soft or hard??

[pinklady]

hi all.

when a suspension wth damper adjustable be set low, which is best for the durability of the suspension.. to set it soft or to set it firm? cause when it is set low..there should be relatively less travel. will setting it firm means less travel needed since the suspension do not absorb as much as when it is set soft?

sorry if the 2nd part of the ques got confusing.. im confuse myself.

[bennjamin]

the lower the car goes the stiffer the damper should be methinks.
Also , user preference of "ride" is the deciding factor of what damper level you choose

[pinklady]

ya the lower the stiffer the damper will be i understand.

so my ques directs to... putting the comfortness of the ride aside, is setting the suspension sort better or hard better for the suspension? taking into account the reduce in travel as the sussy is set low.

[EK Civic R]

I don't think any of it matters..
Not to sure in other areas, but if your in Sydney not matter what the roads are really bad and it's not easy keeping the life of your sussy..

But in regards to your question I think setting it to low/soft is better in my opinion..
If it's on hard I think the shock from hitting holes and stuff puts more stress on the suspension.. I don't know this is always a confusing issue

[pinklady]

yea true EK_Civic_R, i thought the same too as when setting it soft will hav less stress on the sussy. but also..i was under the impression tat when it is set soft, and if there's reletively little amount of travel left..it hit the bumpstop easier than when it is set firm. ..?

cause when it is set firm..the ride should feel less spongy, and hence may use less travel?

am i on the right track?

[bennjamin]

yea true EK_Civic_R, i thought the same too as when setting it soft will hav less stress on the sussy. but also..i was under the impression tat when it is set soft, and if there's reletively little amount of travel left..it hit the bumpstop easier than when it is set firm. ..?

cause when it is set firm..the ride should feel less spongy, and hence may use less travel?

am i on the right track?

the suspension will feel less spongy and more firm ~ the shock will still have the same travel but is more restrained compare to "softer" damper- so under normal driving it should keep the stroke in a tighter range (smooth on flat roads but more bouncy on uneven surfaces/bumps etc) Just experiment with a piece of known road and the damper settings , and find out for yourself :)

[pinklady]

yea self experiment is a big help to my understanding.. i just like to know more and collect more opinions as to how it actually works. :)

wat i've felt. when soft..going over speedhump..it feels spongy and soft and the car will bounch lower (ie. when the car is low..more chance of scraping or hitting the floor). but i donno wat actually happens wth the sussy as i cant see wth bare eye. does it mean the stroke will have a larger displacement of moving up and down? like the sussy absorb more..and if the sussy has less travel..will hit the bumpstop?

when set firm..i find going over speedhump or uneven roads will make a louder noice..(like 'dong')..and feels its putting more stress on the sussy. and going over speedhump is less easier to scrape althought its firm and less comfy. so does it mean..as u said 'stroke in a tighter range ' and the amount of travel used will b less?

[bennjamin]

yup the normal amount of travel will be less the stiffer the spring or lower or stiffer the damper ~ to a degree.
From what ive experienced , the stiffer/lower you go , that "travel" ends up as force applied to the chassis of your car !

[pinklady]

the shock will still have the same travel but is more restrained compare to "softer" damper

yes amount of travel is depending on the height set.. hence still hav the same travel regardless of soft/firm, i get tat :)

let me try interpret it. say for example..if there's just 1 inch left of travel (just an example).. setting it the softest..will hav more chance of hitting the bumpstop, and setiing it firm will hav less chance of hitting bumpstop right? :)


thanks benjamin :) ..sorry i keep repeating myself so many times with different words :p

[bennjamin]

yup ofcourse ~ remember to shorten the bumpstops if lowereing significantly too :)

[pinklady]

how to shorten the bumpstop?

[bennjamin]

how to shorten the bumpstop?

Yes , when installing say lowered springs on stock or aftermarket shocks for example ~ ive been told to reduce the bumpstop length to compensate for the reduced piston stroke
Here is a example of stock vs "reduced" -
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=500/79bumpstopVS.jpg

EDIT to shorten the bumpstop , take it out of the suspension , then cut in half basically with a knife or small saw :)

[pinklady]

o ..so just cut it?

looking through some mags for some pics..not all coilovers hav those bumpstop???

this hav..
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8264/dsc03299b9vg.jpg


where's the bumpstop for this?
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/1522/dsc03298a3eg.jpg

[bennjamin]

1st pic = orange spongy thing at the top of the spring ~ the 2nd pic didnt load ?

[pinklady]

looking at those loaded pics..it doesnt hav the orange spongy things too.

will it b located under the black plastic cover? ie are where i've mark wth 3 lines.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1470/dsc03298a3eg7an.jpg


apperantly the black plastic covers are not removable?

[bennjamin]

the black plastic cover is reomvaeable and YES , the "bumpstop" resides inside here.
I have TEIN SS's and they are a very similar design too.
IF you have these coilovers or others , you do not need to "cut" the bumpstop at all as it is aready desigined for various heights and settings.

[pinklady]

i see.

will cutting the bumpstop have any adverse effect? cause the bumpstop/spongy thingy are not very long i believe.

and also they're there to absord impact..how short is safe?

[bennjamin]

what exact suspension and springs do you have ?
If stock or koni yellows etc then yes , you are supposed to cut the bumpstop in half if fitting lowering springs.
But , if you have proper coilovers , then leave everything as it is :)

[pinklady]

im still in the look for a decent coilovers for a good slam.

meanwhile been playing around wif friend's teins in his ek. but wat i found is tat for tein's coilovers..they're not as slammed when set lowest, also..when set lowest..there isnt much travel left. tats why it makes me wonder how well the sussy will last..

is teh short travel not much an issue for the coilovers?

[barefootbonzai]

Don't worry yourself about it too much. Coilovers are designed to work through their adjustable height and dampening range (well they should or it would be a pretty gay product). Just set them to a setting thats confortable for you, shouldn't be a problem.

[pinklady]

cheers barefootbonzai.

the thing is..im planning to use a much lower aftermarket springs to go wth the coilovers for a further slam. but im getting concern with the amount of travel left. say is the spring is another inch lower..obviously the travel will decrease another inch or there-around. so will doing so hurt the coilovers?

[barefootbonzai]

what coilovers are you planing to get? Cause the different brands offer different height settings. I had a set of koni coilovers and the drop wasn't enough for me, but now i'm running Fightex ones and if i was to put them on the lowest setting my car would probably touch the ground. I have friends running on zeal and cusco and it's the same for them. Lowest setting more than enough.

But on the other hand my cuzin is running Tein HA's and he wasnt happy with the ride height on the lowest setting so he took out the helper springs and his happy with that.

So maybe if you're looking for mega dumpage don't get tein's or koni's.

[pinklady]

thanks again pal.

yea thought so.. am looking into teins..but found they're not low enuf. but hav experience them and the ride was very good, tats wat makes me getting into teins.

again..wth the same concern, is anyone able to give any opinion on this? ..ur friend took out the helper springs..it'll then lower much more (~1.5in i reckon) on the lowest setting, but it also means tat there isnt much travel left. will tat kill it? or will the ride just b bumping around but the coilovers can handle it..?

[Domokun SPL]

Watch out when buying coilovers, because australian roads are not exactly nice to drive on with coilovers. Id always swing for a shock/spring upgrade unless the car sees more then its fair share of track days.

If you are going to upgrade suspension, think about increasing the spring stiffness about 30% above standard. Japanese coilovers tend to have overly high spring rates in the order of 7-8kg/mm. I personalyl wouldnt go over 4kg/mm. (They have nice roads)

Dont overlook sway bars either, they are the best bang for buck. You are best going to talk to a suspension place on how to set these up for balance. Oh, finally, be sure to get a wheel alignment and adjust the camber back towards std after the car has been lowered.

Back to your question, the shock would probably have the same wear on either soft or hard. Hard = more stress on everything but less friction, more pressure on seals etc. Soft = more travel, less stress compared to hard and less pressure on the seals. However, more travel = friction on shaft/bushes etc.

[pinklady]

thanks for all inputs guys.

Domokun_SPL : when u say soft = more travel, does it mean tat when the coilovers are set to the lowestest setting (ie: will hav a minimum travel left), it is best to set it firmer?

will the stroke inside the coilovers ever hit the bottom when there isnt much travel left at the top? how would one know when the gas leaks?

[Domokun SPL]

more travel means that the car is on a softer damper setting. This will allow the spring to "move" more and cause a softer ride. This means that yes, if the car is lowered it will hit the bump stops more regularly.

However, if the car is hitting the bump stops often, you need to increase the damper rate to compensate or the reduced total travel distance.

Its like, when you lower a car, you need to increase the spring rate to compensate. If the spring lowers the car too much and the spring rate isnt enough to compensate for the lowered'ness, then you will have to adjust with damper.

[pinklady]

thanks heaps man ..thansk for the explanation :thumbsup: :)

does anyone know how to tell if a coilover leaks? since its gas..how to tell when u blow a coliover? normal shocks will hav oil leaking out..but gas..how to tell?