new shell OCTANE 100

[lspower]

Hi there,

HAs any one tried the new octane 100 fuel by SHELL. I have tried it. but I dnt want to be biased or anything. Someone tells me its better for high compression engines eg 12 plus. but some tells me that if your car is tuned on higher octane regardless of compression(to a point). It should still gives more power???

The new octane 100 justb released last week at certain SHELL station. :wave:

[wkdteg]

i dont believe there is a real point in spending that much money extra on petrol when our cars were tuned to use 92ron fuel. considering that most regular and premium unleadeds r 95+, payin 10c+ a ltr in my opinion is a waste
cheers

[heist]

so you have tried it?

how was it?

[bennjamin]

moved to teh tech lounge

Ive heard numerous info about this fuel - such as it is 100RON + 5 % ethanol mix... and that it is only good for hondas of 98 + ~ anything below ( or that is made to use unleaded) could be damamged by such fuel ?

[civiceg9]

Here is what DJR says
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=au-en&FC2=/au-en/html/iwgen/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/au-en/tailored/shell_for_motorists/fuels/extreme/extreme_motorsport.html

If your car is an import or runs on high octane I think your car will perform at peak like he said.

I think for most AUDM cars it will be only be smoother, more consistent delivery of power and torque, better econmy and a much clearner burn. Without tuning your engine to take advantage of the 100octane, I doubt you get or feel the extra 2hp from your engine. It will probably feel like a new engine oil change. :p

U also need to burn more Ethonal to get the same power, so I don't think I will get any extra mileage. Ethonal is not good for pre 2000 cars as Honda listed.

[BLKCRX]

its unreal fuel ;) very very very good ;) all wil be explained soon on www.whichfuel.com

Regards James

[ian]

good for motorcycles???..........i might give it a try.

[lspower]

ok....I have tried it on my LS but with after market chip claimed tuned on 98 ctane. When i switched back to octane 95. I can FEEL it, that the car runs less meaner. When I switche d to 98. The power gain what noticed.
So my compression is only 9.2.1.

Yesterday I added 100 ctane. I felt more gain than 98. thast why, YOU MUST tried it first and let me know....

[aaronng]

I'm waiting for the whichfuel report too! But to me, this fuel will benefit cars with a turbo more, as they would be able to maintain high pressures with less chance of pre-ignition.

[IN73GZ]

i currently have to use 98octane coz i have advanced timing on my 91 Integra, will using this new petrol help me or will it be bad???

[lspower]

my timming advance on distributor had already setting at 1mm from max. Not only that, my ecu had chipped with "power chip" alike from USA-PR4--more advance..
With 98 ctane fuel I still can hear a ping when I DELiBERATLY testing fith at 1200 rpm. But with octane 100. I DNT hear that no more. By the way I find octane 100 makes my engine a LITTLE LOUDER.....IT sounds right but am still doing more trials this week.

[lspower]

where is every one??

[fly_vti]

my timming advance on distributor had already setting at 1mm from max. Not only that, my ecu had chipped with "power chip" alike from USA-PR4--more advance..
With 98 ctane fuel I still can hear a ping when I DELiBERATLY testing fith at 1200 rpm. But with octane 100. I DNT hear that no more. By the way I find octane 100 makes my engine a LITTLE LOUDER.....IT sounds right but am still doing more trials this week.



are your rpms higher then normal with the new fuel? is that why its louder?

[aaronng]

It's the 25th and whichfuel.com still hasn't updated... :(

[lspower]

My ecu revs to 7500 just the same with 98 octane. But it seems the power band can strench a bit longer as compared to 98 octane where the power drops at 7100rpm.

I am sure this is a positive effect.

[Limbo]

Combustion will be more complete producing more power with the higher octane rating that's why your engine sounds alittle louder.

Only thing is where the hell did everyone get it from??? my Local shell doesn't have it yet????

[aaronng]

Shell Pagewood has it. There is a list of Shell stations with it on the website.

[VT3C]

NO FAIR NO FAIR NO FAIR !!!

we even 'ran out' of BP 98 the other week - had to use vortex and shell premium (95.8RON) and man with my JDM motor, it was ratty to say the least.. ohh how I wish we had 100RON over here in Perth :(

[mrwillz]

i read in todays car guide. dick johnson sed this fuel is top stuff.
only for high performance engines that can be tuned.
dunt think this fuel is recommended for daily drivers wif nominal mods.

[h22a accord]

i cant wait to put a tank in my accord which is tuned for jap fuel!

[civ_sik]

quick question.. so would a jdm b16b benefit?

[h22a accord]

i reckon it would. try it.

[aaronng]

This is a damning article on E5 and E10 on yesterday's Carsguide... http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/story_page/0,8269,17340947%255E21822,00.html

[Chris_F]

i just filled my euro up with this stuff tonight... verdict is still out on it. The engine seems a bit louder and possibly with a bit more power. I haven't found it hugely different to bp ultimate so far tho

[SLPJCooL]

This is quoted from the FCAI Website regarding the use of E10 fuel on Hondas


All Honda vehicles should use the fuel recommended in the Owner's Manual.

The following models will operate satisfactorily on E10:
Insight - 2004 onwards; Civic range (including Civic Hybrid) - 2004 onwards; S2000 - 2004 onwards; CRV - 2003 onwards; MD-X - 2003 onwards; Accord & Accord Euro - 2003 onwards.

Honda does not recommend E10 for other vehicle models because there may be drivability issues.



So I guess my EK will be sticking to BP Ultimate!

[dhdevil]

u know it :P

[jklo]

Victoria



Site Location
Coles Express Ashburton Cnr High St & Johnston St Ashburton VIC
Coles Express Burwood Cnr Burwood Hwy & Central Ave Burwood VIC
Coles Express Cheltenham Centre Dandenong Rd & Warrigal Rd Cheltenham VIC
Coles Express Ferntree Gully 1140 Burwood Hwy Ferntree Gully VIC
Coles Express Richmond 399–411 Punt Rd Richmond VIC
Coles Express St Albans Cnr Station Rd & Main Rd West St Albans VIC
Coles Express Vermont South 602–604 Burwood Hwy Vermont South VIC



New South Wales and ACT



Site Location
Coles Express Dickson Cnr Antill & Badham St Dickson ACT
*Coles Express Carlton 277–281 Princes Hwy Carlton NSW
*Coles Express Darlinghurst 47 Flinders St Darlinghurst NSW
*Coles Express Dundas Cnr Kissing Point Rd & Kirby St Dundas NSW
Coles Express Fairfield Cnr Polding St & The Horsley Drv Fairfield NSW
Coles Express Green Valley Cnr Cowpasture Rd & Green Valley Cartwright NSW
Coles Express Hurstville 39 Forest Rd Hurstville NSW
Coles Express Kingsford 48–56 Gardeners Rd Kingsford NSW
Coles Express Kirrawee Cnr Princes Hwy & The Boulevard Kirrawee NSW
Coles Express Lidcombe 18 Parramatta Rd Lidcombe NSW
*Coles Express Marsfield Cnr Epping Rd & Culloden Rd Marsfield NSW
Coles Express Neutral Bay Cnr Ben Boyd Rd & Ernest St Neutral Bay NSW
Coles Express North Ryde Wicks 96 Wicks Rd North Ryde NSW

* Shell Optimax Extreme will be available at these service stations by the end of 2005.



South East Queensland



Site Location
*Coles Express Albany Creek 171 Old Northern Rd Albany Creek QLD
*Coles Express Balmoral Cnr Oxford St & Hawthorne Rd Balmoral QLD
Coles Express Caloundra 69 Beerburrum St Caloundra QLD
Coles Express Kallangur Cnr Anzac Ave & Duffield Rd Kallangur QLD
Coles Express Kessels Rd 651 Kessels Rd Mount Gravatt QLD
Coles Express Milton 319 Coronation Drv Milton QLD
*Coles Express Runcorn 501 Compton Rd Runcorn QLD
*Coles Express Sherwood Cnr Sherwood & Oxley Rds Sherwood QLD
Coles Express Surfers Paradise 2824 Gold Coast Hwy Surfers Paradise QLD
Coles Express Virginia Cnr Sandgate & Robinson Rds Virginia QLD

[Limbo]

great most are still far away....

Btw.. guys all your JDM engines will love it as 100ron is a standard fuel in Japan. And because we previous did not get the 100ron fuel they had to detune all our engines to run with the lower octane rated fuel here!

I still think that most cars will benefit just gotta try for yourself.
PS higher octane will not hurt your engine, just maybe your wallet!

[EK9]

^^ i reckon my b16b will luv this stuff. will try wen i remember to pump the stuff... will keep ppl posted.

[tRipitaka]

^^ i reckon my b16b will luv this stuff. will try wen i remember to pump the stuff... will keep ppl posted.
your b16b is gay

[aaronng]

Let me know if your B16b dies from the ethanol. JDM fuel has no ethanol. LOL.

[Limbo]

does the new fuel contain ethanol??? what about normal optimax?

[Terry]

From now on, Honda will not have any excuse to detune the HP of AUD spec Civic/integra:D

[aaronng]

Normal Optimax doesn't contain ethanol. But I have read a news article that shell is testing the waters with Optimax Extreme, and if the response is good, they will expand the use of ethanol to their other fuels.

[lspower]

kinsford shell station has got it. NSW AUSTRALIA

[Limbo]

Normal Optimax doesn't contain ethanol. But I have read a news article that shell is testing the waters with Optimax Extreme, and if the response is good, they will expand the use of ethanol to their other fuels.
bugger i don't like the idea of being a guinea pig for these fuel companies!

how much extra is the Extreme in relation to the standard optimax?

[Limbo]

ok did my reading from the stupid shell site now. So does anyone know if earlier pre 2003 honda cars are ok using 5% ethanol? I know the FCAI says that we can't use E10.

Stupid @*(#$@(#* Howard and his dumb E10 plan i hope his car blows up from using the E10 fuel so that he knows what the rest of us have to put up with!

[EK9]

Let me know if your B16b dies from the ethanol. JDM fuel has no ethanol. LOL.
Dang! Thanks for the confidence boost :rolleyes:

I'll give it a go anyway... let's see if my car will go faster!!! LOL... sif :p

[aaronng]

For the sake of keeping 98 octane ethanol free, I'll be one of those who boycotts any fuel with ethanol. hehe.

[edw-R]

I don't feel any different compare with ultimate and extreme. Maybe i am using stock ecu.

[lspower]

bugger i don't like the idea of being a guinea pig for these fuel companies!

how much extra is the Extreme in relation to the standard optimax?
2cents more-1.25 aliter compared to optimax. with my ultra economy shift i did 285 km in 22 liters. shift first at 2000 than skip to third then fifth. the octane 100 is really good because it never pings even at 1000 rpm at fifth floored. The car does not shake or so ever. Tyr the fuel first , if you dnt like it you can always switch back to your favourite.

[Limbo]

i would if i was sure it wouldn't ruin my feul seals

[lspower]

honda cars are safe up to 15% blend according to honda manual.....you should be right.

[aaronng]

honda cars are safe up to 15% blend according to honda manual.....you should be right.
Honda australia's list does not list anything older than a 2002 Integra that will run satisfactorily on 10% ethanol fuel. I'm sure the fuel lines would survive E10, but there are other seals throughout the engine, that might not be ethanol-resistant in the older engines.

Updated list of E10 compatibilities (25-11-2005)
http://www.fcai.com.au/ethanol.php/2005/11/00000005.html

[DomenEK]

I just filled up my EK1 Civic with Extreme. I wasn't completely empty, so I won't notice any difference (if any) for a little while. I'll reset mu ecu when the tank is about 3/4 full, because by then all the 98RON Ultimate should have been used.

I'll post how it goes...


**EDIT:

If it stuffs up my engine, I'll use it as my excuse to convince the missus that it needs a new engine *cough* B18c *cough*

:D

[lspower]

e5 is safe for my old integra ls. but e10 would not allowed in austarlia unless we all managed to upgrade. remember, all patrol companies are aim to profitize, if there is a enough demand and support they will keep up. Like octne 95 has been deleted in Shell station.

[notorious_ahmie]

Dang! Thanks for the confidence boost :rolleyes:

I'll give it a go anyway... let's see if my car will go faster!!! LOL... sif :p

let us knoww what the outcome is...ill consider it after u try it hahaha

[V205]

Ferrari, who are sponsored by Shell, says they do not recommend the use of any fuel with ethonal. What more do people want??

[Limbo]

Yeah also Honda Australia is not recommending the use of ethanol like Aaronng states.
I'll only use the e5 if i'm 100% sure it won't ruin any of the fuel seals.

Only 2002 models up are able to use the e10.

BTW.. FYI Howard wants to allow all petrol companies the be able to use the e10 without having to label!

This govt is going to the dogs!

[vinhy]

e5 is safe for my old integra ls. but e10 would not allowed in austarlia unless we all managed to upgrade. remember, all patrol companies are aim to profitize, if there is a enough demand and support they will keep up. Like octne 95 has been deleted in Shell station.

Shell 95 has only been deleted from the stations that have extreme because of the amount of tanks they have at the site. the site would probably run 4 tanks so they had to get rid of one of the fuel to put extreme in. other sites still have 95.

anyway my brother has called up honda and they have said not to use it.

[lspower]

Ok. No luck for octane 95.
Anyway, after one weeks of using octane 100, not untill last 2 days. the car is running really good and mean. It feels like you want to take on any cars on the street. But I have to reserve that between fuel economy and safety.

Octane 100 does seem to clean up my engine pretty well and defiately a boost increase in performance. Again, we are still waiting for the report on"which fuel to use?".

My car is worth 5000$-6000$ in a good nic. I dnt worr about the seals...

[ROCKET]

i have used this fuel and i like it feels better more responsive and its only 4 cents more than optimax but i dont like the ethanol part of it so i prob will stick to optimax and only use extreme once every month or sumfin
i'll wait till i used it up and find out if it lasts longer than optimax but so far its very similar

[DomenEK]

This govt is going to the dogs!

Mate, this government went to the dogs a long time ago.....




Well, my EK1 feels a little bit more responsive after filling up with Extreme - only slightly though. But it could be due to the fact that we've had cooler weather here in the last few days....Seems alright so far.

[JasonGilholme]

ethanol will clean out all the junk thats in the bottom of your fuel tank and fuel lines so check your fuel filter after a while if you guys decide to use it. it won't cause you to have to change your filter twice as often its just the initial time you change over to it.

I've been readin up on it and everyone says its alright theres a lot of pros the only concern is with prolonged use and seeing if it damages engine parts.

I would be concerned about filters and injectors but apart from that i can't see any other things that may get effected.....maybe the pump.... dunno. but we'll see how it all goes.

jase

[Steer^Gimic]

Ferrari, who are sponsored by Shell, says they do not recommend the use of any fuel with ethonal. What more do people want??


chalk and cheese mate, chalk and cheese

ferrari motors has absolutely no relation a honda motor.

[Limbo]

Mate if you wanna clean out your fuel tank and injector i'd rather use injector cleaner and the Fuel Dr stuff as at least i know they are not causing any damage to my engine.

DomenEK - yeah govt went out ages ago but they seem to be getter worse this last yr. Some totally idiotic ideas.

Yeah Ferrari and Honda are in different leagues, their engine are totally different, thus fuel requirements are also different.

I'll wait for honda to give the ok before i use it. ALSO on the FCIA site honda only recommends new engines 2002/3 +, so i would assume they have been using different seals int he past, and only now using seals that can take the ethanol mix.

[metro]

i wasn't sure so i made the safe call and called Honda,
and they said not to use the new optimax extreme...thats enough for me :D
Shell Optimax is the go for my lude :D

[lspower]

i just rang honda at Roseberry. They didnot know about it whether it will damage or not.
They reckon, if the govenment said so. Let it be. I am going to keep my car for 2-5 years at max. So far so good. If the ethanol should damage the seal, its likely at 10% blend or greater..... e5 is fine.

[aaronng]

i just rang honda at Roseberry. They didnot know about it whether it will damage or not.
They reckon, if the govenment said so. Let it be. I am going to keep my car for 2-5 years at max. So far so good. If the ethanol should damage the seal, its likely at 10% blend or greater..... e5 is fine.
The list of E10 compatible cars are for E10 only. If you put E20 into the Aus spec ethanol compatible cars, you will still ruin the seals. E5 on your LS would be risky.

[A.G.System]

Think the problem is the amount of people that change from 98octaine to 100 blend and swear blind that it makes a difference is growing by the day.

BTW did you know that you can also gain a 2hp boost by adding Altezza lights to your Civic..... OR 15hp by adding a Mugen badge to the side.

I mean really people

99% of the crap you hear about these fuels is spread like WW2 propoganda...

Oh Dick Johnston swears by it.

Is this the same Dick Johnston that used to drive for the Ford SHELL HELIX team?

What a coincidence.

The government want to get people to use Ethenol because the fuel is cheaper to make but the can charge more because its "Better"

Stick with the Shell NON blended fuels
or to be really safe just use BP Ultimate (sure its only 98 but its not a blend or mixed with 1000's of additives).

just my 2c

[aaronng]

^^ I agree. My steering lock gives me more hp than the 2 extra octane points. :D

[lspower]

I found this site. and it shows e10 is the limit for pre 1980 vehicle. therefore e5 will have no effect on corrsions. ARE you driving an old 1980 civic???

www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/publications/ethanol-limit

Read the whole article and you will understand it better.

[IN73GZ]

i really dont know if its just me but i have advanced timing in my LS and i was told to run it with BP Ultimate as it is 98octane, i tried the Shell Extreme and the car seems to run a little smoother however i think i experience greater throttle response when running the Ultimate???
can any suggest why i would experience this or could the difference be too little for me to pick up???

[lspower]

you must read the article above I provided. It expains all.

[metro]

wow i also found that taking my number plate holder from my prelude increases my power by 4 KW... :D j/k

[incoming]

i poured optimax extreme E5 last night to test it out...

the pull to red line feels smoother... and a bit slower...
engine bark isnt as loud...
i think i have to push it harder and see what the hype is about..

[Perry]

i poured optimax extreme E5 last night to test it out...

the pull to red line feels smoother... and a bit slower...
engine bark isnt as loud...
i think i have to push it harder and see what the hype is about..

what u mean by "and a bit slower"?

[aaronng]

Push harder? You mean you did not go full throttle?

[A.G.System]

you must read the article above I provided. It expains all.

What part of

http://www.deh.gov.au/includes/ssi/atmosphere/images/header-logo.gif

Did you miss?

Its just more propoganda released by the government to justify their new cause.

[A.G.System]

Also note that it was published in 2002 and that they use the following examples...

Brazil - A 3rd world country

United States - National Corn Growers Association

Europe - Transport fuel for farmers

Australia - the Sydney/Wollongong basin ...Nuff Said :p

They didnt use daily driving cars as their test sample unless you use Brasil. But if that was the case, we would also looking at having a carnivalle next year and our best samba schools are going to have to make floats and parade down Oxford Street................hmmmmm.

All in all it was to do with the "OIL SHORTAGE" and incase they lost the Iraq supply again.

Just stick to Non Blended 98

[aaronng]

Scandals scandals http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/aug2003/howa-a30.shtml

[lspower]

Thanks guys.
After 2 weeks of oct100, I am putting oct98 this morning just too see if i can tell the difference.
YES....its feels smoother......but less brisky.

Smoother means the ignition timming/map is more retarted than oct 100.
Usually you will find that more ignition advance/map means the engine will run a bit londer and briskier...DNT get confused with engine pinging.

I will put back to oct 100 tommorow as I know the oct100 is doing its job. I

[A.G.System]

So you completely drained out the fuel lines and changed the filters to do this comparison?

Dude you wouldnt happent to be a government agent or something that infultrates car forums to spread the gospel about the new ethanol blands and how great they are?

run your car for a week on one first
then refill with like $10 or 10l of fuel and test.
then fill your car with ethanol blend and run that for a week
then once again refill with $10 or 10l and test.

and by test i mean do some 1/4 mile comparisons, dyno power tests etc.

Otherwise what your saying holds as much weight as someone saying that you can tell the difference between the type r and std civic gear ratios, and the type R turned out to be faster but it was nothing to do with the fact that the b16b was a better engine ...it was all the gearbox ratios*.

*note the sarcasm being the fact that they use the same gearbox and ratios.

[lspower]

I use my fuel till last 3 liters..where almost hit the empty mark. I am very sensitive to my car since I GTEC it all the time in the past. Oct 100 is the way to go. Its only a e5 blend not an e10 blend. I know on the www.fcai.com.au that E10 is for honda 2004 model above. Therefore, we can not say that e5 not safe for 2004 before.

One thing is we must have efi model to run e5, the old 1986 model cabburator...is not suitable...
I am not an gov agent, but rather a Honda enthurist...but I am a chemical back ground, thats why I know e5 will not damage your car. Its too diluted. Its loke put 2 drops of sulphuric acid in a cup of water....and its safe to drink..but if you had 20 drops...it will burn your mouth...haaaa. I hope this helps. By the way my ecu is tuued for optimax 98..therefore the p4 ecu is still good for ajusting the ignition timming when I swapped back to optimax 98. I enjoyed the performance difference.....

Good luck guys...

[aaronng]

Imagine if you drank that diluted sulphuric acid everyday. You wouldn't die from poisoning or corrosion, but you would find that you get more mouth ulcers than usual. I'd say, if you are willing to live with the unknown longevity of the seals running Optimax extreme, then go for it. It could be that ethanol does nothing even if we run for 15 years on E5, and those of us who are holding back would have missed out on a good thing. It's all up to the individual. To me, I'm not supporting this sneaky way of introducing ethanol blend into our/car's diets. :)

[10KRPM]

i put this today in my dc2r.

If you see in the for sale section you can see what mods i have done to the car. Basically its a 32degree day here in brisbane and the car drives like even smoother with the extreme fuel. At first feel it is def worth putting into the car. Even more so if the car has been tuned for 98. I feel in this heat the extra octane gives a slighty larger margin against detonation. If i was keeping the car and every shell had the stuff then i would have the power fc retuned for it.

[jamchen]

have putted it on the MDX and yes it does make the engine sound smoother and the throttle is more smooth as well... the car usually have some filtering noise from the engine even for RON 98,.. but extreme got the noise gone...
and swaped back to 98 RON ( optimax) and the noise reappeared again...
so yeah i would love to have extreme again~~~

[10KRPM]

Ok tonight i took the car out for a good strap. And yes its confirmed it even more......the car loves the extreme fuel.

[b20b]

Pay someone enough money and they will promote anything (dick )

I KNOW A FEW GIRLS THAT LOVE DICK:wave:







Some things to think about below


To many car manufactures recommend not to use it
I also think that the fuel company would have spent a lot of money to change their plants to make this fuel. So they would do anything to get you to use it.
I also think that HONDA and other car companies would have been told that this fuel is on the way so still no real TYPE R . If this is a performance fuel will we now get the performance cars to, prob not, since the performance car maker we already have there cars in Aus say don't use it (Ferrari)

If the fuel is good why don't the V8 supercars (which use optimax) change to extreme ( yes i know they will have to re tune)

[lspower]

we have to wait and see the big super cars...as time gets by....higher octane will introduce eg 102..103..104. But we still need to keep some low octanes for some older cars and "affordability".

Thank you for reading this.

[A.G.System]

we have to wait and see the big super cars...as time gets by....higher octane will introduce eg 102..103..104. But we still need to keep some low octanes for some older cars and "affordability".

Thank you for reading this.


Written and authorised by the People For John Howards Dodgey Fuel Propaganda

I mean seriously dude have you asked them about becomming an official spokes person instead of Dick Johnson?

[EfiOz]

If the fuel is good why don't the V8 supercars (which use optimax) change to extreme ( yes i know they will have to re tune)

They've already announced the changeover

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/news/latestnews/newsdisplay.asp?Ind=M&gid=21502

I can't believe that young people can sound like such a pack of old farts!

[b20b]

forgive us for being a little sceptical on this new product. With what I have read there is a bit of a mixed responce to this fuel. (i prob have not read enough missed the v8 announcement)

now where's my slippers :D




They've already announced the changeover

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/news/latestnews/newsdisplay.asp?Ind=M&gid=21502

I can't believe that young people can sound like such a pack of old farts!

[Omotesando]

How come some people using Extreme with E5 will notice a more noisier engine whereas some seem to think it is smoother? :D


Actually I'm quite surprised that people felt a power difference going from Optimax to Extreme - may be the power increase was from the E5 and not from the 2 more RON resistance to knock? haha!


But seriously, I don't even trust myself when it comes to seat-of-the-pants, all I will trust is the dyno or at the least the maximum g-force I pull in my G-Tech in a certain gear. Which unfortunately is sitting at a friend's house so I haven't tried it yet.... :(


Have now used Caltex Vortex (95- or 96?), Shell Optimax 98 and Shell 95 so far, all of them doesn't feel that different to me. Note I'm not saying there is no gains/losses just that I couldn't feel it. I got to try Mobil Synergy 8000 next, now you can buy $5.0 of stuff and get the 4c/Litre off. So basically, its like getting $5.0 of free stuff everytime you fill up :D

[bizee_1]

i tried Optimax Extreme, and it "seems" to make a slight difference in power, but more of a difference in economy, not much, but enough to notice. Not enough to justify the price difference though. My car uses a JDM engine, but was tuned to Mobil 8000. Maybe a retune to Extreme 100 might make more of a difference.

[notorious_ahmie]

yeh same bro my mecch said to use it cause my eng is JDM as well..and over there supposdly high octane..when i do my tuning of the ecu ill tune it extreme..but still want to find out if there is any cons about it

[lspower]

good work to efioz. Yes I have tried the vortex...but the fuel economy is not as good as optimax. The oct100 perhaps is nosier for "bolt on" modifications or after market ecu like mine. Some cars has more restriction on how far the ecu will ajust the fuel ratio/ignition timming. Generally speaking the more smoother means a more ignition timming retard.
I even tried on mercedez E200 with the octact100, and it seems sharper and more response. And that the current 2005 september model. I do not hold any biased view but just for mine own modified LS and E200 Benze.

[Creative]

2nd tank fillup today and I can feel more torque in the lower rev range (under 3000rpm) which the prelude lacks. Its not HUGE, but it is noticeable :)

Don't know if I should be using the stuff, but the car seems pretty smooth now. Although I was using BP Premium for the past 3 weeks since they ran out of Ultimate - So maybe the difference will be bigger going from 95 or less rather than 98....

My 2 cents :)

[lspower]

good work

[Alpine]

2nd tank fillup today and I can feel more torque in the lower rev range (under 3000rpm) which the prelude lacks. Its not HUGE, but it is noticeable :)

Don't know if I should be using the stuff, but the car seems pretty smooth now. Although I was using BP Premium for the past 3 weeks since they ran out of Ultimate - So maybe the difference will be bigger going from 95 or less rather than 98....

My 2 cents :)

The following is direct from the Honda website. It doesn't specifially mention the Prelude but it does say on the bottom that it has not been tested hence there is a risk.

Ethanol

The following Honda vehicles may be operated using fuel containing up to 10% ethanol (E10):

http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/woman_filling_car.jpg
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifAccord
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2003 onwards

http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifAccord Euro
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2003 onwards


http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifCivic (including Hybrid)
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2004 onwards


http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifCR-V
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2003 onwards


http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifIntegra
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2002 onwards


http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifJazz
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2004 onwards



http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifMDX
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2003 onwards

http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifOdyssey
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2004 onwards



http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/blip_black.gifS2000
http://www.honda.com.au/buying+a+honda/spacer.gif2004 onwards




Other Honda vehicles were not designed or tested with E10 and therefore the long-term effects are not proven.

Ethanol contains less energy value than petrol. In theory, some loss of power and fuel economy (possibly 2-3%) may occur when using E10.

For further information, please refer to your vehicle owner's manual, or telephone the Honda Customer Hotline on (freecall) 1800 804 954.

[Omotesando]

Man you guys make me want to try a tank soon!

I was actually thinking if it is possible the Ethanol made the car running a bit more leaner than usual, hence the power increase?

I've always noticed that running some particular higher octane fuel the car runs richer during dyno runs, although low throttle is always balanced out to around 14.5 to 1 by narrow band O2 sensor... I would imagine the LATTER is responsible for the increase mileage with higher octane fuel since they have high calorific value (higher density) and as such the ECU will use less of it during cruise mode.

Don't think it'll affect full throttle that much though if you know what I mean.

[Limbo]

you o2 sensor is ignored on full throttle so yeah it will still pump the same amount of fuel no matter what unless it knocks then it will retart

I'm gonna boycott until i find out it won't screw up my car

[Omotesando]

Limbo - well in some cars the ECU and the O2 can still detect and work together over a longer term to try and adjust even full throttle air fuel ratio but not really sure on the Hondas.. I always thought Honda's run pretty good already from what I've seen on the Dyno Graphs, mid 12's more or less. Any leaner and you lose instant throttle response and increase heat, although there's slightly more power as well..


Well I think my next few tanks is going to be Extreme 100 - hopefully won't stuff up the Euro ! Wish me luck :D

[aaronng]

But seriously, I don't even trust myself when it comes to seat-of-the-pants, all I will trust is the dyno or at the least the maximum g-force I pull in my G-Tech in a certain gear. Which unfortunately is sitting at a friend's house so I haven't tried it yet.... :(


Have now used Caltex Vortex (95- or 96?), Shell Optimax 98 and Shell 95 so far, all of them doesn't feel that different to me. Note I'm not saying there is no gains/losses just that I couldn't feel it. I got to try Mobil Synergy 8000 next, now you can buy $5.0 of stuff and get the 4c/Litre off. So basically, its like getting $5.0 of free stuff everytime you fill up :D
The only problem with G-Tech testing is that you have a gap of a few days in between tests in order to empty your tank... :(

[todaek9]

anyone wanna start a BBQ session? this fuel gives me lots of flame..hahaha...

[lspower]

I am having my high school 20 year reunion this sat. I am also looking forward for OZHONDA to start a bbq for members-2005 prechristmass= lunch, for SYDNEY members. . I will support it.

[Omotesando]

The only problem with G-Tech testing is that you have a gap of a few days in between tests in order to empty your tank... :(



This is not a problem at all if it is not a 'timed' run also I'm ultra patient! - I was suggesting about max G-Force pulled during in gear acceleration, which gives a good consistent reading everytime as long as the G-Tech / G-Sensor in RSM is levelled correctly.


If the G-Tech meter has 3D X/Y/Z accelerometers and automatically calibrates and calculates even better.



i.e. when I was driving my S15 with small mods, but no ECU, full tank, at least 2nd tank of new fuel being tested (no point putting in 1 tank with remains of other fuel IMO?). Put Mobil Synergy 8000 in, consistently pulled 0.02G in 3rd gear more than Optimax 98 and BP Ultimate 98. Note this is std ECU.

When tuned with PowerFC, Mobil Synergy 8000 could take more timing as well, hence more power. I find Optimax 98 better than Ultimate 98 in Turbo car, I wouldn't be surprised if in the EURO Accord things would be different again?


We or I should say I just don't understand how the fuels work!!

Got to rely on the equipment to test!



The only issue with G sensor test with EURO is - not really sure if it is sensitive enough to pick up any differences between the fuels.

When the Synergy 8000 pulled barely 0.02G more than other fuels on the previous S15 200sx, it was obvious already from 'seat of pants'.




I honestly can't feel much between Vortex 95/96? (Vic) and Optimax 98. I THINK Shell Optimax 98 pulls very smidgetly better than Shell 95 though on the EURO... might be real, might be placebo effect haha! :wave:

[sleepyf1]

As long as it contains ethanol, I will not use it on my car. Even if it is safe to use, it is lower quality stuff. The gain in performance of the 100 octane will be offset by the 2-3% loss in performance and economy (as quote from Honda) of the ethanol

Give us the unblended 100 octane. It's called market segmentation. There are people willing to pay for better fuel, despite everyone's complaints about rising fuel costs.

[Omotesando]

Hey.... honestly I don't understand why we shouldn't use Ethanol blended fuel.


It has higher Octane level. (Yes I admit Shell shouldn't be selling Extreme more than Optimax 98, using Ethanol as a cheap Octane enhancer.)

The Ethanol component burns better, completely.

An Ethanol blend can give better performance due to above two reasons in theory, but also might not. I'd put it on a Dyno-machine before making conclusions.

Ethanol component burns cleaner. Less pollution.

Ethanol IS renewable energy.

Producing Ethanol from vegetations, even when considering processing and embodied energy, still ends up with final Ethanol product being energy positive. All cars should run on 100% Ethanol!


Ethanol at approx. 68% of contained energy level compared to regular petrol, when used at a 5.0% blend will only decrease fuel consumption at 1.6%. But only on theory and speaking purely in terms of embedded potential energy.

In real life, because Ethanol blended fuel will burn slightly better than regular Petrol, it might achieve same or even higher mileage when the ECU compensates for this. Again, road/dyno testing has to be carried out before making a conclusion.

No ECU adjustments on older cars however.

The only people who have done these testing namely V8 Supercar Teams seem to carry the consensus that they show positive results in terms of power. As for economy some tuning has to be done from my interpretation. Yes they're Shell sponsored, how believable can it be? Well it may just be that they're correct.

But then again the V8 Supercars are highly tuned.
Which might not apply to our cars, which runs different Air Flow Meter/ECU designs, cruise mode vs full throttle mode, etc.



ANYWAY - I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD DISCOUNT THIS FUEL YET, UNTIL FULL TESTING HAS BEEN COMPLETED.

Ethanol is the way to go for the future. But Shell I reiterate shouldn't be selling this fuel at higher price than Optimax 98 IMHO.

[ek4-guy]

one thing that is not mentioned above is the down side to using ethanol blened petrol. I have seen first hand the damage done over an over again in outboard motors. You see the problem lies with the alloy an lil plastic parts most commonly found in outboards and lawnmowers but also some newer car motors.it just litrally eats them away with corosion.
Another major factor we find with the outboards that would not be so noticable in cars. Is that most regular fuels last about a month an they so 2 months later when u run your boat it runs like shit. however optimax last upto 3 months stored we only tell people to use optimax

[Kawasaki]

Written and authorised by the People For John Howards Dodgey Fuel Propaganda

I mean seriously dude have you asked them about becomming an official spokes person instead of Dick Johnson?

I think the government has tapped your phone line and agents have now surrounded your house.

[doriemon]

btw any of u guys have JDM engines like, JDM b16a, b16b, b18c used it?
and how does it feel?

[aaronng]

If your engine was tuned for 100 octane originally, then Extreme should let your car run back at original timing. Using 100 octane over 98 won't give you a power boost. I think it's a placebo effect. But when you are using other mods such as turbos, upping compression and leaning out mixtures using a programmable ECU, then Extreme will help. The extra power comes from the mods, not the fuel. The higher octane will let you run with those mods without preignition.

[gxiang]

u guys tried the fuel from UNITED ? i duno if its available in other states but in MELB they have quiet a few.

united 95 wif 5% or 10% (i forgot) ethanol is 4cents cheaper than normal 91unleaded
they have boost98 also but thats same price as normal BP ultimate / optimax

[KWICKS]

one thing that is not mentioned above is the down side to using ethanol blened petrol. I have seen first hand the damage done over an over again in outboard motors. You see the problem lies with the alloy an lil plastic parts most commonly found in outboards and lawnmowers but also some newer car motors.it just litrally eats them away with corosion.
Another major factor we find with the outboards that would not be so noticable in cars. Is that most regular fuels last about a month an they so 2 months later when u run your boat it runs like shit. however optimax last upto 3 months stored we only tell people to use optimax

Yeah thats all true, but ethanol has more oxygen in it than ULP or PULP so its going to liberate more power as there is greater oxygen in the burn to encourage more complete combustion. If you are the type of person who only owns cars under warranty there is no issue for you as the corrosion will either take longer than 3 years to manifest or will be repairable under warranty anyway. Dodgy news for used car buyers, but I can see a market for it for new car buyers, especially as its cheaper.

If buying a car as a long termer I wouldn't use it without modification to the engine internals first. Holden sell cars to NZ with different alloy engine internals to combat corrosion from the ethanol blended fuels available in NZ. They cost more for this change, but the change ensures they don't fix warranty corrosion all the time.

[aaronng]

The oxygen in ethanol doesn't liberate into O2 form to produce more power. Ethanol doesn't act like nitrous oxide in combustion engines. You are burning ethanol directly, not producing O2.
C2H5OH + 3O2 --> 2CO2 + 3H2O

Every ethanol molecule is gobbling up 3 O2 molecules. And the combustion of ethanol gives less power than when burning pure petrol.

[drdrei]

The oxygen in ethanol doesn't liberate into O2 form to produce more power. Ethanol doesn't act like nitrous oxide in combustion engines. You are burning ethanol directly, not producing O2.
C2H5OH + 3O2 --> 2CO2 + 3H2O

Every ethanol molecule is gobbling up 3 O2 molecules. And the combustion of ethanol gives less power than when burning pure petrol.
Glad to see we're dealing with one of my favourite subjects -- Chemistry. :D

Ethanol, as you mention does not contribute it's bonded oxygen molecules to further enhance the combustion process. However, I fail to see how you come to the conclusion that because ethanol combustion (in the presence of sufficient oxygen) is gobbling up more oxygen than the most common compound in fuel, octane (formula C8H18) that it somehow reduces the ability of the fuel to act optimally.

One C8H18 molecule with ignite with
2C8H18 + 25O2 --> 16CO2 + 18H2O

Thus two molecules of octane will react with 25 oxygen molecules. Using your arguement, octane would be an inefficient fuel compared to ethanol (which we know is not the case).

What isn't being addressed here is that the combustion within an engine is not optimised for the least amount of oxygen consumption, but instead for the most amount of expansive force (to power each piston) per unit volume of fuel used.

This expansive force is provided via the combustion process by the fact that the products occupy more volume than the associated reactants, both by there molecular properties (octane is a liquid at room temperature, with high density compared to CO2 and H2O - steam - at high temperature) and the temperature change as a result of the enthalpy of reaction (basically, the reaction creates heat).

If we look at enthanol, we have a lower heat of combustion than octane. Also, ethanol has a lower density than octane at room temperature. Overall this results in a reduced density per unit volume of fuel to produce expansive force.

For more on combustion go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion)

[lspower]

Ok, guys,
I finally found the DYNO result using optimax vs 100 base on Hondata master-James.
Go to his site and it explains www.racefuels.com.au/dynodetail.

More etahnol will give no more power but rather a detonation agent(based on James conclusion). But 100 still will>98 in performance once tuned.

[lspower]

try www.racefuels.com.au

[zuiko]

DON'T GET CONNED!

RON - RESEARCH OCTANE NUMBER DOES NOT EQUAL MORE OCTANE OR MORE POWER!

The number is related to how liable the fuel is to auto-ignite under compression. Shell RON100 has achieved this reduced autoignitability by adding ethanol - a less energy dense fuel than octane.

It's a big con job.

It's true that if you tune an engine to a fuel which has a low auto-ignition property then you might tweak the engine's full potential power; but Shell - 100 adds nothing in and of itself and by diluting/blending with ethanol actually gives you an inferior product to pure petroleum distillates.


From Wikipedia...



Octane is measured relative to a mixture of isooctane (2,2,4-trimethylpentane, an isomer of octane) and n-heptane. An 87-octane gasoline has the same knock resistance as a mixture of 87% isooctane and 13% n-heptane, which does not mean that the gasoline actually contains 87% isooctane. It simply means that it has the same autoignition resistance as a mixture of 87% isooctane and 13% n-heptane. A low octane rating means that the fuel has a high tendency to autoignite, which is undesirable.

A high tendency to autoignite is undesirable in a gasoline engine but desirable in a diesel engine. The standard for the combustion quality of diesel fuel is the cetane number. A diesel fuel with a high cetane number has a high tendency to autoignite, as is preferred.
[edit]

Measurement methods

The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel through a specific test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing these results with those for mixtures of isooctane and n-heptane.

[Omotesando]

Regardless of what the chemistry and other things might or might not say - I am glad it has been proven that Optimax Extreme 100 is a better fuel than Optimax 98..... WHEN TUNED.

At least we got some data there :)

What I'm also interested in however, is whether there are gains when using this on an untuned NA car - like a Euro Accord. (Or a Turbo car.) Especially without using aftermarket computer to tune things.


Also how does other fuels like Mobil Synergy 8000 compare with Optimax 98 and Optimax Extreme 100, BP Ultimate, etc.


End of the day though, I have tried all these various fuels (except for Extreme 100) and they're all pretty much the same. Engine sounds different when running Synergy 8000 though, but unlike my previous Turbo car running this fuel - I couldn't really tell a difference between it and Optimax 98. I just use it anyway, because the engine sounds to combust a bit more better and I THINK there might be a lil bit of power in it.... but like AARONNG said it might just be my placebo effect lol.

[aaronng]

Ethanol, as you mention does not contribute it's bonded oxygen molecules to further enhance the combustion process. However, I fail to see how you come to the conclusion that because ethanol combustion (in the presence of sufficient oxygen) is gobbling up more oxygen than the most common compound in fuel, octane (formula C8H18) that it somehow reduces the ability of the fuel to act optimally.

I'm just debunking the myth that ethanol acts like nitrous oxide where it gives extra O2 molecules for combustion. It's a very common misconception that ethanol supplies extra oxygen for combustion. I was just illustrating that instead of providing oxygen, the combustion of ethanol actually consumes oxygen.

[Omotesando]

I embrace Ethanol as replacement fuel. :)