Compression

[todaek9]

Hey guys,

Anyone knows how to Raise their Compression to 13:1 - 13.5:1? any tips?

[IFROGI]

what engine you want to do with it?

[ek4-guy]

id say block decking, pistons an valves

[SKREMN]

thats very high comp! all new high comp internals will do it
pistons cams valves ect...

[Vtir_Kid]

Hey guys,

Anyone knows how to Raise their Compression to 13:1 - 13.5:1? any tips?


is there even pistons that high in compression?

do do that and run is safly, my advice would be good block work, including sleeving. pistons, rods, ecu, and go all out on headwork.

[SKREMN]

i got a comp rating in the 12's and thats pretty high i got stronger sleeved block, typre r crank, crower rods and high comp cp pistons and skunk 2 flat high comp valves, skunk 2 cams and so on
also stronger head studs good head gasket cometic and heeps of work to the head

[DynoDave]

Hey guys,

Anyone knows how to Raise their Compression to 13:1 - 13.5:1? any tips?
Engine type would be a nice start.
Regards Dyno Dave

[wynode]

Engine type would be a nice start.
Regards Dyno Dave
Exactly. till then its a wild guess from anyone posting.

[todaek9]

LEts say a Type R - B series...

[mpd076-chuck]

Why so high first of all? It's not just a matter of tips, that's an involved engine build. I guess it's just to get more power out of cams? Going above 12.5:1 is involved - I dont think you can do it reliably without skremn's list - ecu, rods, high quality pistons, new head studs, new valvetrain and port and polish head to make it worthwhile, plus new oil pump gear and oil cooler.

If you want more grunt, I suggest leaving the bottom end stock and try and find all the power in the head - port/polish then mill your head to raise compression to about 11.7ish:1, port your TB and intake manifold to match the head port, get best header you can and run a toda b (maybe ) c or skunk2 pro stage 1. Or see Toda Oz' post in the Integra forum - DC2R bang for buck.

But if you really want 13.1:1 your best bet is to talk with an experienced engine builder, ie Dyno Dave, Toda Aust etc.

[wynode]

Civic or Integra engine? Why all the secrecy? I don't think the experts can give you any advice unless you tell them what the starting platform is first.

[aaronng]

And you have to make sure that your valve overlap and lift selection does not end up with the pistons crashing into the open valves.

[SKREMN]

LEts say a Type R - B series...
so your looking at building a motor but havnt got one yet?
you open to all options or restricted to that motor?

Are you after that comp rating specifiically or want more power and what?
what are you expecting outa your motor???
whats 13.1 gonna do for ya?

[todaek9]

i got new ARIAS oversize piston with darton wet Sleeves, SPoon N1 Crank shaft + Rods, TODA C or JUN Stage 4 cam (got 2 sets,depending which is better), 370cc injector, Fuel pump, port and polish already, TODA Valve Springs, Uprated Valve Retainer springs, 68mm bored Butterfly to match Intake, Extractor, MOTEC, JDM Head gasket, Cam Sprocket but don't know what cam phase should be.

I only got 12.3:1 Compression and it is not making power. My friend told me that i need at least 13.1:1 compression to make sufficient power by using those huge cams.

it's only making 130kw @ wheels, and my friend who got the same thing, does 145kw @ wheels...so, where did the 15kw go??? Really weird...by the way, he is running 13.1:1 compression, using Haltech...

[SKREMN]

mate i juss did my motor and i found out it was my injectors is whats not letting me make peek power?
goign from 330 to 440cc
what differance has he done to his motor?
same tuner?
same builder?

[todaek9]

B series Type R only got B16b or B18c..both block are the same, as in height...just head is different and also piston..but after changing the after market piston, it'll be the same still...am i rite??




Civic or Integra engine? Why all the secrecy? I don't think the experts can give you any advice unless you tell them what the starting platform is first.

[todaek9]

I'm not sure 370cc is sufficient or not, but it is just not making power. Power peaks at (Vtec point at 7200rpm) 8200rpm @ 129.7kw @ wheels using TODA C cams, and power peaks at (Vtec point at 6000rpm) 8600rpm @ 131.2 kw @ wheels...but then comparing both cams, JUN Stage 4 is abit too aggressive i think but lost power over 9300rpm...for Toda Spec C, It doesn't lose any power at all, but it peaks at 129ish untill 10,000rpm...it's giving me a headache...




mate i juss did my motor and i found out it was my injectors is whats not letting me make peek power?
goign from 330 to 440cc
what differance has he done to his motor?
same tuner?
same builder?

[todaek9]

same tuner, not the same builder...nope...my friends engine is exactly the same as mine now. but he told me that, the Tuner here may be didn't set the cams rite, but then, my tuner said it's good already...so, i'm very blur now...

[DynoDave]

same tuner, not the same builder...nope...my friends engine is exactly the same as mine now. but he told me that, the Tuner here may be didn't set the cams rite, but then, my tuner said it's good already...so, i'm very blur now...
I think we have had a few chats about this engine before via e-mail,as Toda AU or myself will tell you there is more to cam timing than these tuner's/builders will tell you and the Spec-C will support alot more power than you are making with your current compression,and the other problem is in the valve seats and porting as there are only 1 or 2 people in this country that can get the best out of a Honda Vtec head.
Regards Dyno Dave

[todaek9]

ehh, whois the 1 or 2 people???? and how much they charged for porting?

yea, we have a chat about who but it seems that what you've told me and i've pass the msg to the tuner doesn't even matter to him, and he thinks that he's always rite...rite now, i'm still stuck with that much power...actually, i have no idea who to approach now...hmm..Dyno dave, you ever in Melb?????...

MAy be i'll redo the port and polish again...hmm...

[tinkerbell]

todaek9 - the 1 or 2 guys are probably on Sydney (i dont know for sure though!)

it would be worth your while to consider the expense of sending your head to sydney...

or even over to Portflow in the USA http://www.portflow.com/frame.htm

to get it worked properly.

Dave is right, 12.3:1 with spec C's should make easy power,

compression does not sound like your problem,

as i believe, on normal fuel, compression past 13:1 provides vastly diminishing power returns i.e. it will not provide as much % power increase than say increasing from 10:1 to 10.5:1

as you have explianed, you are making peak power at 8.5kish but goes until 10k?

sounds like some restriction? or maybe cam timing?

what extractors are you using?

[mpd076-chuck]

throttle body fully opening? just at thought...

[tinkerbell]

good point chuck, go back to the basics :thumbsup:

also MoTeC data logging might be able to give some clues as to what is going on?

[DynoDave]

ehh, whois the 1 or 2 people???? and how much they charged for porting?

yea, we have a chat about who but it seems that what you've told me and i've pass the msg to the tuner doesn't even matter to him, and he thinks that he's always rite...rite now, i'm still stuck with that much power...actually, i have no idea who to approach now...hmm..Dyno dave, you ever in Melb?????...

MAy be i'll redo the port and polish again...hmm...
Yes Dude I am in Melbourne alot working but I would rather you bring the car up to Sydney and leave it here to get the work done because if we have to rework the head I would only do it here on our CNC valve seat cutter and want the head fitted here and cam timing done before it goes on the dyno again.PM or e-mail me for any more info including any cylinder head work.
Regards Dyno Dave

[todaek9]

Hmm, guess some Tuners here are just not doing any good, and the funny thing was, I've paid already, for 6 hr's + Cam phasing session, and the guy got fed up, don't know what is going on, bitch abt my car and he told me that "your car is just not making power, Wrong setting" i was like...mate, you just don't know anything about Honda...What a irresponsible word to say to anyone....

[tinkerbell]

if there is one man who knows Honda, it is Dyno Dave :thumbsup:

[ProECU]

its always easy to blame a tuner... how about you look into how the engine was built, and ask for some clearance numbers before you start making assumptions.

[Perry]

sORRY to hijack the thread since its on the topic whats the expected power out from just say a b18c with ctr pistions, and toda b cams, and full exhaust???

[DynoDave]

sORRY to hijack the thread since its on the topic whats the expected power out from just say a b18c with ctr pistions, and toda b cams, and full exhaust???
Why not just start your own thread or search dude as you have not given enough info for a reply.
Regards Dyno Dave

[todaek9]

What if the tuner keep on saying Don't KNOW to me?? one more thing, I don't ASSUME and make up things...




its always easy to blame a tuner... how about you look into how the engine was built, and ask for some clearance numbers before you start making assumptions.

[ProECU]

What if the tuner keep on saying Don't KNOW to me?? one more thing, I don't ASSUME and make up things...

No need to get upset, you've misunderstood what i was trying to tell you.
It's more than likely a combination of tuner AND builder.

Do you even have clearance numbers &/or head flow figures?

[todaek9]

i'm not sure it's the optimum clearance, and i don't know much bout it as well...so it's up to the guy to tell me is it alrite, but always in the end, he will tell me, i don't know what is going on...people are sometime just over confident in their words, especially the tuner i've got...1st, he told me, yea, no prob, 140kw ish, yea, o sweat...at the end of the day,..hmm..i guess i'm just wasting my money on unnecessary fools like that tuner...i've been to 3 tuner and 3 let me down...haha..never tried CRD, guess they are just abit too pricey...4k..retune, redo head...that all...not incl GST..hahaha..