Good Headers for DC2R

[ITR001]

anyone know or tested which is the best header for dc2r?

[incoming]

yeah the ones with a turbo hanging off it :)

sorry i just had to!

[VTEC16]

yeah the ones with a turbo hanging off it :)

sorry i just had to!

LOL....i here they make the best power too :D

[A'PEXi]

mugen lol :D

[UR2L8]

The best ones that you can get here in Australia are Toda, Spoon and Mugen. They are the best and also the "best" price :)
You really couldnt go wrong with either one of them.

[ginganggooly]

dave flood, hytech and smsp are probably as good if not better...

[UR2L8]

Yeah thats in America, but this is Australia mate. And they very good headers, probably just as good as Spoon and so on but never ever heard of them been sold here or seen them here.

[wynode]

Have a look at this (Dyno plots available):
http://bob123e.tripod.com/thegreatheadertest/

Baseline = 176 hp/119 tq

JDM Jun HP/TQ 186/ 138
JDM Spoon HP/TQ 187/ 138
JDM ITR 4-1 HP/TQ 185/ 137
Mugan mod. hytech HP/TQ 187/ 136
DC JDM 4-1 HP/TQ 187/ 137
Comptech 4-2-1 HP/TQ 187/ 137
JDM Toda HP/TQ 190/ 137
JDM Mugen HP/TQ 186/ 135
SMSP header HP/TQ 190/ 136
Type 1 HP/TQ 186/ 137
2.5" exhaust/test pipe HP/TQ 180/ 131

Found it first on jdmyard

[ITR001]

thanks guys, anymore opinions?

[ginganggooly]

Yeah thats in America, but this is Australia mate. And they very good headers, probably just as good as Spoon and so on but never ever heard of them been sold here or seen them here.

i realise that, mate. don't forget the fact that this isn't japan either.
it's not like spoon is made in australia. it's basically brought in because of a jdm fetish thats been occuring since best motoring and grand turismo started appearing on our shores.
fwiw, toda, dave flood, hytech and smsp are apparently superior to spoon.

btw, dave flood headers are made in australia. word has it that his are among the best that you can buy.

[UR2L8]

ginganggooly: Im not sure why they dont bring headers from USA like they do from Japan, maybe its due to the $dollar. And thanx for that pointer out that Spoon and that is made in Japan (i didnt know that) :roll: .

[ginganggooly]

i'm glad we understand eachother. :roll:

[Jim80y]

You can get Hytech or SMSP here, just be prepared for a very long wait. My money is on Toda or Spoon, I got Toda because it has way better ground clearance than Spoon and a lot of people have said how they can feel the Toda header has a beefier mid-range.

[TODA AU]

anyone know or tested which is the best header for dc2r?

TODA... Winner of the "Great header test"
$1375 shipped to you direct from Japan...
Email me if you want a set...

[mpd076-chuck]

Its hard to say what is the `best' header, it depends on your desired result. If you want a basic bolt-on for more top end get the JDM 4-1 for $800. If you want a basic bolt-on that gives you more power throughout the rev range, get the Toda for $1375. Don't expect a huge change though, you need a VAFC at the very least to make the most of any good header and preferably a fully tunable ECU such as hondata/PowerFC etc. In any case make sure it has a 2.5" collector and you will then need an appropriate flange and high flow cat to really make it worthwhile - add on about $350 for that.

Something like SMSP/Hytech or custom Dave Flood is probably only worthwhile if you are doing cams and raising the compression as they will then start to out perform the others and you get the value from then.

A quick fix for more power is to replace the the small part of exhaust between your stock header collector and cat. See http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1082/article.html for more detail. I did this on my car and it makes a decent but not huge difference.

[TODA AU]

you need a VAFC at the very least to make the most of any good header and preferably a fully tuneable ECU such as hondata/PowerFC etc.

Well said…
Though I’m no fan of the VAFC, on a MAP sensor'd engine management system, little is to be gained in fitting different intakes, headers & exhaust systems without a corresponding change in engine management.
Reason being the MAP sensor itself…
MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure
Intakes, Headers & exhaust systems make little difference to the actual pressure seen by the MAP sensors. As such, little or no gains are actually realised until the fuel & timing are altered to suit… Hence the popularity of the “Prince of Darkness” in the Honda tuning world.. The evil VAFC…
This unit, though it can be made to work, isn’t quite as straightforward as some people would have you believe…
It only works well with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator where the fuel pressure is increased slightly & the whole rev range is trimmed back…
Furthermore, the ignition timing at the distributor aught be retarded slightly as these units add timing when fuel is removed…
Don’t fool yourself into thinking more fuel can be added, as absolute fuel control is not in the equation…
Once the MAP sensor sees atmospheric pressure… That’s the most fuel you’re going to get… This generally occurs at WOT….
If you really must use a piggyback or interceptor…
Go for an E-manage every time of the Apex unit… Better still…
As mpd076-chuck said… Use a stand-alone, fully programmable engine management system such as Hondata or a Power FC…
Bare this in mind with all modifications that aim to increase power through increased volumetric efficiency… As your engine does not posses a mass airflow sensor so is unable to reap the full benefit of your components without appropriate engine management measures…
Hope this sheds a bit of light for some..
Cheers…

Point of note… The Uni-Chip is basically an Aussie VAFC as it works in exactly the same way… But rather than the end user being able to have a fiddle, it is left up to the dealer to tune…

[vti-2]

you need a VAFC at the very least to make the most of any good header and preferably a fully tuneable ECU such as hondata/PowerFC etc.

Well said…
Though I’m no fan of the VAFC, on a MAP sensor'd engine management system, little is to be gained in fitting different intakes, headers & exhaust systems without a corresponding change in engine management.
Reason being the MAP sensor itself…
MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure
Intakes, Headers & exhaust systems make little difference to the actual pressure seen by the MAP sensors. As such, little or no gains are actually realised until the fuel & timing are altered to suit… Hence the popularity of the “Prince of Darkness” in the Honda tuning world.. The evil VAFC…
This unit, though it can be made to work, isn’t quite as straightforward as some people would have you believe…
It only works well with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator where the fuel pressure is increased slightly & the whole rev range is trimmed back…
Furthermore, the ignition timing at the distributor aught be retarded slightly as these units add timing when fuel is removed…
Don’t fool yourself into thinking more fuel can be added, as absolute fuel control is not in the equation…
Once the MAP sensor sees atmospheric pressure… That’s the most fuel you’re going to get… This generally occurs at WOT….
If you really must use a piggyback or interceptor…
Go for an E-manage every time of the Apex unit… Better still…
As mpd076-chuck said… Use a stand-alone, fully programmable engine management system such as Hondata or a Power FC…
Bare this in mind with all modifications that aim to increase power through increased volumetric efficiency… As your engine does not posses a mass airflow sensor so is unable to reap the full benefit of your components without appropriate engine management measures…
Hope this sheds a bit of light for some..
Cheers…

Point of note… The Uni-Chip is basically an Aussie VAFC as it works in exactly the same way… But rather than the end user being able to have a fiddle, it is left up to the dealer to tune…

:thumbsup: for that info.

kind of off topic - you mentioned the Uni-Chip, is that all that bad? I've heard a lot of bad stories about them, many people say to steer clear of them. But they seem relatively cheap for what the tuners claim they can do.

[TODA AU]

kind of off topic - you mentioned the Uni-Chip, is that all that bad? I've heard a lot of bad stories about them, many people say to steer clear of them. But they seem relatively cheap for what the tuners claim they can do.

The Uni-Chip works in the same way as a VAFC does...
That is it doesn't have direct control over the ignition & fuel...
If affects the ignition and fuel by affecting the output of either the MAP sensor or the Mass Airflow Sensor, in much the same way as the VAFC.
Add fuel = remove ignition timing...
Remove fuel = add ignition timing...
All you are doing is rocking the map so to speak as to what the engine sees... Neither are true puggy back systems...
A true piggyback system like the E-manage controls the ignition system absolutely... That is it runs through it & is directly affected by it...
So to the fuel...
This is where systems like this get clever...
The add fuel by giving the injector an additional earth... thereby lengthening the injection pulse...
To reduce fuel they affect the map or airflow sensor in much the same way as the VAFC or the UNI-Chip...
The clever part comes when the ignition is automatically trimmed back to where it was before you affected the sensor output...
Moron level interceptors aren't capable of this... (Read as VAFC – Uni-Chip)
In the months to come you'll see Apex has seen the error of their ways & a unit similar to the E-manage is on the way...
Though these units aren't as good as a proper ecu...
If you never intend to increase your rev limit, they're basically the next best things...
Particularly with vehicles like the S2000 & a couple of other than Hondas…
(Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi etc also fall into this bucket…)
Back to reality though.... with regard to Honda's...
It is a bit more expensive to have an e-manage fitted & tuned than it is Hondata... Furthermore... It has fewer capabilities than what is offered by Hondata...

[wynode]

Add fuel = remove ignition timing...
Remove fuel = add ignition timing...

Why is that may I ask?

[mpd076-chuck]

Those posts by Toda_Au make the message clear - don't expect a good increase in power without adding decent engine management! Thanks Toda_Au, I never understood that about VAFC's before.

[TODA AU]

Add fuel = remove ignition timing...
Remove fuel = add ignition timing...

Why is that may I ask?

I’ll try & explain it in layman’s terms as best I can…
If you've tuned engines before with 3D software, you'll be more able to understand exactly what's going on... If not, it may be hard to visualise...
Ok…
Now, a MAP sensor output + RPM locate the engine on its ignition & fuel maps…
TPS is used for accelerator enrichment…
Using the VAFC as an example, you can’t add more fuel than the existing factory map will allow... But you can take fuel out…
You do so by affecting the sensor output & moving the point where the engine management system thinks the engine actually is and adjusts the fuel output accordingly…
But in doing this… Exactly the same movement occurs on the ignition map also…
Not usually to one’s advantage either…

[TODA AU]

Those posts by Toda_Au make the message clear - don't expect a good increase in power without adding decent engine management! Thanks Toda_Au, I never understood that about VAFC's before.

No problem...
Happy to help... :)

[mr dc2 vtecdu]

ive been told mugen,toda,spoon,buddy club ,obviously those names are up der but fo ma budget ima getting buddyclub header for ma dc2 $1200 4-2-1.

[VTECMACHINE]

I have Toda 4-2-1. I love them!!

There was an article on ASM (I think), a while back. The spoon headers, are just bored out stock headers.

Mugen's are good too apparently, but I have heard they sit veryyy low, and some have clearance issues.

[00dc2]

wot about Toda Vs Maximworks mbit headers?

anyone got any info? I have heard mbit headers are pretty damn good (And i've seen them and they look very good for what that is worth)...

[mku01]

mbit is shit, get xforce

[turbo convert]

2nd hand rs*r 4-2-1 if you can find them =)

[00dc2]

m yeah, xforce:rolleyes:

http://www.hondatech.com.au/toda-vs-xforce.jpg

[EKVTIR-T]

Pretty average numbers...
Plus not accusing but anyone could chop that text into the pic..

[joewalsh86]

Pretty average numbers...
Plus not accusing but anyone could chop that text into the pic..

Clearly the text has been put after the graph print out, but so what? Why would he lie? Graph looks pretty reasonable to me.

And average numbers you say? With the Toda headers and tune he gained upwards of 30kw atw over the Xforce and std ecu in the midrange around the 118-128km mark (from 75kw to over 105kw) - whats average about that? You wont get that sort of improvement on other 2 litre NA engines.

Toda as always:thumbsup: Tuner:thumbsup:

BUT - this thread is a recommendation for DC2R headers NOT DC5R headers, so the graph is slightly misleading in this context

[00dc2]

i have just not heard great stuff about xforce... unfortunately i didnt notice it was a DC5 dyno ply till too late :(

[mku01]

hey i was joking about xforce headers, i'm using maximworks myself and cannot be happier, 2nd opinion would be toda

[00dc2]

u know its very hard to sense when your joking on the net..

:)

i am currently leaning towards maximworks, but they dont have much info out there on web sites etc...

but i have not seen toda in the flesh to compare..

[EG5]

http://felixalim.com/MyR/BCexhaust01.jpg

stock dc2r header + custom axle back + CAI
VS
Buddyclub header 4-2-1 + buddyclub spec 3 exhaust + CAI

Both untuned on stock ECU.

[IZY-10]

http://felixalim.com/MyR/BCexhaust01.jpg

stock dc2r header + custom axle back + CAI
VS
Buddyclub header 4-2-1 + buddyclub spec 3 exhaust + CAI

Both untuned on stock ECU.
wow pretty impressive results

[xtercii]

how come the header and exhaust changed the peak power point of the car so dramatically on a stock ecu?

[00dc2]

when the header and exhaust dont flow well, inert gases from previous combustion explosions flow back into the combustion chamber and reduce the capacity to make power as less fresh air gets in via the intake.