Spoon caliper HELP~

[.::F[L]Y::.]

just got a question in regards to the spoon monoblocks for those who have it on their cars...

Me and a friend have just finished installing the spoon calipers onto my S2K and i have noticed a drastic change in pedal feel. It actually feels much softer than the stock setup!?! is this suppose to be the way it is? As i was under the impression that the spoon calipers would actually make the pedal much stiffer and concerned that there could be a problem. I have bleed the brakes accordingly and the brakes bite quite good just that the pedal feel is much softer. So the question is, is this how its suppose to feel or otherwise??

[s2king]

The pedal feel is more than likely got to do with the brake master cylinder. On the s2k's its very typical of that soft spoungy feel, just get a cusco brake master cylinder and it will cure that problem right away. Should cost about $150.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

150 for a master cylinder??? Are you sure man?

[s2king]

Give or take $50
Its just an aproximate.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

il look into it...

but are u refferring to the brake stopper which goes onto the master cylinder or the whole unit itself? cus i thought a master cylinder would cost shitloads..

[s2king]

Yeah the brake stoper, it just stops the cylinder from moving forward so much under heavy braking. It ataches to the right suspension chassis thing.

[MKI4EVA]

brake stopper would have fark'n jack didly to do with your pedal feel, unless your suggesting that when he presses on the pedal the firewalls give way around about +5mm flex.

Fly (sorry bro forgot your name) because you've gone from a single piston to a assume a 4 piston caliper your standard brake booster is not big enough to apply enough pressure to the 4pot to give you what was a stiff braking feel.

I have no idea what aftermarket products you can buy to fix this but braided lines would be a start.

What was the sequence in bleeding the capilers in the instructions?

Did you go from furthest rear brake first? then work towards the front spoon brakes?

[.::F[L]Y::.]

i just did the 2 fronts....This was suggested by my mechanics as we clamped the cables so it wouldnt leak and fluid. I was recommended to get an upgraded master cylinder BUT that is the last option as i have seen wilwood units go well over 1k. :(

btw my name is John man :wave:

[hondaboy]

you would only really experience a spongey brake feel when u have boiled ur fluid right?
mine has been boiled since last time i did a track day and it feels like shit
try brake stopper and braided lines too

[.::F[L]Y::.]

boiled? no i put in new fluid...i will try to bleed the brakes again so see if there is any difference *sigh*

[s2king]

brake stopper would have fark'n jack didly to do with your pedal feel, unless your suggesting that when he presses on the pedal the firewalls give way around about +5mm flex.

Fly (sorry bro forgot your name) because you've gone from a single piston to a assume a 4 piston caliper your standard brake booster is not big enough to apply enough pressure to the 4pot to give you what was a stiff braking feel.

I have no idea what aftermarket products you can buy to fix this but braided lines would be a start.

What was the sequence in bleeding the capilers in the instructions?

Did you go from furthest rear brake first? then work towards the front spoon brakes?

As a matter of fact brake stoper does exactly that job, which is to give you that firm brake feel. You should try it yourself first and then put a post up. If I say that it will help someone from having (in this case) brake feel, then ive actualy tryed it and know for a fact.

Fly: you would rather exhaust the cheapest solutions first, get the brake stoper, trust me it will solve your brake feel problem. Thats all that the brake stoper does, it stops the brake cylinder from moving forward under hard braking, which causes that spoungeness.

[ITRBoI]

get the brake aster cylinder stopper JOHN!!!! it should solve the problem!!!!

[.::F[L]Y::.]

hehehe was waiting for you to post 'Joe' . Was urs like that when u first installed ur calipers??

thanks for your help fellas....will be looking into it.

[MKI4EVA]

As a matter of fact brake stoper does exactly that job, which is to give you that firm brake feel. You should try it yourself first and then put a post up. If I say that it will help someone from having (in this case) brake feel, then ive actualy tryed it and know for a fact.

Fly: you would rather exhaust the cheapest solutions first, get the brake stoper, trust me it will solve your brake feel problem. Thats all that the brake stoper does, it stops the brake cylinder from moving forward under hard braking, which causes that spoungeness.

did you have spongy brake feel as well before you put on the brake stoper?

or did you put it on because you tracked your car heaps and got bad brake feel?

[s2king]

did you have spongy brake feel as well before you put on the brake stoper?

or did you put it on because you tracked your car heaps and got bad brake feel?

All S2000 have that spoungy brake feel when you brake hard, its just a fact, even if you have standard brakes. My car has only done 5000klm its a 2005 model so no I havnt tracked it, and never will.
And I know the difference because ive put one on, and makes a huge difference in brake feel, not nessasaraly brake performance, just the spounginess is almost gone. about a 60% improvement.

[Perry]

fly's s2k doesnt feel spoungy b4 the brake i grade, im 100% sure, but after the install the feel was diff and spoungy

[s2king]

Hey Fly, did you upgrade your brake lines? if you baught the spoon calipers, they should have come with brake lines I think.

[MKI4EVA]

All S2000 have that spoungy brake feel when you brake hard, its just a fact, even if you have standard brakes. My car has only done 5000klm its a 2005 model so no I havnt tracked it, and never will.
And I know the difference because ive put one on, and makes a huge difference in brake feel, not nessasaraly brake performance, just the spounginess is almost gone. about a 60% improvement.

did you do anything else before you added the brake brace to try and minimise the spoogyness?

I'm just wondering.

I'm really suprised a performance car like a s2k has a down side like that.

[fatboyz39]

Hey Fly, did you upgrade your brake lines? if you baught the spoon calipers, they should have come with brake lines I think.

not that i know of...but yea the stock s2k setup is quite good on the track imo. But i just wanted something abit better. Im now probably gona reflush the brake fluid and use motul brake fluid instead of oem....i think that could be the cause of this problem....

[ITRBoI]

Y::.']hehehe was waiting for you to post 'Joe' . Was urs like that when u first installed ur calipers??

thanks for your help fellas....will be looking into it.

mine was the same as yours a bit soft and spongy like you said but since the brake cylinder stopper comes in....oh baby....foot down and it stops no question ask, but what i notice after putting that in, ABS tends to go in earlier as well....but its all good once you get used to your braking :D

[.::F[L]Y::.]

what fluid did u use though? oem honda or aftermarket...i checked on s2ki and those who have it said that motul will improve the feel?

[ITRBoI]

i used the castrol one.....but i heard the s2000 its best to use the one from honda....well at least that is what my mech recommands anyway

[VTECACCORD]

i have the spoon brakes on my itr, and they are not spongy at all. I have a suspision your brakes have not been bled properly, so you may have air in the system.

Trying bleeding them again and see how that feels

[MKI4EVA]

i have the spoon brakes on my itr, and they are not spongy at all. I have a suspision your brakes have not been bled properly, so you may have air in the system.

Trying bleeding them again and see how that feels


True, theres no way you can change such a large part to the system such as front calipers and not bleed it from rear to front.

Cost is small and worth a try.

For you guys who have the brake stopper any chance you can post up a pic of it? I'm amazed it gives "about a 60% improvement". Even if this is a over estimation it's still a huge improvement if it were even 30%.

If it works that well i'll blardy make one for my car :D .

Do you guys run proportioning valves from the master brake cylinder for brake bias adjustment??

[VTECACCORD]

For you guys who have the brake stopper any chance you can post up a pic of it? I'm amazed it gives "about a 60% improvement". Even if this is a over estimation it's still a huge improvement if it were even 30%.

If it works that well i'll blardy make one for my car :D .


i have the brake stopper also, or brace strut as its called.

If you have a dc2r i wouldn't get one, it creates more noise than its worth. TBH unless ur hard braking all the time you wont feel shit, and if anyone says they do then there lieing to you.

Same goes for spoon brakes, you wont feel shit under normal driving conditions, but on the track you will notice they perform a lot better, spoon brakes are designed to be lighter weight, so they give you better response and handling at the wheels, and perform better on the track, on the street there just for bling, thats it really.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

i have the brake stopper also, or brace strut as its called.

If you have a dc2r i wouldn't get one, it creates more noise than its worth. TBH unless ur hard braking all the time you wont feel shit, and if anyone says they do then there lieing to you.

Same goes for spoon brakes, you wont feel shit under normal driving conditions, but on the track you will notice they perform a lot better, spoon brakes are designed to be lighter weight, so they give you better response and handling at the wheels, and perform better on the track, on the street there just for bling, thats it really.

yeh thats tru...0n the streets its jus bling. But i intend to take my car to track, having taken it to track with the stock brake setup im now keen to test out my new spoon calipers along with the slotted rotas. :)

[MKI4EVA]

i have the brake stopper also, or brace strut as its called.

If you have a dc2r i wouldn't get one, it creates more noise than its worth. TBH unless ur hard braking all the time you wont feel shit, and if anyone says they do then there lieing to you.

Same goes for spoon brakes, you wont feel shit under normal driving conditions, but on the track you will notice they perform a lot better, spoon brakes are designed to be lighter weight, so they give you better response and handling at the wheels, and perform better on the track, on the street there just for bling, thats it really.

Uken oath brather, thank god someone that has the goods and gives an honest opinion plus is able to differentiate from placebo and real world outcomes. Anyhow I'm done with making this point, we all like bling and moding our cars.

I'm thinking honda wouldn't make crappy designed stock mechanical parts for their sport cars.

Anyhow, tell us how it turns out John and hope it gets better. I hate crappy brakes.

Heres some pics of my brakes. Made by wilwood but rebranded to a US name RPI. 4 Pot.

I've just rebuilt the whole knuckle and hub replacing all the bearings as well. It'll be hell frozen over when it's on the car but hopefully end of this year.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/MKI4EVA/brakes.jpghttp://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/MKI4EVA/977f3019.jpg

[fatboyz39]

the spongy feeling is cause of the bigger piston on the spoon calipers. Therefore resulting in spongy pedal, cause more fuild is needed to move the pistons.

Upgrade the master cylinder and see if it helps.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

hey fellas,

spent the arvo jacking up the car and bleeding the brakes PROPERLY, from the rear to fronts. All i can say is that the spoon brakes work very well, took the car out for a fang and tested its braking power from speeds at 60km and 100km and for me it cuts those speeds down real good. Though as mentioned ABS kicks in earlier.

thanks for all the help guys :)

[MKI4EVA]

Y::.']hey fellas,

spent the arvo jacking up the car and bleeding the brakes PROPERLY, from the rear to fronts. All i can say is that the spoon brakes work very well, took the car out for a fang and tested its braking power from speeds at 60km and 100km and for me it cuts those speeds down real good. Though as mentioned ABS kicks in earlier.

thanks for all the help guys :)

sweet!

% improvement would you guesstimate?

[.::F[L]Y::.]

hard to say...as i havnt tracked it as yet.

but from the test drive id say abt 20-30% but BLING factor is 100% LOL

[ITRBoI]

glad you like your spoon callipers...you should!!!! cause you got a ral bargin....bitch!!!! was about to buy it off him, but feel sorry for you so i told him to give it to you hehaehahe =P

[MKI4EVA]

Y::.']hard to say...as i havnt tracked it as yet.

but from the test drive id say abt 20-30% but BLING factor is 100% LOL

kool.......

have you seen the AMG calipers ?

at long as our forearms.....hehe pretty awesome.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

kool.......

have you seen the AMG calipers ?

at long as our forearms.....hehe pretty awesome.

yep, remember seeing them on an AMG at wakefield....damn it has a sexy brake setup.

[ATSEK4]

i thought the Brake master cylinder stopper should only work without the ABS...

[MKI4EVA]

i thought the Brake master cylinder stopper should only work without the ABS...

two totally unrelated things dude.

[ATSEK4]

two totally unrelated things dude.

Read the japanese on the product itself..

[.::F[L]Y::.]

glad you like your spoon callipers...you should!!!! cause you got a ral bargin....bitch!!!! was about to buy it off him, but feel sorry for you so i told him to give it to you hehaehahe =P

heheheheh u already got some sexi calipers.

[MKI4EVA]

Read the japanese on the product itself..

time for me to step back...........too much ozhonda for me lately.

[NSX88X]

congrats fly!
AMG E55 has 8 piston 380mm brakes.

Can't wait to show you my brake setup :)

[VTECACCORD]

time for me to step back...........too much ozhonda for me lately.


After reading through this post to catch up on whats going on, I have to the conclusion that half the posts made here are bullshit, people are just talking out of there asses, not one logical explanation was made.

It seems that no one thought of the most logical explanation which was air in the brake lines.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

the boys over at honda-tech say that to get the right 'feel' for these calipers would be to bleed to brakes at least 4 times to completely rid the system of air. Which VTECACCORD has been saying.

[MKI4EVA]

After reading through this post to catch up on whats going on, I have to the conclusion that half the posts made here are bullshit, people are just talking out of there asses, not one logical explanation was made.

It seems that no one thought of the most logical explanation which was air in the brake lines.

I know ha, how annoying can it get when your trying to explain things to some ppl who probably have never even changed pads on their cars before.

No insult intended, I'm open minded.

[aozora]

I know ha, how annoying can it get when your trying to explain things to some ppl who probably have never even changed pads on their cars before.

No insult intended, I'm open minded.

Hahah... it's kinda funny but when they're not open to suggestions/input it just becomes sad.... :(

If you think about it, the brake master cylinder is a tube with your "pedal" pushing the fluid through. The thinner the tube, the less feel you get through the pedal because you have to depress it further in order to get more fluid through to the calipers. The thicker the tube, the more sensitive the brake master becomes when you press the pedal as your pushing a greater "initial" volume through (I don't know how to explain it any better). For example I believe the sizes are the piston/tube diameter of the brake master? Ie. 14/16", 15/16", 1", 1 1/16" etc (Atleast for Nissans :p)... but I'm not sure on that diameter thing, could be something else like radius *shrug*?

When you install larger calipers, namely 4 pots etc over stock say.... 2 pots. Because of the extra pistons, more brake fluid is needed... thus more volume thus you need to increase the size of the brake master in order to retain the stock pedal feel... I hope that explanation makes sense.

The Cusco BMC stopper does nothing to aid this, it's purpose is to reduce firewall flex... which is where your brake master cylinder/booster is mounted. As with some cars, the firewall bends when you press on the pedal because of the force put onto it. The BMC stopper simply holds against the pedal force so the feel is more direct to the brake master under firewall flex...

You can buy all the add on crap you want, but in the end, it's not going to fix the issue if you don't know what's going on in the first place...
Back on topic, if you still feel the brake pedal feel isn't to your liking, ie. too soft after PROPER brake bleeding and checks to see there are no leaks or your current brake master doesn't need a rebuild... then you need a larger brake master and vice versa. Good luck :)

[MKI4EVA]

The Cusco BMC stopper does nothing to aid this, it's purpose is to reduce firewall flex... which is where your brake master cylinder/booster is mounted. As with some cars, the firewall bends when you press on the pedal because of the force put onto it. The BMC stopper simply holds against the pedal force so the feel is more direct to the brake master under firewall flex...


yup.

[R123]

hey John, sorri if this is a bit out of the topic,

i actually want to ask u how much u get ur Spoon Calipers for? hehehe
cos i always wanted to get a pair of them too...

thankz

[Couped Up]

hehehe if i told you the price u wouldnt belive me man. pm me and il tell ya :)

*this is fly btw just using this account hehe

[MKI4EVA]

hehehe if i told you the price u wouldnt belive me man. pm me and il tell ya :)

*this is fly btw just using this account hehe



1K.........hahhahaha.

I got my kit for 1K shipped with disc, pads, lines and fluids.

[R123]

r u serious? 2 Spoon Monoblock caplipers plus the LOT cost ya ONE K only??
is it NEW but??
wooo where u get it from?

[MKI4EVA]

dude i have willwood.......go back a few pages........

John has Spoon.