealer uses (10w-40 and comes in drums), doesn't last 6 months for me. Recently the engine's been getting rougher. Very very harsh and you can feel the vibration when under throttle at 4000rpm. Same thing happened before the last service and the car had the same oil. I'm going synthetic, break in time's over!

[euro77]

The Castrol Formula R 5w-30 that I've been using in my car goes dirty very quickly. I hardly drive my car these days, only 2-3 times a week, but I can't believe it's as black as when I've just finished my track day. Unbelievable. I don't think this oil can last 5000k/6 months.

[yfin]

The Castrol Formula R 5w-30 that I've been using in my car goes dirty very quickly. I hardly drive my car these days, only 2-3 times a week, but I can't believe it's as black as when I've just finished my track day. Unbelievable. I don't think this oil can last 5000k/6 months.

Hey Euro77 - what air filter are you using these days? Maybe it is time to replace/clean it.

[EuroAccord13]

The Castrol Formula R 5w-30 that I've been using in my car goes dirty very quickly. I hardly drive my car these days, only 2-3 times a week, but I can't believe it's as black as when I've just finished my track day. Unbelievable. I don't think this oil can last 5000k/6 months.

It funny, I changed mine after 5000kms and the oil was put in before the Heathcote Drags we had... didn't look too black... But then again, when did I change your oil? before or after the track day? that oil was black indeed LOL! :D

[aaronng]

Well, if the oil is going dirty easily, that means carbon or dirt is coming from somewhere. What petrol are you using? Also, dirty engine oil means the dirt that would otherwise sit on the engine internal surfaces are being kept in suspension and removed when the oil is changed. For me, an oil that does last long means the engine characteristics such as smoothness, power, revvabilty and fuel consumption does not change for the worse as it goes through the 6 month period. The oil I'm using is showing loss in smoothness and revvability at the 5 month mark, for the last 2 oil changes. Did you experience something similar to this with Formula R 5w-30?

[r`Geno]

Here's some useful info:

Oil myths & facts (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26482)

[yfin]

Castrol Formula R Full Synthetic 5W-30 - Tried on the Euro, free revving oil.. You can actually feel it rev and go but at around 65 bucks for 5 litres.. There are other options...


Hey - are you sure you were using the 5w30? The 5w30 is around $40-$45 - the 0w40 is the expensive one in the $60 range.

[EuroAccord13]

Hey - are you sure you were using the 5w30? The 5w30 is around $40-$45 - the 0w40 is the expensive one in the $60 range.


Oh O.... I think I've bought the 0W-40 Instead then...... Mmmmm Kewl... Just wasted 20 bucks LOL!

[yfin]

Oh O.... I think I've bought the 0W-40 Instead then...... Mmmmm Kewl... Just wasted 20 bucks LOL!

Nah - the 0w40 is more expensive for a reason.

[REV888]

Im using Motul 300V Chrono 10w-40 ultra happy with it.

When car engine is idle (even in heavy traffic on a hot day with aircon full blast!) its a smooth as a Baby's Bottom :D & when you put your foot on the gas you can really feel a smooth acceleration.

[Omotesando]

When people talk about revvability, smoothness, longetivity, etc,. - if you really want the car to have all these characters when you are being 'very contradictory' with regards to protecting your engine.


A 0W-40 oil is very very thin, it will give you more power, more free revving ride as well as Fuel Economy. Yes it still protects your car but NO, you won't find anyone using this type of oil on a race track because it won't take the punishment.


Most people going on circuit track use around 15W-60 oil for Turbo cars, due to its extra viscocity (thicker) protection. In sacrifice, a 13.0s 0-400m car would lose nearly 1 second over the same 0-400m.




Don't forget an Engine Oil's main usage is actually to protect and lubricate various parts inside the engine.

If it is too thin, it won't protect enough.
If it is too thick, then it won't protect some parts such as bearings as well as middle weight oils, not to mention it degrades the performance a lot.



A 0W-40 oil is actually very thin, it might or might not protect the engine enough - but it will most definitely be the best Fuel Economical and Free Revving engine oil. The only way to find out which oil is best for which driver and his car, taking into account the way he drives/thrashes it is to do an Oil Analysis which shows the metals being worn off during say a 5,000km or 10,000km period.


As for engine oil getting dirty too easily, this doesn't necessarily mean its a bad oil. Most probably the other way around.

Afterall those black carbon build-ups DID NOT start to accumulate after you put the new oil in, but that was already in there before.

A swap to a new engine oil which got dirty early means that it is cleaning up the engine internals as it should, which the older engine oil didn't ! It just means that the first couple of time this happens, you have to change more frequently to fully flush the system unless you use Engine Flusher (which has its cons, which is another story).


Engine oil becomes black only after a few hundred Kms anyway. If you are worried then you should do an oil analysis and if you are happy with the results, stick to the same oil! :D

[euro77]

Well, if the oil is going dirty easily, that means carbon or dirt is coming from somewhere. What petrol are you using? Also, dirty engine oil means the dirt that would otherwise sit on the engine internal surfaces are being kept in suspension and removed when the oil is changed. For me, an oil that does last long means the engine characteristics such as smoothness, power, revvabilty and fuel consumption does not change for the worse as it goes through the 6 month period. The oil I'm using is showing loss in smoothness and revvability at the 5 month mark, for the last 2 oil changes. Did you experience something similar to this with Formula R 5w-30?

I use BP Ultimate. revvability and fuel consumption doesn't change, but I can feel engine smoothness deteriorate. The engine sounds harsher than before when the oil is still clean.

Nick, can't remember when you changed the oil, when was the heathcote drag day?

[Omotesando]

By the way, there isn't really any point comparing different Viscosity grade oils of various brands to each other.


Surely a Castrol R 5W-30 would be revving better than Mobil 1 5W-50, because it is thinner.

If you want to compare, should compare a Mobil 1 10W-30 to another 10W-30.


But end of the day, the best oil is one that is as thin as possible but still protecting the smaller parts inside the engine, with the maximum protection for the longest period.

One Word = Oil Analysis!


We should actually chip in on this, and do some experiment about it...


Anyone in on the idea? :D

[aaronng]

When people talk about revvability, smoothness, longetivity, etc,. - if you really want the car to have all these characters when you are being 'very contradictory' with regards to protecting your engine.


A 0W-40 oil is very very thin, it will give you more power, more free revving ride as well as Fuel Economy. Yes it still protects your car but NO, you won't find anyone using this type of oil on a race track because it won't take the punishment.
0w-40 is thicker than 10w-30, you know? Only at 0 degrees Celsius (which is what the first number means) is the 0w-40 thinner than 5w-30. I haven't heard of an NA Honda owner using thick *W-60 oil at the race track. Mr. Spoon even says Honda's OEM 10w-30 oil is good enough for the track.



Most people going on circuit track use around 15W-60 oil for Turbo cars, due to its extra viscocity (thicker) protection. In sacrifice, a 13.0s 0-400m car would lose nearly 1 second over the same 0-400m.
That is because it is a turbo'ed engine. At those higher pressures, the thicker oil helps prevent blowby.



Don't forget an Engine Oil's main usage is actually to protect and lubricate various parts inside the engine.

If it is too thin, it won't protect enough.
If it is too thick, then it won't protect some parts such as bearings as well as middle weight oils, not to mention it degrades the performance a lot.
Yup, I agree 100%



A 0W-40 oil is actually very thin, it might or might not protect the engine enough - but it will most definitely be the best Fuel Economical and Free Revving engine oil. The only way to find out which oil is best for which driver and his car, taking into account the way he drives/thrashes it is to do an Oil Analysis which shows the metals being worn off during say a 5,000km or 10,000km period.
It's thicker than 10w-30 at operating temperature. And it's not as fuel economical as 10w-30. Yup, and oil analysis is a very good suggestion. I would like to do one as well on my oil. Any idea on the cost and where I can do it in NSW?



As for engine oil getting dirty too easily, this doesn't necessarily mean its a bad oil. Most probably the other way around.

Afterall those black carbon build-ups DID NOT start to accumulate after you put the new oil in, but that was already in there before.
This is true. It gets darker up to a point where you get sludge because the oil cannot hold anymore fine particles in suspension and the particles are too small for the oil filter to trap. That's why i-VTEC Hondas have a 6 month service schedule. To prevent any buildup of sludge that could jam the VTEC and VTC system.