Worked NA motor - how far?

[spetz]

How far can a NA motor be worked but still retaining stock internals and stock ECU (with piggyback)

ie, what's the biggest cams that can be put on and so on?
And, what % power increase can be made from all this?

eg. a B18C VTEC (not ITR) motor

[barefootbonzai]

isn't changing cams messing with the internals?

[spetz]

To clarify things then, with stock bottom end
Any reasonable modifications to head allowed (porting, cams, valve springs, cam gears)

[SKREMN]

why cant bottom end be touched
the cams complement the pistons
so you cant go crazzy lumpy high comp cams with stock low comp pistons
its a package

[Weq]

well it can be worked as much as u can afford. u can replace everything on the topend but are always going to be limited by the compression of the pistons and strength of the rods. that means some wild NA cams require XX amount of comp, and if u cant provide, u cant run em. Also each motor will be different to how much u can spin the bottom end stock. compression and head flow (CFM) is the key on NA. u gotta do as much as u can to gain as much as u can. not messing with the bottom end will only allow u to get prolly .5-1pt over stock if ur lucky (flat face valves, thinner HG). also u need a piggyback which allows u to remove revlimiters.

[spetz]

Well that's the problem, I don't have unlimited amounts of money

So it has to be stock internals and piggyback only, which doesn't allow the rev limiter to be taken off


hmphh... so expensive...

[locote]

save a bit more bub

[spetz]

No I can't...
The engine is getting rebuilt now, and I don't have the $$$ to do internals now.

Besides, after internals then I'll have to do gearbox, and ECU when I already have an emanage.

It just starts getting out of hand the $$$

[turbo_del_sol]

Time to vist the bank,
Unfortunately, modding hondas (turbo or NA) Isn't cheap, and I would strongly advise you not to cut corners, because then it will only cost more in the end.

[barefootbonzai]

You should stop saying internals, cause doing headwork is internals. So what is it that is happening to your engine atm when you say "rebuilt"?

Here's was my friends old B16A2 setup:

Toda A spec Cam
Toda adjusting Cam pulleys
Toda uprated Egg shape Valve Springs
Head pored and polished
Mugen thinner head gasket

Tuned with PowerFC

He he got - 117.4kw @ the wheel

I guess with all that in your car and a correct tune you should expect more power since your would be 1.8L

[spetz]

The B18C was just an example, I don't have one


What I mean by rebuilt,
Well leaving bolt ons aside, internal work includes full service, acid dipping etc of heads with port polish (standard cams, springs, valves)
Balanced bottom end, with now rings, gaskets, bearings, pumps, conrods shot peened


Basically, just an overhaul of the engine. Other bolts on as well but they are from the outside.
The engine is a V6 too and everything cost so much :(

[bennyBear]

the next person that considers E-manage an intellegent ecu... i will scream.

If you dont need your car straight away, try and do it in stages, getting it all done while the motor is out is going to save you on labour in the long run!!

[spetz]

I do need the car :(
I am just wondering how far an engine can go with stock internals

And emanage is good! I mean, for a piggyback computer which is so cheap, what more can you want

[ProECU]

And emanage is good! I mean, for a piggyback computer which is so cheap, what more can you want

I dunno, how about something that works?

[yourfather]

wtf,
hondata is almost same price ballpark as the greddy

[todaek9]

save up more money to get power FC...

[spetz]

Why what do people think is wrong with an emanage?
For a piggyback computer it can do everything you would want on a mildly modified engine

[yourfather]

yeah but for the same amount of money you can get something that is more customizable.

[rev-tech]

if your pulling the head off, you could shave it a little to increase the CR?

[spetz]

I was thinking of shaving the head to do that
How safe is this?

[pillow]

yeah but for the same amount of money you can get something that is more customizable.

You do realise that Spetz doesn't have a Honda....so no Hondata, dunno what's available for the MIVEC's

[rev-tech]

I was thinking of shaving the head to do that
How safe is this?

depends on the CR the car runs std...if ti's reasonably low then bumping it up will be fine....but if it's already quite hi, then it's prob more volitile

i've also heard that it can change your valve timing slighty