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wynode
16-03-2004, 01:54 PM
I have moved the ongoing issue from the FOR SALE forum here. The original thread is here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4265&start=0&postdays=0&postorder= asc&highlight=


The seats come with original subby rails. I didn't cut or modify the rails/brackets or my car in any way to fit it in.
What I did was make brackets to connect the non-aligning holes and that's it! :)To anyone interested in the seats, you WILL have to get an engineers certificate if you do fit them in your car.

_Wing_
16-03-2004, 03:28 PM
The seats come with original subby rails. I didn't cut or modify the rails/brackets or my car in any way to fit it in.
What I did was make brackets to connect the non-aligning holes and that's it! :)To anyone interested in the seats, you WILL have to get an engineers certificate if you do fit them in your car.

Just like how you would for any other seat that did not originally come with your car.

Perhaps you should tell that in the carbon fibre bonnet thread? Or did you miss it?
Or maybe you should tell people that HID's are illegal no matter what because of ADR's and should not be sold? Did you miss that thread?
Or maybe you should warn all the people that a buddy club spec 2 catback exhuast system does not meet the legal sound levels of an exhuast? Did that also slip through your fine-tooth administraing comb?

Let the community know so that you wont be mistakenly labelled as a discriminator. "vti-2" can chime in at any time too.

vti-2
16-03-2004, 03:37 PM
The seats come with original subby rails. I didn't cut or modify the rails/brackets or my car in any way to fit it in.
What I did was make brackets to connect the non-aligning holes and that's it! :)To anyone interested in the seats, you WILL have to get an engineers certificate if you do fit them in your car.

Just like how you would for any other seat that did not originally come with your car.

Perhaps you should tell that in the carbon fibre bonnet thread? Or did you miss it?
Or maybe you should tell people that HID's are illegal no matter what because of ADR's and should not be sold? Did you miss that thread?
Or maybe you should warn all the people that a buddy club spec 2 catback exhuast system does not meet the legal sound levels of an exhuast? Did that also slip through your fine-tooth administraing comb?

Let the community know so that you wont be mistakenly labelled as a discriminator. "vti-2" can chime in at any time too.

:?

Are you for real?

Let me get this right. You post stuff up for sale that is unrelated and against the T&C. We then let you sell the WRX seats and you rip into the admin/mods?

Chill out mate.

_Wing_
16-03-2004, 04:06 PM
Am I for real?
Yes. I appologise for the unrelated item... the mixer was out of place [although last night I saw a mixer in a car on television, but why the debate?]. Although the "droid" bar is for a lancer that does not neccessarily mean you can't fit it to a honda. Ever seen a bodykit for a different car fitted to a honda before? I can show you if you like.
I didn't question them both though, but I did for the seats.

Upon inquiry, you flicked it off onto "wynode" for no given reason. Obviously wynode tried to back up your decision by saying:

You can sell the WRX bucket seets provided you can prove that they will fit in a Honda.
GREAT! Who cares about the little details of "why/why not", I'm happy we've solved this problem. I get to repost the item to sell *horay*

Then wynode has to come in and say:

To anyone interested in the seats, you WILL have to get an engineers certificate if you do fit them in your car.
To which I point out disciminatory behaviour, and end with this statement:

Let the community know so that you wont be mistakenly labelled as a discriminator. "vti-2" can chime in at any time too.
Is that so much to ask?

vti-2
16-03-2004, 04:29 PM
_Wing_ - i asked you to PM wynode about putting the WRX seats back up because he is administrator/owner of the site and has final say on items that i feel are questionable. Maybe next time i shouldn't give you the benefit of the doubt and should simply not allow you to post the unrelated item (which goes against the T&C anyway). I don't see why it's so hard to stick to the T&C when hundreds of other members can stick to them and not have a problem here.

And don't make it look like i 'flicked' you off because i didn't. I asked you to PM wynode about the seats. Is that so hard considering you might be able to sell them here?

I'm always open to queries and you should NOT feel obliged to ask/query me on anything. My email addy is also in my profile so it's not like you can't contact me regarding any issues.

Lastly, can i just point out this is a free service we offer you. If wynode makes a simple factual statement there's no need to jump on him the way you did. He let you sell the seats for pete's sake! I'm sure many others browsing this forum have the same opinion.

Don't abuse the free service!

pornstar
16-03-2004, 04:35 PM
but u gotta admit that wynode shouldnt really be posting that in this thread, cos it does seem that he is picking on wing abit vicster. i mean wings point is that every other item here is pretty much illegal, and requred to get an engineer...

but meh, ill go back to my coronas ;)

Jim80y
16-03-2004, 05:47 PM
Agreed. If a post is made regarding the legality of the item, there should be a similar post in other threads too. It does seem as this thread was singled out, why it was is beyond me.

Free service or not, there should be consistency in how the forum is moderated.

EDIT: I apologise for posting even though I am not interested in any of the items :)

http://www.ozhonda.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1054

EDIT 2: Wing's comment may have been a smart ass comment, but it was inappropriate as Wynode's. As for the seats being unrelated, there has been a whole lot of other "non-Honda" equipment for sale which has been posted without criticism. My whinge is only about the inconsistent moderation, nothing else.

joneblaze
16-03-2004, 05:56 PM
I agree with Jimboy...

the points Wing brought up a few posts ago are completely legitimate and fair.
The fact that this forum/community board is a free service shouldn't be used so frequently in dealing with admin/rule issues. I'm sure everyone here is extremely grateful for the forum and site, but wouldn't be better to deal with the matter at hand?
IMO Wing's been very mature about the matter.

As jimboy said, apologies for posting when not interested.

(i'll sit back quietly and wait to get laughed at again now...
http://www.ozhonda.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3862&start=15 )


Jon


edit: PS- also failed to mention Wing's initial post is one of the most concise and informative FS posts I've seen on ANY forum for ages! lol :) He's got detailed listings + multiple pics. He also apologised for the mislisting of the mixer and lancer bar... he's copped it pretty harsh considering the posts with bad grammer/mispelling, other unrelated items FS running around....

vti-2
16-03-2004, 06:29 PM
You guys complain too much over things that are so trivial. Get the facts right before you start whinging.

The WRX seats are not related (read: non Honda equipment) therefore they shouldn't be here anyway. We allowed the item because the user asked for it to be left in the thread. wynode kindly allowed it to be posted and made a comment and Wing then made what clearly appears to be a smart ass remark (correct me if i'm wrong) about why other threads aren't treated in the same way.

Refer to the below quote taken from the T&C.

"C. Refrain from selling unrelated goods. Goods that are allowed to be traded are Honda related equipment, audio/video and in some cases computer equipment. Ozhonda reserves the right to remove posts selling goods deemed as unrelated. "

Well mate, looks like this problem arose because you posted unrelated items.

Take this as a lesson in future (and i mean that in the kindest possible way). Don't post unrelated items and you won't go through this hassle.

And that takes me back to the 'free service' comment i made. Just cause it's free, it doesn't give you the right to come on here and push non related products onto the members, engage in PM's with moderators who let you post the item and then turn around and have a stab at them.

I'm very disappointed.

Wing - feel free to take this up in a PM or email with me as i don't want a debate in your FS thread.

To the others, thanks for the input but keep it off this thread. Send me a PM or email and i'm happy to discuss it.

I can't stress how important it is that you keep within the T&C. They are there for a reason. I like to see things for sale for other Ozhonda members but don't forget there are rules as well on this forum.

Now, let's keep this thread on topic.

regards. :)

wynode
16-03-2004, 08:11 PM
Wing, you weren't singled out when I made that comment. I just wanted the people buying it to know that you can't just bolt it on (for safety reasons more than anything) and NOT to stop people from buying it. We gave you the benefit of the doubt and you turn around and bite us in the back? I don't like that.

As for being consistent in the Marketplace, there are always people winging but hardly anyone MSGs me or one of the admins to point out items going against the T&C. As stated in the T&C its hard for us to follow every single post.

We put a lot of time into this, so if there is someone who can do a better job in the Marketplace then let me know. If there isn't, then we will continue to cover all the forums the best we can.

Black_VTi
16-03-2004, 10:44 PM
I don't think anybody is being very constructive on this thread.

I am interested in fitting WRX seats to my Civic, and have been told by an engineer that it will take about 1.5 hours to do. I like these seats and will be in contact with you shortly.

The items are related as they are a car part, and can be fitted to a Honda.
If they are unrelated, then why can u advertise recaro seats in here, as u need a civic rail on them, I dont see the difference. If you really want to be so pedantic, then all aftermarket parts that dont bolt straight into a Honda should be removed from these forums..

wynode
17-03-2004, 07:47 AM
FFS did you even read the thread?


Hi,

You can sell the WRX bucket seets provided you can prove that they will fit in a Honda.

-Win

_Wing_
17-03-2004, 04:43 PM
This is a long long post because I have much to comment on the many previous posts before my last.
Edited: too damned long.


[in response to vti-2's post(s)]
We complain about such trivial things? I think you and wynode are the ones getting worked up over this because you and wynode have made a mistake and cannot say sorry and admit your mistake.
You want facts? OK... here are the FACTS - you're Terms of posting are too vague. "honda-related", does that mean anything that fits in/on or is placed inside a honda? or does it have to say honda somewhere?
"audio/video", you don't mind me posting a VCR or camcorder now would you?

Smart arse? I am? Please quote and explain where the "smart ass" remarks and comments are.

I posted UNRELATED ITEMS? Is that so? What is a "mixer"? Audio/visual? What is a front bumper bar? A car modification that *can* be fitted onto a honda. WRX seats - seats that came out of a WRX that *can* and in this case has been fitted to a honda, therefore it makes it honda-related.

I'm not PUSHING anything to members, I blieve I am offering it them. Don't worry about PM's and emails, no need to be all secretive about it, let all members see and judge for themselves - they can also post too.

Why are you dissapointed?


[in response to wynode's post(s)]
I wasn't singled out? Why then is there such inconsistency?
"you can't just bolt it"; obviously.
Is it mainly safety reasons? Let me see... you should post in the carbon fibre bonnet thread that you *should* get hood pins for fear of the latch breaking and flipping up and breaking your windscreen, damaging your roof and anything else behind that section of your car - be it boot, spoiler, another car, etc. BETTER YET, tell them NOT to buy it since carbon fibre bonnets are illegal, do NOT meet ADR's since they are not submitted for testing and hence intelligence would say that most likely the bonnet will not crumble and bend and fold the way an OEM bonnet has been designed for since it made of carbon fibre - a much stronger material.

I turn around and bite you? You don't like it? How did I bite you? I don't like being picked on. Don't give me a hard time because such as yourself, I don't like that either. I am here to learn and help, check all my posts if you like.
It's hard for you to follow every post? Well I've brought up a few, hows about you go and "moderate" them?

And why the "FFS"? I do assume it means "FOR FU(KS SAKE". That's not a good way to treat a valued member.

To "Black_VTi" - you're interested? Great. You can contact me anytime - sooner the better of course.

mo
17-03-2004, 05:28 PM
Didn't read one word you guys all wrote but I think the point about
C. Refrain from selling unrelated goods. should go into more depth...such as that you cannot sell anything that is non relate to CARS in general. ie portable audio, computer parts, books and what not. but things that are related to cars in general should be allowed as you can modify basically anything to fit onto whatever you drive...just depends if you want to spend the $$ to modify it.

alright enough from me...*crawls back into benji's pocket*

edit: i am asian, need to read over what i type

Jim80y
17-03-2004, 05:39 PM
Right now there's a graphics card in the FS section, 30 + views and it's still there :roll:

Calvo
17-03-2004, 06:23 PM
IMO, yes there r rules and T&C or watever, but seriously, dont need to be all up tight and follow EVERY single rule.
wouldnt hurt to be lenient at times, this is such a small matter.
Nazi admins/mods r not wat we need (im not refering to ANYONE). we are in this community for a reason, we all have common interests.

vti-2
17-03-2004, 06:39 PM
This thread is incredible. Do you think we moderators are really that gullible?

Well... here goes my reply...


We complain about such trivial things? I think you and wynode are the ones getting worked up over this because you and wynode have made a mistake and cannot say sorry and admit your mistake.


I, personally, am not getting worked up at all (wynode speaks for himself). I have made no 'mistake' on my behalf and will not apologise to you.


You want facts? OK... here are the FACTS - you're Terms of posting are too vague. "honda-related", does that mean anything that fits in/on or is placed inside a honda? or does it have to say honda somewhere?
"audio/video", you don't mind me posting a VCR or camcorder now would you?

Ok. Point taken. I don't dispute that. Make a new post in Site Discussion and see what everyone else thinks.

BUT, DO NOT think that it gives you a loop-hole in which you somehow believe that it entitles you to post items that are not related.

This is exactly what the T&C says.

C. Refrain from selling unrelated goods. Goods that are allowed to be traded are Honda related equipment, audio/video and in some cases computer equipment. Ozhonda reserves the right to remove posts selling goods deemed as unrelated.

It's a 'no brainer'. Honda related equipment doesn't mean you can post WRX seats. A/V equipments for cars can be posted because it's related but NOT home audio equipment! How is that related to this forum or cars!?!? EVERYTHING, is subject to approval. Read the condition above.

If you have a beef with it, bring it up in Site Discussion in a seperate thread and don't kick up a huge fuss about it in a FS thread (which is what you did) and expect us leave the thread left alone.


Smart arse? I am? Please quote and explain where the "smart ass" remarks and comments are.

I didn't call you a smart ass. I said that in one of your initial posts, you came across as making a smart ass comment. Need to know which one?

Here it is:

Just like how you would for any other seat that did not originally come with your car.

Perhaps you should tell that in the carbon fibre bonnet thread? Or did you miss it?
Or maybe you should tell people that HID's are illegal no matter what because of ADR's and should not be sold? Did you miss that thread?
Or maybe you should warn all the people that a buddy club spec 2 catback exhuast system does not meet the legal sound levels of an exhuast? Did that also slip through your fine-tooth administraing comb?

Let the community know so that you wont be mistakenly labelled as a discriminator. "vti-2" can chime in at any time too.

:roll:


Don't worry about PM's and emails, no need to be all secretive about it, let all members see and judge for themselves - they can also post too.

This is no secret. We split this thread and moved it to Site Discussion so everyone could see what us Moderators have to put up with on a regular basis. Everyone is welcome to judge for themselves the kind of member you are.

Firstly, you post something that is unrelated, then after being allowed to sell the product, you turn around and snap at our backs.

Do you have any idea how pathetic that is? I'm not calling you pathetic either, i'm just saying, for what we've done, for you to then go around and kick up a stink the way you have is, well, really really pathetic.

At no stage did you send a simple PM or email saying, "sorry guys, maybe i shouldn't have posted that mixer and those seats". Instead, you short of begged us to allow you to leave the seats up and then turn it into a downright whinge fest.


Why are you dissapointed?

:roll:

I mean, common. Read this thread again properly. Read what has happened and that answer is fairly self explanatory.

The fact that you are still arguing and seeking an apology sums up what sort of person you are.

I'll give you my honest opinion, you may not like it but here it is.

I don't think you should be allowed to sell on this forum anymore. I've wasted (literally) almost an hour in total on this thread of yours and for what? Nothing!

You are seeking an apology from us for a mistake you made and think we are trying to hide behind PM's.

Well... this thread is the cream of the crop.

vti-2
17-03-2004, 06:51 PM
Right now there's a graphics card in the FS section, 30 + views and it's still there :roll:

The T&C has an allowance for computer related equipment.

C. Refrain from selling unrelated goods. Goods that are allowed to be traded are Honda related equipment, audio/video and in some cases computer equipment. Ozhonda reserves the right to remove posts selling goods deemed as unrelated.

The problem is that some people abuse the service which is why threads get locked/edited/deleted. Use some common sense when posting stuff for sale.

If you think it may go against the T&C, send one of the Mods a PM. It's not that hard.

And if we say no, that's how it is. There are so many forums out there that are free that you can advertise on it beats me why some people get on here and try to knock off work benches or mixers like it's the first and last place on earth they will sell it at.

vti-2
17-03-2004, 06:58 PM
IMO, yes there r rules and T&C or watever, but seriously, dont need to be all up tight and follow EVERY single rule.
wouldnt hurt to be lenient at times, this is such a small matter.
Nazi admins/mods r not wat we need (im not refering to ANYONE). we are in this community for a reason, we all have common interests.

The T&C are there for a reason. If you don't like it bad luck. We need to adhere to those because if we don't the FS section will be littered with crap no one wants. That's one of the reasons it is so closely moderated.

In regards to your Nazi comment, all i will say is that this forum is moderated very well. I never receive PM's or emails of complaint, only positive feedback. I've had positive feedback from quite literally close to 100 members.

And if we are doing anything wrong, i want feedback from members!

LatinoHatchCrap
17-03-2004, 07:31 PM
This is wot i have to say regardless of what wing did it seems like he made an effort to to sell his stuff (pics, descript, etc etc). I respect that. I see about 20 posts in the FS thread of: *hey i just got _______, selling my old ______. This my email dickhead@shiteater.com* no adress no pics not info about the cond of the stuff WTF that!! now that's just a joke on the mods faces!!! if you guys moderate then mnoderate shitty sellers who just join up to sell and make no effort to make the FS forum a decent place to buy/sell...
fair enough sum of the stuff was unrealted but lets see fairness and constructive criticism across the board...peace :)

_Wing_
17-03-2004, 07:39 PM
I'll reply to your replies tomorrow.
Let me just say that I have the proof that they will fit in a honda - would you like to see or is my word enough now?

Calvo
17-03-2004, 07:49 PM
The T&C are there for a reason. If you don't like it bad luck. We need to adhere to those because if we don't the FS section will be littered with crap no one wants. That's one of the reasons it is so closely moderated.

In regards to your Nazi comment, all i will say is that this forum is moderated very well. I never receive PM's or emails of complaint, only positive feedback. I've had positive feedback from quite literally close to 100 members.

And if we are doing anything wrong, i want feedback from members!
dont get me wrong dude, the moderating has been fine and this site/forum/community is excellent. but theres just the occasional situation that really is taken out of hand, IMO.
but hey, i take every opportunity i can to promote this place, if i see ppl on the streets/roads/forums that i think would be interested in this place or need help, i send them this way. if i thought this place was crap, i wouldnt do so, and i wouldnt be here.

in regards to Latino's post, i totally agree. i also think that ppl should only be able to sell items after a certain amount of time after joining (like maybe if u reach a certain number of posts or period of time), coz i believe the service of the for sale section should only be available to those that have contributed or used this place for its proper purpose, which isnt to just sell stuff.

wynode
17-03-2004, 08:08 PM
This is wot i have to say regardless of what wing did it seems like he made an effort to to sell his stuff (pics, descript, etc etc). I respect that. I see about 20 posts in the FS thread of: *hey i just got _______, selling my old ______. This my email dickhead@shiteater.com* no adress no pics not info about the cond of the stuff WTF that!! now that's just a joke on the mods faces!!! if you guys moderate then mnoderate shitty sellers who just join up to sell and make no effort to make the FS forum a decent place to buy/sell...
fair enough sum of the stuff was unrealted but lets see fairness and constructive criticism across the board...peace :)

Yes this is an ongoing issue and we are trying to implement the minimum post count restriction. Please be patient because we are trying to do something about it.

Wing, like I said I did not mean to single you out with my comment. If they WRX seats fit in a Honda thats fine. We allowed you to post it and now you are still complaining about it? I don't know what else to say about that.

Well its hard to be specific and list all the items that can be sold in the marketplace because we could go on forever. Its basically car related Honda equipment in a nutshell. Computer stuff is only allowed if it is to do ith in car entertainment. When we say Audio/Video then that is to do with a car......not a home theatre system for instance.

As you have probably noticed joneblaze has put his hand up to assist with moderation (nobody else did) so we have an extra hand now.

wynode
17-03-2004, 08:09 PM
Right now there's a graphics card in the FS section, 30 + views and it's still there :roll:

Its has been removed. But you could always PM a mod and he/she will take care of it :)

vti-2
17-03-2004, 09:16 PM
I'll reply to your replies tomorrow.
Let me just say that I have the proof that they will fit in a honda - would you like to see or is my word enough now?

Your word is enough. I never said they won't fit a Honda. We know they can fit with modification (that was never the issue).

Can we just drop this now? It's done to death.

pornstar
18-03-2004, 02:29 PM
IMHO, cos its not worht very much is that everyone should relax and have a carona :)

I wanna make life tuff for Vicster, but id better not, cos he will bash me :(

joneblaze
18-03-2004, 02:44 PM
Hmm.. pornstar does your dad own a brewery or something? You seem to have a 24/7 affinity to the mexican brew... :)
If so, please send a case or ten up our way... :


Sydney Ozhonda
Win's House


:)

_Wing_
18-03-2004, 03:12 PM
This is just a short post to say that the next post is in reply to all posts directed to me, just so that you can see that I have valid arguements to each statement made to me.
Also, it appears long because of all the quoting involved... it actually isn't *that* long IMO, but did take me 2 hours to type.


I've wasted (literally) almost an hour in total on this thread of yours and for what? Nothing!
YOU have wasted all our time.
I *may* have posted unrelated items for sale, but since you quote the terms and conditions so many times, it looks like YOU ARE WRONG and I have actually posted related items.
See below.

_Wing_
18-03-2004, 03:26 PM
[Going in anti-cronological order to replys]



Can we just drop this now? It's done to death.
So now YOU want to drop this? I think the real reason is not because it's "done to death", it is because you are wrong on ALL presented levels... which, of course I will point out shortly.

I never said they won't fit a Honda
I never said you said they won't fit a honda. Actually, I didn't accuse of anybody saying it does not fit a honda... I was requested to have proof of it being fit into a honda in order to sell them... so I have the proof on hand now, I was offering it.

Wing, like I said I did not mean to single you out with my comment. If they WRX seats fit in a Honda thats fine. We allowed you to post it and now you are still complaining about it? I don't know what else to say about that.
wynode, if you were starving to death and I offered you a raw slice of beaf that's been dropped on the floor, would you eat it? I know I'd do that to survive [not that I'd like it], but I will still complain about it... why does it have to be raw, why does it have to be dropped on the floor? Only reason I can think of is negative. Same analogy; you let me sell the seats, but you have to trampled all over it [the thread].
Can you give me positive reason(s) why you had to do that? And no, safety reasons are not good enough, or else you should and would have posted that in all the threads I have pointed out.

Well its hard to be specific and list all the items that can be sold in the marketplace because we could go on forever. Its basically car related Honda equipment in a nutshell. Computer stuff is only allowed if it is to do ith in car entertainment. When we say Audio/Video then that is to do with a car......not a home theatre system for instance.
I didn't say you had to be specific. If it's "basically" so and so... why didn't you basically put that in your own T&C? That is not my fault you are vague.

now that's just a joke on the mods faces!!! if you guys moderate then mnoderate shitty sellers who just join up to sell and make no effort to make the FS forum a decent place to buy/sell...
Please take note just in case you might have missed it the first time.

The T&C are there for a reason. If you don't like it bad luck.
Are you putting down your big moderator foot now? You have no other way of convincing people? Rules are rules, right? If so, please follow on in this post where I tell you the rules are working AGAINST you.

That's one of the reasons it is so closely moderated.
If it is so closely moderated, why can I, at whim, pick out 3 shinning examples of unfair moderation? I pointed them out to you, I even TOLD YOU DIRECTLY the reason(s) why they should be moderated, but you come and bite me, telling me I'm not doing you justice.

Nazi admins/mods r not wat we need (im not refering to ANYONE).
First, sorry to Calvo for having to do this to your comment, I mean no disrespect to you, I am pointing out a point of view of a member.
OBVIOUSLY *somebody* here is a "Nazi mod/admin" - s/he would not be talking about not needing these types of mods/admins in a [for example] mobile phone forum - we are posting on THIS forum and THIS FORUM is what he must be refering to[if there is such a thing]. You [all people following this thread] can judge who that person is.

i want feedback from members!
You're getting your feedback.

The problem is that some people abuse the service which is why threads get locked/edited/deleted. Use some common sense when posting stuff for sale.
Are you refering to me? I am refering to "some people abuse the service".

If you think it may go against the T&C, send one of the Mods a PM. It's not that hard.
And if we say no, that's how it is
Is that you throwing your moderating weight again? :roll: As a community, it looks like you as the moderators must not be selectively moderating posts, you should treat ALL posts the same - which you have not.

There are so many forums out there that are free that you can advertise on it beats me why some people get on here and try to knock off work benches or mixers like it's the first and last place on earth they will sell it at.
What do you mean by "knock off work benches or mixers like it's first and last place on earth they will sell it at."? Are you accusing me of stealing these items?, or are accusing me of trying to only sell my things here and only here?

This thread is incredible. Do you think we moderators are really that gullible?
Incredible because shortly you will see all the levels you are wrong.
Oh... so are you "moderators" are higher being than the rest of us "members"? That is what you imply. I thought we were all human beings, what makes a moderator more gullible than a member or vice-versa?

I, personally, am not getting worked up at all (wynode speaks for himself). I have made no 'mistake' on my behalf and will not apologise to you.
You're not? Great, but notice I said "I think...", how will I ever know if anybody is "getting worked up" over anything? I can't know for certain, nobody can know for certain, it is all in the opinion of others.
You have made no mistake? Keep reading to find out how you have. Stubborness is when you are proven wrong and you still push on claiming you are right.

Ok. Point taken. I don't dispute that. Make a new post in Site Discussion and see what everyone else thinks.

BUT, DO NOT think that it gives you a loop-hole in which you somehow believe that it entitles you to post items that are not related.
OK - so you've gotten the point. Why do you then still push on and make more useless comments when YOU have gotten the point? A loop-hole is a loop hole, I did not exploit it intentionally, but when you throw around T&C's like it's the end all and be all on my post, I will take your T&C's word for word and tell you that you are hopelessly wrong.

This is exactly what the T&C says.

C. Refrain from selling unrelated goods. Goods that are allowed to be traded are Honda related equipment, audio/video and in some cases computer equipment. Ozhonda reserves the right to remove posts selling goods deemed as unrelated.

It's a 'no brainer'. Honda related equipment doesn't mean you can post WRX seats. A/V equipments for cars can be posted because it's related but NOT home audio equipment! How is that related to this forum or cars!?!? EVERYTHING, is subject to approval. Read the condition above.
"No brainer" is it? Well hey, I *just* flicked open the FOR SALE forum and what do you know... "Blackwidow alarm for sale"; oh, this is NOT A HONDA-RELATED ITEM, get it off!! Just like how a bucket seat is not a HONDA-RELATED ITEM right?... although it's brand is "subaru", it's model name is "wrx" - tell me where the difference is.
I'll get back to this point later.

If you have a beef with it, bring it up in Site Discussion in a seperate thread and don't kick up a huge fuss about it in a FS thread (which is what you did) and expect us leave the thread left alone.

Perhaps you should do what you love most - PM or email me and ask me to take off the "so called" unrelated items, but no, you had to put your big moderating foot in and THAT is how the fuss came about... if you kept it to PM's/emails, then there will be no fuss made in a FS thread.

Smart arse? I am? Please quote and explain where the "smart ass" remarks and comments are.

I didn't call you a smart ass. I said that in one of your initial posts, you came across as making a smart ass comment
Phew, for a second there, I thought you were branding me as a "smart ass". I asked you to quote and explain... quote you did, explain you did not.
That "comment"
is a statement of FACTS and legitament questions.
[quote]This is no secret.
That is because I posted it up publicly, unlike the way you prefered it to be done - via PM's and emails.

We split this thread and moved it to Site Discussion so everyone could see what us Moderators have to put up with on a regular basis.
The way you split my thread is in your favor to those only follow this thread without reading and knowing where each of the select posts were taken from. Good work.
You are a moderator. You choose to be one. Correct me if I am wrong but nobody forced you to be one. You can choose not to be one. Being a moderator means you have to deal with all the problems, regular basis or not. Don't complain to us.

Don't worry about PM's and emails, no need to be all secretive about it, let all members see and judge for themselves - they can also post too.

Everyone is welcome to judge for themselves the kind of member you are.
And the same goes out to you. I did not point that comment at you but you have to me. Nice.
Did I mention, if you keep reading, you will find out on all accounts why vti-2 is wrong? So keep reading and you the reader can judge him.
OBVIOUSLY you ignored the all the previous posts that imply something in your direction.

Do you have any idea how pathetic that is? I'm not calling you pathetic either, i'm just saying, for what we've done, for you to then go around and kick up a stink the way you have is, well, really really pathetic.
Oh, so what is pathetic then? If you're not calling me pathetic, what are you doing? You are telling me my post is pathetic? You are a joke. Let me stoop down to your level and explain it this way:
WARNING! - Smart ass comment inside:
IF I were to say...
- ...your brain does not work, am I saying YOU are stupid?
- ...your face is horrible, am I saying YOU are ugly?
- ...your penis gets hard when you see a male, am I saying YOU are a fag?
Yes or no?
Let me put it this way in case you missed it... I *would* be calling you a stupid ugly fag!
If YES, then you are saying I am pathetic. Not only are you stooping to extra low levels to gain "face"/respect, you have just "rocked" yourself. How? Read what you typed.
If NO, then explain what is pathetic and how you are not calling ME pathetic.
In ALL accounts, you are the pathetic one. You make a ... hold on, I'll get to that shortly... the reasons why you are wrong.

At no stage did you send a simple PM or email saying, "sorry guys, maybe i shouldn't have posted that mixer and those seats". Instead, you short of begged us to allow you to leave the seats up and then turn it into a downright whinge fest.
Riiiiiight. Sorry, I should have quietly admitted my *apparent* wrong doing instead of posting it up in the thread where everybody can see... you make much sense. :roll:
I didn't BEG you for the record, I questioned your decision. I asked you if I could put it back up. Where is the begging? I didn't even want to make any more fuss and be happy with re-posting the seats~ Now I am the one whinging? LOL!!! YOU really make me laugh out loud.
I'm almost finished adressing all of the posts... which means I'll be able to get onto all the wonderful reasons you are so so wrong.

Why are you dissapointed?
I mean, common. Read this thread again properly. Read what has happened and that answer is fairly self explanatory.
WARNING! - Smart ass comment inside:
You mean "common"? I don't know what you mean.
I have read this thread again, and I read all threads properly, I don't know about you and how many times you must read a thread before you deem it "properly".
The answer looks like this;
You are dissapointed because:

- not one person has agreed with what you say: go ahead and PM or email one of your buddies to write something nice about you now :roll:
- your T&C's have came around and bit you
- you are wrong on ALL accounts
- your aguements are invalid and based on opinions and feeling
- you had to stoop down to a such a low level that requires slander and yet have not achieved anything except maybe show the community your level of maturity [or lack thereof]


The fact that you are still arguing and seeking an apology sums up what sort of person you are.
I am not arguing, I am debating.
I think aguing starts when one party disrepects [long for the common term "diss"] another. What do you think?
I did not set out to seek for an apology, but now that we've gone thus far and you are so wrong on many occasions, an apology would make things better for yourself.
What sort of person is one which questions a wrong decision, what sort of a person sticks up for him/herself, what sort of person can maintain maturity, what sort of person can say sorry, what kind of person can debate a case in which s/he can state facts?

I'll give you my honest opinion, you may not like it but here it is.

I don't think you should be allowed to sell on this forum anymore. I've wasted (literally) almost an hour in total on this thread of yours and for what? Nothing!
Thanks for the honesty, I can say my opinion is always honest.

You will hear me frankly in the next post.

madgrk
18-03-2004, 03:31 PM
Someone close this, its so overly done... Let him sell the seats and get the hell on with it. If businesses debated about shit so much, they'd all end up having the reputation of Microsoft :)

_Wing_
18-03-2004, 03:34 PM
THIS IS TO KEEP IT ON THE FACTS - you should answer these questions
Here is the deal, extra short summary of events so far:
_Wing_: posts 3 items apparently unrelated - mixer, bumper, seats.
vti-2: removes these items stating they do not comply with T&C.
_Wing_: wonders why [on one item ONLY - seats] it was removed.
vti-2: cannot decide for himself so brings in wynode.
wynode: can post if I can prove they fit a honda.
_Wing_: happy.
wynode: must make a legal remark.
Then this:

Just like how you would for any other seat that did not originally come with your car.

Perhaps you should tell that in the carbon fibre bonnet thread? Or did you miss it?
Or maybe you should tell people that HID's are illegal no matter what because of ADR's and should not be sold? Did you miss that thread?
Or maybe you should warn all the people that a buddy club spec 2 catback exhuast system does not meet the legal sound levels of an exhuast? Did that also slip through your fine-tooth administraing comb?

Let the community know so that you wont be mistakenly labelled as a discriminator. "vti-2" can chime in at any time too.
- Where did I step out of line?
- What is wrong with stating facts? You have set an example stating that, so I state facts too.
- I point out what you have missed.
- I asked if you have missed it.
- I ask you to "let the community know" for the better of the entire board. Where is the fair and just practice that an admin/mod should practice?
- Did I insult you? Did I ask for too much? What is wrong with that statement?
- I dare say that that quoted statement is helping you by pointing you to threads of such nature, I even tell you why it is illegal so you don't have to think.


VTI-2 IS WRONG FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. The facts:

C. Refrain from selling unrelated goods. Goods that are allowed to be traded are Honda related equipment, audio/video and in some cases computer equipment. Ozhonda reserves the right to remove posts selling goods deemed as unrelated.
case I: everything is honda related.
That means no selling of [eg]alpine audio or [eg]intel computing.
case II: everything is car related.
That means anything that can and [for your sake of arguement] has been fitted to a car.
I have seen a mixer in a car, I have seen a range of bumpers fitted to a car, I have seen a computer in a car.
case III: take the terms word for word
HONDA-RELATED: what is honda related? Anything that fits a honda is deemed honda related.
AUDIO-VIDEO: anything that has to do with audio and video.
COMPUTER: anything to do with computing
What other cases are there that is obvious giving the wording?
Unless I am mistaken, these terms are set for members to read and understand, not admins/mods to ply with and THEN tell members what they "ACTUALLY" mean.

2. Members opinions:
As is obvious, no member has agreed with vti-2.
End point.

3. Inconsistent/selective/discriminative moderating:
A quote or 2 or 3 will prove this point:

Perhaps you should tell that in the carbon fibre bonnet thread? Or did you miss it?
Or maybe you should tell people that HID's are illegal no matter what because of ADR's and should not be sold? Did you miss that thread?
Or maybe you should warn all the people that a buddy club spec 2 catback exhuast system does not meet the legal sound levels of an exhuast? Did that also slip through your fine-tooth administraing comb?

it does seem that he is picking on wing abit

If a post is made regarding the legality of the item, there should be a similar post in other threads too. It does seem as this thread was singled out

Here is me and my frank thought(s):
vti-2, you have dragged wynode down with you, you should step down from being a moderator. At least then you will still have some dignity left... instead of going on on this board as a "nazi mod" that cannot answer a simply query, that discriminates, that is stubborn and that is immature.

madgrk
18-03-2004, 03:37 PM
dude, get over it please... Vic or Win please lock this :? :roll:

_Wing_
18-03-2004, 03:39 PM
Someone close this, its so overly done... Let him sell the seats and get the hell on with it. If businesses debated about shit so much, they'd all end up having the reputation of Microsoft :)

There is not reason why this thread must be closed.
I'd like to read what vti-2 has to say, I think there are others out there that want to see as well.

joneblaze
18-03-2004, 03:49 PM
I agree, 100%, with what Wing has just said. He has stated the facts with no malice, and the points he has brought up should really be questioned.
I doubt that you, Madgrk, even bothered to read his (rather lengthy :)) posts.
This thread shouldn't be locked or shunted away. The rest of interested forumers should be able to have their say. IMO, in no way is Wing being an idiot or being disrespectful. This thread is actually going somewhere.
You really can't just blanket everything with "delete/lock it now."

bennjamin
18-03-2004, 03:52 PM
soooooooooooooooooooooooo how long did you spend *cutting*, *pasting* and resubmitting etc ? Was it worth all those hours "arguing over the internet" When no doubt Both Win and Vic will continue on with daily life...but you will sit in ur room bitter and resentful froever MUHAhha.

But...option two is to GET OVER IT. You wanna make any claim that these boys are'nt doing there jobs correctly - keep in mind that its THEIR free time (and much more looking after and pleasing angry people :P)...and that YOU are using this free service , to make profit with not even a bone of "thanks" thrown their way for all the hard work .
All it takes is a flip of a switch and this resource (profit making for you it seems) will disappear.

BUT...why do mods abuse their power ? Why is it always a simple *click* and delete that seems to be the anwser for most problems...or issues brought up ? _Wing_ is on the ball...and he has struck a nerve which WILL continue on ;)

Dood , regardless of what happened- its good to voice your opinion - but to me it seems just abit of " me vs j00 - im right and u are wrong" .....
Remember - at the end of the day its not you who owns/runs them...its them that own J00 :P

Calvo
18-03-2004, 04:08 PM
I agree, 100%, with what Wing has just said. He has stated the facts with no malice, and the points he has brought up should really be questioned.
I doubt that you, Madgrk, even bothered to read his (rather lengthy :)) posts.
This thread shouldn't be locked or shunted away. The rest of interested forumers should be able to have their say. IMO, in no way is Wing being an idiot or being disrespectful. This thread is actually going somewhere.
You really can't just blanket everything with "delete/lock it now."
well said.

madgrk
18-03-2004, 04:17 PM
Jon, evidently I read about 80% of what wing said, and as much as I do agree with it, I really feel that things should just be put aside so we can all move on. There is much more to this forum than just complaining when things aren't done properly. Wing has a very valid point, if you're going to scrutineer someone, do it to everybody.

On the same token, people saying "I didnt say this" "Did I ever say that?" is just a blatent waste of time wouldnt you agree?

Of course I have my opinion, and my opinion is that Wing has/had a right to post his car seats, regardless if they were Subaru, Ford, Holden, or Honda. Its a seat and it can fit into a Honda. But I also won't deny that Wynode did hold a valid point in noting that you require the engineers certificate. But guys, if you're going to start noting these things out, you need to be stern and note it out to everyone selling aftermarket seats etc. Otherwise stuff like this will continue to happen.

This is an internet community and I wouldnt expect everyone to like what everyone says/does. But if we can all at least love each other over this, then the meets would be much less hostile :D

Lets all do as Andy the pornstar does and have a Corona :D:D

Jim80y
18-03-2004, 04:22 PM
I agree, 100%, with what Wing has just said. He has stated the facts with no malice, and the points he has brought up should really be questioned.
...
This thread shouldn't be locked or shunted away. The rest of interested forumers should be able to have their say. IMO, in no way is Wing being an idiot or being disrespectful. This thread is actually going somewhere.


Could not have said it any better :thumbsup:

wynode
18-03-2004, 08:43 PM
Wing,

List here (please don't start up an arguement) what you do not like and what you liked changed and I will look into it.

-Win

pornstar
19-03-2004, 04:05 AM
wyn, to cut it short, and i dont want to get into an argument over this, cos i still have caronas to drink:

he finds it unfair that u made the comment about legality in his thread, whereas the legality of most of the other items for sale are also illegal/require engineers but u dont see u reply that so in the post. Im not blaming u or anything, but he does have a point that to be fair and consistent, if ur going to reply like that to his thread, it should be done to everyones.

the seats are something i have a personal opinion on, but really, any seat can be made to fit any other seat so its not really an issue of its place being for sale.

having said all that, wing u gotta chill out abit. the point that u ahve raised are valid, but they are doing all the moderation for free bud, and they also pay for webspace etc, this service is free to u... so just chill out, dont take it to heart, and relax. everyone makes a mistake, now can u buy me a carona? ;)

ginganggooly
19-03-2004, 06:23 AM
*shrug*
only three comments -of highly dubious value- that i can add to the discussion, are that:

a) a miscellaineous "for sale" section may well have prevented all the recent unpleasantness. ;)

b) people really shouldn't argue with the site owner. sticking the toe into the mods is fine. the owner however, is something else entirely.
this site is presented to us at the expense of of certain people's time and presumably, money. I believe that the forum owner really shouldn't have to justify themselves beyond saying that something is the way they want it. forums don't have to be democratic, although it is in the interest of the health of the forum that the forum owner listens to the members. given that the owner did take the time to respond and appears to have listened, there isn't too much more that can be said on the issue.

and

c) i don't think we could reasonably expect the owner or admins to check every single new thread and post apearing throughout the various sections of the forum. let's put it this way- wing's posts -that i've read- have all been well thought out, articulate and informative. i doubt that the admin team would have singled him out of the crowd to pick on his threads. by the same token, i can understand wing's frustration on the issue.
i guess we'll have a "fair" situation when we are all pissed off with the outcome ;)

_Wing_
19-03-2004, 02:21 PM
I will wait for vti-2's reply.

Rowie
19-03-2004, 02:25 PM
I think the point has been made on both parties, and wynode has made it quite clear.

wynode
19-03-2004, 02:44 PM
he finds it unfair that u made the comment about legality in his thread...



Wing, like I said I did not mean to single you out with my comment.


Well joneblaze will be responsible for the marketplace from now on.......so consistency should be improved from now on (in regards to moderating the Marketplace).

wynode
19-03-2004, 02:49 PM
I will wait for vti-2's reply.

Is this between you and vti-2 or do you have something constructive to say in order to improve the forum? Because if its just between you two then I suggest you do it in private.

I'm waiting for a response from you in regards to this my Q above:


Wing,

List here (please don't start up an arguement) what you do not like and what you liked changed and I will look into it.

-Win

joneblaze
19-03-2004, 06:27 PM
Well joneblaze will be responsible for the marketplace from now on.......so consistency should be improved from now on (in regards to moderating the Marketplace).



...... :roll: *ahem*... you forgot to add the word "partly" in between the words "be" and "responsible".............. :)