[Euro] Comptech Icebox + Pod Filter

[Chris_F]

After hearing about an idea baboo once had (to use a pod filter in the comptech ice-box) i did a bit of digging around and came across this picture...

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4735/1010135img8le.jpg

As you can probably tell it's just the stock air box with a cone filter fitted but surely this means it's possible to do to comptech icebox aswell. In theory i think such a setup could out perform the injen intake especially with the fog light cover removed. Basically you'd get the benifit of the filtering surface area of a cone filter, 'rammed' cold air induction from the icebox funnel and wouldn't have to worry about hydrolock.

I think if i end up getting a cold air intake this is the path i'll take...

any thoughts?

[Peekay34]

I honestly don't see what advantage this would have at all in a Comptech box. Just buy a good panel filter like ITG. Pod filter in this enclosed box does not compute to me, unless it was using a better breathing systen. Pod filters as far as I am believe should be fully exposed so they breath better.

[Euro Ricko]

A sealed pod filter setup can be very effective if there is a good flow of cold air. I think that fully exposed pod filters have to much access to hot air.

Have a look at the size of the enclosed space that this pod is in

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=29169&highlight=G%26D+Pod+filter

and thats for 5.7Litres of air hungry LS1 motor.

IMO the setup you are thinking ofwould be an improvement, and if fully sealed with nothing but cold air coming in, the difference would be quite noticeable.

[Tobster]

From what I've read, besides the funnel, it's the bigger airbox itself that makes the difference to induction. If you fill your box with a bigger filter, wouldn't you negate the effect of the bigger box? (i.e. the amount of air in the box overall won't be any different unless there's enough air being fed into it.

Basically, all you're creating is an SRI that's shielded from sucking in hot air from the engine bay.

Since the Comptech Icebox still uses the stock box base, if you really want to try this, you'd probably be better (i.e. cheaper) fitting your own ducting to the stock box.

With the same box and duct, I just don't see how a pod filter would be any advantage over a panel filter as it still won't be able to suck in any more air.

The V8 example above just uses a heat shield which looks like a box to close off the filter from the engine bay -- the pod is still completely open underneath where is can draw more air. In fact, it looks very similar to the GruppeM intake that's available for the Euro.

[Chris_F]

From what I've read, besides the funnel, it's the bigger airbox itself that makes the difference to induction. If you fill your box with a bigger filter, wouldn't you negate the effect of the bigger box? (i.e. the amount of air in the box overall won't be any different unless there's enough air being fed into it.

Basically, all you're creating is an SRI that's shielded from sucking in hot air from the engine bay.

Since the Comptech Icebox still uses the stock box base, if you really want to try this, you'd probably be better (i.e. cheaper) fitting your own ducting to the stock box.

With the same box and duct, I just don't see how a pod filter would be any advantage over a panel filter as it still won't be able to suck in any more air.

The V8 example above just uses a heat shield which looks like a box to close off the filter from the engine bay -- the pod is still completely open underneath where is can draw more air. In fact, it looks very similar to the GruppeM intake that's available for the Euro.

If the lower section of the box was completely sealed and the fog light cover removed wouldn't the pod filter effectively be bombarded/rammed with cold air? at any speed above say 40km/h. Unlike a lot of setups using a pod filter this setup would probably rely less on sucking because of this?

Another reason why a pod filter may be of benifit is beacsue of it's added surface area for filtering. To the members that have an icebox, if you ever feel like testing this sort of setup out (maybe just borrow the pod filter off a mates car) i'd be really interested to see what you think.

[eurotrash]

"If the lower section of the box was completely sealed and the fog light cover removed wouldn't the pod filter effectively be bombarded/rammed with cold air? at any speed above say 40km/h. Unlike a lot of setups using a pod filter this setup would probably rely less on sucking because of this? "


I may be wrong - but I thought the volocity of air coming into your engine was limited to the induction stroke? - So you can only increase the amount of air by reducing the temperature-increasing density- thoughts?

[Chris_F]

I may be wrong - but I thought the volocity of air coming into your engine was limited to the induction stroke? - So you can only increase the amount of air by reducing the temperature-increasing density- thoughts?

that's a good point, but if the air is being rammed into a cramped space and as a result less sucking action is needed to draw in the air, wouldn't effectively more air be drawn in as it's needed?

i'm not really to sure on this myself...

[aaronng]

Depends on the engine. For the K24a2, Hondata found that there was not enough air going into the engine at above 6000rpm. The induction stroke was wanting more air than the intake system+throttle body could supply.

[Tobster]

You'd probably get some "ram effect", but I would think that generally the engine will still be sucking to a good extent -- it's no small volume of air that's going through... And you can still only force so much air into a small space.

I wouldn't have thought that the greater surface area of the pod will be of much help -- only if the flow of air needing to pass through can be increased. You can have all the surface area you want but if no more air is going through than would flow through a panel then it's not going to make any difference.

[eurotrash]

Chris_f - You brought this up - now we are all interested - so its YOUR responsability to install & dyno....;)

[yfin]

that's a good point, but if the air is being rammed into a cramped space and as a result less sucking action is needed to draw in the air, wouldn't effectively more air be drawn in as it's needed?

i'm not really to sure on this myself...

I agree with Peekay - I am not sure what benefits you will see with a pod in the box.

As for "ram effect" - I think it is a myth for the Euro :rolleyes: Without going into details - I have tried some tests with RSM/G Sensor over various increments eg 60-100etc in 2nd gear (and a few different ones). Whether I have the fog cover removed or not makes neglible difference (virtually identical records). Perhaps higher speeds might help - but at least up to 100kph it appears to be the same.

[Chris_F]

Chris_f - You brought this up - now we are all interested - so its YOUR responsability to install & dyno....images/smilies/wink.gif

if i become convinced it's the best solution i might just do that.


I agree with Peekay - I am not sure what benefits you will see with a pod in the box.

As for "ram effect" - I think it is a myth for the Euro images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Without going into details - I have tried some tests with RSM/G Sensor over various increments eg 60-100etc in 2nd gear (and a few different ones). Whether I have the fog cover removed or not makes neglible difference (virtually identical records). Perhaps higher speeds might help - but at least up to 100kph it appears to be the same.


Yea i'm having my doubts on such a setup now for the reasons some members have pointed out so far...

But still, no one has tried with a pod filter yet and even though the fog light cover was removed in your tests it may be the panel filter that is the major bottleneck (to my knowledge the more surface area a filter has the larger amount of air is able to be drawn in.

The benifit of the Injen is it's ability to draw in cold air which is done by locating the filter outside the engine bay. Because the air has to travel a greater distance before it gets to the engine i think it'd be more restrictive in some ways. Surely by having only cold air reaching a pod filter that is inherently less restrictive then a panel filter and is also closer to the throttle body (less restrictive once again) there would be some significant benifits?

Such a setup would probably end up costing me a similar amount to an injen intake (i'm going to the states in a month and will probably buy one of them) so it's not a cost thing. I'm hoping that this sort of setup will give all or maybe only fractionally less high end gains whilst maintaing all of the bottom end.

A CAI is great and all, but i don't like the idea of sacrificing power in the low end for the sake of a peak number, i'd much rather a broad powerpand... maybe gruppeM is the answer? but maybe the setup suggested in this thread is aswell?:D

[yfin]

But still, no one has tried with a pod filter yet and even though the fog light cover was removed in your tests it may be the panel filter that is the major bottleneck (to my knowledge the more surface area a filter has the larger amount of air is able to be drawn in.


But if you look at that picture and imagine in your mind that pod filter rolled flat - how much larger would the surface area be comapred to the Icebox panel filter? That pod filter is quite small (a proper panel filter goes edge to edge in the box - unlike the OEM panel). I am not sure a minute difference in surface area makes a huge difference. All sorts of things can impact the amount of air drawn in - including filter material/quality, etc.

I agree with you in terms of short ram - it is the best for power in short spurts (eg 1/4 mile runs) as it is less restrictive - but once you have heat soak it is crap. And we all know how hot it gets in the Euro engine bay.

[Chris_F]

But if you look at that picture and imagine in your mind that pod filter rolled flat - how much larger would the surface area be comapred to the Icebox panel filter? That pod filter is quite small (a proper panel filter goes edge to edge in the box - unlike the OEM panel). I am not sure a minute difference in surface area makes a huge difference. All sorts of things can impact the amount of air drawn in - including filter material/quality, etc.

I agree with you in terms of short ram - it is the best for power in short spurts (eg 1/4 mile runs) as it is less restrictive - but once you have heat soak it is crap. And we all know how hot it gets in the Euro engine bay.

That is true about the picture i posted, the surface area would probably not be significantly more than a good sized panel filter. Perhaps a larger dual cone filter such as the BMC could be fitted in the comptech icebox though, given it's larger size? Or maybe it'd be better to simply fabricate a larger plastic housing to accomdate a large pod filter?

I'm just not convinced by the intakes currently available on the market (the more popular ones i know of anyway).

Does anyone have pictures of a race prepped tsx or euro's engine bay to see how they've configured there intakes?

[yfin]

That is true about the picture i posted, the surface area would probably not be significantly more than a good sized panel filter. Perhaps a larger dual cone filter such as the BMC could be fitted in the comptech icebox though, given it's larger size? Or maybe it'd be better to simply fabricate a larger plastic housing to accomdate a large pod filter?

I'm just not convinced by the intakes currently available on the market (the more popular ones i know of anyway).

Does anyone have pictures of a race prepped tsx or euro's engine bay to see how they've configured there intakes?

This beast is a start!

http://www.kensairacing.com/racecars.php?car=Acura%20TSX

But seriously Chris - the law of diminishing returns comes into play. It is not as if we are seeing anyone with a particluar type of intake on the Euro/TSX achieve significantly better 1/4 mile times compared to other intakes available. The times people are achieving are similar regardless of cold air type - whether it is Injen/K&N/Icebox - low to mid 15s is about right. I think the best you can do is install an intake and then focus on other mods (eg Hondata). You can only achieve so much with the intake side of things.

[Chris_F]

thanks for the link!



But seriously Chris - the law of diminishing returns comes into play. It is not as if we are seeing anyone with a particluar type of intake on the Euro/TSX achieve significantly better 1/4 mile times compared to other intakes available. The times people are achieving are similar regardless of cold air type - whether it is Injen/K&N/Icebox - low to mid 15s is about right. I think the best you can do is install an intake and then focus on other mods (eg Hondata). You can only achieve so much with the intake side of things.

wise words - i'm just exploring all possible options given this will be my first "power mod" :p and if i'm gonna do it i wanna do it right.

[Tobster]

Also, remember that high 15s are what's quoted for a stock set-up.

A lot of it comes down to how you drive and the type of driving you do -- as well as how much noise you like and how many dollars you think a few tenths of a second are worth...

[Chris_F]

that's true. I'm hoping that once i get my clutch and lightweight flywheel it'll only take a couple of power mods (intake, header) before i'm in the high 14's, very low 15's - what do you think guys, possible?

[yfin]

that's true. I'm hoping that once i get my clutch and lightweight flywheel it'll only take a couple of power mods (intake, header) before i'm in the high 14's, very low 15's - what do you think guys, possible?

low 15s is realistic - not so sure about 14s without ECU. That said no one on the forums in Aus has tried the lightweight flyweel so by all means give it a go.

[Chris_F]

at the very least i'll do a 0-100 test. My previous best was a fairly rough stop watch timed 7.9 with a passaenger and some stereo equipment.

but hopefully i can get it on the drag strip at some stage (i'll probably wait untill i have an intake).

I find it suprising that the lightweight fly-wheel and clutch isn't more popular, i'll do up a semi-in depth review once i've got it installed.

[albii]

its funny how everyone talks about intake....but the truth is that they are all pulling roughly the same times no matter which one we use.
has anyone played with spark plugs and leads?
chris..that pic with the pod in the box raises one question.
wouldn't there be alot of turbulance in the box as some of the air will get to the pod while some will miss and collect behind?
cant be good for smooth acceleration.
this is why i think a good panel filter or the comptech icebox is the best.

[Chris_F]

albii, turbulance might be an issue. but if the pod filter is placed in an adequately sized box it should be minimized to a point where it makes negligable difference.

stumbled across this on http://www.velocidad-maxima.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2681



Hybrid Cold Air Short Ram Intake


http://www.team-integra.net/images/BAEC1978-D3A7-4405-AB2D-2761DC15A96D/articles/surferx/comptech.jpg

Mugen pioneered the hybrid short ram/cold air intake system for the Integra. Comptech made a general copy of the Mugen CAI with their Icebox however you get to keep your air conditioning unlike with the Mugen CAI (heh, how nice of them).

The hybrid intakes utilize the efficiency of a short ram intake while putting cold air into it. The air filter is sealed in a larger unrestrictive airbox which is directed downward to suck air in from near the turn signal, allowing cold air to come through it's short ram intake. This design is arguably the most desirable as it provides the best of both worlds and is used by many competition race cars. The box design also gives somewhat of a pressurized intake charge so there is almost no hesitation in getting air to your engine and low to midrange gains will be improved because of it.

Advantages:
-High efficiency, cold air intake design gives good power gains throughout the RPM spectrum.
-Decreased risk of water ingestion.

Disadvantages:
-Absolute peak HP may not be as high as with regular cold air intakes on otherwise stock motors.
-Might not be as loud as you like your intakes to be.

i'll keep posting what i find on this sort of design...

[euro77]

This beast is a start!

http://www.kensairacing.com/racecars.php?car=Acura%20TSX

But seriously Chris - the law of diminishing returns comes into play. It is not as if we are seeing anyone with a particluar type of intake on the Euro/TSX achieve significantly better 1/4 mile times compared to other intakes available. The times people are achieving are similar regardless of cold air type - whether it is Injen/K&N/Icebox - low to mid 15s is about right. I think the best you can do is install an intake and then focus on other mods (eg Hondata). You can only achieve so much with the intake side of things.

fark!!! :eek: I want that ARC intake!!!
I wonder where they moved the battery to, most probably the boot.

[Tobster]

Looking at that pic with the Arc again, and then thinking about the earlier V8 pic, I wonder if it's not actually a big airbox, but an insulated heat shield (which might be covering the battery as well) which may have a pod filter under it like an SRI...

Just a thought...

[Chris_F]

Tobster i'm pretty sure that the big red thing with ARC written on it is actually the filter? a battery needs wires and theres no wires running into that box

[Tobster]

Yeah, it does look like an enclosed airbox and there's definitely no battery...

Just chucking ideas about...

[Dru42]

sorry to revive the thread.

But has any1 tried it?? as i was thinking of putting a pod into the stock airbox with a ramed pipe. ive been out of the performance/modding scene for so long ive forgoten a few things. as im taking out the resonator box thing tomorrow and thinking of doing it thens. plus would it roar in the box? as id love the induction sound

any help would b awsome. plus i wouldnt mind hearing how a euro sounds with induction. any1 in bris wanna take me for a short drive? :D

[aaronng]

sorry to revive the thread.

But has any1 tried it?? as i was thinking of putting a pod into the stock airbox with a ramed pipe. ive been out of the performance/modding scene for so long ive forgoten a few things. as im taking out the resonator box thing tomorrow and thinking of doing it thens. plus would it roar in the box? as id love the induction sound

any help would b awsome. plus i wouldnt mind hearing how a euro sounds with induction. any1 in bris wanna take me for a short drive? :D

The stock box is too small to fit a reasonable pod.

Here is mine: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53595

This is what it sounds like:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WbJiFuYCnLA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=svB6onZb3-c
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q19wN4fWFqs

[Dru42]

thanx aaronng!!! ghetto style hehe

i guess ill just take out the res box only tommlows thens

[BusterSonic12]

off topic

helping my ffriend to install a comptech in a week's time, it should be easy enough since i done it myself before. BUT the resonator, aaron, u helped me to removed that so can u mayb send me a pic of where the bolts are so i can do it myself this time?

[BusterSonic12]

has anyone tried this pod in comptech icebox yet? wanna know how good it gets LOL

[aaronng]

off topic

helping my ffriend to install a comptech in a week's time, it should be easy enough since i done it myself before. BUT the resonator, aaron, u helped me to removed that so can u mayb send me a pic of where the bolts are so i can do it myself this time?

if you are taking off the bumper, you can't miss it. It's on the front, facing the left of the car. Just look at the resonator and take off all 3 bolts on it that holds it to the chassis.

[BusterSonic12]

if you are taking off the bumper, you can't miss it. It's on the front, facing the left of the car. Just look at the resonator and take off all 3 bolts on it that holds it to the chassis.

it's 04 base model, so no need bumper remove

[aaronng]

it's 04 base model, so no need bumper remove

Then just jam your arm all the way up the fog light opening and feel for the bolt. It's about 20cm up and 8-10cm to the left of the opening.

[Dru42]

tried today n couldnt get the bumper off :( think i broke a clip n a spare screw which isnt good haha

but managed to get half the res off and did a short ram intake and sounds awsome!!!! loving it, need to get a new clamp n pipe tommlows n should be all good

[aaronng]

tried today n couldnt get the bumper off :( think i broke a clip n a spare screw which isnt good haha

but managed to get half the res off and did a short ram intake and sounds awsome!!!! loving it, need to get a new clamp n pipe tommlows n should be all good

You should take off all the clips and screws before you pull.

[Dru42]

the clip broke wen i pulled it out n do i have to take off the foglights n headlight water thing??

[aaronng]

the clip broke wen i pulled it out n do i have to take off the foglights n headlight water thing??

ohhh, that clip. Just get spare from the dealer.