RE: Toda Cam Gears

[Mooks79]

Ive got a standard b18c engine, thinking of changing the cam gear to adjustable well i get a little mre power out of it thanks............

[barefootbonzai]

won't be worth the money on a stock engine.

[kayot1k]

bro bro, check out bang for buck in your specific car thread.
dont ask stupid questions.

[Mooks79]

silly questionss ........sorry MR GEniusss..................... didnt kno tht u kno all ABOUT hondas



bro bro, check out bang for buck in your specific car thread.
dont ask stupid questions.

[rom5]

bro get a full exhaust system.....u got a jdm type r, might aswell make it sound like one!! :D

[pornstar]

for ur original question, yes you will make gains, but there are better first mods.

feel free to PM me for further enquiries

[syk]

i've read somewhere, cant remember exactly where, but with lighter cam pulleys/gears whatever you gain horsepower due to less weight restricting it or something? i mean if they are rotating the cams, if they are lighter they will be able to rotate at a faster pace, increasing the revolution of the engine... ?

i could be on the completely wrong track... someone correct me if i'm wrong :)

[joyride]

syk, its the AEM pulley kit youre talking about. the pulleys are have less rotational mass but ae slightly larger then OEM pulleys which make it free up some 'unused' hp.. i just made a thread about this in the technical section :)

[Malenic1981]

I am planning on getting HKS adjustable cam gears and I was gonna open up a topic as well but now I will just join in.
I have 4-1 headers, catback and apexi air intake, the boyz in honda tuning shop here in Perth "Garage R" told me that with all that plus HKS adjustable cam gears and Apexi Super AFC II dyno tuned by them I could bring my car from 139.1hp@wheels to around 150-155 that is 10-15hp gain on very low reading dyno it doesn't sound bad at all.
They told me that they dyno tune it by some jap honda book (all about tuning hondas)that they got from japan so it all works perfect and car remains very relible and so on. I did see few cars with this set up at their shop and power figures were very good.

I was looking at bang for buck in specific car thread for DC2R but most of that is for people that have lots of $$$$ plus all those boyz there (TODA AU, DynoDave) think that we are all millioners, it's eazy to mod with lots of $$$$$, what about the real low buget (their is $7000+ low buget??? I don't think that's low at all)
People are asking about simple modes that work and they are answering and backing up each other with something that we all know, bring the car to fancy tuning shop give them $10000 and car will go fast.

Now question is is this good mod for buck???
Does anyone know of any other simple modes that work???
Don't just tell us to go and look at that bang for buck tread, for most of us it's just dream to get even their low buget set up not to talk about more expensive ones.

[Malenic1981]

Forgot to say my car is DC2 integra type R

[syk]

thats very true, the fact that not everyone has a spare $5000+ lying around doesnt really portray a real 'low budget' plan for bang for buck mods etc, based on the thread by TODA AU (adrian).
I'm sure theres other ways to increase HP, but what i'm wondering... some people will spend $400 of a set of X-Force extractors... then others will spends $1300 on Toda's or even more on mugen's etc... is the extra couple of hp really worth the money? or are you better off saving a decent amount of money and putting that towards other stuff?
i know thats starting to get off topic, but i'm curious... because it seems that with honda's, everyone is just so 'pro-brand name'... but alot of other car forums, people will just get xforce stuff etc... namely nissansilvia.com etc...?

[mpd076-chuck]

Hey guys,

It's not that they think we are millionaires, it's that it's harder to get decent power gains out of a NA honda motor with parts that might work well on other cars. This is especially true for a DC2R. I don't think experienced Honda people are pro brand-name, they are pro what works. Imagine if Dyno Dave and Toda were recommending things that weren't tested and didn't work? That would be worse eh...

I have seen a DC2R with ONLY expensive extractors and a hi-flow cat beat a DC2R with intake and full Xforce extractors and exhaust system.

DC2R Bang for your Buck budget
- Do all labour yourself
- Change park plugs regularly and use a good brand of plug
- Use a good synth oil and change every 5000km's
- Use Highest Octane possible fuel
- replace small exhaust section between cat and stock extractors with a larger pipe and a hi flow cat
- install hondata intake manifold gasket
- Install K&N drop-in filter and remove front resonator, run pipe to airbox directly from front bumper
- Tune with cam gears and VAFC.
- Run stock wheels/lighter wheels and increase tyre pressures
- strip interior/stereo
- remove Power steering

And enjoy the rest of the car- its awesome brakes and its fun tail-out attitude.

[wynode]

thats very true, the fact that not everyone has a spare $5000+ lying around doesnt really portray a real 'low budget' plan for bang for buck mods etc, based on the thread by TODA AU (adrian).
I'm sure theres other ways to increase HP, but what i'm wondering... some people will spend $400 of a set of X-Force extractors... then others will spends $1300 on Toda's or even more on mugen's etc... is the extra couple of hp really worth the money? or are you better off saving a decent amount of money and putting that towards other stuff?
i know thats starting to get off topic, but i'm curious... because it seems that with honda's, everyone is just so 'pro-brand name'... but alot of other car forums, people will just get xforce stuff etc... namely nissansilvia.com etc...?

It's because with Honda's it is a lot harder to get power out of them NA because of the good job that has been done out of the factory. Sure you can spend much less on a 'non brand name' product but you either won't gain anymore power or will actually loose power.

Who else to take advice from but the experts and their recommendations?

[vti-2]

thats very true, the fact that not everyone has a spare $5000+ lying around doesnt really portray a real 'low budget' plan for bang for buck mods etc, based on the thread by TODA AU (adrian).
I'm sure theres other ways to increase HP, but what i'm wondering... some people will spend $400 of a set of X-Force extractors... then others will spends $1300 on Toda's or even more on mugen's etc... is the extra couple of hp really worth the money? or are you better off saving a decent amount of money and putting that towards other stuff?
i know thats starting to get off topic, but i'm curious... because it seems that with honda's, everyone is just so 'pro-brand name'... but alot of other car forums, people will just get xforce stuff etc... namely nissansilvia.com etc...?

'Pro-brand name' parts are proven and many people modifying their N/A Honda's tend to go with what is tried, tested and proven to work and that is to work reliably time and time again. That is what you pay for when you decide to go N/A. It has always been like that and always will be in part due to the brilliant Honda engineering. I would never buy a cheaper brand of headers or cam gears simply to save money in an effort to chase more power from an N/A motor. And i think that is the philosophy of many serious Honda owners who have owned their cars for several years and are into modifying their cars. Its not just about saving money, in many cases it is about buying the best available product, knowing it will work reliably for the lifespan of the ownership of the car. A Spoon or Toda product, generally, wont let you down and that is the difference between Toda and XYZ brand.


But that is really another discussion and this is starting to get off topic. Can we please answer the original question.

Malenic1981, i think it would be best to start a new thread as your questions are not really directly related to the original question. :)

[Malenic1981]

We did go a bit off topic (sorry about that), but I think that mpd076-chuck put up a good bang for buck set up there.

[dark8]

hello guys...

although new to the forum, im not really new to the civics. Mine is quite old right now with about 170k on it, but its been running with the gear i put on it right from the start.

As for the original question about the cam pulleys, if u r going to do them, r you thinking about the cams as well? if u have to change pulleys and adjust cam overlap etc, its gonna take a while on the dyno, i know coz i have spoon cams and it took me half a day on the dyno to get best overlap on it while maintaining balanced power and torque graph (and it still looks like crap with a slight dip when vtec engages).

Time is critical because to us cheapies time = $$$. Changing pulleys and then sticking on SAFC might be good for now. But u have to ask yourself are you going to do spec a (or street cams) as well. If you are then your SAFC will be basically useless as it wont be able to tune at enough RPM points to help you gain max power.

If i were you, I'd save up the extra $$$ get a set of CTR cams (more aggressive than ITR cams) and then tune it properly. You'd be amazed at what sort of power you get.

On my tired B16A2 with spoon cams, cam pulleys, 2.5inch tanabe exhaust, "hot" air filter (havent got money for CAI again as i pulled it apart originally as i couldnt wash the damn filter under the body kit) and Perfect Power SMT5 piggyback i pulled 96kw at the wheels. I was disappointed with that figure, but when put into perspective, a stock ITR from factory (allowing build tolerances etc) i gather makes about 98kw to 100+ kw at wheels. So it wasnt quite a bad job.
cams cost me $1000
piggyback cost me about $600
install and tuning cost me about $600
and ive been running at that reliable stage since 100k.

I guess in a nutshell what im trying to say is, if you dont want further mods while the bonnets up to put in the pulleys then yeah go for your life. Or maybe at the moment "future proof" yourself and get a worthwhile piggy back. The way i see it is, electronics dont "wear out" like mechanicals (cams, flywheels, exhausts) etc. Their depreciation wont be THAT much i guess (unless a new model comes out), but at least if u want to upgrade more, then u dont need to spend the money on the ECU again. Proper tuning leads to max hp i guess.

My 2 cents

[syk]

Thanks Wynode and Vti-2 for that... i mean, i suppose being a uni student i'm not earning the amount most people here would be, so i'm trying to justify buying the xforce extractors myself haha :)

But i can see exactly what your saying, and appreciate the replies. Eventually, once dynodave has completed the development of his header for b18c7 i'll invest in those and go from there.

cheer's

-Dean

[pornstar]

dark8 : where did u get the tune done?

[dark8]

its a long story...but to cut it short, i travelled to adelaide to do it. The tuner used to work for Motec then autronic so i'd say he's pretty good.

guys name is Jiri (pronounced Yuri). was relative of a guy that owned renegade in caulfield which shut shop after about 1 yr....left me stuck with no where to go but to adelaide to dial my cams in.

[shmivic]

sorry to hijack but anyone here roughly no the degrees to retard or advance toda b using toda cam gears
i read about -2 on both int and exh with +4 on timing is about there

[TODA AU]

I was looking at bang for buck in specific car thread for DC2R but most of that is for people that have lots of $$$$ plus all those boyz there (TODA AU, DynoDave) think that we are all millioners, it's eazy to mod with lots of $$$$$, what about the real low buget (their is $7000+ low buget??? I don't think that's low at all)

I think you kinda missed the point.
The original intent of that post was to save you guys money so you don't waste money on stuff that doesn't offer a reasonable performance gain for dollar spent. Though not everything is cheap, it is better value that buying something that you think might work, but in reality is nothing more than a placebo.
Also, to set the record straight, neither Dave nor myself think any of you are millionaries. In fact, it would be closer to the truth to say, the reason you've got a honda, 9 times out of 10 is because you've got no money.
In any case, I can't please all of the people, all of the time.

Also, FWIW
You'd be better off with a VAFC II over an SAFC with your cam gears.

[Malenic1981]

TODA AU don't get me wrong, I would love to have $$$$ so I can just come to good tuning shop and say I want to make this car fast and blabla bla here you go $20000 do what ever you think is the best, but in reality that is just a dream.

Why do you think VAFC II is better than SAFC with cam gears???
I heard VAFC II does nothing, in some examples people even lost some power.

[dark8]

vafc II does the same as SAFC, plus able to adjust vtec kick in...

its all about the tuning...not the product