Engine oil consumption on a Gen 5

[jaffa_cree]

Hi all,

Is it normal to burn oil on the Gen 5 VTI-R?
Normal driving shift at 3000 rpm which the occasional VTEC here and there.
How much oil is considered normal to be lost?

Also, how does one correctly measure engine oil level with the dip stick.
Do you check the level when the car is cold, warmed up for 5 minutes, or after a 30 min drive?
And when the engine is warm or driven, do you immediately check the oil level or wait like 10 mins?


Thanks

[racinghonda]

The H22a can use up to 1L every 5000-7000kms and Honda would consider that "normal" for that engine. DOHC Vtec engines tend to go through a bit of oil I think.

[Slow96GSR]

Well it is never good burn up oil but you will lose some out the top of the head where the valve cover is. Hondas are natorious for that. But then depending on how many miles are on it the rings on the pistons might be bad. Go have the compression checked just to be safe. 1L every 5000-7000kms is a lot of loss. Even with my car burning a little at every start up from the "odd" pistons I don't go thru that much. My pistons aren't 100% round, they are a little out of round so when they heat up they become 100% round, 100% being relitive!!

When I check the oil I like to check it a few minutes after I've warmed up the car. Gets the oil up where some should be and then some drips off the bottom of the block and the crank. Then there should be oil between the two dots on the dip stick. Make sure you wipe the stick before you test it. There will be oil all up the stick sometimes.

[racinghonda]

I should add that some of the oil is lost through the PCV system, I know this because I have an oil catch can . . .

[Slow96GSR]

Good. Glad to see someone uses those besides me. Also if you are getting a lot of oil in there you mat need a new pcv. You should lose very little in there. I get about 1 OZ every 3-4 months. Might want to check that.

[Menthu Rae]

Could also be your valve stem seals, my car was using shocking amounts of oil (2001 model with 55 thou kms at the time) - turned out to be the valve stem seals ^_^ where abouts in syd are you located? PM me... might know someone who can help you in your area.

[AMPERAGE]

I have burned 5L in 5,500km in my 5th Gen 'Lude, an entire bottle has gone into it over this period. I was pretty worried about the rate it disappearing so I took the car in and got a leakdown / compression test on the engine. The result came back as the engine having full compression, giving results like it was damn near new (It's done 110,000km) I've had a few of my mates comment that when they drive behind me, the car does puff a bit of smoke, which is burned oil out the exhaust. Admittedly, I do drive the car hard and it sees a lot of VTEC. My only guess is that under VTEC when the valves have opened up wide, I'm losing it through them.

That aside, I've been meaning to get a catch can to check how much I'm losing through the PCV.

As a side note, what weight oil is everyone using? The lighter the oil, the faster you will burn it. I use a 5W30 which is one of the lightest oils around, and I suspect that if I upgraded to a slightly heavier oil, like a 10W40 I would have a lot less loss.

[racinghonda]

Wow that is a lot of oil loss. I would be puting the car on a hoist and checking for leaks. If it was being burned at that rate your car will be constantly blowing out blue smoke. My money is on an oil leak.

[AMPERAGE]

Thats the thing though, the car ISNT leaking oil, that was the first thing that was checked, and then it was checked over and over again. It's baffeled a lot of people, myself included, but from all the car tuners and mechanics that I've spoken to, I get the same reply: "Well if it's not leaking out and your compression is fine, all you can do is keep topping it up...and maybe try a catch can."

One of the guys from the car club that I'm part of owns a Porsche 911 Carrera. His Porsche mechanic actually say that the car will burn oil and that you should expect it to blow smoke, especially when cold or under power. They say that 1L per 1000km is about what you should expect.

I still don't know why my H22A is wasting this much oil when no-one else seems to have losses anywhere near this much.

[racinghonda]

Its a bit high for even a h22a. So you said you did a leak down test as well? Not just a compression test? There is a difference you know. Did the mechanic hook up compressed air and pressurise your cylinder to check for valve stem seal leaks?

[AMPERAGE]

Yep, I had him do both. Both came back with great results. I dont know where my oil is going :confused: !

[racinghonda]

Try a catch can. Have you tested your PCV valve? You can do the pinch test on it. With the engine idling at normal temperature, pinch the pipe leading from the PCV valve and put your ear near the valve, you should hear a "click" from it.

[Menthu Rae]

Yep, I had him do both. Both came back with great results. I dont know where my oil is going :confused: !

You SURE it's not valve stem seals? (comp test/leak down test CANT determine this, AFAIK) - my car wasn't blowing smoke, but was using shiteloads of oil - turned out to be valve stem seals like I said.

Either you're leaking somewhere, or it's something in your head (haha). :wave:

[AMPERAGE]

I'm pretty sure that it's not in my head :P

It could possibly be my valve stem seals that are causing the problem, which may explain the smoke that my car blows. When I say that it blows smoke, it doesn't pour out, it gives a little puff when you floor it, or snap it back a gear and force the revs up. I would have thought that if the seals were shot, it'd give a constant flow of smoke. However I might have to get them checked out.

[Menthu Rae]

I'm pretty sure that it's not in my head :P

It could possibly be my valve stem seals that are causing the problem, which may explain the smoke that my car blows. When I say that it blows smoke, it doesn't pour out, it gives a little puff when you floor it, or snap it back a gear and force the revs up. I would have thought that if the seals were shot, it'd give a constant flow of smoke. However I might have to get them checked out.

Get it checked dude, your symptoms sound exactly the same as what I had - apparently it's a common problem on the high-performance honda engines, S2K, Prelude, etc - as the seals are quite weak and poor maintainence from a previous owner can cause them to leak somehow :confused: (cant remember what my mechanic said exactly... but yeah, he knows what he's on about - that's for sure :thumbsup: )

[jaffa_cree]

I am watching my engine oil levels regularly now to make sure no more engine oil is loss.

What oil do you all use/recommend?

I have been using the Honda FEO 10/30 oil.

[Menthu Rae]

I am watching my engine oil levels regularly now to make sure no more engine oil is loss.

What oil do you all use/recommend?

I have been using the Honda FEO 10/30 oil.

Using Honda FEO 10W/30, was using Mobil Formula R 10W/40 for 5000kms, but went back to FEO as it's not a bad oil and doesn't cost huge $$$ ;)

[shallot]

not sure, I just change my engine oil every 5000km

[racinghonda]

Get it checked dude, your symptoms sound exactly the same as what I had - apparently it's a common problem on the high-performance honda engines, S2K, Prelude, etc - as the seals are quite weak and poor maintainence from a previous owner can cause them to leak somehow :confused: (cant remember what my mechanic said exactly... but yeah, he knows what he's on about - that's for sure :thumbsup: )

Not "weak" they're just made to be as low friction as possible to allow high revs and high specific output but the down side is that the sealing surface isn't as large as conventional engines. Normally I would say its part and parcel of owning a high performance engine but the kind of oil consumption discussed here is out of the ordinary.

Also, when you pop open the bonnet after a decent drive (20min +) do you smell oil?

[Pero]

I have the same problem with my H22z too! It was about 3 months back (when i bought it), i changed the oil in my car, i used castrol magnetic 10-40 (cause thats wat the autobarn dude recommended). about 1 month later i noticed that vtec was abit lagging, so i checked the oil and there was hardly nothing on the dipstick. It would have lost close to 3L of oil.
I decided to try GTX3, 15-40..this was about 4 weeks back. I checked the oil 2 weeks ago, it was fine (oil was in middle of the dots). I went to check again about 5 minutes ago, absolutely no oil on the dipstick.
Now i'm thinking not to stuff around with these autobarn oils and just get honda oil. But still i cant believe im loosing so much oil in such a short period of time?? this scares me!
Another thing i noticed is that i can really smell oil burning when i am at traffic lights, i can only smell it sometimes not always.
I checked around the oil plug and i can't see any signs of oil leak there. Amperage i think i have the exact same problem as you have. Did u end up fixing it?

[Menthu Rae]

Pero and AMPERAGE - I have the same problem as you guys. My mechanic believes it's the oil rings - as I have good compression (195 across all four) but go through ~1L/1000km

I had my head all re-done (valve stem seals, and a few other goodies), and still getting that terrible oil usage - it's not leaking, I see a lot of VTEC, so it's either oil rings, OR all these guys who "dont use that much oil" dont hit VTEC as much as us...

Mrmmm... Replacing oil rings = $$$ =(

[Pero]

hehe yeh i noticed that when hitting the vtec range, it uses up a shitload of oil. hopefully we can work out the problem though, it just seems that its hard to find out what the problem actually is!
Lets hope that we dont have to fill up oil as much as we fill up petrol!

[mattyd]

guys im having the same problem with my DC5R. and it is exactly 1L per 1000kms. its doing my head in trying to find the right oil, and what the problem is without having to stip the block and rebuild from the rings up. Im pulling consistant power figures, my fuel consumption is extra ordinary even with vtec (getting about 520km out of 40 litres) compression test fine and leak down i havent had done yet. every mechanic i have spoken to has told me that there is nothing they can do and its just part of the engine, although i do suspect valve stem seals. how can i test this???
have you guys had any luck with finding your oil consumption problems?

[BlitZ]

ive got the same problem in my b16a2.
139,000kms..

jsut puffs alittle when flooring in vtec.
I burn heaps of oil..

i use FEO oil..

Performance wise my car is good as gold ..

I am thinking about a catch can..