B18C(vti-r) or H22A?

[danni_d]

as it clearly marks on the title, B18C or H22A?. I am just contemplating on which engine conversion i should proceed on. Can everyone give me their opinions?

[Kazaf]

Depends on the amount of cash you have to spend.

[JDMTMY]

do a search mate..plenty of pros and cons for both engines...just depends on what you are after for your car.

[Steer^Gimic]

what car are you planning to put this into?

[PaZzMaN-R]

h22a is heavier then the b18c so if the car is intended for tracking you might choose the b18c:):)
what are your intentions for the car and what car? help people out a little by giving them background to base their suggestions on also probably search as im sure this has been covered before. goodluck

[SKREMN]

it may be alot easier to drop one type of motor in then another depending on the car type

[danni_d]

oh i was planning to put it into a EK civic. i was thinking about h22a because it has more torque. so wouldn't it be better.. but yeh.. the b18c is much lighter. so i'm contemplating about the both of them. but i don't think i'll be using my car for track. it might just be more of a zippy little street car :P.
also, a friend of mine said i could put a b18c into a ek for 5g and have engineers cert. and everything, because he works at motorware . i didn't ask him about the h22a. though.

[chicken8]

h22a is a much bigger and more powerful engine

143/147kw depending on which year.

heaps more torque too. much better as a daily cause its just easier to drive. but petrol will cost u a fair bit

B18 is just the easier choice cause its easier to source the engine than a H22A. better petrol. enough power

H22A in a civic will put heaps of strain on ur chassis i imagine if u were to thrash it often. and no doubt the gearbox will struggle. because even the 5th gen prelude's stock gearbox had many problems dealing with the power from H22A. alot of gearboxes blown and stuff

[Paul1985]

h22 = a hell of a lot more expensive than the b18c, more custom work involved, heavier (more strain) and im sure this makes it bad for cornering and tyre wear. It also would munch a b18c in the same chassis IMO.. would be more fun to drive with the torque.

B18C, esp the AUDM VTI-R as you stated will be a great and quick engine, not quiet as powerful as the h22a IMO, but i think your friend from motorware is fairly close in his price estimate. If it were a JDM B18C, the engine itself would be more than 5k.. but for the AUDM vtir.. much cheaper.

I think u will be very pleased with either engine for street driving to be honest. My opinion would be to go for the b18c dude.

good luck

[dc4t]

i say go with the h22 if u want a quick straight-line car.. with a b18c (vti-r), especially the audm.. u'll pull like high 14s if ur lucky?? lol.. with h22 ive seen ppl break late 13s with the stock motor..

[barefootbonzai]

Why the hell do people think the H22 cost a hell of a lot more than B18? This is utter rubbish. The going cost of a B18C vtir halfcut is $3500ish and the cost of the H22a halfcut is $2500ish. $500 on mounts and $500 on the extra bit of labour and that bring it to even.

[danni_d]

hrmm.... i want the H22A in the civic. but yeh.. like what chicken8 said about the strain that it puts on it..i'm worried about that. bcause wouldn't that also cause a lot of understeer? because of the weight infront of the car.?
also, to help te strain on the chassis, what can u do?

[danni_d]

would like coilovers, front and rear strut and sway bars help support it?

[VTi_b0i]

wat ull have if u get H22A is a car that goes quick as down a str8 line, but handles like crap... IMO go the b18c bro... thats what im doing :)

[danni_d]

lol... that doesn't answer what i just asked.

[c1v1c]

hrmm.... i want the H22A in the civic. but yeh.. like what chicken8 said about the strain that it puts on it..i'm worried about that. bcause wouldn't that also cause a lot of understeer? because of the weight infront of the car.?
also, to help te strain on the chassis, what can u do?

NOT MUCH! if your budget can go bigger go for the b18c7r will go very good

[spoondc2]

H22A is heavier and you'll get crap handling
My fd's fd in US done it before and he regret it so much

Maybe just get a B18C and spend some money to work on the engine

[danni_d]

b18c7r.. how much does that engine cost by itself?

[c1v1c]

b18c7r.. how much does that engine cost by itself?
http://www.inlinefour.com/motors.html good site the b18c7r is the teg type r motor you are looking at roughly 8g for the motor with hydraulic transmission,
engine mounts, shift-linkage, ECU, and drive axles. included

[danni_d]

this is an australian site right? lol

[c1v1c]

ozhonda yeah australian inlinefour not but they are good to purchace parts through but just to answer you q? it will cost roughly 7-8g for the b18c7r. i myself want a k20 into my EG but thats 3yrs away when i get off my p's.

[danni_d]

thats cool. i was thinking maybe a k20a as well.. but i guess i was sort of on a tight bdget thats why i'm choosing between h22a and b18c but i guess from what i've heard it's not a good idea putting a h22a into a civic b coz the handling wll be shockingly shocking lol

[c1v1c]

h22 is only good for drags it will ultimatly in the end warp your chassis through cornering. Man good things come to those who wait (open up a new bank account and put part of the money you earn into it for about 1 or 2 years) by the end of that time you should be able to afford a k20 swap. thats how it will work out for me bloody government.

[danni_d]

haha.. ok then. so at the moment you just have a eg civic with a d16a8? and you're planning to put in a k20a. how much longer to go?

[c1v1c]

eg with the d13 carbie. i get off my p's in 2 and a half years then i do the swap :)

[h22a jdm]

isnt b18c like 170-180 nm of torque and h22a 212nm of torque so i dont think the weight would relly matter

[c1v1c]

the b18c7r has 149kw and 181nm while the h22a has 141kw and 197nm. So very similar but you will find the b18c7r is very good and peaky in the top end and is a lightened motor over the every day b18c while the h22a has oodles of torque accross a wider rev range but is a heavier motor.

[type one]

spot welding... good mounts... good suspension... won't be any more stress for the car...

barefootbonzai is correct, prolly work out cheaper... plus you will get a car which is f8cken fast... as opposed to just fast...

b18c2 is a great engine but if you're swapping B18C7 or H22A just put a bigger smile on your face :)

[[[d a n n y]]]

i dunno why people are saying H22a will make your car handle shit..

it's only 50kgs or so more heavier than the B18c
it will produce more torque more KW's all over the rev range than the B18c
but it'll cost abit to install properly custom mounts,shafts, no A/C, no power steering ( not sure i've heard) it wont be a very good daily driver.
IMO B18c is a better option. cheaper to modify,lot's of parts avaiable,

ps.H22a's are easier to source than the B seruse engines

[danni_d]

YAY! thanks guys! my god.. i really want the h22a in my car rather than a b18c.. but the thing that just worried me was the handling part. mad. and also.. the b18c7r is a type r engine so i kind of think it isn't worth it with engine swap. because i'm planning to change suspension and everything so it should be ok right?

[[d a n n y]] ... but the thing is... if u put in the h22a it would be like 13s stock. and you don't have to do much to the engine thats the thing.

also, i'm thinking about putting a jap spec h22a into the car isn't that around 147-150kw at the engine?

[h22a jdm]

but if u were to tune the h22a and b18c to the max teh h22a would win handle more shit upgrade to 6 speed

[type one]

all i can say is the H22A Ek will be a monster... and will run a 13 sec pass with ease...

the trade off will be between p/s and air con - def can't fit both :) but a good mechanic should be able to give you one.

[h22a jdm]

if u were to do the conversion with a h22a but you equipped it with the atts wouldnt the handling be like the smae as the b18c cuz its only 50kg heavier

[danni_d]

really.. does anyone know who is the person with the eg with the h22a in it?

[h22a jdm]

all i can say is the H22A Ek will be a monster... and will run a 13 sec pass with ease...

the trade off will be between p/s and air con - def can't fit both :) but a good mechanic should be able to give you one.

id pefer power steering

[h22a jdm]

really.. does anyone know who is the person with the eg with the h22a in it?


nope but i heard it ran 11s wit only CAI EXHAUST AND HEADERS and the h22a has a way nicer sound then the b18c

[type one]

a trader on this forum has a EG with a H22A. Do a search can't remember his/her name.

[danni_d]

damn... i don't know that to choose. because a car w/o aircon really really sucks penises lol.

[h22a jdm]

all i can say is the H22A Ek will be a monster... and will run a 13 sec pass with ease...

the trade off will be between p/s and air con - def can't fit both :) but a good mechanic should be able to give you one.


how much would it take to change form drums to disc brakes and put abs in?

[danni_d]

when you get an engine conversion... don't you normally get the brakes from the half cut with it?

[type one]

rear drums to discs? well you got to find em and then install - i'd estimate parts to be a few hundred (2nd hand rear arms, caliper, discs and pads) and the labour to be a couple of hundred :)

ABS is another story.

daddi-d i think H22a JDM was referrign to rear drums... front cut for a H22A will be a prelude front and this runs 4 x 114.3 PCD - comapred to your 4 x 100... it would be a hassle to run two different PCDs front and back.

[h22a jdm]

it would in the thousands yea

[type one]

it would in the thousands yea

i'd estimate safely within 1k parts and labour.

[danni_d]

soz haha i'm a noob... maybe thats y i'm on this forum seeking knoledge lol.

[type one]

no stress. Plenty of more knowledgeable NA people on this forum... just got to seek em or let them reply to this thread.

[h22a jdm]

hrmm.... i want the H22A in the civic. but yeh.. like what chicken8 said about the strain that it puts on it..i'm worried about that. bcause wouldn't that also cause a lot of understeer? because of the weight infront of the car.?
also, to help te strain on the chassis, what can u do?

couldnt atts help with all the understeer

[DynoDave]

The weight difference between a H22A and a B18C engine is only 25 or 30kgs so most of the replies you have received so far are false,you can run power steering and air con with the H conversion you just need to get some plumbing custom made for this install.Just think about it guys when you turbo a B series it will weight about the same as an N/A H22A.The only draw back is the gearbox ratio's of a H series box but that can now be fixed,you will spend $10,000 + dollars to get a B-series to make 140kw but a H series will cost around the $6000 to make 140 + kw.So if it was me and I was going to do this conversion I would go H series just look at we have done with the H22A powered CRX N/A car from Online Performance.
Regards Dyno Dave

[SKREMN]

have you considerd a b20 hybrid?
more torque then a b18 but same size and wight looks the same from the outside also

[c1v1c]

]']i dunno why people are saying H22a will make your car handle shit..


its not that much heavier but its placement compared to a b18 puts more weight infront of the fronts which will cause more understeer. But with all said and done unless you are willing to go b18c7r or a k20a/a2 i would take the h22a over the b18c2

[[[d a n n y]]]

its not that much heavier but its placement compared to a b18 puts more weight infront of the fronts which will cause more understeer. But with all said and done unless you are willing to go b18c7r or a k20a/a2 i would take the h22a over the b18c2

well obviously if the person who was doing the conversion had any sense

they would have changed the front spring ratios and the sway bars etc the stiffen up the rear end to counter the understeer

[NightKids]

i just bumped into this on the forums that might be beneficial to you. civic with a H22A conversion

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13733

suggest you take a read ...

[danni_d]

hey! thanks heaps for that.. i wanted to find this guy lol.

[danni_d]

so what EXACTLY would you have to upgrade, so when you do the engine conversion it wont affect the chassis?

[[[d a n n y]]]

well really depends what your car comes with..

if it's a breeze gl/gli

you'll need rear LCA's from Si or VTi. to fit in a stock rear sway bar atleast.
even just putting a B16a it is a good idea to upgrade it..
but general things like sway bars Suspension, etc anything that'll stiffen up your chassis will be a good idea.

[danni_d]

hehe.. it's an ek bro.

[danni_d]

ek cxi

[[[d a n n y]]]

hehe.. it's an ek bro.

oppps shit ey sorry man thougt it was a EG
well same applies to the EK
i'd strongly recomend upgrading the rear brakes to disc.
then when your doing that change your LCA's so u can mount a stock EK4 sway bar even on a stock CXi it'll make alot of improvement in your turn in and your car will feel very positive into corners.

well in the case of a B18c/H22a/B16a engine swop. try the type R sway bars (OEM ITR/CTR) bigger than the stock EK4 or VTI/GLI sway bars
and the strut braces carbring /spoon or similar.
and then to counter the added weight in the front use adjustable damper shocks to stiffen her up in the front

[danni_d]

cool! thanks :P

[honda_b_blastn]

i just bumped into this on the forums that might be beneficial to you. civic with a H22A conversion

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13733

suggest you take a read ...

Good to see my write up is coming of use...:)

[h22a jdm]

i'd estimate safely within 1k parts and labour.

for aBS? r u sure

[2MPRSS]

i ran 14.4 1/4 mile with my stock b18c2 in my eg with no back seats and 14 inch cheese cutters
ive had no problems with it so far, thats from my experience and very happy with the b18c but duno about the h22a

[type one]

for aBS? r u sure

my quote was an estimate for rear discs parts and labour NOT ABS.

[barefootbonzai]

i ran 14.4 1/4 mile with my stock b18c2 in my eg with no back seats and 14 inch cheese cutters

ive had no problems with it so far, thats from my experience and very happy with the b18c but duno about the h22a



Are you sure it's a B18C2???? Cause it surely doesn't look like it

[j-specAccord]

14.4 in a stock B18C2?? are you schumacher???

[2MPRSS]

yes it is a b18c2 i forgot to add that it has a heavy duty clutch and i think lightend flywheel not sure,some people can drive on this forum and not get 15s

[j-specAccord]

oooooooooooooooooooow thats low, but its ok im not a 15er

[2MPRSS]

u shouldnt have to worry about anything then

[j-specAccord]

i dont. man 14.4 is an awesome time for a stock B18C2, i pulled a 14.4 in my stock H22 running rich with no rear seats (still 1300kgs). barefoot run low 15's cos he needed tuning and his plugs are rooted, plus he is EK and EG's are lighter

[2MPRSS]

in a accord thats quik,my car isnt tuned at all and i duno what ecu im runing :S all i know is its a jdm honda ecu which is faulty

[j-specAccord]

so is yours turbo now? cos your pics are still NA
yeah 14.41 in my accord (see we can drive ;) )
so you got B18C2 and jap ECU?

[2MPRSS]

car is at workshop geting turbo transplant,yeah b18c2 with jdm ecu but duno which one

[danni_d]

thats mad.. turbod b18c civic.. that'll be pretty hardcore. lol. do u think there's enough space to turbo a h22a in a civic? LOL....

[aaronng]

Hmm, when you have turbo + h22a in an EK, you'd end up with no traction and then being slower than the non-turbo h22a.

[j-specAccord]

slower as in off the line both wearing street rubber yeah, come third gear the boosted H will take him.

[DynoDave]

thats mad.. turbod b18c civic.. that'll be pretty hardcore. lol. do u think there's enough space to turbo a h22a in a civic? LOL....
Yes there is room to do a turbo H22A in a EK Civic but it would not be that cheap as everything will have to be custom made but it would be alot of fun to drive and you would need a LSD.
Regards Dyno Dave

[roar]

if you were going to make a switch to rear discs/swaybars etc...don't get stock

its a great opportunity to get some better shit...look on dba and whiteline sites

[bored]

h22a all the way

[pkn-xtc]

thats mad.. turbod b18c civic.. that'll be pretty hardcore. lol. do u think there's enough space to turbo a h22a in a civic? LOL....

There was one up for auction on ebay a few weeks back.
White civic with altezza tail lights, ugly ass rims and a boosted H22A. Hardcore sleeper i'd say.