[Euro] Manual vs Auto

[EuroDude]

Hi guys, :honda:

[Sry if this has been answered before - I searched with no luck]

I currently have a 93' Civic Si 5speed Manual (D16A8 1.6L DOHC 137hp) which has proved to be a quick and reliable car, but its done 250,000km+ :o Time for a refresh :)

I am looking into getting an Accord Euro 06' base model, but undecided on if I should get the Auto or manual.

I primary concern is the performance of the car.
Basically I want the performance of a manual, with the convenience of a auto.


I would like a manual because:
1) Total control - I'm a bit of a rev head :P
2) Faster accelleration
3) cheaper
4) 6 gears


But I would like an auto because:
1) Slooowwww morning bumper-to-bumper hilly traffic (hard work in a Civic!)
2) Tiptronic-style gear changes
3) I'm lazy lol
4) 5 Gear auto

My question, is - is there a significant difference between the acceleration (0-100) of the manual vs the auto?

I drove a new commodore exec the other day - my god they are slow. My Civic felt sooo much quicker it wasnt funny. The auto box was not impressive at all, plus I hate it when the auto box "thinks" about what to do when you foot pedal to the metal.

Normally I wouldnt think twice getting an Auto, but I read that the Euro's box is very intelligent and can rarely be caught out in the wrong gear - plus its a 5 speed. But I read that the auto doesnt feel like a 140kw car.

How is the Manual Euro in slow Traffic?
Does 1st gear coast at low speed ok?
What is the 0-100 speed of both transmissions?
(Motor magazine said the Manual can do 7.8 I think)


Your thoughts (preferably someone who has driven both)? :)

[yfin]

If you have been driving a manual all these years - stick with the manual as you will not be dissapointed.

I have driven both - and the auto is significantly slower - you are looking at 7.5sec in the manual to 100kph off idle. The auto is 9 flat. In gear the difference is very noticeable as the manual has shorter ratios.

Further the 2nd gear vtec in the auto is not really useable as the auto is doing well over 100kph by that stage. 2nd gear vtec in the manual is around the 85kph mark.

As soon as I saw you say you are a bit of a "rev head" - i knew the answer was a no brainer. You are more likely to be dissapointed in the auto IMO if you are a rev head.

The other option if you want the manual performance from an auto - is the V6 Accord. They can be made to look nice lowered with rims - but IMO it is an inferior car to the Euro.

[albii]

If you have been driving a manual all these years - stick with the manual as you will not be dissapointed.

I have driven both - and the auto is significantly slower - you are looking at 7.5sec in the manual to 100kph off idle. The auto is 9 flat. In gear the difference is very noticeable as the manual has shorter ratios.

Further the 2nd gear vtec in the auto is not really useable as the auto is doing well over 100kph by that stage. 2nd gear vtec in the manual is around the 85kph mark.

As soon as I saw you say you are a bit of a "rev head" - i knew the answer was a no brainer. You are more likely to be dissapointed in the auto IMO if you are a rev head.

The other option if you want the manual performance from an auto - is the V6 Accord. They can be made to look nice lowered with rims - but IMO it is an inferior car to the Euro.
very good valid point there ...i will also add that the tip auto box novelty will wear off very quickly if you are an enthusiast that has always had manuals..the 6sp is a gem, it really makes full use of the engines potential and when the revs get up it really goes hard..i've surprised quite a few people that think it's just a family car...quickest figures i've seen for manual is 7.3sec to 100. thats quick for a n/a 4cyl.

[coladuna]

Just go and test drive both auto and manual.
I've driven both and manual is definitely faster obviously.
I have also tried the tiptronic gearshift and it was completely useless and I didn't even use it after couple of shifts.

I can't really say that the Euro coasts well in 1st gear. It can make the car jerk at even the slightest change to the pressure on the accelerator pedal. Having said that, you can easily coast very slowly in 2nd gear where it's much more stable and smooth without the fear of stalling.

I assume it's something to do with electronic throttle. My brother's car is so much smoother when you get on and off the accelerator.

[aaronng]

I'd like to add that when you buy the manual Euro, you're getting a very slick shifting 6-speed, like that of the ITR or S2000 (but with longer throws of course). Compared to a BMW stick shift, the throw of the 6MT Euro is shorter.

With the auto, full lockup of the torque convertor occurs at around 6500rpm. So it is still a transmission that is tailored for comfortable driving.

I don't mind bumper to bumper hilly traffic with my 6MT because the clutch is light and has moderately long travel with the bite point slightly below midway. But you'll have to see if you are more willing to sacrifice performance or convenience. Try both cars, and hope that you get an opportunity to score a test drive during peak hour traffic!

[chosen_one]

Hi,
This won't answer your questions specific to the Euro, however it is worth a read.
Shift work: manual vs auto
http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,17463442-21822,00.html
I've grown up with autos in the family which is unfortunate as I really would like to get a manual 06 Euro but am worried I'll kill the cogs or burn out a clutch a two learning how to stick shift. Is it something that is easy to pick up? Plus it's cheaper :D

[msnealo]

With the auto, full lockup of the torque convertor occurs at around 6500rpm. So it is still a transmission that is tailored for comfortable driving.

I don't see the point of having an automatic transmission that can only be under full lock up for a max 500rpm when left in "D". I find it hard to believe, obviously the software would know you have your foot flat to the floor and lock up earlier like at about 4000rpm?

[sodaz]

Manual = Performance and Control (more spirted and fun)
Auto = Comfort and Convenience (better daily driver)

[Chris_F]

the fact that your even worried about performance and 0-100 times means you need to get a manual in the euro

[Ferrarista]

mate im a rep who is on the road everyday and i drive a manual. I once drove an Auto before buying mine then drove the manual and the difference is chalk and cheese.

Go the manual, u wont be disapointed.

[cleary]

When I was looking at buying mine, I test drove the auto first (they didn't have a manual test driver) and was really disappointed... it was really smooth, even hitting the rev limiter on each change and it just smoothly slid into the next gear...
I wasn't going to purchase one since I couldn't try the manual before buying and they ended up letting me flog one with less than 10kms on the clock ... it was so much more fun :)

I'm by no means a rev head either but they were like chalk and cheese to me - get the manual :)


lol - pure coincidence that I used the same cliche as ferarrista :p

[EuroDude]

Thanks guys, I will get the manual.
9 seconds is the main put-off, and I am used to a manual gearbox anyway.
I was hoping Honda made a near-manual-performance auto box, but thats clearly not the case.


cheers.


chosen_one quoted " Is manual something that is easy to pick up?"
For the first couple of years, it takes alot of hands on experience to get the gear changes and engine revs (speed matching) just right, but once you master it, you can pretty much change gears as quick as an auto tranny.

I actually wore out the synchros and the clutch earlier than normal (only 100,000km) by being too "spirited" and attempting to do burn-outs and what have you. But I'm over that now, and they have laster 150,000km after I got it reconditioned.

[aaronng]

I don't see the point of having an automatic transmission that can only be under full lock up for a max 500rpm when left in "D". I find it hard to believe, obviously the software would know you have your foot flat to the floor and lock up earlier like at about 4000rpm?
Yup, it's silly. But that's what the dyno plot over at vtec.net says.

[msnealo]

aaronng did you watch the vid clip of the dyno run? You can actually see the rev's die then pick back up when they say the torque converter locks up. I've never experienced this in my car (mind you I'm yet to redline in third gear as you would probably be around 160kph).

Something I have noticed is if I am going up hill in fifth gear with rev's at about 2000rpm and I then move the selector over to the manual selector the revs jump to about 2300rpm. Any idea's?

[aaronng]

Hi msnealo. Yup, I saw the vid, that's how I quoted the 6500rpm. Very weird yeah? Have to remember that it's also on a dyno, so there is no wind resistance. It could be that the torque convertor locks up based on the load the engine is under too. I'm not sure if you can see the effect in 2nd gear as well as I have not tried it. I drive the 6MT.

Before the torque convertor locks up, the revs should be higher than usual. So your observation of 2000rpm going up to 2300rpm means the torque convertor is doing the opposite! A torque convertor sacrifices rpm to a bit of extra torque, but the main purpose is to smoothen and reduce shock to the auto trans when it shifts, sort of like a clutch in a way.

Why don't you try 2nd gear redline and see if it does the same thing?

[msnealo]

Why don't you try 2nd gear redline and see if it does the same thing?

I do............daily. I've tried it in both self shift and "D" and it just rockets from 6000 to 7000 or 7300rpm with no let up. Maybe mine never locks up :confused:

[aaronng]

Or maybe it locks up earlier? Or maybe it's a trait of the 06' US TSX. I've seen the Hondata dynos of a stock 03/04 auto TSX, and there is no drop in RPM. :confused:

[type one]

I had this dilemma about 3 weeks ago. Its a pickle, because the pros and cons really don;t lead u anywhere...

Here is my thinking - i have always driven manual, i am young and i love being able to control the car... the auto would be fun if i was a grandpa and i wanted a smooth ride but i think i would always regret not being able to work through gears while i still had the energy to.

[EuroDude]

I had this dilemma about 3 weeks ago. Its a pickle, because the pros and cons really don;t lead u anywhere...

Here is my thinking - i have always driven manual, i am young and i love being able to control the car... the auto would be fun if i was a grandpa and i wanted a smooth ride but i think i would always regret not being able to work through gears while i still had the energy to.

My thoughts exactly :)

[padboy]

hello everyone, i am new to this forum.
i am willing to own a Euro. but i cant decide manual or auto.
as i know, if you want a integra R, you definitely want a manual. for a camry, you will go for auto. when you need to sell the car, its easier. coz people expect a sport car with manual and a family saloon with auto.
but it's really difficult for me to choose for a EURO. I would prefer an auto as a daily driver, but will it ruin EURO's sporty gene?

the main reasons that i choose a EURO is its reliability and quality.

so please give me some advise.

cheers

[yfin]

Padboy have you driven both models yet - sounds like you haven't?

ps - padboy - merged your question with a thread we already have on this topic

[jamchen]

um.... manual is always faster than auto... end on discussion :D
honestly i only driven the auto version of euro ( due to family convenience)
i actually found it accelerates quicker in tip-tronic mode than in D mode... guess its because u can hold the gears longer :D and i actually found the tip-tronic quite spirited... :P:P or maybe its just me... ahha
wondering which one is quicker... the MDX or the euro....

[panda[cRx]]

^ the mdx actually has a bit of guts :p
mdx vs v6L accord would be interesting too hehehe

anyway back on topic get a manual!
the euros are VERY nice with smooth accurate changes, i personally find it better to drive than manual dc5's :)

[sideswipe]

is it possible to change from an auto transmission to manuaL?
any ideas on costs?

[EuroDude]

Yeah the manual is very smooth thanks to 3-cone synchros, much smoother than my EG Civic thats for sure. Plus its easy to drive the manual in bumper to bumper traffic.

Spend the $2000 you save on some decent 18" rims ;)

[EuroDude]

is it possible to change from an auto transmission to manuaL?
any ideas on costs?

Yes its possible but very expensive and a big job since you need many bits and pieces, and I believe the Manual ECU as well.

You will be better off selling the Auto and buying a Manual - which may not even cost you any money if you get a manual with similar km's and age, or get a new/used MY06 if you have some spare cash :)

[panda[cRx]]

is it possible to change from an auto transmission to manuaL?
any ideas on costs?

it is, however most of the time it is not worth it. it would be better to sell then buy a manual.

autos are usually worth more anyway so spening money on something that is generally worth less does not make any sense imo

[aaronng]

See how much time you will spend stuck in traffic jams. If it is over 70-80%, then I'd go for the auto. Otherwise, it's manual all the way for me.

[Slugoid]

I have an auto, and it's good for what I use it for nowadays (taxi, transporter, people mover etc.). If I had a choice, I would have chosen the manual too just for the fun factor, or be on waiting list for the Golf GTi DSG if I wanted an auto. Actually, I rather have the Golf GTi than an Accord Euro period, manual or auto :p

[Pumped]

I test drove both a manual and auto, the auto wasn't near as much fun :(

[xiang]

I've got a manual, this is me though, this mighten apply to you. I took an auto for a spin before i purchased. I really didn't like it that much, the manual is just gives you so much more control of your car.

but from what ive experienced, that just might be me, the down side is traffic, i really hate the fact that 1st gear is really touchy, 2nd gear is okay to coast along in, but by the time you get up to second gear you basically have to shift down to 1st again. This is in that kind of stop and go traffic. My way around it is just to sit on the clutch, not the best idea, but im just lazy. LOL

I took my car for a road trip to orange, and on the open roads its beautiful to drive.

The best way for you to get a better idea is to take it for a spin yourself. But im pretty sure you wont experience everything you need to answer your questions. eg. traffic, etc

[EuroDude]

Got my Manual Euro serviced today and they gave me an Auto Euro for the day, quite a difference..

[Monty77]

Hi all, thought I'd add my five cents worth, but we have had our 6MT Graphite Euro Lux for only three weeks now and absolutely love it. We previously test drove an Auto as there were no manuals to try at the time. It did perform well, but after driving the Manual there is a significant difference in throttle response between the two. Yeah, the throttle can be a little jerky in First (and Reverse) gears but the liveliness of the motor is felt greater in Man than in the auto (I think). Coming from a '99 WRX, Credit still has to be given to the Auto for refinement and smooth driving but I guess I'm a bit biased because I have generally driven Manuals......so far!

Cheers, Monty.

[Aratahu]

Well there's been a lot of negative stuff written about the automatic here, but as the owner of the 2005 5AT I'd like to shoot in that as far as autos go, it is a brilliant drive regardless of power lost in the transmission. Also, the auto is faultless and you are never caught short for power if you need to quickly put the foot down - just say you had been dozing a bit and something suddenly happened, there's no "oh I have to downshift" - just plant the pedal to the metal, point the car and shoot off. And yes, for shitty city traffic like Hoddle street in Melbourne it's just the best. I believe the ECU adapts to your driving style and at around 17.5Kks it's now very responsive; we probably don't get the best fuel economy, but as long as the performance is there that's ok. We only use BP Ultimate.

I'm also the happy owner of a GSXR600 k4 and that thing just hammers - zero to 100 in roughly half the time of the 6MT. Of course, apples and oranges. Still, I'd just like to put that bit in here unless you'd think I'm some old granny.

Due to growing a family the bike will probably be replaced by another cage in the next year or so and I'm thinking maybe the Mazda3 MPS. My wife and I will then get to fight over who takes which car, neither is a lost case. I'm thinking the second car should be a manual as I do miss that from my old Civic. Still I didn't like the MT of that previous model hatchback, very hard to get into first gear if carrying some speed even when heel toeing, so I will take the opportunity that Mazda's performance driving event of their MPS range at Sandown this coming week will provide me to find out what it's like.

[IAMVTEC]

I have an auto, and it's good for what I use it for nowadays (taxi, transporter, people mover etc.). If I had a choice, I would have chosen the manual too just for the fun factor, or be on waiting list for the Golf GTi DSG if I wanted an auto. Actually, I rather have the Golf GTi than an Accord Euro period, manual or auto :p

Sorry to tell you, but Golf sucks

[aaronng]

Sorry to tell you, but Golf sucks
Have you test driven a GTI?

[Vinnie]

Sorry to tell you, but Golf sucks

i dunno if uve actually ever experience ne of the things u seem to hate so much, the gti is a rocket... oh and MT ftw :D

[DreadAngel]

The previous Golf GTi Mark ??? wasn't what the Golf was meant to be, overweight and underpowered. The new Golf GTi however is beautiful, 2L Turbo with a clutchless Manual I believe, its been winning awards and winning over many motor journalist around the globe...

[curik]

i would trade my car with all its mods just to get the GTI

[aaronng]

i would trade my car with all its mods just to get the GTI
Damn.... lol, the GTI would have been about the same price as your Lux when new.

[curik]

yeah! only if the gti came out earlier!!! I was a completely n00b in cars back then. And since when are you a cat again?

[Slugoid]

Sorry to tell you, but Golf sucks
I love ignorant fools :rolleyes:. Mk5 Golf GTi with DSG will eat a Euro for breakfast anyday, anytime. I dare say the handling is even better than the Euro too cos it's lighter. The Mk4 Gti was nothing special but Mk5 is a totally different car.

[curik]

a fully loaded gti will beat the euro in every single way except the big boot and the H emblem

[EuroBro]

Hows this - the new 08 Accord doesn't come in a manual at all. If it did, I would fly!!! Sub 6's for sure!!!

I drove this baby and will buy this because it delivers great power to the ground (6.5 secs?) and has a silky smooth tranny. I have owned manuals for my last 2 hondas (Teggy Type S and Euro Lux) and I would definately put it down to a sign of old age. :p

Fuel consumption will probably be the same. The good thing about a fast-4 is that you can cane the rings of it all day long - that's why you neeed a manual. Sixes on the other hand give similar performance with an auto.

aaronng edit: No street racing!

[splashalot2000]

Sorry to tell you, but Golf sucks

LOL!!!

I have a GTI and a Euro, I can confirm that you couldn't be more wrong.

[Bruster]

hi, recently drove my mother in law's Euro lux Auto and got a chance to thrash it a little specially on trip tronic mode and i must say it felt alot faster than 9sec 0-100 time which is what most people have claimed even the Honda Website.

im yet to prove this with a timing device, but i have driven alot of cars in the past and this one feels very fast in Auto mode, obviously not as fast a manual but fast.

by the way in new to the forum...

Cheers
Bru

[Bo0o0ost]

6 Speed for life!

[tony1234]

6 Speed for life!
Agreed.6 speed FTW.

[victor_0012001]

Get a manual Eurodude since you seem like a revs lover :) I own an auto it certainly more boring than manual, and the low revs is actually quite dumm..... enough for me though as I'm a boring driver haha

[EuroDude]

Get a manual Eurodude since you seem like a revs lover :) I own an auto it certainly more boring than manual, and the low revs is actually quite dumm..... enough for me though as I'm a boring driver haha

Umm I have a 6MT Euro, this thread was posted in the Jurassic period lol

And yes Im glad I got the manual, Ive driven the Auto Euro a few times now and the performance difference it quite substantial. The 6MT vs 5AT is like a V6 compared to a 4cyl. Shame the Auto isnt a 6AT :(

[johnprocter]

ahh i wish i had manual euro :(

[EuroDude]

ahh i wish i had manual euro :(

sometimes I wish I had the Auto when stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, the fuel cut-off bunnyhop in 1st and 2nd gear when de-accelerating is annoying. If only there was a mod to disable it.

[aaronng]

sometimes I wish I had the Auto when stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, the fuel cut-off bunnyhop in 1st and 2nd gear when de-accelerating is annoying. If only there was a mod to disable it.
It only happens to me in 1st gear. Never in 2nd.... What are you still doing here? The Euro meet is on tonight!

[EuroDude]

It only happens to me in 1st gear. Never in 2nd.... What are you still doing here? The Euro meet is on tonight!

in syd? had no idea lol