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View Full Version : would running a turbo on stock internals safe?



integrity
09-11-2005, 06:05 PM
hi all ive been told running on stock internals including injectors and fuel pump is ok for everyday use on 7 psi
what do you guys think?

ProECU
09-11-2005, 06:09 PM
"they" are correct.

7psi no problems, i'd even go to 10psi.

You will need new injectors ONLY.
Fuel Pump & Reg not required.

heist
09-11-2005, 06:24 PM
sorry for the hijack, but what injectors would you suggest that bolt straight into a d16a8?

integrity
09-11-2005, 06:50 PM
but im talking standard injectors standard everything
like just bolting on the turbo , extractors , front mount intercooler , bov and wastegate thats it

would it wear the internals?

ProECU
09-11-2005, 10:15 PM
but im talking standard injectors standard everything
like just bolting on the turbo , extractors , front mount intercooler , bov and wastegate thats it

would it wear the internals?

If you run any amount of boost, with stock injectors (beats the shit out of me why anyone would do this) , expect it to go BANG !

vti-2
09-11-2005, 10:24 PM
hi all ive been told running on stock internals including injectors and fuel pump is ok for everyday use on 7 psi
what do you guys think?

Standard Honda injectors are not designed to run turbo setups. As ProECU said, the fuel pump will cope but injectors must be upgraded. Take a look at RC, lots of turbo Honda's run RC injectors.

http://www.rceng.com/

GSI-PSI
10-11-2005, 12:59 AM
or you could run an extra injector

cheech
10-11-2005, 06:35 AM
how about trying some h22a injectors

integrity
10-11-2005, 07:07 AM
what would be the best to run on a gsi ?

saxman
10-11-2005, 01:30 PM
or you could run an extra injector
which would be a whole lot more work for a lot less benefit...



how about trying some h22a injectors
too small... 320cc isn't enough... I wouldn't go any smaller than 450's

heist
10-11-2005, 01:46 PM
what injectors that are 450's are on cars in australia? that bolt into the d16a8?

tinkerbell
10-11-2005, 02:23 PM
what injectors that are 450's are on cars in australia? that bolt into the d16a8?

um, i think Mitsu VR4 ones are around that cc/min, but not sure if they bolt in?

superR
10-11-2005, 09:33 PM
just go on ebay and look up RC injectors ..... you could probably pick up a brand new set for about $400..... i bought my 550cc RC's for $450 new

saxman
11-11-2005, 11:17 AM
tunertoys.com in the states sells wonderful injectors that drop right in perfectly for half the price of the RC's

I've tuned several cars with them and never had any problem.

integrity
11-11-2005, 12:39 PM
how much is labour for these rc injectors to be installed in?

tinkerbell
11-11-2005, 12:40 PM
factor in cost of new o-rings if they do not come with injectors,

labour woudl be about 30 mins to change injectors, +30 mins if they have to change the harness plugs...

saxman
11-11-2005, 12:57 PM
how much is labour for these rc injectors to be installed in?
I would be more concered about the labor for tuning the ecu for them... changing the injectors, if you've purchased decent ones, is only a 5-10 minute job

ProECU
11-11-2005, 01:05 PM
So is rescaling / fine tuning to compensate within the ECU.

yourfather
12-11-2005, 05:07 AM
GReddy turbo kits come with 310cc injectors... :(

saxman
12-11-2005, 09:59 AM
So is rescaling / fine tuning to compensate within the ECU.
I know it's a quick job, but honestly, who is going to install injectors and only have the ecu rescaled for the injectors and call it a day? Usually the injectors are going in as part of a bigger plan which requires more than just scaling the stock fuel map and going.

ProECU
12-11-2005, 11:15 AM
agreed.

Lukezen27
12-11-2005, 04:09 PM
GReddy turbo kits come with 310cc injectors... :(

:(

All Greddy kits or just your engine kit?

saxman
12-11-2005, 05:10 PM
:(

All Greddy kits or just your engine kit?
the greddy kits offer very poor engine management... as do most kits


I'd highly recommend if you're going to run one to ditch the fuel management they come with for a real one

Lukezen27
12-11-2005, 05:29 PM
the greddy kits offer very poor engine management... as do most kits


I'd highly recommend if you're going to run one to ditch the fuel management they come with for a real one

I was going to sell the e-managment anyway went I get my kit and go Hondata but I thought they came 440cc Inj

130cc WTF good for 7 PSI or not ?

Hondas stocks are 280cc right?

saxman
12-11-2005, 06:18 PM
stocks are 240's if memory serves.

I wouldn't put anything smaller than 440's on a turbo honda personally

yourfather
13-11-2005, 02:54 AM
the greddy kits offer very poor engine management... as do most kits


I'd highly recommend if you're going to run one to ditch the fuel management they come with for a real one


Yeah I totally agree with that...

Im thinkin about when I do eventually turbo my car, to run Trust turbo and intercooler, Tial wastegate, Full-Race manifold, and either PRO-ECU or hondata. And prolly a custom 2.5" exhaust with a universal 2.5" muffler, a'pexi or fujitsubo, fujis sound really good..., 550 cc injectors, and I dunno, some kind of boost controller... havent thought about that much

smoknhothonda
13-11-2005, 12:43 PM
agreed.

I Wonder if Saxman is ProECU's other login name for ozhonda.....

Cant say I ever remember seeing ProECU agree with someone before!!!! :p

ProECU
13-11-2005, 01:28 PM
there's a first time for everything right ? :D

integrity
19-11-2005, 12:33 PM
no thats ok ive spoke with a few tuners worldwide
they say its ok to push the car round bout 7 psi max without changing injectors or computer all you have to do is force more fuel through the injectors(h22 preludes do it through standard injectors and run fine and they are 2.2l Ltr) to do that get a bigger fuel pump and a regulator to keep the injection stable.
if you push it more then 7 psi then injectors and rails are needed as well as a bigger wastegate which is about 50mm.
basically its safe if your after a quicker car but if you want better ET and Kw then thats when internals will have to be added in

saxman
19-11-2005, 01:00 PM
no thats ok ive spoke with a few tuners worldwide
they say its ok to push the car round bout 7 psi max without changing injectors or computer all you have to do is force more fuel through the injectors(h22 preludes do it through standard injectors and run fine and they are 2.2l Ltr) to do that get a bigger fuel pump and a regulator to keep the injection stable.
if you push it more then 7 psi then injectors and rails are needed as well as a bigger wastegate which is about 50mm.
basically its safe if your after a quicker car but if you want better ET and Kw then thats when internals will have to be added in
whomever told you that doesn't have the SLIGHTEST clue what they're talking about

preludes use larger injectors, not higher fuel pressure. so that's a moot point. No real tuner is going to measure what can be done in a max psi, as it varies so much with set up.
To properly fuel for most normal sized turbos, you would need about 90 psi of fuel pressure on top of stock fuel pressure to squeeze enough fuel out to properly support that air flow. About 130 psi for a system designed for 40ish... not good. Also, you have no timing control. Running stock timing at 7 psi is a VERY BAD idea.

Also, a 50mm wastegate for 7 psi? Please. Also, the stock fuel rail will support at least 400whp... you certainly don't need to upgrade it for more than 7 psi.


whomever told you all that doesn't know his head from his ass. No one who knows the first thing about tuning would ever recommend just bumping fuel pressure up.

ProECU
19-11-2005, 01:03 PM
no thats ok ive spoke with a few tuners worldwide
they say its ok to push the car round bout 7 psi max without changing injectors or computer all you have to do is force more fuel through the injectors(h22 preludes do it through standard injectors and run fine and they are 2.2l Ltr) to do that get a bigger fuel pump and a regulator to keep the injection stable.

This might work. I wouldn't do it this way personally, the cost of a regulator + pump + install would more than likely cost more than replacement injectors.

Your call, let us know how it works for you.

saxman
19-11-2005, 01:07 PM
This might work. I wouldn't do it this way personally, the cost of a regulator + pump + install would more than likely cost more than replacement injectors.

Your call, let us know how it works for you.
can you imagine how much smoke you would billow out the back of the car running 130psi of fuel pressure at idle/vac/low boost?

well, I take that back... you probably wouldn't even be able to start the car

ProECU
19-11-2005, 02:37 PM
yeah, i'm assuming there's some kind of injector pulse width adjustment in the mix somewhere.
In any event, its not my preferred method.

mr cyanide
19-11-2005, 02:45 PM
If you run any amount of boost, with stock injectors (beats the shit out of me why anyone would do this) , expect it to go BANG !

i'm running a low boost setup on my crx with stock injectors and nothing has gone bang yet, they just have a hard time keeping up thats all.

ProECU
19-11-2005, 02:51 PM
just make sure the a/f is safe, without the injector duty maxing out.
Take it to a dyno to get this measured for peace of mind.

saxman
19-11-2005, 03:12 PM
i'm running a low boost setup on my crx with stock injectors and nothing has gone bang yet, they just have a hard time keeping up thats all.
don't worry, give it time... it'll go bang soon enough


it's not possible to run more than a couple psi without exceeding the injector duty cycle on stock injectors at stock fuel pressure

not that anyone running stock fuel injectors is very likely to have anything to control them with anyway.

yourfather
19-11-2005, 06:31 PM
:(

All Greddy kits or just your engine kit?

just the one on turbokits.com for the B18C

Lukezen27
19-11-2005, 06:48 PM
just the one on turbokits.com for the B18C

So dose anyone know what injectors the Greddy kits Straight for Greddy?

I mean dosen't turbokits.com just pass on the kits or do they change em round or something?

saxman
19-11-2005, 07:12 PM
So dose anyone know what injectors the Greddy kits Straight for Greddy?

I mean dosen't turbokits.com just pass on the kits or do they change em round or something?
310cc are what greddy includes from the factory in their d16y8, b16, and b18 kits

Lukezen27
19-11-2005, 07:30 PM
310cc are what greddy includes from the factory in their d16y8, b16, and b18 kits

lol that only kit info I'm after is the only one you didn't mention :p

D16Y1? same size?

yourfather
19-11-2005, 07:57 PM
some of the kits have 440cc injectors, but they're mainly for the later model cars... for like the civic si and the DC5. The prelude one comes with 470ccs

Honestly, cuz im looking at turboing my integra, I think if you source your stuff from around the place, you can still build one for a bit cheaper and have the larger injectors...

I suppose you just gotta keep looking around.

Lukezen27
19-11-2005, 08:05 PM
some of the kits have 440cc injectors, but they're mainly for the later model cars... for like the civic si and the DC5. The prelude one comes with 470ccs

Honestly, cuz im looking at turboing my integra, I think if you source your stuff from around the place, you can still build one for a bit cheaper and have the larger injectors...

I suppose you just gotta keep looking around.

Your motor is bigger than mine so I think you would have to go 440cc but for low boost on 1.6L D16Y1 me thinks 3100cc many be OK

Maybe 8 PSI or 9 PSI

yourfather
19-11-2005, 08:15 PM
im going to go for 550cc.. probably because at some stage I might look into rebuilding with forgies.... so I can up the boost no problems

saxman
19-11-2005, 08:25 PM
Your motor is bigger than mine so I think you would have to go 440cc but for low boost on 1.6L D16Y1 me thinks 3100cc many be OK

Maybe 8 PSI or 9 PSI
you do realize that the b18's and the d16's use the same size injectors stock, with only the fuel pressure being different. There is no good reason to run anything smaller than a 440cc injector, even on a low boost set up. 310's are too small.

For reference sake, I just made a quick basemap on uberdata for a d16z6(don't get the d16y1 out here, so I don't know how comparable it is). With 310cc injectors, you're going to hit max duty cycle at redline at about 4 psi.

saxman
19-11-2005, 08:28 PM
lol that only kit info I'm after is the only one you didn't mention :p

D16Y1? same size?
On greddy's site, I only saw a few kits... the d16z6 one, which comes with an fmu, the d16y8, b16a, b18b, and b18c kits which all come with the 310cc injectors.


I would run the d16y8 kit personally. It's basically the same as the d16z6 kit only comes with the injectors and the 16g turbo instead of the 14b which is preferable.


Either way, I'd ditch the 310cc injectors and the emanage for some 440s and some real fuel management.

yourfather
19-11-2005, 08:32 PM
saxman, seeing as you know heaps about this stuff, can you tell me what approx rev (with a manifold you recommend) a TD04 or TD05 would start boosting at.

And would 550cc injectors max out at all on that kind of setup on a B18C

saxman
19-11-2005, 09:04 PM
saxman, seeing as you know heaps about this stuff, can you tell me what approx rev (with a manifold you recommend) a TD04 or TD05 would start boosting at.

And would 550cc injectors max out at all on that kind of setup on a B18C
using the small 14b turbo that comes in the greddy d16z6 kit with their manifold, I was seeing full boost at about 2800 rpm


with a good equal length manifold, you should see boost a little sooner


I really wouldn't worry too much about needing larger than 550cc injectors until around 350whp at least

yourfather
20-11-2005, 02:21 AM
Well, the thing is, I dont wanna run around on the highways boosting all the time. I was thinking a larger unit rated to higher whp, but not running as much boost until i need a rebuild, cuz im not going to do that until I really have to...

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 08:01 AM
On greddy's site, I only saw a few kits... the d16z6 one, which comes with an fmu, the d16y8, b16a, b18b, and b18c kits which all come with the 310cc injectors.


I would run the d16y8 kit personally. It's basically the same as the d16z6 kit only comes with the injectors and the 16g turbo instead of the 14b which is preferable.


Either way, I'd ditch the 310cc injectors and the emanage for some 440s and some real fuel management.

Hay saxman

Yea I was going Hondata or PRO-ECU and selling e-crap on ebat :p to offset the cost

I also so was gong 440cc but may not be able to afford em for a wile so I'll have to run 3100CC for a little wile

Also the price diff between the two kits D16Z6 & D16Y8 is about $500 US

So I'm sure if I when the D16Z6 and saved $500 US I could buy a better turbo that comes with the D16Y8 kit for $500 US?

Is that only only diff between tht two kits?

Thx Heaps Luke

2MPRSS
20-11-2005, 08:08 AM
speak to ONLINE performance bro with the hondas they built i only trust them they are doing my turbo conversion next week sumtime,my mate turbocharged his stock everything b16a with t28 andhis fukd up his head already with only 6psi of boost

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 08:21 AM
speak to ONLINE performance bro with the hondas they built i only trust them they are doing my turbo conversion next week sumtime,my mate turbocharged his stock everything b16a with t28 andhis fukd up his head already with only 6psi of boost

Yellow Civic Omar?

Hm f**ked up the head with only 6psi of boost?

More than likely there was a problem there before he boosted or was not tuned properly

Even the top tunners (you know who I'm talking about) tell me my D16Y1 should be able to take 9 PSI on stock inters

I would think that a b16a would be even stronger?

2MPRSS
20-11-2005, 08:43 AM
i fogot to mention he does give it a fair bit it it was tuned with mmicrotech computer,his preety shitty now that he didnt do no internal work

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 08:55 AM
i fogot to mention he does give it a fair bit it it was tuned with mmicrotech computer,his preety shitty now that he didnt do no internal work

But at 6 PSI the shoulde't have to do anyway!!!

How much is a far bit?

Who tuned it?

saxman
20-11-2005, 01:11 PM
Hay saxman

Yea I was going Hondata or PRO-ECU and selling e-crap on ebat :p to offset the cost

I also so was gong 440cc but may not be able to afford em for a wile so I'll have to run 3100CC for a little wile

Also the price diff between the two kits D16Z6 & D16Y8 is about $500 US

So I'm sure if I when the D16Z6 and saved $500 US I could buy a better turbo that comes with the D16Y8 kit for $500 US?

Is that only only diff between tht two kits?

Thx Heaps Luke
the main difference is the in the manifold and the turbo. the y8 kit positions the turbo slightly different for more clearance(as it's a larger turbo). It is possible to use the larger turbo on the z6 manifold, but it requires some trimming of some of the webbing on the block. The other main issue is that the greddy turbos aren't your typical 14b/16g's in that the flanges are slightly different, and finding another turbo that will bolt up without modification isn't very easy. I don't believe you can purchase just the turbo from the kits seperate either.


And yourfather... if you don't want to boost ont he highway, be light with the throttle. Even with the greddy 14b turbo on my car, I didn't have any trouble staying out of boost if I wanted to(turbo was very small and had very little lag).


And 2mprss... a bad tune, even at 6 psi, can very easily damage the head. Without any more info other than "he damaged the head" it's hard to even start to pretend that anyone has any idea what happened, but with a proper tune,their is absolutely no reason that 6 psi on a t28 would cause any damage.


And lukezen... it is impossible for someone to say how much boost a certain engine can take. It is FAR more reasonable to say how much hp it can take. An engine may be able to take 12 psi on a small turbo just fine, but 8 psi out of a much larger turbo would be more than it could handle.

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 02:15 PM
the main difference is the in the manifold and the turbo. the y8 kit positions the turbo slightly different for more clearance(as it's a larger turbo). It is possible to use the larger turbo on the z6 manifold, but it requires some trimming of some of the webbing on the block. The other main issue is that the greddy turbos aren't your typical 14b/16g's in that the flanges are slightly different, and finding another turbo that will bolt up without modification isn't very easy. I don't believe you can purchase just the turbo from the kits seperate either.


And lukezen... it is impossible for someone to say how much boost a certain engine can take. It is FAR more reasonable to say how much hp it can take. An engine may be able to take 12 psi on a small turbo just fine, but 8 psi out of a much larger turbo would be more than it could handle.


Thx for the into :thumbsup: I've been learning so much since I've decided to boost :)

So the extra $500 is Justified IYO? better manifold, bigger Turbo and far easier to upgrade the turbo down the track coze of flange size/position :thumbsup:

As for how much certain engine can take, 9 PSI is on my just Rebuilt D16Y1/D16Z6 and using a D16Y1/D16Z6 Greddy Kit and its stock turbo

The engine was rebuilt only using stock inters but anything worn was replaced and I've be running her in using this method
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Will the D16Y8 Greddy kit fit my D16Z6 without any modding needed?

Bit more space under the EG than the EK I would think?

I'm not aiming to break any records just a fun day driver with bit of a bit :D

Cheer's Luke

saxman
20-11-2005, 03:12 PM
Thx for the into :thumbsup: I've been learning so much since I've decided to boost :)

So the extra $500 is Justified IYO? better manifold, bigger Turbo and far easier to upgrade the turbo down the track coze of flange size/position :thumbsup:

As for how much certain engine can take, 9 PSI is on my just Rebuilt D16Y1/D16Z6 and using a D16Y1/D16Z6 Greddy Kit and its stock turbo

The engine was rebuilt only using stock inters but anything worn was replaced and I've be running her in using this method
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Will the D16Y8 Greddy kit fit my D16Z6 without any modding needed?

Bit more space under the EG than the EK I would think?

I'm not aiming to break any records just a fun day driver with bit of a bit :D

Cheer's Luke
I think you misunderstood what I meant with the flange stuff. The greddy 14b and 16g turbos use the same flange. It's a really weird set up, that you're unlikely to find another turbo that will bolt up at all.

You shouldn't have any problem with 9 psi on stock internals... just be sure to get something larger than 310cc though... you're not going to be able to get much higher than the 5 psi or so the greddy kit is set up for on those injectors.

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 03:22 PM
I think you misunderstood what I meant with the flange stuff. The greddy 14b and 16g turbos use the same flange. It's a really weird set up, that you're unlikely to find another turbo that will bolt up at all.

You shouldn't have any problem with 9 psi on stock internals... just be sure to get something larger than 310cc though... you're not going to be able to get much higher than the 5 psi or so the greddy kit is set up for on those injectors.

Ok so going for D16Y8 in is the only option coze I won't be able to find a turbo to match and you might as well have the biggerst to start with that greedy offers

How about

Will the D16Y8 Greddy kit fit my D16Z6 without any modding needed?

Bit more space under the EG than the EK I would think?

saxman
20-11-2005, 03:28 PM
Ok so going for D16Y8 in is the only option coze I won't be able to find a turbo to match and you might as well have the biggerst to start with that greedy offers

How about

Will the D16Y8 Greddy kit fit my D16Z6 without any modding needed?

Bit more space under the EG than the EK I would think?

the only problem I could see you running into would be with the charge pipes... but that is easy enough to fix



honestly though, I would be much much more inclined to go with the edelbrock kit than the greddy... it is FAR superior

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 03:39 PM
the only problem I could see you running into would be with the charge pipes... but that is easy enough to fix



honestly though, I would be much much more inclined to go with the edelbrock kit than the greddy... it is FAR superior

I would if I had that type of cash :D

its like twice the price and would cost so much to get it into OZ :(

saxman
20-11-2005, 04:10 PM
I would if I had that type of cash :D

its like twice the price and would cost so much to get it into OZ :(

if money is such a concern, why are you looking at a premade kit anyway? they serve one purpose... to make the seller money

2MPRSS
20-11-2005, 04:22 PM
i recon save the extra money need to do internals,later on you will want more power...once you go turbo and see the diffrence u always want more

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 04:28 PM
if money is such a concern, why are you looking at a premade kit anyway? they serve one purpose... to make the seller money

Well thats what I was going to get from the start but now that I've read and learned so much I think I could DIY but its still a big undertaking anyway

But at the same time maybe its safer to get a kit for my first turbo?111


i recon save the extra money need to do internals,later on you will want more power...once you go turbo and see the diffrence u always want more

I hear that Omar :p

saxman
20-11-2005, 04:31 PM
Well thats what I was going to get from the start but now that I've read and learned so much I think I could DIY but its still a big undertaking anyway

But at the same time maybe its safer to get a kit for my first turbo?111



I hear that Omar :p
there's nothing magical about a kit. It's really a rather simple list of components that have to be put together. A diy set up with real fuel management is goign to be a whole hell of a lot safer than a kit with what they consider acceptable.

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 04:38 PM
there's nothing magical about a kit. It's really a rather simple list of components that have to be put together. A diy set up with real fuel management is goign to be a whole hell of a lot safer than a kit with what they consider acceptable.

To someone who knows what the hell they are doing lol

Might start looking into it :thumbsup: tho I'm in OZ and its not like the US when I can buy something cheap and if its wrong try again czoe whatever I buy right or wrong its still going to cost heasps here :rolleyes:

2MPRSS
20-11-2005, 05:05 PM
how much power can u get out of the turbo kit u looking at buying???

Lukezen27
20-11-2005, 05:07 PM
how much power can u get out of the turbo kit u looking at buying???

Greddy kit for my D16Y1 with intercooler upgrade is good for 120KW @ the wheels or so I'm told

integrity
20-11-2005, 06:47 PM
no it should be fine running stock injectors ...
standard injectors can handle a certain amount of pressure until they go BANG...
but thats pushing standard injectors to bout 10 or more PSI ...
i will change injectors laster on but for now 7psi is fine until im over it ill do te rest...
ask V&E rigoli(syd) , MRT performance(syd) and AVO turboworld(melbourne) ...
runing that setup is fine if you not pushing it more then 7 psi for daily driving

saxman
22-11-2005, 05:26 PM
no it should be fine running stock injectors ...
standard injectors can handle a certain amount of pressure until they go BANG...
but thats pushing standard injectors to bout 10 or more PSI ...
i will change injectors laster on but for now 7psi is fine until im over it ill do te rest...
ask V&E rigoli(syd) , MRT performance(syd) and AVO turboworld(melbourne) ...
runing that setup is fine if you not pushing it more then 7 psi for daily driving
please explain to me how they're fine


I've listed many ways they aren't, and what it takes to get the proper fuel out of stock injectors. By telling people they are, you're just spreading misinformation without any back up to suggest why they might work.

tinkerbell
22-11-2005, 08:55 PM
please explain to me how they're fine


i would love to know too.

saying "ask workshop x about it" doesnt help...

integrity - are you running any engine managment? what fuel pump and regulator? what fuel pressure?

yourfather
23-11-2005, 03:22 AM
To someone who knows what the hell they are doing lol

Might start looking into it :thumbsup: tho I'm in OZ and its not like the US when I can buy something cheap and if its wrong try again czoe whatever I buy right or wrong its still going to cost heasps here :rolleyes:

Just get someone who knows what they are doing i.e. your saxman's or your pro-ecu's or whoever, as long as they can walk the talk, to help you organise your own shopping list, pull out your visa debit card, and let your fingers do the buying.

they arent all here to make a buck outta you. so yeah, even DynoDave has been talking to me about my objectives, drop em a line, and maybe drop a slab of beer their way with all the money you will save buying it yourself.

they'll scratch your back if you'll scratch theirs ya know.

integrity
24-11-2005, 07:15 AM
in term of "they be fine" meaning running on 7 psi of boost until internals areput in should be ok to run for daily driving.

saxman
24-11-2005, 11:00 AM
in term of "they be fine" meaning running on 7 psi of boost until internals areput in should be ok to run for daily driving.
but it isn't, as in order to get the fueling needs required by the engine at 7 psi of boost, you have to raise the fuel pressure so significantly that you're putting the fueling system under huge stress and risking catastrophic injector failure that's going to take you engine out with it.

I hardly consider that "ok to run for daily driving."

tinkerbell
24-11-2005, 11:03 AM
yes, with long term high static FP, you risk damage to:

a) fuel pump
b) injectors
c) FPR

and ultimatly if one of these items fails, you damage the engine...

short term you could get away with it, but "daily driven"? not for long...

saxman
24-11-2005, 11:31 AM
not to mention that someone running stock fuel injectors with really high fuel pressure 99% of the time has no form of ignition control, so you basically are getting hit with the potential damage caused by high fuel pressure, no tunability of your a/f, and WAY too much timing.

It's really quite the trifecta of daily driving reliability. You might as well go buy a gun and use your engine for target practice, it might last longer.

GSI-PSI
24-11-2005, 05:51 PM
not to mention that someone running stock fuel injectors with really high fuel pressure 99% of the time has no form of ignition control, so you basically are getting hit with the potential damage caused by high fuel pressure, no tunability of your a/f, and WAY too much timing.

It's really quite the trifecta of daily driving reliability. You might as well go buy a gun and use your engine for target practice, it might last longer.

Saxman u got it all wrong man, No idiot would run plain old fuel injectors without no backup. If ya talkin about the AVO setup, well if ya all done ya homework, instead of bitching, it comes with an extra injector which then leaves this arguement dead. Secondly my engine is going strong on 10psi every day and i dont drive like a granny either.

Oh and yes i have stock standard honda gsi injectors as well :D

tinkerbell
24-11-2005, 06:15 PM
um, are you calling integrity an idiot?

he is the one stating:


no it should be fine running stock injectors ...

he has made NO MENTION of anything else, despite being asked...

GSI-PSI
24-11-2005, 06:24 PM
um, are you calling integrity an idiot?

he is the one stating:



he has made NO MENTION of anything else, despite being asked...

My mistake, Integrity your a GOOSE!!! lol

tinkerbell
24-11-2005, 06:49 PM
just because you are running a well performing kit, with the benefit of the years of experience that AVO carries, doesnt mean that everyone else is on the same page...

integrity is still trying to understand why stock injectors are not enough...

GSI-PSI
24-11-2005, 07:18 PM
just because you are running a well performing kit, with the benefit of the years of experience that AVO carries, doesnt mean that everyone else is on the same page...

integrity is still trying to understand why stock injectors are not enough...


good thanx

saxman
24-11-2005, 08:54 PM
and running an extra injector would mean you're not running just stock injectors ;)


although personally, I would much rather run larger injectors all around instead of an extra injector, but that's just me.

MR.spoon
07-12-2005, 03:53 PM
y dont u just use aftermarket 550cc injectors ul b safe as heaven :)

GSI-PSI
07-12-2005, 05:36 PM
y dont u just use aftermarket 550cc injectors ul b safe as heaven :)

because thats how i bought the kit :p