OPINIONS - d-series build up or b16a?

[michael_antoi]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma here, i can do one of two things

I can build up the ZC that I have - things i'm CONSIDERING doing are:

I/H/E

Boring out the IM

Camshafts, cam gears, valves and springs

Milling the head, thinner headgasket, boring/resleeving, pistons etc...

You catch my drift; a build up of the engine

or I could just go for a b16/b18c whatever..


I wanna do the build up because it would be fun to do and I would learn alot, but it would be easier to go for the b series engines in terms of power.


what are ur opinions?

I know alot of ppl will say forget the d and go for the b

but then I know a lot of loyal d-series owners around here too.

[SINISTR]

I recon go the D series - every Tom, Dick and Harry has a B series now!

be different, be original... build that D to be faster than a B - thats what I say! You will get alot more pleasure out of it - when the jaw of a B series owner will drop - when your D owns his B!

[VT3C]

LMFAO.. what if the B-series guy builds HIS motor ?? LMFAO !!

[SINISTR]

as I said before - the only reason why B16As in stock form are stronger than a D16A is the Vtec cam. Put mild cams into a D16 and you're making same power as a B (ive driven a D with cams)... from there it purely comes down to displacement... D is a 1.6 while you get a B16 and B18.

[ProECU]

haha, you've been told VT3C !

now go clean your room! bad boy!

[turtleEK1]

i agree with SINISTR!! i plan on and slowly doing the same thing!! why do a transplant when you;ll prolly end up building on that, when you could save the cash and build on the engine you've got!! D16A's are a under rated engine... go for it man!!!

[MoDCoN]

pwned

i say go the d

im looking at it too... dare to be different! what year is your engine?

[bennjamin]

im not going to jump on any bandwagon...but go D for old school looks and originality or if you like pain ... finding parts that is ! :)

[SINISTR]

D Series LIVES again!!!

[SINISTR]

im not going to jump on any bandwagon...but go D for old school looks and originality or if you like pain ... finding parts that is ! :)

I agree Benn :) parts aren't as common for the D as they are for the B - but thats part of the fun in a way.

Everyone can go into the shop these days and pic what ever they want for the B-series = cams, extractors, intakes, turbo kits blah blah - not a problem. But its far more rewarding to get the cams or gears, extractors, custom made intake CAI pipes.. when they are hard to get.

USofA is a good place to look at all that stuff... they LOVE the D-series!!!

LONG LIVE the D!!!

[michael_antoi]

even harder for ZC's i hear..

great.!

[mini_s2000]

go the b series!!!!

[SINISTR]

Mike - ZC (black top) and D16A8 are thesame thing... As an idea for mod parts, I was able to get a set of JG Dynamics Cam Gears for just over $100 shipped from the US. Locally - 1 - you can't get them, 2 - you can modify a set of B16A cam gears to suit but the cost is $200+.

You can find EVERYTHING - just have to look and be patient! Good things come to those who WAIT.

:rolleyes: look... in the end it will be your Decission and yours alone! you're put the question up for discussion and some us have already expressed how we see it. I was going to get a b16a myself about 1yr ago. But after driving a D16 with a set of MILD (not even worked) cams - I quickly changed my mind - this thing RIPPED and it was a stock motor just the cams installed - iMO - easily would have killed a B16A. so you have to make the decission are you a follower or are you an explorer

[Weq]

b-series for NA... man micheal, u are chopping and changeing ideas every 5 minutes.. seriously, sit back and think about ur choices. u'll save a heep of money.

[egSi]

my stock zc keeps up with b16s anyways.

i consider them pretty similar in terms or performance(i know everyone will disaggree)

go the D mate, its the underdog. cheaper to fix, easier to replace and a lil bit different.

u just bought a zc man, chuck it in and be happy. i mean how fast do u want to go?

ppl dont realise how fast most things are.

michael parts are out there, LOOK, my mate neal has found bout 5 shops that sell stage 1 to stage 4 cams for zc. hes found heaps, they are out there. i dont even look and i know where lol.

[michael_antoi]

yeh i'm just throwing around ideas before i commit to one, trying to sve money here, not waste it.

havent picked up the engine quite yet, guy keeps telling me next week next week so in the mean time i'm just exploring my options.

but thanks for the advice....

[type one]

diff in power between ZC and B16a is 30hp.... i often wonder why people bother to swap engines to the B16a form a ZC.

anyway - i agree with Trav stick to the ZC... not cos its the underdog but cos in the EG it will haul ass with a few targeted mods.

[egSi]

diff in power between ZC and B16a is 30hp.... i often wonder why people bother to swap engines to the B16a form a ZC.


that is so right LOL. the power teh zc lacks it makes up for in torque :thumbsup:

zc with GOOD mods in eg is a lil weapon :thumbsup:

[heist]

what "targeted" mods?

[MoDCoN]

where can i get info on the d engines? cos i dont know the codes, and where to start/who to trust...any ideas? (go d-series!)

[michael_antoi]

www.d-series.org

[nedgeworth]

definitely stick with the ZC man :) Parts are there, just don't expect to find them locally. For all we know we could be group buying things for us ZC guys down here :D

[JasonGilholme]

I know im only a new member and im really excited about V-TEC but i've seen plenty of D series haulin ass!! Theres a white CRX in one of my hot fours magazines. Its been totally worked, with turbo and everythin. I think it pulls about 270 kw at the wheels!!! and if that isn't fast enough for you then i don't know what is.

I like the D but im gettin a B16A cause i wanna stay NA and cause it comes in the car i want.

Hope this helps.

Jason

[cdpfxz]

i've been searching so many shops on the net to find cams, etc. for d16a8 but cant find anything! argh its frustrating me.. SINISTR where did u get urs from if u dont mind me asking?

nic

[Chi]

d and b both suck

K is the new way.

[EG5]

d and b both suck

K is the new way.

:thumbsup:

[pillow]

I had a d15 dual carby in my Civic, I've had a B16 in it now for almost 2 years and I love it! But if I were to do it all again no way in hell would I chuck a b series motor in, spend the extra cash and go with the k series like Chi and EG5 said :thumbsup:

[nedgeworth]

i've been searching so many shops on the net to find cams, etc. for d16a8 but cant find anything! argh its frustrating me.. SINISTR where did u get urs from if u dont mind me asking?

nic

http://www.crespocams.com/servlet/Search?category=HONDA+Cams

http://tighecams.com.au/

[cdpfxz]

thanks nedgeworth! and K is definitely the way i would love to go! unfortunately for me being a student doesnt help my budget!

nic

[n/a]

I was able to get a set of JG Dynamics Cam Gears for just over $100 shipped from the US.

from where?

i found "JG gears for ZC $140.00 a pair"

US price btw, and definetly not shipped!

[**Ghost**]

D - Series tends to be cheaper to build up, so if ur on a budget thats ur option...

[pillow]

I think SINISTR got his cam gears in a group buy on some other forum (dseries.org?)

[cdpfxz]

yeh he got his damn cheap! dunno bout finding one that cheap! how much would it cost to get the cams installed? anybody hav any idea?

nic

edit: by that i mean camshaft, not gears...

[KB]

I gain pleasure in building and "better-ing" any motor. Weather it be B or D, if you get your hands dirty and gain HP out of your engine, then your a winner.

I get my D16y8 Camshaft soon, and will let you all know how it goes.

[DynoDave]

The never ending debate about what engine to build D vs B vs H vs K all I can say is that some engines cost more to build and will NEVER make the power of another better designed base motor.You will make good power with a built D series, and it will cost alot to get the head to flow like the other engines and that is where the power is made in a Honda engine.The parts for a D are getting very hard to get as most of the aftermarket industry is B-H-K based but good luck with your choice and I hope it gives you pleasure in building it as that is the fun part.And to the guys that carry on like school kids he asked about building a D not K is the new way pull your heads in and offer advice not some stupid remark.
Regards Dyno Dave

[turtleEK1]

And to the guys that carry on like school kids he asked about building a D not K is the new way pull your heads in and offer advice not some stupid remark.

agreed...

[EG5]

d16a8 vs b16a.
d16a8 response better on low rev compared to b16a.
i own both and experience playing around with both engine.
If you got the extra $$ get a b series.
D series aftermarket parts are getting rare in these days , B series parts are so easy to get.

[n/a]

And to the guys that carry on like school kids he asked about building a D not K is the new way pull your heads in and offer advice not some stupid remark.
Regards Dyno Dave

i 2nd that :thumbsup:

[ALLMTR]

I wanna do the build up because it would be fun to do and I would learn alot,

If that is your goal, stick with a D

[pillow]

Since your going with the D you might want to read this:

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1420377

^^A thread about a dude in the US building a daily driver D. I wouldn't mind building up a turbo D but I love my VTEC lol.

[Steer^Gimic]

i have been put in the position of putting a d16 in my eg instead of b series, in replacement of a twin carb pile. i am pissing off the a/c, and p/s, the car is completely gutted like a fish, ill let let you know how i go. hopefully not too bad.

[blackek4]

i think b16a is better than d16a.
first, vtec
second, new tech engine
third, easy get after market parts ( if u want build it up later)

[cdpfxz]

from wat ive been reading, b seems to be good if u wana go all out later on.. but d is the way to go if u wana save a bit of money but still hav a bit of power.. roughly how much would a stock b16 put at the wheels of an eg??

nic

[pillow]

mid 80's kwatw. Depends on the dyno

[Parrott]

second, new tech engine
not true as far as i gather


hird, easy get after market parts ( if u want build it up later)
not if you know where to look ;)

[VTi_b0i]

what bout a D series VTEC motor? better turboing that or going B16A?

[cdpfxz]

ive decided to go a d16a build up.. im gona make mine faster! cos i think if i put a b16a in, i dont think id wana spend much more money on it anyway, so i might as well put it in to makin d16 faster.. and also, it takes away from the desire to make the b16 faster.. after driving a gtir and a turbo sss pulsar for a while, i dont think i will be completely satisfied by either unless i spend ridiculous amounts of money on the b16.. so why waste it!

nic

[Captiva_Blue]

Personally, I'm definitely sticking with my D-series (D16Y1). I've got a perfectly good engine sitting under my bonnet right now and with stock B-series transplant money I can get a lot more ponies out of it than a stock B will give me..

Quite a few companies are now making headers and full length exhausts for the D (hurricane & X-force to name a couple) and intakes and filters are pretty much universal. The custom stuff (boring out the intake manifold, porting/polishing etc) is gonna cost you pretty much the same for a B or a D anyway, maybe even more for a B. The only real problem in Oz is the cams, pistons and valves but thats what international postage is for :)

Besides, going fast in a straight line and buring ppl off at the lights isn't where the real fun is. It's going through the twisties with a well sorted chassis that gives the most pure joy (for me anyway).

[EG5]

Personally, I'm definitely sticking with my D-series (D16Y1). I've got a perfectly good engine sitting under my bonnet right now and with stock B-series transplant money I can get a lot more ponies out of it than a stock B will give me..

Quite a few companies are now making headers and full length exhausts for the D (hurricane & X-force to name a couple) and intakes and filters are pretty much universal. The custom stuff (boring out the intake manifold, porting/polishing etc) is gonna cost you pretty much the same for a B or a D anyway, maybe even more for a B. The only real problem in Oz is the cams, pistons and valves but thats what international postage is for :)

Besides, going fast in a straight line and buring ppl off at the lights isn't where the real fun is. It's going through the twisties with a well sorted chassis that gives the most pure joy (for me anyway).

to get alot power from a d series allmtr required alot of internal engine work.Try exospeed.com , JG engine dynamics for cams + pistons etc kit.

ANother option is turbocharge the D series. easiest way to get power.

[pillow]

to get alot power from a d series allmtr required alot of internal engine work.Try exospeed.com , JG engine dynamics for cams + pistons etc kit.

ANother option is turbocharge the D series. easiest way to get power.

^^Agree, all motor on a d equals a shitload of cash for big results (same with any honda motor really), I think you'd be better off turbocharging if you can afford to take that option (money and insurance wise).

[cdpfxz]

yeh, well ive decided to go down the same road and do up the d16a8 wit the money i wouldve spent on the conversion. im not chasing big figures, just wana drill a few commodores and hopefully pull some half decent times out of it.. turbo is always the best power option obviously, but ive had too many troubles wit turbos, hence the change to a civic..

nic

[Snoop_gee]

I know im only a new member and im really excited about V-TEC but i've seen plenty of D series haulin ass!! Theres a white CRX in one of my hot fours magazines. Its been totally worked, with turbo and everythin. I think it pulls about 270 kw at the wheels!!! and if that isn't fast enough for you then i don't know what is.
Jason
haha your talking about andy's CRX posts a respectable 11.73 quatermile time.
http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/d/86959-1/aas.jpg
*bennjamin edit DONT hijack threads mate. Warned ;)

As i found out by Andy's brother Jonston who gave me a ride in his blue booster on friday.
http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/d/84912-1/aah.jpg

[ginganggooly]

i saw a worked d series in the flesh about a month ago, from what i can remember it had some wiseco forged pistons, cams and a microtech. I'm unsure of what the head had done to it, but it was making about 30kw more at the wheels than a stock d-series would, so i'm guessing there was a fair bit of work done to it...
The car ended up with around 85kw at the wheels, which isn't all that much considering the effort that had gone into it... a stock b16a would make about that much, and it would probably cost less.
So unless you're planning on going FI, maybe it'd be a goot time to look at your other options ;)

[bennjamin]

yup for the money spent NA the lil ZC isnt going to pull much numbers at all. Either turbo it - or spend the cash on response/handling mods :) Lightweight flywheel , new HD clutch and reduce the most logical weight you can and make that lil car feel nice and fast atleast in the corners . Dotn forget decent suspension/swaybars/tyres/wheels !

[ginganggooly]

fwiw, it is a v.cool little build up (IMO as always). sounded great and the motor had that character that you can only get with a built NA motor. it's just that the bang for buck isn't quite there.

[cdpfxz]

its hard reading on these forums, cos u get ppl jumping on saying 'a d-series wit only mild mods will smash a b16' and then the next ppl that come on go on bout how they got nothin and its not worth trying to get performance out of them... hmm....

nic

[bennjamin]

its hard reading on these forums, cos u get ppl jumping on saying 'a d-series wit only mild mods will smash a b16' and then the next ppl that come on go on bout how they got nothin and its not worth trying to get performance out of them... hmm....

nic

its because of people have opinons based on either experience or what they have read etc. So , take everything you read here and on the internet in general , with a grain of salt :cool:

BTW its the driver NOT the car - i have "smashed" a few b16a's with my stock d16a8. Who cares tho :rolleyes:? This thread is about bang for buck mods ! And frankly our old engine isnt the winner.

[rexi3]

I used to drive a ZC crx and they are pretty good engines very good at low end.

Now i have an SiR CRX and im finding it a more fuller engine.. its powerful all the way through the range. and that little bit more at vtec.. I myself havent decided which way to go N.A or FI.. I am just working on handling atm.. suspension (coilovers), front n rear strut bars, lower front n rear tie bars.. and buying sway bars eventually.. did someone say go-kart handling...

In the end its the experience you are after that will determine which way you go..

[ginganggooly]

its hard reading on these forums, cos u get ppl jumping on saying 'a d-series wit only mild mods will smash a b16' and then the next ppl that come on go on bout how they got nothin and its not worth trying to get performance out of them... hmm....

nic

welcome to the 'net ;)

[Menzy]

well ive got a d series engin ... and most ppl on here would encourage you to "engin swap" i know i would rather work on what i have ... cause its more fun, u learn from it and also you can see what you achive too... so why not encourage people to work on their engins and leave the transplants as a choice :)

[cdpfxz]

haha yeh ive just noticed opinions seem to be so much diffreent wen it comes to n/a engines.. wen its turbo generally most things ppl say are fairly the same, but i guess cos turbo mods are more obvious in power... i guess it depends wat ur aiming for.. i mean im just aiming to run a time in the 14 sec bracket.. which i would/should get wit a b16a.. however i should be able to do that in a d16a too though.. maybe.. so thats why i think i might just be better doin that up cos thats all im aiming for..

nic

[Mateoo]

after building a NA D16a8....

Go b series more hp for your dollar
more avaliability of parts therefore cheaper
and if u can afford it go bigger displacement eg 1.8l+
plus its vtek yo!

[cdpfxz]

yeh im now re-deciding wat im gonna do! cars are a pain in the ass.. still weighing up my options, if i can get a cheap enough b16 i think im gona do that now.. just see wat happens..

nic