VTEC cams - 3 lobes?

[spetz]

I looked at some VTEC cams (stock ones) and noticed that they had 3 different lobes on.
2 seemed the same and one was obviously for high lift.

What's the deal with that? Or do the 2 lower ones have different duration, same lift and then the all out 5500rpm+ one?

[Farkis]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question229.htm , that should answer your Q

[spetz]

Thanks for that,
But I know how cams work, I was more interested in why VTEC cams have 3 lobes per valve?
I would only expect 2 (one for before, and after VTEC kicks in)

[Felix]

maybe one for secondaries of vtec........

[BiGANG]

it doesnt have three lobes per valve, it has 3 lobes per cylender. the two on either side are before vtec. then the fat one in the middle if for the vtec profile.

basically how it works is.. before vtec, the valves run off the two seperate rocker arms. then when the high pressure oil surges through the head a pin connects these two rocker arms and activates the more agressive profile.

dont know if that makes sense but i tried.

[Civic Type R]

Hope this helps..
http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec-what-it-is.htm


VTEC - What it is and how it works






VTEC (which stands for Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control) is an electronic and mechanical system in some Honda engines that allows the engine to effectively have multiple camshafts. As the engine moves into different rpm ranges, the engine's computer can activate alternate lobes on the camshaft and change the cam's timing. In this way, the engine gets the best features of low-speed and high-speed camshafts in the same engine.



DOHC VTEC
(http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec-what-it-is.htm#Anchor-DOH-44070)SOHC VTEC
(http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec-what-it-is.htm#Anchor-SOH-56867)SOHC VTEC-E
(http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec-what-it-is.htm#Anchor-SOH-5424)3 Stage VTEC (http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec-what-it-is.htm#Anchor-20878)




DOHC VTEC - Double Over-Head Cam VTEC
Honda first introduced the DOHC VTEC mechanism in 1989. The Japan Domestic Market got the world's first dose of DOHC VTEC in the 1989-1993 generation of the Honda Integra. The 1989 DA6 Honda Integra RSi/XSi used a 158hp variant of the B16A DOHC VTEC engine. However the B16A used in the current Civics is a second version of the original B16A. The main difference is that the newer spec B16A2 has slightly more power at 160hp.



http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/vtecmech1.gifLets see how DOHC VTEC works. The figure to the right shows a simplified representation of a intake-valve VTEC mechanism (the exhaust mechanisms work similarly). So for each pair of valves, there are three cam lobes. The two on the outside are low RPM lobes and the one in the middle is the high RPM lobe. The two low RPM lobes actuate the two valve rockers, which in turn pushes the valves open. The high RPM lobe actuates a follower, which is shaped like a valve rocker, but doesn't actuate any valves. The figures show the circular section of the cam lobes touching the valve rockers, and the eliptical section pointing away. Thus the valves are closed in this stage.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/vtecmech2.gifDuring low RPM operations, the two outer cam lobes directly actuates the two valve rockers. These low PRM lobes are optimized for smooth operation and low fuel consumption. The high RPM lobe actuates the follower. But since the follower isn't connected to anything, it doesn't cause anything to happen. This procss is illustrated by the figure to the right.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/vtecmech3.gif At high RPMs, oil pressure pushes a metal pin through the valve rockers and the follower, effectively binding the three pieces into one. And since the high RPM lobe pushes out further than the low RPM lobes, the two valve rockers now follow the the profile of the high RPM lobe. The high RPM lobe's profile is designed to open the valves open wider, and for a longer duration of time, thus allowing more fuel/air mixture to enter the cylinder. The improved breathing allows the engine to sustain its torque output as RPM rises, thus resulting in higher power output

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/dohcvtec.gif That is basically how VTEC works. The picture to the right is a picture of an actual DOHC VTEC engine. Note that there are two cam shafts, one for the intake valves and one for the exhaust valves. For each pair of valves, notice that there are three cam lobes: two cam lobes on the outside, and one cam lobe in the middle.

As I've said before. The VTEC mechanism is nothing spectacular. DOHC VTEC is the most ambitious of all VTEC varieties in terms of specific output (except for the up coming VTEC-i). Yet as you can see, the implementation is elegantly simple. VTEC is Honda's solution to the design goal of improving engine breathing at high RPMs while retaining smooth and economical operation at low RPMs. DOHC VTEC technology is currently used in the Accord Euro, CRX, Civic VTiR and Type R, Integra VTiR and Type R, Prelude VTiR, S2000 and the NSX.




SOHC VTEC - Single Over-Head Cam VTEC
After the sucess of DOHC VTEC engines, Honda became increasingly confident with the use of VTEC technology. It has proven to be a reliable and economical alternative to increasing displacement or using forced induction. Honda decided to apply VTEC technology to a larger segment of the market with the introduction of the SOHC VTEC system. Like its DOHC counterpart, SOHC VTEC optimizes the flow of fuel/air mixture for high RPM operation while maintaining smooth and economical low RPM operation. But due to its simpler design and humbler performance intentions, its specific output is not as high DOHC VTEC engines.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/sohcvtecmech.gif In a SOHC engine, there is a single camshaft per bank of cylinders. So both the exhaust and intake cam lobes are on the same camshaft. The figure to the right illustrates this design. The three cam lobes in the middle are the intake cam lobes. The two low RPM lobes actuate two valve rockers, which in turn pushes the intake valves open. The high RPM lobe actuates a follower, which is shaped like a valve rocker, but doesn't actuate any valves. While there are different intake cam lobes for high and low RPM operation, the same two exhaust cam lobes are used for all RPMs. The lack of cam profile changing for exhaust valves is the primary difference between DOHC VTEC and SOHC VTEC engines. Since the exhaust valves in a SOHC VTEC engine behaves just like a non VTEC engine, only the intake valves will be discussed below.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/vtecmech2.gif During low RPM operations, the two outer intake cam lobes directly actuates the two valve rockers. These low PRM intake lobes are optimized for smooth operation and low fuel consumption. The high RPM intake lobe actuates the follower. But since the follower isn't connected to anything, it doesn't cause anything to happen. This procss is illustrated by the figure to the right.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/vtecmech3.gif At high RPMs, oil pressure pushes a metal pin through the valve rockers and the follower, effectively binding the three pieces into one. And since the high RPM lobe pushes out further than the low RPM lobes, the two valve rockers now follow the the profile of the high RPM lobe. The high RPM lobe's profile is designed to open the valves open wider, and for a longer duration of time, thus allowing more fuel/air mixture to enter the cylinder. The improved breathing allows the engine to sustain its torque output as RPM rises, thus resulting in higher power output

The SOHC VTEC is a system that achieves mild power gains. Usually, SOHC VTEC engines gives about as much power as DOHC non-VTEC engines of similar displacement. Whether or not the added complexity of the VTEC mechanism off-sets the simplicity of SOHC (versus DOHC) is up for debate. SOHC VTEC is currently found on the Civic VTi and Jazz VTi/S.

[Civic Type R]

SOHC VTEC-E - Single Over-Head Cam VTEC - Economy

VTEC-E is a twist on the regular VTEC mechanism. Whereas VTEC's purpose can be more or less summarized as: extracting high RPM performance while maintaining smooth low RPM operation, VTEC-E can be summarized as: allow extremely lean fuel-air mixture at low RPMs in order to increase fuel economy. In other words, VTEC technology is used to optimize different ends of the RPM range in the two different implementations

First, some background information. Fuel is mixed with air and then combusted in cylinders to make torque. How much torque is generated is affected directly by how much and how well the fuel and air are mixed together. Less fuel and more air is called a "lean" mixture, the opposite is called a "rich" mixture. For low RPMs, a normal engine's intake charge velocity is low enough that the fuel and air are not mixed together very well. To make up for the sub-optimal mixing effect, a slightly rich fuel/air mixture (more fuel) is needed to maintain smooth operation. VTEC-E artificially increases the intake charge velocity, which creates a swirling effect inside the cylinder. This promotes a very good mixture of the fuel and air, thus allowing a lean fuel/air mixture to be used. The result of this is great fuel economy when running at low RPMs. Now lets see how VTEC-E works in detail.

Unlike regular VTEC mechanisms, there aren't any extra cam lobes in a VTEC-E engine. So each pair of valves works off of exactly two cam lobes. Since VTEC-E merely increases the low RPM intake charge velocity, it is a mechanism that only affects the operation of the intake valves. VTEC-E is found only in SOHC engines due to its economical intentions. All this means that we only have to look at the two intake cam lobes and the associated rocker arms and valves in order to gain a full understanding of VTEC-E.

http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/vteceintake.gif A non-VTEC-E engine normally has one single cam profile for the intake valves. A VTEC-E engine has two different intake cam profiles. At low RPMs, each intake valve works from its own intake cam profile. One of the intake cam profiles is very normal looking. The other one, however, is almost perfectly round, with just enough profile to it so that it pushes the valve open just enough to avoid pooling of fuel above the valve lip. Therefore at low RPM, only one intake valve is opening and closing. Most of the intake fuel and air are squeezed through this one valve, resulting in a good swirling effect in the cylinder. The swirling effect optimizes the fuel/air mixture, thus allowing a very lean mixture to be used.

As the RPMs increase, the demand for more fuel/air rises as well. Once a certain RPM is reached (approximately 2500RPM for the Civic VTi), the one-intake-valve configuration starts to become a significant intake restriction. At this time, a solid pin is pushed through the two intake valve rocker arms, thus binding the two rocker arms into a single unit. This causes both intake valves to open and close according to the normal cam profile, while the almost-round cam profile is no longer used.

VTEC-E is some times confused to be just another high-RPM optimizing mechanism like other VTEC variants. And there is some truth to this: since only one intake valve is used at low RPMs, the one normal cam lobe is made to open that one valve slightly taller and for longer duration than if both intake valves are used. At higher RPMs, both valves follow this same cam lobe so they are both opened slightly taller and for longer duration. This results in a slight improvement in high RPM breathing compared to non-VTEC-E engines and thus slightly more power. But make no mistake, VTEC-E is designed with economy as the primary goal, not power output.





3 Stage VTEC
All the work Honda has done on the VTEC mechanism are combined to make the 3-Stage VTEC system. It is not a rumor, the engine exists: D15B. The engine is used in Honda Civics in Europe and Japan. In short, it combines VTEC-E and SOHC VTEC to get both extraordinarily good RPM fuel economy, and excellent high RPM power. The D15B is a 1.5L engine that is capable of about 54mpg and is rated for about 128HP. There is no other engine that can boast such combination of good fuel economy and power output. To understand how it works, it is recommended that the reader becomes familiar with the DOHC VTEC, SOHC VTEC, and SOHC VTEC-E mechanisms. This article assumes as such.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/3stagemech.gif

Looking at Stage 1 above, we see that both intake valve rockers operate independently. And at this low RPM, only one intake valve opens and closes since the other intake valve follows an almost-round cam profile. The almost-round cam profile is designed to open the valve just tall enough to avoid pooling of fuel above the valve. This mechanism is just like the low-RPM operation of the VTEC-E mechanism, resulting in great low-RPM fuel economy.

Stage 2 in the illustration shows the mid-RPM range operation. Starting at about 2500 RPM, the first oil pressure is applied, pusing a pin to lock the two intake valve rocker arms together. Both valves now follow the same low RPM cam profile in their operation. Thus far the operation has just been like a normal VTEC-E mechanism.

In Stage 2 above, the second oil pressure is applied at about 4500 RPM. The second oil pressure pushes another pin through the valve rocker arms and a cam follower that is between the two valve rocker arms. The cam follower operates from the high RPM cam lobe so now both intake valves follow the high RPM cam profile. This is like the high RPM section of an SOHC VTEC engine.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/pages/linked/vtec/3stagepower.gif As seen from the power curve graph, each of the three stages has a distinct curve. And by choosing the switch-over points correctly, the optimal portions for the three stages can be combined into one curve. This level of low and high RPM optimization is unavailable from any other mass produced commercial engine.

It seems that combination of VTEC technologies is where the future lies for Honda engines. Already we are seeing this in mass produced US-spec Hondas: the J30A1 V6 used in Honda Accord V6s has a hybrid VTEC-E and SOHC VTEC system, though not a three-stage system like above. In this system, Stage 2 is not implemented. Only Stage 1 and Stage 3 are used: one intake valves open at low RPM, both intake valves open taller and for longer duration at high RPM.


Information and images courtesy Howstuffworks.com



Courtesy - © 2004 dohc-vtec.com.au

[JasonGilholme]

Nice Stuff ^^^^^

[Farkis]

thats from how stuff works check my link at top its the same as Civic type R's info

[DLO01]

Seriously there is heaps of info on VTEC and how it works, on the net. Have a try and search. :cool:

[spetz]

Ok I get it now...
I just thought it was very odd that it had 3 lobes for only 2 "stages"