Euro: Wheels comparo

[V205]

The wheels 0-100km/h time for the euro lux 6 spd was 7.8 sec. That's the first I've seen that's less than 8 sec. Go the euro!!!!

[evolution42]

yeh the 2003 review stated 8.1secs. maybe the wider tyres (225 vs. 205) helped traction off the line

[yfin]

yeh the 2003 review stated 8.1secs. maybe the wider tyres (225 vs. 205) helped traction off the line

Mileage and temp makes the biggest difference.

Under 8 is not uncommon - even Honda in the UK quotes 7.9 sec to 100kph as an official Honda figure. What you don't see often is figures for the standard model - all the mags seem to test the lux which is the fat ass model.

A NZ test got 7.6 (std model) which is quite easily achievable in my view for the standard.

http://motoring.nzoom.com/motoring_detail/0,2734,217018-388-390,00.html

[BiLL|z0r]

What effect would the auto have on it. I'm guessing mid to high 8's?

[yfin]

What effect would the auto have on it. I'm guessing mid to high 8's?

Diff gear ratios, less gears and more weight again. Most times I have seen are in the low or flat 9s. High 8s would be possible though with a well run in model IMO.

Probably the biggest drain on times to 100kph with the auto is that it only hits vtec once whereas the manual hits it twice.

[albii]

another thing is i think they test the 7.8 0-100 time with the vsa on so taking into account the much lighter standard and turning off the vsa as well as a euro owner who knows how to get the best out of their car that time should be quicker....way quicker......i have seen 7.3 for a stock euro standard and 15.23 and that was tested by a magazine too.....

[Ferrarista]

I always thought it was 7.5, thats what a mob in NZ quoted

[D16Y]

Diff gear ratios, less gears and more weight again. Most times I have seen are in the low or flat 9s. High 8s would be possible though with a well run in model IMO.

Probably the biggest drain on times to 100kph with the auto is that it only hits vtec once whereas the manual hits it twice.

wat do u mean auto only hits vtec once from 0-100. my vtec engages roughly around 6k rpm in first gear...

[yfin]

wat do u mean auto only hits vtec once from 0-100. my vtec engages roughly around 6k rpm in first gear...

Not sure what you want me to explain - the auto hits 6000rpm once on its way to 100kph. The manual hits 6000rpm twice so it gets the spurt twice.

[Omotesando]

Not bad for a family car I guess if its in the high 7's, but did anyone notice that the car loses urge from 3rd gear onwards? Especially going uphill?

Personally I think the VCT coming on around 6000rpm does very little considering that redline is at 7000 and cut off is at 7200.

Even the worst turbo lagging car such as the 2003 STi onwards has a huge power band from 3500rpm to 7000rpm, and 8000rpm on the JDM spec. Granted below that rpm there is not much power, but in my present honda it feels like turbo-lag from 700rpm all the way to 6000rpm as a comparo :(

[aaronng]

VTEC is not a powerband. It's a change in the cam profile. If you check the wheel dynos, you actually get less torque at 6000-7000rpm when compared to the lower rev range of 4000-5000rpm.

And NA does not have turbo lag. Turbo lag is when a turbo-equipped car with its lowered compression ratio of 8.0:1 tries to go without enough positive pressure. 8.0:1 is a very low figure for an NA engine, which is essentially what a turboed engine is when the turbo is not spinning enough.

[yfin]

Not bad for a family car I guess if its in the high 7's, but did anyone notice that the car loses urge from 3rd gear onwards? Especially going uphill?

Personally I think the VCT coming on around 6000rpm does very little considering that redline is at 7000 and cut off is at 7200.

Even the worst turbo lagging car such as the 2003 STi onwards has a huge power band from 3500rpm to 7000rpm, and 8000rpm on the JDM spec. Granted below that rpm there is not much power, but in my present honda it feels like turbo-lag from 700rpm all the way to 6000rpm as a comparo :(

I like 3rd gear once it is above 80kph. It is really good for overtaking road trains in WA! Believe it or not the 80-120 time of the Euro (5 sec flat) in 3rd is quite good. See Wheels June 2005 - in this same range in 3rd Porsche Boxster (5.5) and Z4 (4.9). Sure it is no M5 (3 sec) and Megane 225 (4 sec) but it isn't exactly flat either.

I know what you mean by the car feeling like turbo lag - the power delivery is so linear that you don't realise the pace it is gaining unless you watch the speedo. You don't feel spurts of power it is just so linear. Deceptive sensation I think.

By the way - redline is 7100rpm and cut out 7300 (but usually higher at 7350)

[MiSloVic]

noticed that the timing was taking on a cool 5 degrees weather... this can make a difference..

honda engines simply love COOL weather..

[Omotesando]

VTEC is not a powerband. It's a change in the cam profile. If you check the wheel dynos, you actually get less torque at 6000-7000rpm when compared to the lower rev range of 4000-5000rpm.

And NA does not have turbo lag. Turbo lag is when a turbo-equipped car with its lowered compression ratio of 8.0:1 tries to go without enough positive pressure. 8.0:1 is a very low figure for an NA engine, which is essentially what a turboed engine is when the turbo is not spinning enough.



I don't see the point of what you wrote at all to be honest. Who said VTEC was a powerband? :confused: Who said N/A cars have Turbo-Lag, it doesn't even have a turbo ROFL.... I think I would know seeing that my last car was a mild-tuned turbo S15 Silva. :wave:



If you actually read in my original comparo context - I was only intending to say that people 'complain' very falsely on many forums of how much Turbo lag there is on a WRX STi, with a torque hole below 3500-4000rpm.

Granted this is not a very smooth, linear power delivery, but compared to the Euro Accord's K24 engine, a 'torque hole' exists all the way from low rpm to 6000rpm relative to an STi. Thereby making it smooth, but without any sort of exciting acceleration, such as compared to the STi or very smooth but more pulls more G-forces in a Commodore V8 SV8 or SS (albeit a bit unfair).


Btw, looking at the Power delivery of the EURO, the only reason why you can even feel a rush when the VTEC cam comes on at around 6000rpm is that there is a slight drop in power just below 6000rpm. This I think is deliberate tuning as it makes the car feel suddenly faster going from 6000rpm.


The B16a/b, B18C all had the same kind of tuning whereby when VTEC comes on you can feel a sudden Jekyll-and-Hyde change in seat of the pants.


Whereas the DC5-R tuning was such that you could not really feel anything coming on, as it was silky smooth - but critics were quick to point out that this dulled down the Honda character a bit.


I was thinking that perhaps Honda took note of this and changed the Euro Accord tuning back accordingly.....


I would imagine that with good Hondata tuning, this 'rush' would be smoothed out evenly even if it does make it less exciting.

[Chris_F]

well basically the i-vtec system of the euro makes it a lot smoother. I think there are three cam profiles from memory one with an economy bias then mild midrange performance then agressive top end.

I actually really like the euro's linear power delivery, it makes it a very predictable car to drive. I think in a rear wheel drive high pressure turbo id be afraid of hitting boost around a corner :p

i don think its fair to saw that the euro has a torque hole all the way to 6000rpm if thats what your implying in your post, it just has no real torque peak. for a 2.4 4 cyl its a very tractible engine at all rpm IMO