do you crunch 3rd ? [Archive]

BLKEM1

23-11-2005, 09:37 AM

Could be syncro wearing out.....a friend's car never had probs before from 2nd -3rd (even he shift fast at over 6000+rpm), after few track days, it crunches from 2nd - 3rd all the time when he try to shift fast over 5000rpm, so he have to shift slowly now to avoid crunches....

Anyone has the same problem???

ITRBoI

23-11-2005, 10:23 AM

yeah me......samn problem with my itr

civiceg9

23-11-2005, 10:30 AM

try to change your gearbox and clutch oil first, it could be just dirty.
If that does not work it could be your sychro and you will need a gearbox rebuilt.

make sure u depress the clutch fully before a gear change :D

02ZZI

23-11-2005, 09:52 PM

when ever i thrash mine the only crunch i get is 1st to 2nd no other gears, then again i guess my engine isnt for racing nor shifting at extreme speed so i try not to anymore.

WANKFACTR

23-11-2005, 10:07 PM

mine crunches 1st-2nd when shifting between 3000-5000rpm so i have to either shift before 3000 or after 5000

[R]

23-11-2005, 10:12 PM

sounds more and more like worn syncros..

let us know EG5[KRT] when u get it checked up..

notorious_ahmie

23-11-2005, 10:16 PM

yeh same happend on my old gear box...most likely synchros are gone but get it replaced with honda OEM gearbox fluid b4 u change it...it could fix it up..it fixed my 1st to 2nd but not the 2nd to 3rd

DOCH16

23-11-2005, 10:40 PM

mine does the same when ever i go into 3rd, the only way i found to get it into gear without crunching was to double clucth 2nd to 3rd and rev match from 4th to 3rd
most likely syncro's are worn, but change ur MTF first with the MTF from honda,
know to solve problem, before u do a reco or new g/b. mine is too far gone for MTF change, crunches every time, im gettin new/used/reco g/b whatevers cheaper, anyone know prices???

EG5[KRT]

24-11-2005, 12:04 AM

yeah thats what i was thinking the synchros mite be ****ed .. i dotn think it would b oil coz if so all gears would crunch...

but yeah im not too sure yet .. will do the oil change first since im gonna do a service on it.. then if that dont solve the problem will do a clutch change and check the gear box out over the xmas holidays...

has neone heard of a civic with dog box ???

[R]

24-11-2005, 04:19 PM

lol yeh civic drag cars in the states...

Mugen_B16B

24-11-2005, 05:59 PM

my car does it, i think just take it easier, first thing i thought was the syncros :)

mr180sx

24-11-2005, 07:04 PM

i own a eg civic and crunches from 2nd to 3 rd as well

i just change gears slower and its alright

i think its the bearings or synros

EG5[KRT]

24-11-2005, 07:36 PM

im thinking it mite also b a selector fork ....

so im thinking xmas time ill strip bak the box and c what could b the problem.

mzc11v

24-11-2005, 07:56 PM

My 3rd crunches also...

buzz_civic

17-01-2006, 10:41 PM

mine also crunches from 2nd to 3rd... even up a hill, if i try and take it easy it still crunches.

huynh12345

18-01-2006, 02:03 AM

man my gearbox only crunches like hardddd when i chuck it from idol speed into reverse its gay badly

iamhappy46

18-01-2006, 12:08 PM

huynh12345: There are no synchros on reverse, so engage 1st gear before grabbing reverse and it should fix it.

EuroDude

18-01-2006, 12:24 PM

Yep sounds like synchros, used to happen with my civic but its fine now after a gearbox recond

huynh12345

18-01-2006, 02:47 PM

hey iamhappy46 soo i engage gear 1 ... then go into reverse ... and it will stop crunching till my gearbox dies
or do i gotta go from 1 gear to reverse?

iamhappy46

18-01-2006, 02:58 PM

Yeah, engage 1st gear before you grab reverse. It will line up the secondary gearbox shaft and stop you from crunching gears. Just keep the clutch in while you go from 1st gear, thru neutral and into reverse and it should be sweet

huynh12345

18-01-2006, 04:20 PM

cool =D very much appreciated

czy_sol87

18-01-2006, 07:53 PM

anyone know how much a G/b Rebuild usually cost or is it cheaper to get a second hand G/b?

EGB16A

18-01-2006, 08:00 PM

anyone know how much a G/b Rebuild usually cost or is it cheaper to get a second hand G/b?

depending on g/box, second hand is usually cheaper, however you still run the risk of buying a g/box that is on the way out

czy_sol87

18-01-2006, 08:02 PM

thanks for that u wouldnt happen to know how much a rebuild is would ya

iamhappy46

18-01-2006, 09:30 PM

Gearbox rebuilds are not for the feint hearted. Expect to pay a few hundred dollars for new bearings and synchros + labour for removal and rebuild.

notorious_ahmie

18-01-2006, 09:32 PM

just for bearings in one of the gears was like 500$ best off getting a new gearbox

Twincam16

19-01-2006, 01:22 PM

There is a special gearbox oil you can buy which stops crunching...

Had this problem on the old corolla C52 gearbox... and those who know about toyotas and gearboxes will know how good toyota boxes are...

Anyway, had crunching in almost every gear for a year, when one day was at the lights in sylvania near maccas, changed from nuetral to 1st, and BANG, ceased up!...

funny thing was, we somehow engaged 3rd, and drove down king georges road, non-stop at 4am, red lights and all (thank god the camera'd ones were green) all the way home...

Ill get the name of the gearbox oil for you...

czy_sol87

19-01-2006, 06:00 PM

thanks man might try that before i get a whole new G/B

Twincam16

19-01-2006, 09:58 PM

Ok try this,

1 - Check your clutch & master slave cyls for any leaks etc (transmission fluid as well - thick & green shit). If they need topping up, then top them up. Try it again. Still doing this? next step...

2 - Does your clutch feel tacky? when you push the clutch down & up does it feel like you are hitting any weak spots while it moves? This might be something to do with the Hydraulic clutch lines. not too sure on the crx as i just bought one myself, but common sense would tell me its either a fluid or cable problem, which would affect the clutch from engaging and causing a crunch. If this is what you feel check with a mechanic or even better a honda dealer. If they say it is damage synchro's, which it probably will be, next step.

3 - Chuck in some Redline MT90 (equivalent motul b16a gearbox oil).

4 (Last resort, Crunching like crazy) - You could also add Automatic gearbox oil (which is thinner - more friction -> slows down synchros quicker) which will fix the problem completely, but is only temporary, as it will end up wearing the gears & synchros at a much faster rate. Like i said, this is only when it starts to get REALLY bad, like in my corolla situation, and you need to hold out for the next couple of months due to lack of funds or your just a tightarse, this is a technique used by weekend track racers, who go break gearboxes on a regular basis...

Personally, id get some redline oil (If there is a suitable one for these weak boxes!), chuck it in there, and if it gets worse, start to double clutch (honestly). Take it easy on the +5500rpm changes in these, as its either the gearbox or clutch that feels the pain...

mrwillz

19-01-2006, 10:11 PM

myn only gets crunching in reverse
all other gears seem fine

civ_sik

19-01-2006, 10:25 PM

omg read the convo, reverse do not have syncros thus it will crunch most of the time.
to avoid this engage 1st and then goto reverse and it wont happen....

mrwillz

19-01-2006, 10:30 PM

acknowleged
i kinda jumpd from page 2

Twincam16

20-01-2006, 09:07 AM

Yeah, engage 1st gear before you shift into reverse, as its best to line up the two gears before changing. Most FWD are like this.

iamhappy46

20-01-2006, 09:50 AM

Most RWD gearboxes do not have a Reverse Gear synchro either...

I wish Holinger would make a sequential 'D' or 'B' series gearbox so that we could slam every gear home and not have to worry about synchros ;)

http://www.holinger.com.au/product_page.php?command=Shopping

Twincam16

20-01-2006, 02:45 PM

Cant see it happening anytime soon... Holinger is mainly about drag & hd boxes which are capable of handling very high power figures, and monster torque...

It wouldnt be worth them to R&D a box for a high hp fwd, lets say civic or corolla, unless the racing scene grew larger. Its just not worth it for them, why go to all the trouble for a gearbox that will only sell 100 units a year if that!

There are a couple of places that do dog-engagement swaps for honda's though...
Pfitzner (ppg) Australia makes one for the EK,EG & DC2 ... & i think Hillman makes a dog engaging set for the EK4?

But dont expect much change from $5-6000...

Not worth it even on racing scene, would be cheaper to custom fit a C58 supra gearbox onto your car! :P

edit: Rwd gearboxes arent as susseptible to reverse crunching as they aren't parallel/direct to the drivetrain, meaning there is a |_ compared to a <> force. On L-angle boxes (ie. rwd's), the diff is more succeptible to going bang, as it is the x-over point... unlike on a fwd which is more direct to wheels (which is why there is less drivetrain loss in fwd than rear most of time) and the shockpoint (x-over) isnt at diff but at the gears themselves. This is why fwd gearboxes crunch over time.

Basically, if the clutch doesnt slip on a dump/revving change, and your synchros are out, your gears will feel it much more than any rwd gearbox.

PIS01

23-01-2006, 05:33 PM

It sounds like syncro problem, but it is a big job and expensive labour to fix it. b4 to consider the syncro, should better check:

- anything block the clutch pedal, (eg car mat)
- change your gear knob to stock one
- if u ar using short shift, change it back to stock

sometime short shift or shorter gear know may cause crunch gear.
if the problem still happen
- try to change clutch fuel

finally, i f prob still there, should check the synco or just leave it. save $$
:arrowr: :arrowr: :arrowr: :arrowr: :honda: :thumbsup:

23-01-2006, 08:09 PM

my 3rd gear stopped crunching when i changed the g/box oil. use MTF yo!

Nuttz

24-01-2006, 05:55 AM

- change your gear knob to stock one

hahahah!!! really?? does the gear knob make that much of a difference?

coolson

03-02-2006, 02:05 PM

sorry. where can I get the MTF g/box oil? I have the same problem crunch from 2nd to 3rd gear! it hurts!

barefootbonzai

03-02-2006, 03:21 PM

sorry. where can I get the MTF g/box oil? I have the same problem crunch from 2nd to 3rd gear! it hurts!

Honda

Boban

03-02-2006, 09:54 PM

I only crunch my gears (1st->2nd and 2nd->3rd) when i'm shifting really quickly and at stopid rpm's (red light gp's), otherwise it's fine. And it's not only in my civic, i've done it in other cars too (my friends weren't too happy). Maybe i need to learn how to drive :D.
But than again what's the use of teeth if you can't clean them, can't find it, grind it :)

Richo

03-02-2006, 11:47 PM

Havent crunched in the civic...YET. Reading from page one it sounds like you might want to look into the synchros.

G-Stick

13-02-2006, 08:02 PM

i had the same problem for the last couple of weeks its killing me. and also sometimes in the morning my gears dont really want to go in like if i want to reverse its just not going in and same as gear one, but in the afternoon this problem isnt really there does anyone no how i can fix that?

ps. sorry for the hi-jackin EG5[KRT]

coolson

20-02-2006, 02:17 PM

I had my g/box oil changed to honda MTF. it still crunch from 2nd -> 3rd at high revs. however, if i double clutch from 2nd -> 3rd. it doesn't crunch at all. (it doesn't crunch before the oil change if i double clutch).

should i take it to repair? or should i wait until it get worse?

how much roughly would that cost to change all the syncros?

Saracen

20-02-2006, 09:52 PM

sometimes in the morning my gears dont really want to go in like if i want to reverse its just not going in and same as gear one

Let it fall back into neutral, clutch out, clutch in and try again. Should work.

Or an alternative, which is what I usually do first, pick another gear, put it in that then go back to the gear you wanted.

As for everyone crunching their gears. I don't want to sound like i'm insulting anybody's driving, but the most common problem is just being too hasty with your left foot. Make sure you've finished shifting the gear stick before you release the clutch. Try to go extra slow, even leaving a short pause between actions JUST to make sure.

Also, make sure you're pressing the clutch all the way in.

RMN15N

29-04-2006, 01:04 AM

yeah i have this same prob.. it just came up recently.. i was in 1st.. i gave it a feng. slamed it into 2nd
and ill i heard was CRUNNNNNNNNNNCCHHHHHHHHHhh.. then 2nd gear i took it up to 6,000rpm.. and slamed it into 3rd and it only had a littel crunch..
man tell you the truth . my heart sunk right then n there =(
how much is for fixing the syncro's? estimate

Sexc86

30-04-2006, 08:30 AM

Gday,
Yep same problem i crunch from 2nd to 3rd when im shifting at a quick or even moderate speed, only can aviod it by doing it slow, much slower..... :(

Hahaha
i blew up my 1st box, and then i went to "CHARLIES MOTORS" in brisbane, did a new box for me, charged me 1k!! for the one i have now that does these hardcore crunches from 2nd to 3rd. Wouldnt reccomend going to that wanker at all! i went back asking what the *** was going and, he just got strait on the defensive saying it was my problem and he didnt want anything to do with it!!

RMN15N

30-04-2006, 01:23 PM

ouch.. sorry to hear that man..

EK4R

19-05-2006, 08:33 PM

how much are synchros to replace?

sivic

19-05-2006, 09:25 PM

has anyone considered their engine/gearbox mounts before rushing in for a rebuild? this is one of the most common probs for crunching gears, especially if its more than one.
could also be linkage related.

coolson

22-05-2006, 09:04 AM

for some reason, if I double clutch from 2nd to 3rd gear it's never crunch. i have never crunch on low revs. but i have to double clutch when it is high revs.

sivic

22-05-2006, 08:43 PM

when your shifting at high rpm its usually cos you wanna get going fast so having to double clutch is gonna slow you down.
better to get it sorted than have to work around it.
first thing ppl should do is get gear oil changed. its suprising what a difference it can make. its also suprising how long some ppl go without changing it lol

EGB16A

23-05-2006, 12:37 PM

coolson

23-05-2006, 01:47 PM

true, i change mine with every 10,000km!!

I had a crunching problem, i changed my clutch and everything is PERFECT!

I have changed my gear box oil not long ago. but didn't fix the problem.

Clutch? clutch will fix the crunching problem? what clutch did you change?

I am thinking of changing the Exedy HD Sport Organic Clutch.

Any comment on that?

EGB16A

23-05-2006, 01:56 PM

I have changed my gear box oil not long ago. but didn't fix the problem.

Clutch? clutch will fix the crunching problem? what clutch did you change?

I am thinking of changing the Exedy HD Sport Organic Clutch.

Any comment on that?

thats exactly the clutch i got, and a exedy lightened flywheel too :)

That clutch is awsome to drive with, its easy enough for daily, and holds power so much better than stock.

I'd recomend it to anyone whos after a new clutch

Int3gra-T

23-05-2006, 02:24 PM

my gear box is currently cruching every time on the fifth gear
its due to the sychros and mesh wearing out
ive been quoted to fix it
880 inc labour...
not cheap mannn
but its not a easy job
they gotta take the gear box out which requires taking out a lot
of sh*t just to get to it...
anyhow... double clutching seems the go atm until i get the money to fix.

coolson

23-05-2006, 03:47 PM

thats exactly the clutch i got, and a exedy lightened flywheel too :)

That clutch is awsome to drive with, its easy enough for daily, and holds power so much better than stock.

I'd recomend it to anyone whos after a new clutch

you have upgraded the flywheel as well?

how much does that cost for the exedy HD sport organic clutch?

how much for the lightened flywheel?

how much for the labour?

My car is all standard. is that worth upgrading the clutch exedy HD sport organic? i just want more bite on the a pickup of traffic light.

czy_sol87

23-05-2006, 03:53 PM

you have upgraded the flywheel as well?

how much does that cost for the exedy HD sport organic clutch?

how much for the lightened flywheel?

how much for the labour?

My car is all standard. is that worth upgrading the clutch exedy HD sport organic? i just want more bite on the a pickup of traffic light.
its always good to upgrade the clutch, one of the most basic mods that everyone should start with,if u got the $$ might as well upgrade the flywheel, will give u that extra bit of acceleration, why do other mods to the car when the clutch will only slip, u noe what im sayin?

as for howmuch it will cost
clutch about $400-500
lightweight flywheel $500-600
install anywhere b/w $350-600
looks in the traders section they will have all the prices for u

RMN15N

23-05-2006, 03:55 PM

exedy hd clutches are about the 300 - 400 mark. somone correct me if im wrong..
the toda lightened fly wheel.. is about 550..
labours quiet abit.. so i recomend you do ur fly wheel n clutch at the same time.. because they pull the whole thing apart anyway..
and yes.. gettting the flywheel and clutch will give u a big bite outta the lights.. =) i am looking forward to putting the clutch and fly wheel in.. but.. i duno if its worth it if im gonna go for the b16a/b18c?
edit: i ment by spending money on my lil D series b4 i go vtec

sivic

23-05-2006, 04:19 PM

if you gonna do B series swap soon then dont bother with clutch/flywheel for the D. seeing as it comes up to over $1k inc labour you might as well wait till you doing a swap and do it while the new engine is out

coolson

23-05-2006, 04:21 PM

Mine is a stock EK4. is that worth it for the clutch and flywhell upgrade?:confused:

Surrufus

23-05-2006, 04:21 PM

i was crunching most gears unless i was careful... found out id completely destroyed my clutch :)

da_doc

23-05-2006, 04:37 PM

my reverse sometimes crunches.. or dosent go into gear.
is that normal??

coolson

23-05-2006, 04:43 PM

my reverse sometimes crunches.. or dosent go into gear.
is that normal??

i heard that you need to shift to the 3rd gear first before putting into Reverse. and it's something to do with the synco as well.

anyone can correct me if i am wrong.

bigjo5

23-05-2006, 08:47 PM

yeh this problem is common for hondas.. alot of civics has this problem.. usually due to the syncromes worn out... but some pplz say by using different gearbox oil can make it go away but havent tried..

nugget666

23-05-2006, 08:52 PM

my reverse sometimes crunches.. or dosent go into gear.
is that normal??

try putting it into a forward gear. Ie first or 3rd.
or try giving the car a quick rev to say 2k.

EGB16A

24-05-2006, 01:37 PM

you have upgraded the flywheel as well?

how much does that cost for the exedy HD sport organic clutch?

how much for the lightened flywheel?

how much for the labour?

My car is all standard. is that worth upgrading the clutch exedy HD sport organic? i just want more bite on the a pickup of traffic light.

from memory

clutch = ~$450
flywheel = ~$650
labour = ~$450

My car is near standard (only afew bolt ons) and IMO it was worth every cent. Trust me, you'll love the HD organic!! The lightened flywheel is well worth it aswell. Don't expect a massive increase in acceleration, how ever, responsivness off the engine is largly increased, and your accelleration mid rev range is improved nicely.

coolson

24-05-2006, 01:42 PM

from memory

clutch = ~$450
flywheel = ~$650
labour = ~$450

My car is near standard (only afew bolt ons) and IMO it was worth every cent. Trust me, you'll love the HD organic!! The lightened flywheel is well worth it aswell. Don't expect a massive increase in acceleration, how ever, responsivness off the engine is largly increased, and your accelleration mid rev range is improved nicely.

Does the clutch feel harder compare to the stock clutch? Because my girlfriend may drive it some time.

czy_sol87

24-05-2006, 01:45 PM

it should feel harder than stock, but shouldnt be too hard to drive

EGB16A

24-05-2006, 01:55 PM

Does the clutch feel harder compare to the stock clutch? Because my girlfriend may drive it some time.

Its a little firmer, but pushing the clutch in is not going to be the problem for your girlfriend. However, she might have a little hassle with the take up of the clutch, until she gets used to it. It can be a little bity at first. Then again i don't know what sort of experience your g/f has with driving.

bottom line - She'll be able to drive it, it might just take a while for her to get used to it, and the same prob goes for you aswell. Its nothing a little trial and error can't fix, and i guarentee you, if you get one YOU WILL STALL IT, and if people are around, they WILL laugh.... LOL :)

Twincam16

24-05-2006, 02:02 PM

just do slower shifts... and rev-match

coolson

24-05-2006, 02:22 PM

Its a little firmer, but pushing the clutch in is not going to be the problem for your girlfriend. However, she might have a little hassle with the take up of the clutch, until she gets used to it. It can be a little bity at first. Then again i don't know what sort of experience your g/f has with driving.

bottom line - She'll be able to drive it, it might just take a while for her to get used to it, and the same prob goes for you aswell. Its nothing a little trial and error can't fix, and i guarentee you, if you get one YOU WILL STALL IT, and if people are around, they WILL laugh.... LOL :)

LOL:) I am sure people will laugh at me haha..

RMN15N

24-05-2006, 02:56 PM

LOL.. so cruel ..yeah HD clutches are hard at first.. u'll get used to it buddy

bored

28-05-2006, 09:26 PM

try using nulon additives

sivic

28-05-2006, 09:41 PM

dont use nulon.....
its just a patch up solution which doesnt actually fix anything. if anything it just prolongs the damage.
if you gonna fix something do it properly

nos3d

30-05-2006, 12:43 AM

crunching gears means your syncro is blocking up and not releasing properly, you dont have to rebuild the whole box just the gear that crunches, normally you screw them up by not shifting properly eg: pushing the clutch in half way and throwing the gear in before your clutch has fully released, i have a euro version of holden vectra and i screwed up my third gear syncro all they did was reconditiond the 3rd gear syncro and it didnt do it anymore, but if u crunch its the syncro. but i have a crx aswell now and i put in a dog box so i dont have that problem at all

bored

31-05-2006, 12:00 AM

dont use nulon.....
its just a patch up solution which doesnt actually fix anything. if anything it just prolongs the damage.
if you gonna fix something do it properly

well if you have the money to recondition your g/box then go for it
if not then use nulon

Surrufus

31-05-2006, 10:56 AM

here's the problem:
"granny shifting and not double clutching like you should" lol

yeh i was going to have a Exedy HD clutch fitted but i was screwed over by the guys i was buying it off and then another dude ordered in the wrong part twice

ive driven a couple of cars with a very heavy clutch, giving you very little movement with the left foot, it just takes time to get used to it, dont just drop it, ease is out really slowly, then when you've gotten used to the clutch you can start to shorten and quicken your clutch work

farkmedead

12-10-2012, 05:04 PM

Drifter995

13-10-2012, 02:45 PM

My 2nd crunches... but that's cause the syncro is ****ed. Happens in a '77 car that's been through two L and P platers. I do crunch 3rd sometimes, but only when I'm slamming it in gear >.>

Adamjoeldavis

14-10-2012, 08:58 PM

The clutch must be worn out cause thats happening to mine too, i had my car sine 134K kms and now it done 180K kms and its starting to crunch and i never changed the clutch yet. And can you hear your thrust bearing?

DC2-PWR

14-10-2012, 09:21 PM

This happens to my dc2 with b16 y21 box, 2nd to 3rd crunches 90% of the time, even when I take it slow. It's smooth as butter when I shift without clutch when the engine is off though. And it only happens for 2nd to 3rd. All other gears are smooth. I'm thinking it's synchro due to the other gears being fine?

It could be other minor/major things as well
Engine mounts - better mounts make a hell a lot easier to shift
Gearbox oil - Honda MTF is the best for daily use
Clutch bled properly (No air in the lines)

My old gearbox use to crunch 3,4,5. I changed the oil to OEM Honda MTF and I never got one issue since that day, massive relief.