CVT or Manual ?

[Quuquu]

Guys I cant decide between the two for my new VTIS...

I perceive that CVT will make the car more marketable should I sell them in a few years time. I've always believed that I can always sell 2k more over a manual and hence also more marketable.

In the past I had trouble selling my manual toyota corolla with so many advertised.

However, this is a "sport" car so to speak, hence I wonder, is manual more popular ??

what are the pros and cons of CVT vs a manual ? I believe its the belt if its broken is really expensive. I'm planning to keep this car for 10 years, basically not selling and passing to my kids along the way, but not incur a hefty 10k simply to replace the CVT that worths more than the car's value.

I'm not a car expert, but in fact starting to build interest in cars by purchasing this vehicle.

any comments is very much appreciated.

[Catcha]

Sports car ?? where did you get that idea. When I brought my car I jumped in a jazz with CVT the sales guy show us how it work and make it look real cool to change gears on the steering wheel. Unless its a M3 or a Enzo the semi automatic paddle shift I don't think the technology has yet to be filtered down to be as good as the above.

Ok so we stop the car I jump in, drove it first impression, it sucked as I knew a small capacity engine mated to a auto will not have any go just like the lancer I still have. the Changing gears on the steering wheel is just a gimmick better to leave it in auto mode. Floor the car well, don't seem to go anywhere. Took the car around and told the sales guy I wanted a Manual to test drive.

First impression nice and slick gear box, with 4 people in the car compared to the auto it acutally did quite well and got up to speed in line with traffic. Its like loading a WRX up with a full car load and racing it won't get those low 14's 0-400 times. with two people in the car its a pretty zippy little thing and my dad was commenting how zippy it was for such a car.

In the end I brought the VTI-S model, why compare to VTI and etc. Cause If i brought a VTI. I would be incline to add mags and stuff which I did while doing the deal, but in the end it nearly added to the cost of a VTI-S and I thought that whole package was great, So I choose that instead.

Auto will break and wear and tear, but it will be so much cheaper to replace a clutch than auto box, want cheaper repair cost go manual.

resale well if you going to keep the car for 10 years plus why worry about resale ?

only real reason I see people getting a auto jazz is that they can't drive manual or its a family member or have to share the car etc etc

[08ESE]

ive driven both, i'd take manual, but the cvt is quite good.

[ahcash]

personal preference... some CVT owners said they want to go back to Manual, some Manual owners said they want to go to CVT.. yadi yada yada.. Pay more to get a CVT but can sell more because it is a CVT..

FYI, CVT is not belt driven.. it has chain inside and hence chances of breaking is very minimal..

My views: (here I go with my sh1t..)

- CVT cost more to replace than Manual if disaster strikes..
- I have both Manual (diff car) and CVT and I love driving a CVT with the F1 inspired paddle shift (fake gear shift) and have a bit of fun pretending to be Juan Pablo.
- I love CVT in traffic hence my foot got really tired with manual in traffic..
- I love CVT in long trip as it product the maximum amount of torque at any speed and not compromise on fuel.
- I love Manual when I have mods to the car (exhaust) and it sounds just right ..not flat..
- I love Manual ... Urrrrr... don't have to pay extra for the automatic...hence cheaper to buy new cars..
- I love Manual as not many people in the household can drive it and hence I get to keep the car to myself.. (not being selfish.. they can drive the CVT...)

Enuff of my bull... I STFU!!!

P.S. technically speaking with the calculation in theory.. see the picture below.. (please note this calculation applies to MT and CVT not specifically to Jazz...)

http://cvt.com.sapo.pt/performances/MT_CVT_Power.gif

[UNLS1]

get the man, its quicker and the CVT gets very boring.....Its to hard to change gears with the paddle shift when ur trying to turn and if u just rev the car to the limiter it just changes to the next gear for u so the use of paddle shift is???? lol

Just go get man....how i wish we had a man vti demo....

[TGZ-Jay]

ahcash: well said bro! :) for me i got myself a manual! i guess it all come down to it personal preferences! :)

[Jus-10]

Autos are for girls....plain and simple

In 10 years do you still think an auto Jazz will command a $2000 premium over manual?

[aaronng]

Not sure about AUDM Jazz, but does it have an S mode on the CVT? The sedan version of the Fit has an S mode where when you floor the accelerator, the revs shoot up to the peak power rpm and it holds it there while the ratios change in order to maximise acceleration. That alone might make it stand against other manual Jazz's.

Edit: It does have an S mode. When you test drive, try it out. :)

[Pogi]

i have a cvt...its for lazy people..not for girls :)

its easy to thrash and is convenient for city driving..shame theres no cruise control...

[Jus-10]

Convenient for city driving??? The Jazz clutch is one of the lightest things going...I could push it in with my pinky...hahaha

I was only stirring. but seriously, autos suck.

But that's just me...drive both and get what you like man. No one else gives a rats what you get because no one else has to drive it! (Well peeps from here anyway)

[aaronng]

If you have only driven auto, then auto will be best. I went from auto to manual and cannot go back ever. I used a Subaru outback 3.0 H6 auto over the weekend and it was terrible. I preferred my manual. I bet that in 40 years I would be dying to switch back to auto.

[Catcha]

If you can drive manual and other family memebers can without too much trouble get a manual it so much better.

Even with overtaking planting your foot down on the auto feels like you going nowhere, at least in manual your a bit faster, this also safety issue for me.

I drove the Jazz to litchfield in Darwin for a swim at the waterfalls , where you have long stretches or highway and long road trains 4 carriage long .....needed to overtake one droped it into 3rd and went for it, pick up was good by the time I past it I was doing 150kph from 100kph. I had a 2km view of clear road before I did this.

[civiceg9]

You can drive the CVT in the 7speed mode all the time, the car actually feels more alive. the CVT just feels lazy when on normal mode, but I can eat my breakfast in one hand while going to work lol :D

[vividjazz]

The CVT is a lot better than a traditional slush box. The gearing ratio means it revs lower on the open road than the manual and consequently results in marginally lower fuel consumption.

Temple of VTEC Asia pulled consistant sub 9 sec 0-100km/hr times with the CVT. They didn't do times on the manual but there would be very little in it either way.

The rubber band effect of the CVT makes it not feel as fast as a manual but anyone experienced with the wet clutch on motorcyles will be more at home with the sensation. Likewise the sensation of a car doing 0-100km/hr in 3 seconds would feel faster than a bike (which consequently do these times and then go on past 200km/hr in around 7 seconds with 3 or 4 more gears to go).

Resale side of things the CVT is more than a $2,000 extra new (making it more expensive than a trad auto) which of course won't be carried as the price difference to MT 2nd hand but could be the difference between being able to sell the car at all. Even if you think the CVT is just for girls this means by buying a manual you just more than halved the resale market for your Jazz. That said when your selling you only need 1 buyer regardless of the size of the pool of potential buyers.

The days of manual transmissions are numbered. The VW Golf GTi DSG and the BMW SMG are a sign to the future. Look also at WRC and F1. Like with other technologies it will filter down into mainstream cars it just takes a lot longer than it does for bikes. Bikes are 2 years from race track to road while cars are more often more than 10 years.

As for the CVT being boring compared to a manual, the Jazz is dead boring compared to a bike but at the end of the day its horses for courses.

[civiceg9]

Yeah the CVT is smooth, but sometime I feel like I am driving a vacum clearner
all i hear is weeeeeeeeee :D

[Judge]

I had owned various cars from RX3 Turbos to Clio Sports, and ig ot an Auto VTIS for pure practicality.

i enjoy the Auto dirinv in the city, its much less hassle. Other cars i have woned have all been prety fast, so i drove the manual Jazz and though to myself, this is ordinary, why do all this unnecessary chanign for a car like the jass, its just not worth it, it is marginally more satisfying to drive a manual jazz then an auto jazz, to me the CVT was a good choice.

It offered me practicality, i dont think it made the Jazz a slug by any means, and the paddel shift is fun. its not as refined as an M3, but it was an extra incentive for me to get the Auto. The only people who dont like the paddel shift are those that dont have it.

The jazz is not a racer, it doesn't benefit from having a manual gearbox, i dont know why people say that a manual jazz is such a better car, at the end of the day it is still and entry level honda, and is designed for practicality, not for quick spurts of traffic lights.

the Auto is a easier car to sell.... especially the Vtis.

[Poeter]

I chose the manual because it makes the package alot cheaper.

2k extra for an auto box. That's around 10% extra which i think isn't worth it.

If i was choosing the transmission for the accord euro, that's a different story.

Buying an accord euro auto will cost around 6% more which doesn't differ as much when buying manual/auto Jazz.

However, as an automatic small car, the Jazz probably has the best automatic gearbox in its class. Unlike, the Yaris, Colt, etc, it's got a 7 speed tiptronic gearbox.

[UNLS1]

Yeah the CVT is smooth, but sometime I feel like I am driving a vacum clearner
all i hear is weeeeeeeeee :D


lol so funny yet so true

[vividjazz]

Yeah the CVT is smooth, but sometime I feel like I am driving a vacum clearner
all i hear is weeeeeeeeee :D

At least it sucks like a Dyson not like a Daewoo. Just turn the stereo up!

[civiceg9]

Upgrade my stereo soon
but don't know if I should get those $150 Mp3 unit which are on sale now
or save up abit more and get something better.

[vividjazz]

They are still doing runouts on the entry level Pioneer MP3 units but the whole 2005 range should be clearing with the new 2006 models coming on soon. Main difference going up the Pioneer range is just the number of RCA outputs and looks.

[muli]

Convenient for city driving??? The Jazz clutch is one of the lightest things going...I could push it in with my pinky...hahaha

I was only stirring. but seriously, autos suck.

But that's just me...drive both and get what you like man. No one else gives a rats what you get because no one else has to drive it! (Well peeps from here anyway)

even the gearknob can be pushed with your pinky :) If you can drive manual very good then just stick with auto, less likely chance of being a statistic

[miss_vtec]

I drive a CVT and have nothing but nice things to say about it :thumbsup:

[BiLL|z0r]

I had a CVT Jazz VTi as a loan car when my Euro was in for it's 1000K service and hated it. I left it in 7 speed mode for most of the time cause the CVT felt like I was running on 2 cylinders until I reached a decent amount of rpm. I drive most city driving and you realisticly don't reach the "power" rpm range that often in stop/start traffic without looking like a rice wannabe.

I say if you and your fam can drive a manual, get the manual. If ya can only drive an ayto (like me), get a Euro ;) Best auto box I've ever driven (ignoring the 20K price gap, hehe)

[Catcha]

Guys I cant decide between the two for my new VTIS...

I perceive that CVT will make the car more marketable should I sell them in a few years time. I've always believed that I can always sell 2k more over a manual and hence also more marketable.

In the past I had trouble selling my manual toyota corolla with so many advertised.

However, this is a "sport" car so to speak, hence I wonder, is manual more popular ??

what are the pros and cons of CVT vs a manual ? I believe its the belt if its broken is really expensive. I'm planning to keep this car for 10 years, basically not selling and passing to my kids along the way, but not incur a hefty 10k simply to replace the CVT that worths more than the car's value.

I'm not a car expert, but in fact starting to build interest in cars by purchasing this vehicle.

any comments is very much appreciated.

Have you had a test drive of the auto and manual to compare yet ?????

[Poeter]

They are still doing runouts on the entry level Pioneer MP3 units but the whole 2005 range should be clearing with the new 2006 models coming on soon. Main difference going up the Pioneer range is just the number of RCA outputs and looks.

I wonder what the new one looks like. :rolleyes:

[ACE888]

If you have the CVT tranny, I guarantee you can outrace, outdrag and beat any car to 7th gear (except the new Mercedez Benz with their new 7G transmissions).

Imagine the lights go green, you're side by side with a s2000, the s2000 pulls away but gets stuck in 6th gear when the Jazz CVT moves along, then slots nicely into 7th gear......you have a winner, Honda Jazz, totally fantastic!

(Disclaimer:- I know they are artificial points of the CVT transmission only and not actual gears)

[Catcha]

If you have the CVT tranny, I guarantee you can outrace, outdrag and beat any car to 7th gear (except the new Mercedez Benz with their new 7G transmissions).

Imagine the lights go green, you're side by side with a s2000, the s2000 pulls away but gets stuck in 6th gear when the Jazz CVT moves along, then slots nicely into 7th gear......you have a winner, Honda Jazz, totally fantastic!

(Disclaimer:- I know they are artificial points of the CVT transmission only and not actual gears)

Hmm how do you figure that it will win against an S2000???, having 7 gears don't not mean its faster :D

[aaronng]

The S mode is better. The RPMs shoot up to peak power RPM, which is about 6000rpm. And then it maintains it to extract every last drop of acceleration that your engine can give. Why have 7 shift points when all you need is a constant 81kW @ 6000rpm?

[Jus-10]

If you have the CVT tranny, I guarantee you can outrace, outdrag and beat any car to 7th gear (except the new Mercedez Benz with their new 7G transmissions).

Imagine the lights go green, you're side by side with a s2000, the s2000 pulls away but gets stuck in 6th gear when the Jazz CVT moves along, then slots nicely into 7th gear......you have a winner, Honda Jazz, totally fantastic!

(Disclaimer:- I know they are artificial points of the CVT transmission only and not actual gears)

Ummm yeah OK.....

[kongfu]

If u wanna your jazz for normal drive get the CVT!

[TypeG]

i sold my Jazz manual the first week the first call
i think it all depends on the car
Honda always better
=)

[TypeG]

If you have the CVT tranny, I guarantee you can outrace, outdrag and beat any car to 7th gear (except the new Mercedez Benz with their new 7G transmissions).

Imagine the lights go green, you're side by side with a s2000, the s2000 pulls away but gets stuck in 6th gear when the Jazz CVT moves along, then slots nicely into 7th gear......you have a winner, Honda Jazz, totally fantastic!

(Disclaimer:- I know they are artificial points of the CVT transmission only and not actual gears)

:D nice concept

[Jazzle]

type-g.. u sold ur car?? wat ugonna get next?? =)

[Tony]

I sold my Jazz the day after I advertise on carsales too :p It's a 2003 VTi-S manual and I got $18000 for it.

TypeG: Congrats on the sale. What's next? My K24 JDM Type R is almost ready.. hehehe

[TypeG]

what's next
Euro unfortuanely coz i recognise i cant really afford to maintain a Europ car

send me pix in msn tony
cant wait to see it
hehe

[jnancarrow]

The staff at the dealership where we bought the Jazz tried selling us the CVT. My other 1/2 thought it was OK to drive, but felt the car was a bit slow and the paddle shift a little gimicky.

[Sherweeeny]

being a 1.5 and having 0-100 in excess of 10seconds, i really think a manual is required. when i was in school, my best friend had a cvt vti-s... its alright for cruising in, but the tiptronic function is a joke and would be better off not existing, but yeah depends what you want the car for, and trust me, the vti-s isnt 'sporty', even if it kind of looks like it

[sodaz]

The Jazz is a nice car but really it isn't more of a "sports" car than say a Toyota Yaris. IMO, it'll be easier to sell later if you get the auto version. The CVT transmission is very smooth from my experience but sounds damn weird when you floor it cause there's no gear change sound and has a constant BRRRRR sound when you reach peak RPM. The paddle shifter is definitely a gimmick.

[vividjazz]

From Asian temple of VTEC (BTW the results were with CVT)
http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/JazzVtec/index.html

"the Jazz 1.5 VTEC returned quite unexpectedly good results, to me at least. It consistently did the 0-60mph run at a time of between 8.7 to 9.0 seconds for an average of just above 8.8 seconds !! This was really astonishing especially at the time I was doing the runs. By comparison, the 'reference' cars in the mid-sized and full-sized 'sports-sedan' segment, the Civic 2.0 i-VTEC and the local Accord 2.4 i-VTEC returned averaged times of 8.5 and 8.6 seconds respectively, not a lot faster than what the Jazz did !"

[fundies]

I've definitely grown to love the cvt tranny. I was doubtful at first, but it works smoothly and efficiently. I like using the paddle shifters every now and then as well, and I'd say they are not a gimmick if you use them on the right road (i.e cranking around the bends in the Royal National Park:p). My car with 16 inch wheels and better rubber absolutely flies through twisty roads ( and I've owned some quick cars and bikes in my time), it's a hoot.

[panda[cRx]]

the cvt are nice to drive but there are a few known problems. if i was buying one to keep outside the warranty period i would get a manual, if i was only planning on having it in the warranty period then i'd go the cvt

[jr05]

CVT definitely, dont bother to change gears which costs longer than clicking the pad.

[Alun]

The CVT was the deal maker in choosing the Jazz. I've driven both manual and auto versions and like both for their strengths. I wouldn't say it's much of a sport car. A couple of my friends each have a manual Jazz. They thrash them to hell and go places a bit faster. Plus the suspension makes for a nice soft ride with loads of body roll. We took my girlfriend's auto on a 2 week road trip last year through 3 states, fully loaded with camping gear and food. Couldn't have asked for a better car for the job.

For the practicality, size, economy, & smoooooth acceleration, no other car is better. For me it feels like it was engineered to have the CVT from the beginning and had the manual put in for the rest of the market. The paddle shifters ... Feels to me like Honda is testing the CVT waters and this is their proof of concept. Throw everything in and see what makes it sell.

Find me another smallish car that can fit 2 mountain bikes inside, with a CVT of some sort that gets the fuel economy of the Jazz. I'm shopping around and still havn't found anything.

[hoey888]

with the jazz, the auto is alright, response it adequate for everyday driving. However if you decide to do some modifications, like a pod air filter, this will definately change your perception of the jazz auto/manual. Yes the CVT does limit you in the sense that it automatically shifts up and down accordingly, but its like a electronic measure so you don't over rev the engine.

if your lazy and other family members around, get the CVT. with a couple of mods you'll think of it as another car. and plus you can say its auto, so its not a fast car nor its quick. Saying that, drive it properly it can handle as well as cars that are more presigious and powerful. eg evos, wrx, bmw

if you wanting to be stingy and worry about fuel economy and don't mind using the clutch then thats also ok

[minix33]

well to be honest any car enthusiest who would be buying a 2nd hand car can get a more 'sporty' car than the jazz for the price of a 2nd hand one
so you would be aiming to resell your car to people who just got their license and hav parents who wanna buy their kids safe cars for a deent price.
because the jazz in fwd it is a great car to learn in and so is auto transmission, i think you auto jazz would be more appealing as a resale.

but however if you personally are a more sporty person, manual is the only way to go.

[Vinnie]

Saying that, drive it properly it can handle as well as cars that are more presigious and powerful. eg evos, wrx, bmw

lol... of course it would, itd be going at half the speed :p

[UNLS1]

the cvt is a good auto if u need to get from A to B and ur not really into driving a car.
I cant stand it, but i can see the pros for that tranny and why people would get it.

the manual makes that jazz a bit more spark. and it doesnt drone like the cvt, an nowhere near as boring!

[kongfu]

JAZZ is good for daily use. CVT is very reliable and easy to drive.

[panda[cRx]]

JAZZ is good for daily use. CVT is very reliable and easy to drive.

yes you can rely on the start clutch or even the whole trans to require replacement in 5 years or so lol

the CVT is the only thing stopping me from buying a jazz for my missus. they're a great lil car but the CVT is prone to a few problems

[hoey888]

lol... of course it would, itd be going at half the speed :p

... now ain't you underestimating it a bit there? If your willing to push it you'll be surprised how its tuned from factory. It understeers a bit however you'll be amazed the speed it can hold in corners...

[SassyV]

I've driven both, but I own a manual Jazz myself, personally I think the manual gives it a bit more umpf, and you can control the car more.

[Vinnie]

... now ain't you underestimating it a bit there? If your willing to push it you'll be surprised how its tuned from factory. It understeers a bit however you'll be amazed the speed it can hold in corners...

arent you overestimating it a bit, mentioning it with rexes and evos? lets just settle that it has good balance for what it was designed to be, a small economy car :)

[kongfu]

;1483382']yes you can rely on the start clutch or even the whole trans to require replacement in 5 years or so lol

the CVT is the only thing stopping me from buying a jazz for my missus. they're a great lil car but the CVT is prone to a few problems

Thats your own opinion. You buy whatever you like.

cheers

[preludacris]

;1483382']yes you can rely on the start clutch or even the whole trans to require replacement in 5 years or so lol

the CVT is the only thing stopping me from buying a jazz for my missus. they're a great lil car but the CVT is prone to a few problems

i am totally in the same boat. was actually suprised not to see more of these type of replys in this thread.

mum wants a new car. jazz is perfect, but she wants an auto, and the cvt jazz tranny is prone to failing.

so its either a manual jazz, or a diff car....

US have already resolved this prob by chucking in regular 5 speed auto trannies in their jazz's.

[hoey888]

mum wants a new car. jazz is perfect, but she wants an auto, and the cvt jazz tranny is prone to failing.

so its either a manual jazz, or a diff car....


What does it matter, if your buying it now Honda Australia is throwing in a 5 year factory warranty and roadside assist. So who cares if it breaks, chances are its covered under warranty

[<4n'D>]

you're right, but then its a huge pain in the ass and could hurt resale value. my 05' jazz had no problems with cvt though, and honestly thats the best platform to enjoy the jazz on.

better still you can wait for the new one to arrive in australia...

[4thGenExi]

Whats the reliability like on the 5spd manual Jazz? I've only had mine a few months, but how about say a 3-4 year old model. Any known issues?

[95331140]

The yanks got the conventional automatic transmission because they would think there is a problem with the transmission if they got the CVT there!

True story

[dahon]

The yanks got the conventional automatic transmission because they would think there is a problem with the transmission if they got the CVT there!

True story

EDIT......

personally manuals the best to go, i love my manual car, especially for cruising around at night, but cvt is reliable and more fuel efficient (why else did u buy a jazz?), i can go 0-80 going @ under 1900rpm. got a cvt civic from 96, no problems whatsoever. great to drive in super long traffic jams (m5 is annoying in the mornings - i dont see how i could drive a manual there everyday). unreliable? cvts breaking? in no way have i heard from anyone or experienced anything wrong with the transmission at all.. regular maintenance is all u need.. like any other car part... plus it gives you optimum torque at that rev and an variable ratio set.. awesome invention if u ask me.. if you want a daily then cvts the way to go..

[Zilli]

WTF??? ^^^^^

Anyway, its a cheap reliable piece of transportation... why are you worried about reliability it's a 1.5 litre transport vehicle... just do the appropriate servicing and and make sure you observe the way it shifts before you buy it (if its second hand). From what ive heard, stay away from the CVT, later models are now conventional auto. You would probably want the manual to get as much as you can out of it.

[95331140]

The Yanks are so much smarter they already have the new transmission the rest of the world is just now getting because the CVT is no more Honda finally saw the light and shitcanned the CVT because it's a piece of junk. Just read the CVT posts on this site if you have never heard of the well known CVT problems.

Any links for this info? Wouldn't mind reading it...Would also be interested to know if the updated 2008 jazz has a CVT or not.

[backdog]

Sorry guys but the CVT will fail, in the beginning you will just feel a slight shudder on take off. Then pretty soon it will viabrate the fillings out of your teeth. Ive seen them wearing in as little as 10,000 kms. unless you have deep pockets GET THE MANUAL.

[Jazzer23]

I gotta agree there. I absolutely hate the CVT gearbox in my jazz, but I can't complain since the car was a bit of a hand me down. The gearbox issue will be fixed when a K20 comes along though....

Anyway, back to the CVT. It's really noisy, slows the car down a lot since it lets the engine rev like hell from the start but doesn't really help it go anywhere fast, and the steering wheel mounted shifters are just plain retarded since it doesn't let me downshift most of the time. It's the only flaw in what I think is a damn good small hatch.

[Jazzdude]

Sorry guys but the CVT will fail, in the beginning you will just feel a slight shudder on take off. Then pretty soon it will viabrate the fillings out of your teeth. Ive seen them wearing in as little as 10,000 kms. unless you have deep pockets GET THE MANUAL.

I had that shudder problem but it went away when I changed the CVT oil. I've just had the service done and the cars' running like new again *touch wood* I actually like the CVT compared to a conventional auto as the CVT ride is much smoother (you don't feel the gear changes...cus there aren't any).