NSX, 12 second 400m?

[spetz]

Just watching some video's on the net,
Namely NSX against a few cars. In one video the NSX pulls off a 12.8 quarter.

It is a Type S, and it's in Japanese but I think it is stock as they say 280ps for it. Now... an NSX isn't THAT quick is it????

[Fr3aKi3]

Was it a best motoring video clip?

Was it a Type S, or a S Zero?
The S Zero had a fair bit of weight taken out of it from memory, although i'm not too sure how much.

[EGB16A]

the one against the lambo and ferrari etc etc

[dc4t]

apparently its a special release version.. like the gtr with its z tune shit or watever. it apparently does a 12.4 normally.. i find that damnn impressive GOOO HONDAA FARKEN

[Ferrari]

Ye I got the one where it beats the Ferrari F355 12.387 quarter something like that

[J-MuN]

Link to video?

[spetz]

Sorry I don't have the link, if I find it I will post it


It was just a Type S.

To be honest I was starting to think it was rigged, as 12.8 is too quick

And yeah, is the video series which is against a E46 M3, 996 Porsche I think, R33 V-Spec, Ferrari 355

[dc4t]

its an s zero.. special release. not hard to believe considerin its weightless pretty much

[weezer]

those Best Motoring vids can be found here http://nsxprime.com/Gallery/multimedia/multimedia.htm

along with heaps of other ones :)

[EGB16A]

the one i'm refering to is none of those.
i got a best motoring dvd with the nsx (white type S from memory) Vs ferrari f430 Vs porshe gt3 (club edition) Vs lambo galardo Vs sl55 amg

best motoring edition 17 from memory :D

[spetz]

http://www.kris.1000lecie.pl/filmy/page_01.htm

Here you go guys, the first few is what I am talking about...

Let me know what you guys think

[integraz]

Wasn't it a TYPE-R? this is the one, where the nsx practically leads the whole race.. then over heats and dies and comes 3rd?

Double checked: Yep it was, NSX-R:wave:

[Fr3aKi3]

Wasn't it a TYPE-R? this is the one, where the nsx practically leads the whole race.. then over heats and dies and comes 3rd?

Double checked: Yep it was, NSX-R:wave:

I think you watched a differently clip. The one you're referring to is a lap race, the one the original poster is talking about is a quarter mile drag.

[^^v]

Just watching some video's on the net,
Namely NSX against a few cars. In one video the NSX pulls off a 12.8 quarter.

It is a Type S, and it's in Japanese but I think it is stock as they say 280ps for it. Now... an NSX isn't THAT quick is it????
yes they are that quick...
i think the one u watched was an S-Zero... was suposed to be a kinda replacement for the first gen type r (weight reduction etc).. until they released the newer current Type R... which is faster:D

[NeoNode]

MR layout too, so power loss from the drivetrain should be alot less compared to say a FR layout.

[spetz]

The new Type R NSX is even faster?

Well... new found respect for NSX's...
I always thought they were an overpriced semi sports car... in the sense that it is a sports car but always lacked straight line speed. Always thought a rex with upped boost and exhaust would own an NSX in a straight line, which for a $245,000 compared to $40,000 car is pathetic

[integraz]

Yep, I had respect for them when i saw that motegi battle, its handling is soo good, killed the lambos in those turns and was mega fast.too bad it overheated.
And when i saw the modena all the way at the back, damn i never knew they werent that good on the track.

oh.. my bad about the nsx-r thing, cause i thought they were talking about that lap battle.

And the one which races the GT-R r34 yep its a type-s zero, and it beat the GT-R by 0.5 secs or something.

[spetz]

How much does the Type S zero weigh?

I am still finding it so hard to believe that they are so quick...

[sivic]

its not that hard to believe,esp if you see the clip.
the "206" kw they make is also understated. thats simply the figure given due the gentlemens agreement japenese car manufacturers have with the japanese govt.
from what i have seen/read the flywheel power figure for the C32 engine is more around the 230kw mark.
you cant really put a wrx and nsx side by side and say the value for money comparisson is pathetic. sure the wrx is a well priced car but when you buy an nsx you're getting a completely higher class of vehicle. the engineering and quality between the 2 is completely different.
as far as weight goes for the s zero you can find it on the best motoring vids. i'd look but i'm not in my home state so cant really get to my dvd's:)

[spetz]

On the Top Gear show a Evo VIII FQ400 beat an NSX around the track...
I still think NSX's are overpriced...

I mean, an E55 AMG cost less... and sorry Honda but you are not even close to Mercedes...

[sivic]

a family friend of mine owns a modified E55 AMG and admits he get owned on the track by NSX's. he even admits type r's pull away from him in corners.
i think you will find the engineering of the C32 on par with the engine found in the E55.
of course the FQ400 will beat a stock NSX. not only has its power been increased by over 100hp from stock the rest of the car has also undergone upgrades.

but back to the topic, a NSX type S Zero does 12 second quarter miles.

[spetz]

Yeah I understand handling wise E55 wouldn't be up there, but it's a completely different car. With all honesty I don't see how an NSX can cost more than this merc

The FQ400 only has engine mods and cosmetic changes.
But I was comparing that to price, a $56,000 Evo 9, plus a few grand to get power up and already laps a $245,000 car, and it's a 4 door sedan!

I'm still impressed the NSX is that quick, I thought high 13's would be as good as it could do

[sivic]

yeah it all comes down to what you want in a car.
to be honest after going over an E55 and an NSX i would say the build quality of both are on par. i agree at a glance the E55 seems better but with an NSX you're paying for the engineering which sees it outperform so many other cars on track. when comparing these 2 cars in this respect you just have to think that even with its auto adjusting air suspension to keep it flat and reduce roll/pitch etc the E55 still cant keep up with the NSX and its relatively static and traditional suspension setup.
the E55 is not what i would call a sports car. its a luxury sedan with an awesome engnine so its really apples and oranges. on the straight though the E55 absolutely owns.
Evo's are incredible value for money. however i wouldnt expect one to last anywhere near as long as an NSX. as they say, you cant have your cake and eat it to. a car with so much engineering in it at such a low price wont be of the same quality of a $200k+ sports car.
i honestly think the NSX is very underrated. for example, if we were doing a similar comparison between it and a 360 modena not many ppl would say the 360 is bad value for money although it cost far in excess of the NSX. yet from many comparisons the NSX leaves the 360 behind on the track.
i just dont think many ppl can justify such a price for a japanese car as jap vehicles are traditionally value for money economy boxes just as korean cars are today.

[panda[cRx]]

On the Top Gear show a Evo VIII FQ400 beat an NSX around the track...
I still think NSX's are overpriced...

I mean, an E55 AMG cost less... and sorry Honda but you are not even close to Mercedes...

it was a lambo gallardo, not an NSX dude.

european cars are overrated, their build quality is shocking compared to honda:o

[spetz]

panda I didn't mean when they raced neck to neck but you know how they have the lap times for each car on that board? The FQ400 was quicker.


Sivic, I see what you mean, but $245 is such a heavy price!
I was watching a best motoring clip of a few cars racing eachother, an interesting note was a RX-7 beat the NSX zero.

But in the end of the day I still like NSX's and they look great

[sivic]

yeah, very nice car.
go check out the "VTEC in Video" section @ http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/menu.htm
theres a clip of a NSX-R vs a R34 GTR down the 1/4:thumbsup:. until i saw this and another BMI video on NSX's i wouldnt have thought these cars would pull such times.
yeah $245k is a fair bit. at that price you'd be so tempted to go for something with more creature comforts:).
btw, that RX7 wasnt stock i'm guessing?

[Omotesando]

The EVO FQ400 on Top Gear beats the Lamboghini Miurchielago...


What NSX? NSX wouldn't even come close....

[c1v1c]

evo fq400 is modified. not stock and not cheap. and with a 3-4 second 0-100 time i would expect it to beat a nsx but as said it is a lambo not a nsx

[spetz]

The RX-7 was an FD, I am not sure what series but something like 6-8
And it was stock, the NSX could not overtake it, not in straights or corners.

The FQ400 is modified but is offered that way from factory. In a way, so is a Type Zero (weight reduction etc)
And sure an FQ-400 isn't cheap, but it's cheap compared to an NSX.
I know which one I would choose... hail mighty Mitsu...

[sivic]

i would expect the nsx to far outlast the mitsu though. however, i doubt anyone with the cash for either would be to worried about that.
was the FD vs the NSX a my car challange or something? although the FD is a very good track car i would still put my money on the nsx anyday out of the two to win a race.
either way, all good cars.

[Omotesando]

The RX-7 was an FD, I am not sure what series but something like 6-8
And it was stock, the NSX could not overtake it, not in straights or corners.

The FQ400 is modified but is offered that way from factory. In a way, so is a Type Zero (weight reduction etc)
And sure an FQ-400 isn't cheap, but it's cheap compared to an NSX.
I know which one I would choose... hail mighty Mitsu...


You have said everything to my exact thoughts, thanks!

I think the NSX is fast on a roll. That RX-7 is one of the later versions and as such it was very highly tuned from the factory as well! I mean come on, its a Rotary. And it is also a twin turbo!


But I think the FQ400 as you said, is still very cheap compared to an NSX, which the NSX-R or Zero, etc, are also modded from the factory too. As long as they have 3 year warranty then it is good enough.


In one of the Top Gear Videos the FQ400 was seriously faster than a Lamboghini Miurchielago (spelling!), both are AWD. NSX wouldn't be close at all.


As for whether an NSX or EVO would last longer. Well, it is hard to say. Any speculation is as good as another neighbour's guess.

Although in one of the BEST MOTORING VIDEO'S Edurance Race, the EVO VIII has won the race (against STi, M3 CSL, NSX Type-R, RX-8, DC5R, S2000, latter three in separate category and getting lapped!). The EVO won without ever overheating oil and coolant, plus had the fastest lap times. The NSX kept overheating and so did the M3 CSL.

All drivers were saying how they expected it the other way around, and were complementing on how much forward the EVO and the STIs have come forward during the last few generations. :)

[Omotesando]

That EVO VIII was STANDARD by the way.

Only has 280HP, although realistically should be around 320HP.

And on its Yokohama street tyres it was kicking the NSX's ass on semi-race compound tyres. LOL!

And the M3 CSL was also on Michelin semi-race compounds too, but the STANDARD EVO VIII still kicked its behind hard enough. :D

[^^v]

nsx-r vs r34 gtr

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2944729153933180449&q=nsx+r


In one of the Top Gear Videos the FQ400 was seriously faster than a Lamboghini Miurchielago (spelling!), both are AWD. NSX wouldn't be close at all.


so is the skyline... but u dun see the nsx lagging behind at the start...

EDIT: btw .. the nsx-r's lap time on top gear was done in the wet.. :)

[nastyazn694u]

the new nsx coming out should be interesting. especially if some sort of type R comes out. could rival the ferrari 430 and 360 CSs'

[^^v]

the new nsx coming out should be interesting. especially if some sort of type R comes out. could rival the ferrari 430 and 360 CSs'

mmmMMmm... V10 goodness...

[Omotesando]

nsx-r vs r34 gtr

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2944729153933180449&q=nsx+r



so is the skyline... but u dun see the nsx lagging behind at the start...

EDIT: btw .. the nsx-r's lap time on top gear was done in the wet.. :)


I'm not sure if you realise, but a standard R34 GTR even the V-Spec or V-Spec II (except for the N1 version) isn't very fast. It is meant to be modified by the owner.
A standard GTR will have its ass handed on a plater by an EVO or an STI or an NSX.

The GTRs do have a lot of potential though.



I own a Honda as well FYI, but think people should really understand that an NSX is an underperforming car. So what if the NSX-R's time was posted on a wet lap?

The Murcielago has a lap time of 1.23.7 and an FQ400 (time not marked) is faster than that. They're simply not even comparable.


The normal EVO VIII at a fifth the price of an unattractive NSX-R meanwhile laps around the same time, except the EVO is still a bit faster.

[^^v]

The Murcielago has a lap time of 1.23.7 and an FQ400 (time not marked) is faster than that. They're simply not even comparable.


last time i checked the Murcielago done a 1:29

EDIT: just checked on the top gear web site... 1:23.7... my bad ahahah... not sure wots up with the vid i got... it shows it doin a 1:29...

[Omotesando]

I think the NSX's are nice cars seriously.

Just that they're way too expensive for what they are.. :(

I would love to own one one day.. but its already Porsche territory *_*

[nastyazn694u]

yeah as much as i love nsxs' i do think they're over priced. the cheaper evos and sti's also have quite a lot of research and development behind them jsut liek the nsx....but at a fraction of the price. jsut doesn't add up i guess. but yeah the nsx is a very unique, fast and well built car. could be cheaper tho and faster too. thank goodness its gettign a bigger better engine.

[^^v]

expect the new one to be more $$$ than the former...

anywayz it wasnt bad for a car with a 16 year old chassis... lolz

[Omotesando]

I'm sure Honda will be able to pull something off something really good for the next NSX. But I think someone said it is not in production anymore or something? What's with that!!

I just wish, after seeing all those vids, that HONDA can finally make a car that is comparable to a Ferrari or a Porsche, on a track, on the 0-400m, on the 0-1000m run, etc! I don't see why HONDA can't make it - they have the right technology and engineers!

They're just too stinghy with the motor size (V6... hmmm).

I think if NSX is Ferrari beating in performance people will be willing to pay for one (well it does go around Tsukuba circuit faster than a 360Modena already I guess). Its just that on the straight, the Porsche/Lambo/even Ferrari's baby Modena can overtake the NSX with ease!


As a side note, I really want Jenson Button to win the F1 as well!! He is such a talented driver, needing a really good car! :)

[spetz]

Omotesando, maybe an NSX will be quicker than a Ferrari... but at that price I think buyers are more interested in status.
What will you buy in that case, a lil itty bitty honda or a FERRARI???
With the NSX, you will pull up at the lights next to a lil civic, in a Ferrari, you won't pull up next to anything as good!


As for wet and dry lap times in Top Gear, Jeremy said that average 4 seconds different in the same car between wet and dry. That still puts the Evo far ahead of the NSX.
As far as STi's go, even though they are a direct competitor to the evo's I am sure they are well bellow an evo. For example, the latest 2006 STi's drivetrain electrinics are only just nearing what Evo's had in 1996. 10 years down the track and they are just trying to match it...

I think Evo, is the ultimate car for a good price.
"We didn't just build a car... We created a religion... Lancer Evolution"

[2MPRSS]

the record on top gear was a 1.22 the nsx got a 1.33 plus it was a very wet track

[Omotesando]

I still want the HONDA NSX to beat a European performance car no matter what though...

Just proves the Japanese technology can be superior.


As for the EVO, I agree they are on top of the game. But their interior quality can be better by far.. :) I don't mind having the EVO though as least it really is quite fast. If I drive an NSX now (current model) you just won't get anyone's respect. Its always playing the underdog... :(

Lets wait for the next one.

[integraz]

Everyone noes that the Japanese technology shits on all, reliablity being the most important factor, like anyone can't make a car go fast, but then reliablity will be out the door.

And the Japanese are nearly doing this, making super fast cars, but with mega reliablity unlike those euros, which may seem fast now, but in the few years later the quality will go down. Even though they might not be super super fast, we noe they'll last.

btw im talking Japanese cars built in Japan not Japanese cars built somewhere else.

[Javed]

The NSX is unique, plain and simple. How many bloody evos do you see driving around now ffs? The NSX is fairly expensive, but it is just such a well built car... the overall package is near flawless in terms of flow on the track. I am a lover of all cars, evos are one of my favourite cars especially that damn FQ400 those crazy brits created, however at the end of the day... its still a lancer ;)

[Omotesando]

The NSX is unique, plain and simple. How many bloody evos do you see driving around now ffs? The NSX is fairly expensive, but it is just such a well built car... the overall package is near flawless in terms of flow on the track. I am a lover of all cars, evos are one of my favourite cars especially that damn FQ400 those crazy brits created, however at the end of the day... its still a lancer ;)


I agree with you to an extent :)

However to say the NSX is fairly expensive only is an understatement. It is farking expensive seriously and honestly, its interior is crap house in design (not materials) - the only thing it has better than the EVO is its build quality!


As for how many EVOs there are around - actually there aren't that many. As least not as much as Euro Accords, Civics, Corollas and even BMW 3 series and Mercedes. Nearly forgot the ubiquitous WRX/STIs.

2ndly how many people do you think can afford an NSX? You could buy two Boxter S's with that money, and I am quite certain if I had that money I'll buy two really nice Porsches that corners better, than an underperforming NSX.


Or I might just get 3 x Z4s or 2 x Z4's with M3 engines.. :D

[ofnsivtypeR]

the NSX is far superior to any european rival, as it was said earlier in the thread, watch the Best Motoring Videos. AND the nsx that is to rival the Z-Tune is the newly released NSX-GTR.

[Blew_lude]

overprice so called supercar

[ofnsivtypeR]

id much prefer it over a ferrari or "exotic" european sports car that cant keep up with a 6.

[Omotesando]

the NSX is far superior to any european rival, as it was said earlier in the thread, watch the Best Motoring Videos. AND the nsx that is to rival the Z-Tune is the newly released NSX-GTR.

:!:

Watching the Best Motoring Videos will actually tell u that the NSX no matter which version are underperforming vehicles, compared to the Euros..

[^^v]

:!:

Watching the Best Motoring Videos will actually tell u that the NSX no matter which version are underperforming vehicles, compared to the Euros..

i reckon it does alrite here...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2949919259744802395&q=nsx+r

[nastyazn694u]

good clip but unfortunately a lot of BMI vids are a lil biased. don't get me wrong i lvoe BMI and NSXs but yeah its the truth.

[Omotesando]

i reckon it does alrite here...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2949919259744802395&q=nsx+r


I have seen this video before and guess what, this Google Video version was edited and probably posted up by some fanatic Honda fans who chooses to hold on to it thinking that NSX is nearly as good as the Europeans. The rest of THIS DVD, which is not shown in the clip above, does the straight line performance comparison between the cars as well - how about seeing that? What about the Time Attack laptimes of the various cars? This has been edited out for obvious reasons.


This Video is in fact overly biased as the NSX-R is being driven by a no compromise Gan-san, who drives very well but so aggresive that other drivers in the slightly more expensive cars doesn't dare to hold their own racing lines because of the way Gan-san likes to arrive at the corners like a mad man. Did you hear the comment where they referred to him as the 'dangerous man'? There is a reason for that, you can see it in his driving style. There is a previous video version in which a race between a 360 Modena and an EVO VII (Automatic) along with other M3s/EVO/360, where Gan-san driving the 360 modena cut into the auto EVO's path during cornering when it was barely ahead, and Gan-san had actually damaged the white Ferrari's read quarter?




2ndly no one has ever disputed the fact that the NSX-R isn't a fast car around corners, because it is one of the best cars to do that - I have already mentioned earlier on that it goes around the track very well. This advantage is one of the main things that people underestimate of the car. It is mainly because it is very light weight relatively speaking and as such, it could hold its speed and momentum going into the corners, and when it comes out form the corners its deficit in power is countered by its higher cornering speed, better traction and higher exit speed. If we saw the rest of this video, as well as many other videos by Best Motoring which shows the NSX's weaknesses in a straight line, we will find that it is underpowered a lot, despite its much lighter weight by a few hundred kgs.


Remember that BAR HONDA was penalised in Formula 1 2005 for having their cars underweight, and disqualified/banned for 3 races? This seems to be indicative of Honda's strategy in racing (as is in all Type-Rs and S2000 too) but in the NSX's case, YES it works very exceptionally well in cornering and around the track, but in a straight line from the word go, it loses out to its Europeans counterparts, which also happen to be much more luxurious inside compared to the stripped out NSX. This is all about street credibility - straight line speed and luxury counts. How many people buy the cars really to go around the tracks full out? They might try it out but not too many drive 100% around the track. Read the back of the magazines, the NSX(s) are slower, looks ugly inside - this is where it loses out. I never questioned its cornering ability.....


The video wasn't completely comparative not only because the video clip was edited without showing the NSX's weaknesses in the full video, nor only that Gan-san was driving this car, but did you realise that the M3 CSL, Porsche TT and the Ferrari Modena were all sports-shift models, not manual models like the Lambo's and the NSX? The non-manual versions are nowhere near as good around a track especially going into corners, because the down-shift will never be exactly as fast or as accurate as the Driver wants it to be, also the fact that it doesn't work well in weight shifting during cornering, which is essential for higher cornering speeds. All the other cars in the video are also Left Hand Drive versions except for the NSX, which is Right Hand Drive as per Japanese driving directions.


If we wanted it all to be a bit more extreme, say if I wanted a car that corners like no others but with a deficit in power, I think people would rather buy the higher end Lotus Elise? Or I could also get a stripped out Porsche as well which definitely goes faster than all the cars above. Or get an EVO IX, mod it slightly, so it goes around the track better than all the above cars anyway?


I think end of the day - we HONDA owners would love to see an NSX which doesn't cheat by using weight as its only advantage. We want to see one that goes bloody fast in a straight line as well, built really nicely inside with CLASS and full leather, every safety feature including stability controls etc (in case its needed), and in the back of the motor magazines, is known to be a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo arse kicker.

That is what it needs to get street credibility too :)


Just my opinion though!

[^^v]

alrite dude, relax.
I wuz only stating it was holding its own in the race. and no s*** it was edited... i've seen the whole episode (not to mention all the others).. i seen the 400m n 1000m sprints.. i know the NSX has it weaknesses. We all know the NSX is an underpowered car, and lacks speed on the straights.

2ndly.. i dun get ur comment about being lite.... how is that 'cheating'?
oh n the BAR's that was DQ last year.. wernt actually underweight.. they were using fuel as ballist..not the one in the fuel tank.. but one in a different chamber (which does not get used)... and so when they were asked to remove ALL the fuel.. their car became a few kg's underweight. n funnily enough. soon after they got DQed .. a few other prominent teams on the grid promptly modified their cars. i guess BAR were just unlucky to be the ones punished...

[NSX88X]

own an NSX and all experts/BMI/magazines opinions are meaningless.

Not the fastest car going around but one of the most enjoyable.

NA 12 sec very easy on the JDM NSX's.

[Omotesando]

Yes 12 sec on JDM NSX's are possible, but for some reason the Aust Spec (where we live) doesn't seem to have the same specs and engine in it.

I totally forgot to mention that, the OZ Spec NSX sucks for some reason.



For that kind of money though, I don't think I will ever want to own an NSX. You can get a Porsche for that money.

[Omotesando]

The NSX actually overheats at the end of the video above, just realised!

[wlee2]

bah after reading that...

for price you really cant compare the nsx to a subie.. for 1 nsx was japans only production super car.. SUPER CAR!!!. its ment to be on par with the big boys ferrari lambo maseratti.. ladiladi da.. among those types of car its prolly the cheapest.. and as far as i know also the smallest dang engine for a supercar.

now back to reality.. people who could afford supercars.. (rex been a good car and all) wouldent buy a rex or a Luxury model merc and mod it to beat a supercar.. they would buy a supercar and prolly never race it (sorry to all the rich people out there)

after typing this i lost the point of my typing here.. ohh yeh i believe the nsx could pull of something below 13s.. i meen s2k is around the high 13s isent it ?

and i saw that clip with gansan going nuts in the nsx before it overheated gan san i dont think was very well know for been aggressive that was more doridori wasent it =P..

in one of the BMI he sayed "guts and agressiveness will not get you a faster time"
he said this while teaching some of the special Guest "racers" how to drive

i think i just watched that last night ^_^....

and watching that clip he was going well in the NSX not because hes aggressive its because its a lighter car and brakes work alot to its advantage on a track =P (it sometimes just looks agressive).. and wasent it his son that he was chalenging? .. i remmeber somewhere his son was also showing as one of the BMI drivers.. they go through the whole race scene arguying with each other and telling other drives to hold my dad back so i can escape =P..

[A-man]

at the end of the day its about personal preference

i like the looks of the nsx and there probly is shit u can do to a nsx to get full potiential out of them... i would personally buy one over a rex any day my reason is look how many there are on the rd rexs r turning into commodores same with skylines and supras etc thats the other thing i like bout honda over toyota holden ford nissan etc is there not as common as opposed to the others and there a great car there smooth they all seem to b underpowered except the vtec integras (thats my opioion) and they r luxuorious i also have a project celica in the shed and its a hell nice car...

i think the nsx is a little overpriced but wot handmade car isnt.

[Omotesando]

and i saw that clip with gansan going nuts in the nsx before it overheated gan san i dont think was very well know for been aggressive that was more doridori wasent it =P..

in one of the BMI he sayed "guts and agressiveness will not get you a faster time"
he said this while teaching some of the special Guest "racers" how to drive

i think i just watched that last night ^_^....

and watching that clip he was going well in the NSX not because hes aggressive its because its a lighter car and brakes work alot to its advantage on a track =P (it sometimes just looks agressive).. and wasent it his son that he was chalenging? .. i remmeber somewhere his son was also showing as one of the BMI drivers.. they go through the whole race scene arguying with each other and telling other drives to hold my dad back so i can escape =P..



I agree that a REX is always a good buy - its all supply and demand in this world, that is obviously why not a lot of people buy NSXs in a lot of countries, well except in Japan (patriotic) as well as America (who are crazy about HONDAs)!


But it is in fact GAN-SAN who is known to be very aggressive in driving. I told you above, he overtook a mitsu EVO but without giving enough room for it to brake, cut the corner too much and he crashed the Ferrari Modena 360 in one of the videos when the other guy had no room to go.... In the above video, they DID call him a dangerous man. It is his way of driving. Dori-dori (Tsuchiya) is never aggressive at all in comparison, I think you have got that wrong sorry to say. That is why I said the video above, which has cut out the Time Attack laps results at the end, which would have showed each cars potential slightly more accurately in favour of the other super expensive cars.


As to what Gan-san has said to the other drivers, what he says and what he does and thinks is different - especially when he's speaking to inexperienced drivers. Was he teaching them to drive MX-5's by any chance? :)

[wlee2]

I agree that a REX is always a good buy - its all supply and demand in this world, that is obviously why not a lot of people buy NSXs in a lot of countries, well except in Japan (patriotic) as well as America (who are crazy about HONDAs)!


But it is in fact GAN-SAN who is known to be very aggressive in driving. I told you above, he overtook a mitsu EVO but without giving enough room for it to brake, cut the corner too much and he crashed the Ferrari Modena 360 in one of the videos when the other guy had no room to go.... In the above video, they DID call him a dangerous man. It is his way of driving. Dori-dori (Tsuchiya) is never aggressive at all in comparison, I think you have got that wrong sorry to say. That is why I said the video above, which has cut out the Time Attack laps results at the end, which would have showed each cars potential slightly more accurately in favour of the other super expensive cars.


As to what Gan-san has said to the other drivers, what he says and what he does and thinks is different - especially when he's speaking to inexperienced drivers. Was he teaching them to drive MX-5's by any chance? :)


yeh he was teaching them to drive a mx5.

look i dunno i only go by the translations in subtitles.. and by look alone doridori always looked like the competative spirit type.. no offence to gan-san.. but i always thought his driving looked slow in time attacks =P..

but look in the end im just saying .. compare apples and apples and not grapes and oranges. the nsx is totally different league shouldent be compared to a price of a mere rex..

but realisticly well.. i could never afford one so its a dream car for me.. in my case owning a new NSX will always be a dream from now on .. =(.. (DIE HONDA DIE WHY TAKE THE NSX OF THE LINE)

end rant..

[preludacris]

errr, u say the nsx is underperforming ?? its a 6 cylinder NA car , farkn gets same lap times as ferrari 355 with 8 cylinders! FERRARI!! 8 cylinders!! farkn prolly 100k more!!!

dun c any of you nsx haters blardy saying that .. farkn no respect for honda man

stop hating the nsx , i think it gets awsome power from the 6 cylinder , and the handling is second to none . imagine if honda made an 8 cylinder or 10 cylinder car , it would farkn own everything , then u haters would stfu ...

fq400.... 400 hp mang .. yes turbo's are obvioulsy good bang for buck . how can u diss an NA because a Turbo can keep up .. ?? u could boost the **** outta any car , and it would own everything ...

[Omotesando]

Dude, an E46 M3's (actually the past E36 2nd generation too) has a 6 cylinder engine with 252KW that isn't even a light weight, bad interior, POS NSX pretending to be a sports car. The keyword is weight, fitout, etc, vs performance.


The problem is, the NSX overheats, because that is the only way it can be driven to go fast - absolutely wringing its neck off. Has same problem in Enduro Challenge race(s) as well everytime.


An NSX is 100k more than an M3 by the way.

[preludacris]

japan cars can't go over a certain power limit man.....

and wtv u say , an nsx would munch the m3 in the corners , and prolly beat in a straight line too, what are u talkn about ...

[Omotesando]

If you had read everything said in this thread, and you'll understand my position on this more :)

I'm not against the NSX's cornering ability - all I'm saying is its cheating by reducing its weight to compensate for the lack of power. Obviously a lighter car will always corner better, but for ppl who could fork out the money for this car - they will want something more - such as straight line power, nice interior (without cutting back on these to save weight), etc,. It has lack of street cred.

The NSX is a track car.

No one wants to buy a Japanese light weight track car for 200K+, not many are insane enough to buy a car that only goes around corner quick on a track, but can't beat an STI or M3 on the straight. Especially the Aust versions are slower.


The NSX is a financial failure - it is because itself is a failure, that doesn't even understand the clientale that it targets.

I'm not saying the NSX is a dud, but the fact that not enough people buy it - is good proof that its not good enough - in certain respects that NSX enthuasists just can't understand.




Finally, there is no power limits on Japanese manufactured cars anymore. That is old news.... Abandoned.

[sivic]

hehe. well..... an NSX-R or S zero does mid to high 12's. an M3 does low 13's. only a spec C STi does 1/4's into the mid 12's (the brand new one) which we dont even get here.
so it can beat either in a straight line.
lacks street cred? what defines street cred YO? some like it either way, big bling or maybe JDM goodness. either way, it'll turn heads quicker than a WRX or M3.
and worldwide there are a lot of ppl who will pay 200K+ for a lightweight track car. if it was such a failure it would have gone out of production a long time ago and wouldnt continue to be raced in JGTC, esp the 500 class as opposed to the 300 where the ferraris and WRX's stick to. it just hasnt done well here cos aussies dont spend big dollars on jap cars. thats why the R32 GTR sold so poorly here when it was released. and thats not a dud, overpriced car is it?
anyway, different strokes for different folks. some ppl can justify what others cant. depends what they are looking for.

[Omotesando]

R32 GTR WAS an overpriced car.

Who said it wasn't?



The NSX is also out of production.

[Omotesando]

Actually funny you say that - you just nailed it on the coffin.

NSX IS out of production.... for very obvious reason. Because HONDA ricer boys who are infatuated with Honda, can't afford one.


Mind you, I drive a Honda myself, but I'm certainly not a Honda boy. I give credit where its due. The NSX is a great track car no doubt.


But it does low 14's overseas. The only reason the NSX is faster in Japan testing is because they have better fuel, which SUITS the NSX's tuned to the limit engine, high compression engine in that market.

[sivic]

the C30/C32 engines were by no means "tuned to the limit". they were tuned to a fairly conservative level which saw the actual engine to be very durable (shame the coolong system couldnt keep up i'll admit). the compression wasnt that high either - 10.2:1, same as a B16A.
i dont consider myself a "honda boy" either but as you said, credit where credits due. anyone can make a car fast, but to make it handle is something entirely different, especially without the need for 4WD or active stability systems.
i realise the NSX is out of production, which is to be expected seeing as its spent over a decade on the production line as basically the same car. all manufacturers have made drastic changes to their model range to meet various demands of a changing market. thats why we've seen the demise of a number of japanese cult cars. i doubt its the very obvious reason that the ricers cant afford them lol
haha, i love it how a lightweight car is "cheating". if you havent noticed thats where most supercars are headed

[NeoNode]

The aim of the NSX was concieved to compete with the European exotics and showcase Honda's racing technology, by no means Honda's goals and intention was to please the rich folks who wants luxury and power, it was aimed at driving enthusiasts who wanted sheer driving pleasure and speed on the roads and race tracks. Lets not forget the car was designed with help from Ayrton Senna!

Despite the fact the NSX lasted 15years on the world wide market, receiving a facelift during the last few years of it's lifespan, it's certainly not a car that was a failure. Sure the interior isn't flash hot compared to today's standards, but it wasn't meant to begin with, it's layout, quite functional, visibility is by far better than most other European exotics, better visibility equates to better safety of knowing what's happening around you when driving.

I still can't see how reducing weight is considered cheating (Does that mean people who own Lotus Elise, Exige are also cheaters?), despite only having 206kW stated on paper, sure it might be pessimistic and not the power output the engine is actually making, but with the gentlemens agreement still in effect during the lifespan of the NSX, it still won't be overly far from the truth of it's real power outputs potential. Now if it outputted 260+kW and stated only 206kW that would be controversial.

The culmination of R&D Honda has spent into the NSX, a timeless design, the chassis, aerodynamics, midship layout, engine choice, brakes, suspension setup, etc, together forming a well balanced setup. POS of a car? I think not.
And we all know R&D doesn't come cheap (Another example, look at lenses for SLR/D-SLR cameras, after all it's just few pieces of glass housed in some plastic or metal, why would it cost hundreds if not into thousands to purchase such things?), there's has to be someway of recouping such costs back, thus keeping the car exclusive which inturn provide only the fortunate to experience such a well engineered vehicle. Their driving ability, well, that's another story.

Who cares if it's a Honda, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc, if the road presence of the car by it's design is enough to pull heads, then what else matters? Just look at NSX owners who are on this forum, no doubt their cars would turn heads each time they drive around in that thing. Not everyone is car savvy on the roads out there you know.

If the Japanese can create a car devoid of power advantages against the European rivarly and at the time the gentlemens agreement, but rely on squeezing out every inch of the cars ability with what they came up with (yet still keep it as a LEV vehicle, passing tough new emissions) until they can't improve on it no more, instead of the bigger is better method, then I say Honda has succeeded in achieving their goals planned out for the NSX during it's 15 year lifespan.

In the end the choices were there in the automotive market, it's up to the potential owners to decide which route they want to take.
I firmly believe by having more competition forces car manufacturers to produce better and faster quality cars, not only in the niche supercar sector but affordable pocketrockets, in the end win win for the consumer.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

If you had read everything said in this thread, and you'll understand my position on this more :)

I'm not against the NSX's cornering ability - all I'm saying is its cheating by reducing its weight to compensate for the lack of power. Obviously a lighter car will always corner better, but for ppl who could fork out the money for this car - they will want something more - such as straight line power, nice interior (without cutting back on these to save weight), etc,. It has lack of street cred.

The NSX is a track car.

No one wants to buy a Japanese light weight track car for 200K+, not many are insane enough to buy a car that only goes around corner quick on a track, but can't beat an STI or M3 on the straight. Especially the Aust versions are slower.


The NSX is a financial failure - it is because itself is a failure, that doesn't even understand the clientale that it targets.

I'm not saying the NSX is a dud, but the fact that not enough people buy it - is good proof that its not good enough - in certain respects that NSX enthuasists just can't understand.




Finally, there is no power limits on Japanese manufactured cars anymore. That is old news.... Abandoned.

Ever heard of this saying?? 'Straightlines are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers'.

As we probably all know the NSX was designed as a track car. Being light is the key to success around a track. What is the point of building a powerful car but it being a heavy piece of junk?? just doesnt make sense.

People who purchase the NSX are the true driving enthusiasts, who appreciate the car for what it is and its abilities to tackle corners. I remember watching one of the BMI vids 'motegi battle' where the NSX was able to hold its own very well compared to its more expensive european counterparts.

It has lack of street cred.From what you have said, to me you sound like a ferrari driver who just wants something fancy and hammers a good time on the straights without little knowledge of their own cars.

[Omotesando]

I understand on one hand, some of you's positions on the NSX as I honestly subscribe to the fact that it has often been underestimated for what it does, especially its flowing characteristics on the track. I should mention on particular tracks because on some circuits with more long straights and a bit of stop-starts, that is when the NSX or NSX-S or R doesn't work as efficiently, probably due to lack of torque out of corners.




Street Cred is a 'relative measurement'. It turns heads because it sits low and looks like a sports car. But put it next to a newish looking Porsche or even a much older Ferrari Testarossa or a 355 Spider. Put them side by side, let's see who gets noticed? Of course, partly its because of the badging. But on the other hand, its because in the media and in the mags, here or in the US, the Acura NSX has always been reviewed as a bloody brilliant handler, but underperforming.


http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/honda/nsx/perth/detail.aspx?id=2381753&pg=1&pp=1&d=0&nv=1

http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/porsche/911/sydney/detail.aspx?id=2637936&pg=1&pp=17&d=0&nv=1


Look at the above two used examples (since there are no new NSXs available, and only one newer generation NSX on the market), I picked the two that are from 2002 for comparison. I know which one I will buy.


And check out the photo of the NSX's interior. It reeks of low quality ...
Get a chick to sit in the NSX, show her the bad quality of the interior, and tell her its a Honda - it instantly registers that you're probably a poor boy pretending to be in the upper class circle trying to pull models...

Except, she probably didn't realise you ACTUALLY DID FORKED OUT $200K+ for a V6 Honda that only performs well on the track, but can't beat an M3 or a Boxter S down the straight.

[Chris_F]

i've always thought this car should be priced below 100,000. In this price bracket of cars i think it'd hold its own but at 200,000 plus you can get some serious machines that really perform much better

[NeoNode]

I understand on one hand, some of you's positions on the NSX as I honestly subscribe to the fact that it has often been underestimated for what it does, especially its flowing characteristics on the track. I should mention on particular tracks because on some circuits with more long straights and a bit of stop-starts, that is when the NSX or NSX-S or R doesn't work as efficiently, probably due to lack of torque out of corners.




Street Cred is a 'relative measurement'. It turns heads because it sits low and looks like a sports car. But put it next to a newish looking Porsche or even a much older Ferrari Testarossa or a 355 Spider. Put them side by side, let's see who gets noticed? Of course, partly its because of the badging. But on the other hand, its because in the media and in the mags, here or in the US, the Acura NSX has always been reviewed as a bloody brilliant handler, but underperforming.


http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/honda/nsx/perth/detail.aspx?id=2381753&pg=1&pp=1&d=0&nv=1

http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/porsche/911/sydney/detail.aspx?id=2637936&pg=1&pp=17&d=0&nv=1


Look at the above two used examples (since there are no new NSXs available, and only one newer generation NSX on the market), I picked the two that are from 2002 for comparison. I know which one I will buy.


And check out the photo of the NSX's interior. It reeks of low quality ...
Get a chick to sit in the NSX, show her the bad quality of the interior, and tell her its a Honda - it instantly registers that you're probably a poor boy pretending to be in the upper class circle trying to pull models...

Except, she probably didn't realise you ACTUALLY DID FORKED OUT $200K+ for a V6 Honda that only performs well on the track, but can't beat an M3 or a Boxter S down the straight.
I see once again you totally ignore the fact, the purpose the NSX was created and Honda's intended target market and goals for this car.
Let me ask you, have you owned or driven any of the cars you have mentioned, to provide first hand experience with them, or are you just going by what others have said on the internet, magazines etc whatever...

As you said street credibility is a "relative measurement" but it seems like you already have made up your mind about the NSX next to a Porsche or Ferrari. Don't go forcing your opinion about the looks or which interior quality is better as fact. Perhaps the fact it looks like a sports car is because mabye IT IS a sportscar.

To me, your perception of what depicts as a quality interior, are designs that is asthetically pleasing to the eyes, completely irrelevant, as it's what materials used for the interior which denotes the quality.

I think you're ignorant to the fact that a brand such as HONDA can create a supercar with a pricetag to match, I bet you wouldn't accept the fact that if Hyundai created a supercar you would be just as ignorant to acknowledge it mainly because it's a Hyundai, blah blah blah and blabber on something completely irrelevant. To sum up your mentality, ah yes... "Superficial"

Always going on about it's lack of performance, as stated already as to why it's engine power is capped at 280HP/206kW, yet still capable of accelerating, and cornering to keep up with the best of the European exotics (having one of the highest per litre output of any road going naturally aspirated V6 on this planet does help). I really couldn't give a shit what the internet or magazines have to say about any car for the matter, own one and experience it yourself.

I wonder why BMW created the M3 CSL, Porsche the GT3 CS/RS, Ferrari with their 360/430 Challenge Stradale and so on. All the quest of reducing weight with minimalistic interiors they must be all cheating ayes. :rolleyes:

Like I said, research and development does not come cheap, also the Australian government like to put hefty taxes ontop over such cars being imported into the country.

And also, the fact if you're driving on public roads you wouldn't be unleashing the full potential of any modified cars, supercars etc. Unless you like breaking the law and have a death wish planned. To go fast in a straight line is nothing these days, there's plenty of cars out there without the supercar status that will go faster than a Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo etc for a fraction of the price.

Ah this thread sounds to me like another version of the Integra Type R vs other higher powered turbo's cars. Ah stuff this, it'll get nowhere.

[sivic]

classic....
omotesando, so you buy cars based upon chick pulling capability?
HAHAHAHA
sorry, but thats sad:thumbdwn:.

so its a brilliant handler but it underperforms?
is handling not a measure of performance?:confused:

superficial is right lol

[Omotesando]

Well I'm not trying to start an argument here, mainly for discussion purposes - but Neomode's response to my thread is way too personal and should be considered being banned for being so arrogant in your response - I mean, get a life. And he certainly cannot read either.

I said: "On the NSX..... I honestly subscribe to the fact that it has often been underestimated for what it does, especially its flowing characteristics on the track."

Neomode is COMPLETELY IGNORANT of this in response: "I see once again you totally ignore the fact, the purpose the NSX was created and Honda's intended target market and goals for this car."

What a stooge - seems like you're the only person on this thread who cannot see things from the other side.



And Sivic, no, I don't buy cars based upon chick pulling power. That wasn't the point. My explanation was purely a follow up to what FLY said about Street Credibility : " It has lack of street cred (?). From what you have said, to me you sound like a ferrari driver who just wants something fancy and hammers a good time on the straights without little knowledge of their own cars."

What I have said about Street Cred I know is completely true. This is a completely separate issue to THE PERFORMANCE OF THE CAR, even if they're intricately linked.


The thing is, the NSX doesn't sell as well as it should because for this kind of money you're not getting your money's worth. At the end of the day, a car that sells well is one which is successful, full stop.


Neomode: "I wonder why BMW created the M3 CSL, Porsche the GT3 CS/RS, Ferrari with their 360/430 Challenge Stradale and so on. All the quest of reducing weight with minimalistic interiors they must be all cheating ayes."

Again you have just reminded me how biased and extreme you take your own point of view, whereas I'm only trying to dissect the goods and bads of the NSX. If you think about it, we were talking about the NSX in general altogether - and in that respect the NSX's normal non-lightened version is obviouly underperforming compared to the normal non-lightened versions of the European equivalents.

Let me ask you a question Neomode - In most the track combats that we see, why do they choose to put up the 'lightened' NSX Type R against the normal road going version of the respective opponents (except for the M3 CSL), and how come some of them aren't even fully manual models? What do YOU think will happen, when we put the normal road going version of the NSX against these Euro performers, and in manual form?


May be I did not clarify this enough, but when I said cheating by weight I was infact thinking about the lightened version of the NSX-R being unfairly compared against the normal street car versions of the cars. If you think about it, the normal NSX is nearly 200Kg heavier than the NSX-R and 150KG heavier than the NSX-S - these with the underpowered V6 will have nothing against the Euros.

The M3 CSL is infact similar in track performance with the NSX-R as well, when they're both in manual form. But both of these cars actually cheat a bit with regards to tyres as well - as they run Semi-Slick R compound tyres instead of street tyres which gives them seconds during a flying lap.


Now, go back to a normal version and normal weighted NSX, with its smallish V6, running street tyres but for $200K + - I really don't see how it comes close to European performance. I also don't see where the money is being spent, considering that it is proven to have less street cred.


I never said 'lightening the weight' of the car as cheating in the sort of distorted context that some of you are referring to here, although I could have said it more clearly even if I was referring to the video posted above before you guys even came into the thread.

[NeoNode]

Well I'm not trying to start an argument here, mainly for discussion purposes - but Neomode's response to my thread is way too personal and should be considered being banned for being so arrogant in your response - I mean, get a life. And he certainly cannot read either.

I said: "On the NSX..... I honestly subscribe to the fact that it has often been underestimated for what it does, especially its flowing characteristics on the track."

Neomode is COMPLETELY IGNORANT of this in response: "I see once again you totally ignore the fact, the purpose the NSX was created and Honda's intended target market and goals for this car."

What a stooge - seems like you're the only person on this thread who cannot see things from the other side.
Did you really understand was has been said to you before? If so, why do you keep reiterating about it's price, it's engine, interior, only good on the track and rich folks wouldn't want to own a Honda NSX/R etc etc. If you truly understood why the NSX was made then you should know it's made for the "DRIVING ENTHUSIASTS" that means, they'll sacrifice anything and place driving pleasure as a top priority, which the NSX/R provides. Same reason why people opt to purchase Lotus cars, the money can be easily spent to buy a luxury cruiser but why don't they?

Allow me to quote Honda themselves regarding the NSX

It is not only the NSX's hardware that is evolving: we are continually considering the relationship between driver and vehicle, and working to deliver greater driving pleasure through contributions to sports car and motor sports culture. Our aim is to help driver and machine to grow and develop together.
They carried this philosophy all the way throughout the 15years lifespan to their last flagship model the NSX-R, so why bother comparing other aspects when Honda's aim has nothing to do what you have listed.

Lets see, all your opinions so far are subjective to your own mentality and nothing factual with concrete evidence.

Interior quality - Subjective opinion
Underperforming - Subjective opinion
Styling - Subjective opinion

So where are all the objective opinions gone to?


Let me ask you a question Neomode - In most the track combats that we see, why do they choose to put up the 'lightened' NSX Type R against the normal road going version of the respective opponents (except for the M3 CSL), and how come some of them aren't even fully manual models? What do YOU think will happen, when we put the normal road going version of the NSX against these Euro performers, and in manual form?
FYI: The NSX-R has been compared with a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, and a Porsche GT3 CS, what's that about not competing with the heavy weights?
And the NSX-R is also a road going vehicle along with the rest of the cars.

I don't know why you state the non manual version are a disadvantage lol, perhaps if researched a little, and find out what clutchless manual transmission are then you would know those boxes are infact quicker than any manual version of the same model. Lamborghini with their E-gear, Ferrari with their F1 derived transmission, BMW with SMG, Audi with their DSG.


The M3 CSL is infact similar in track performance with the NSX-R as well, when they're both in manual form. But both of these cars actually cheat a bit with regards to tyres as well - as they run Semi-Slick R compound tyres instead of street tyres which gives them seconds during a flying lap.
Also the NSX-R uses Potenza RE070 tyres, not semi slicks.
Again you don't think like you know what you're talking about, the M3 CSL never came in manual, only SMGII.


Now, go back to a normal version and normal weighted NSX, with its smallish V6, running street tyres but for $200K + - I really don't see how it comes close to European performance. I also don't see where the money is being spent, considering that it is proven to have less street cred.
Again, purely subjective opinion. What makes R&D of a supercar with only 6 cylinder cost any less than a supercar with 8 or 12 cylinders? Also Australia is getting shafted, you can purchase a NSX/NSX-R around the cost of a brand new Australian delivered E46 M3 in other parts of the world.
If the NSX didn't do well, it wouldn't have lasted 15 years lifespan.

PS. Like I have said before, have you owned any of the supercars you mentioned to give an objection opinion on the whole matter?
PPS. You spelt my name wrong haha. :p

[NSX88X]

I read this thread constantly and theres a reason why i didnt post much its being exemplified.

Anyways I've driven and owned an M3, boxster S, Skyline GTR, Mitsu 3000gt, evo 5. All I can say my NSX gives me the most:) . Not to mention that the NSX owners/community are in a different league cos they're not stuck up and didn't buy it for badge value. NSX's are like the XBOX 360 and upcoming PS3 where every unit sold was at a huge loss but it was more bout making a flagship. go to japan NSX's 2nd hand especially are worth a mint more than ferrari's and porsches.

Even though I'll be buying either a 996TT or Fezza for my next car its cos I can't seem to find a 97> NSX T in red in 6sp manual if I did i'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Honda NSX built "by engineers for engineers"

Neonode- knows that i've had my fair share of cars and garage to boot.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

I read this thread constantly and theres a reason why i didnt post much its being exemplified.

Anyways I've driven and owned an M3, boxster S, Skyline GTR, Mitsu 3000gt, evo 5. All I can say my NSX gives me the most:) . Not to mention that the NSX owners/community are in a different league cos they're not stuck up and didn't buy it for badge value. NSX's are like the XBOX 360 and upcoming PS3 where every unit sold was at a huge loss but it was more bout making a flagship. go to japan NSX's 2nd hand especially are worth a mint more than ferrari's and porsches.

Even though I'll be buying either a 996TT or Fezza for my next car its cos I can't seem to find a 97> NSX T in red in 6sp manual if I did i'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Honda NSX built "by engineers for engineers"

Neonode- that i've had my fair share of cars and garage to boot.

just chop off the roof of your current nsx :p

[zco]

i thoguht the topic was

NSX, 12 second 400m?

[Omotesando]

NEOMODE: "why do you keep reiterating about it's price, it's engine, interior, only good on the track and rich folks wouldn't want to own a Honda NSX/R etc etc. If you truly understood why the NSX was made then you should know it's made for the "DRIVING ENTHUSIASTS" that means, they'll sacrifice anything and place driving pleasure as a top priority, which the NSX/R provides. Same reason why people opt to purchase Lotus cars, the money can be easily spent to buy a luxury cruiser but why don't they? "

If you're talking about a Lotus Elise, I have already mentioned this as a much better alternative on Page 5. "If we wanted it all to be a bit more extreme, say if I wanted a car that corners like no others but with a deficit in power, I think people would rather buy the higher end Lotus Elise?" The fact is, PRICE IS important. The Lotus starts from $69900 and is a superb handler that also happens to go around very fast. The upper spec 111R is only $94900. Is there another car at this price range that goes around the track better? No. That then makes the Lotus attractive.

NEOMODE: "I think you're ignorant to the fact that a brand such as HONDA can create a supercar with a pricetag to match, I bet you wouldn't accept the fact that if Hyundai created a supercar you would be just as ignorant to acknowledge it mainly because it's a Hyundai, blah blah blah and blabber on something completely irrelevant. To sum up your mentality, ah yes... "Superficial""

Firstly your CHOICE OF WORDS to use are completey childish behaviour as well. What 'blah blah blah', 'irrelevant' or 'superficial' ? Peg your pardon. Stop making false assumptions as well as distorting the facts. Stop trying to cover up yourself as being an objective person when you're blabbing on. It only shows you to be incapable of holding any sort of mature, intellectual debate.


You know, you're the one who is far more IGNORANT and completely contradictory of yourself by making false assumptions even when you seem to think you're being 'objective'. Who said I wouldn't accept the Hyundai being able to make a supercar at all? The fact is, I bet they will one day and it might just turn out to be a big seller - if the package is right. But that isn't the issue at hand. It is a combination of factors which you fail to acknowledge and are total ignorant of. The HONDA NSX at AUD$220,000-240,000 (Targa) brand new - well I'm sure most people who could afford one might just own one if it performs like a supercar, better than the Euros - and where the 'extra' performance can make up for the lack of prestige 'BADGE' - fact is, the performance and the recognition of the badge are mutually inclusive of each other.

Let me get this straight. When you pay for an exotic car, you're purchasing a whole package, which consists of how fast it goes, how well it is made, how aethestically pleasing it is, what kind of prestige it has, the badge, the engine, the lifespan, etc, plus more.[/B]


THE PROBLEM - for $200,000+ the normal NSX underperforms too much for its price but also lacks in other areas. The Australian road going version does 0-400m in around 13.6s-14.1s depending on the test, according to my trusty old MOTOR mags. I don't you don't disapprove of these figures, unless your head is more accurate than the Correvit or the GPS system. The Mercedes E55 with 350KW, the brand name, and a whole heap more features inside, plus safety features, does it in 1 sec less. And its only $22,5600. There is also the Boxter S, which performs better than the normal NSX at $140K. The M3 at around same price, which also performs the same as the NSX. Even the M3 CSL is only $17XK.

Stop referring to The NSX Type R as Gospel. It performs well because it is nearly 200Kg lighter than the standard NSX and all the other cars in question, and even much more expensive, not to mention exclusive. But can we get this in Australia?

NEOMODE: "Also Australia is getting shafted, you can purchase a NSX/NSX-R around the cost of a brand new Australian delivered E46 M3 in other parts of the world."

How in the world can Australia get shafted with the price? Where is YOUR FACT BASED ON? How about you just MADE THEM ALL UP ? All cars in most regions STILL SELL relative in the same proportions in price. Like you mentioned earlier, Australia has higher taxes - so? It doesn't take a Stephen Hawkins to work out that as long as you're in the same bracket of luxury car tax, the additional tax being paid on top is still ultimately linked to the original price of the car. The E46 M3 is $150K and the NSX is around $220K when it was available here.

In the US the NSX starts around 89,000USD. The NSX-R is much more, but I cannot find the price. The E46 M3 is around 65,000USD in the US. Granted, due to the tax being calculated on a percentage basis, then the discreet amount difference between both cars would be less overseas on a dollar to dollar basis.

We are getting shafted in Australia = True in a sense, because we pay more than others pay for the same cars in US/Canada/Japan.

As for 'purchasing a NSX/NSX-R around the cost of a brand new Australian delivered E46 M3 in other parts of the world' - stop pulling figures out of your imaginative head. I don't agree.


NEOMODE: "Always going on about it's lack of performance, as stated already as to why it's engine power is capped at 280HP/206kW, yet still capable of accelerating, and cornering to keep up with the best of the European exotics "

Again, the irony is that after accusing to the extreme of other people (me) being too subjective instead of being more factual and objective, you're being blatantly subjective and IGNORANT times and times again yourself. The NSX's engine does not make ONLY 206KW. What power cap? The old Japanese gentlemen's agreement in fact refers to the maximum number of HP/KW that is claimed, but not necessarily the true output. The NSXs all make substantially more than the 206KW claimed already, so does the Skyline GTR V-Specs and N-1, or the EVOs and the STIs. This is an OBJECTIVE FACT. Where are your objectives gone? Stop REGURGITATING what others say online and take it as gospel, if you don't even know the basics about the agreement.


I'll write more later on when I get home again tonight... :wave:

[NeoNode]

You know, you're the one who is far more IGNORANT and completely contradictory of yourself by making false assumptions even when you seem to think you're being 'objective'. Who said I wouldn't accept the Hyundai being able to make a supercar at all? The fact is, I bet they will one day and it might just turn out to be a big seller - if the package is right. But that isn't the issue at hand. It is a combination of factors which you fail to acknowledge and are total ignorant of. The HONDA NSX at AUD$220,000-240,000 (Targa) brand new - well I'm sure most people who could afford one might just own one if it performs like a supercar, better than the Euros - and where the 'extra' performance can make up for the lack of prestige 'BADGE' - fact is, the performance and the recognition of the badge are mutually inclusive of each other.

Let me get this straight. When you pay for an exotic car, you're purchasing a whole package, which consists of how fast it goes, how well it is made, how aethestically pleasing it is, what kind of prestige it has, the badge, the engine, the lifespan, etc, plus more.
Define the term supercar, don't get subjective now ;)?
So in your eyes, companies like Pagani, Ascari, Koenigsegg can get supercar status, but a Honda NSX can't. Which i'm lead to believe that your concept of a supercar is having a big engine with crazy amounts of power as one of the top priorities.
If a customer buys a Honda NSX/R don't you think they already know what they are forking money out on, I don't know about you, but not every person who walks into a dealership buys blind folded without knowing a bit of the car first.


THE PROBLEM - for $200,000+ the normal NSX underperforms too much for its price but also lacks in other areas. The Australian road going version does 0-400m in around 13.6s-14.1s depending on the test, according to my trusty old MOTOR mags. I don't you don't disapprove of these figures, unless your head is more accurate than the Correvit or the GPS system. The Mercedes E55 with 350KW, the brand name, and a whole heap more features inside, plus safety features, does it in 1 sec less. And its only $22,5600. There is also the Boxter S, which performs better than the normal NSX at $140K. The M3 at around same price, which also performs the same as the NSX. Even the M3 CSL is only $17XK.

Stop referring to The NSX Type R as Gospel. It performs well because it is nearly 200Kg lighter than the standard NSX and all the other cars in question, and even much more expensive, not to mention exclusive. But can we get this in Australia?
I trust the timing systems used by Motor, but I don't trust the average owners ability to extract consistant times, not that you should on public roads to begin with. And don't go comparing apples to oranges, any fool can go fast in a straight line, especially when the AMG E55 is automatic. Performance is not about just how fast it can go in a straightline with 0 - 100 km/h and 0 - 400m times.
I can name 800HP+ Supra's and GT-R's that will annihilate supercars in the 0-100 and 400m, and probably handle just as well, but what's the point in comparing those to Supercars, just like comparing a Merc AMG E55 to a NSX, completely different cars made for different reasons.

I never once claimed the NSX-R was the holy grail nor the fastest, but for what it's capabale of, equipped with only a 3.2 V6, and to pull off similar laptimes compared to the Europeans, how is that underperforming? It only goes to show just how well engineered the NSX has evolved in the past 15 years of it's lifespan. No one is stupid enough to compare performance of such cars on public roads, so the race tracks is where such cars are bred for, this doesn't apply only to the NSX.
I mean R33, R34 GT-R's can be imported into the country, nothing money can't solve if someone really wanted to bring in a NSX-R.


As for 'purchasing a NSX/NSX-R around the cost of a brand new Australian delivered E46 M3 in other parts of the world' - stop pulling figures out of your imaginative head. I don't agree.
Maybe you never watched Japanese versions of Best Motoring but the prices are listed within those videos if the NSX-R does battle.
And since you want proof of how much the NSX-R costs here you go.
http://faijai.com/020309.pdf


NEOMODE: "Always going on about it's lack of performance, as stated already as to why it's engine power is capped at 280HP/206kW, yet still capable of accelerating, and cornering to keep up with the best of the European exotics "

Again, the irony is that after accusing to the extreme of other people (me) being too subjective instead of being more factual and objective, you're being blatantly subjective and IGNORANT times and times again yourself. The NSX's engine does not make ONLY 206KW. What power cap? The old Japanese gentlemen's agreement in fact refers to the maximum number of HP/KW that is claimed, but not necessarily the true output. The NSXs all make substantially more than the 206KW claimed already, so does the Skyline GTR V-Specs and N-1, or the EVOs and the STIs. This is an OBJECTIVE FACT. Where are your objectives gone? Stop REGURGITATING what others say online and take it as gospel, if you don't even know the basics about the agreement.
Allow me to quote myself in a previous reply

despite only having 206kW stated on paper, sure it might be pessimistic and not the power output the engine is actually making, but with the gentlemens agreement still in effect during the lifespan of the NSX, it still won't be overly far from the truth of it's real power outputs potential.
But then again like you can criticise me about not knowing what i'm on about, I have picked up plenty of incorrect information you have been feeding. LOL.

[Q_ball]

Define the term supercar, don't get subjective now ;)?
So in your eyes, companies like Pagani, Ascari, Koenigsegg can get supercar status, but a Honda NSX can't. Which i'm lead to believe that your concept of a supercar is having a big engine with crazy amounts of power as one of the top priorities.
If a customer buys a Honda NSX/R don't you think they already know what they are forking money out on, I don't know about you, but not every person who walks into a dealership buys blind folded without knowing a bit of the car first.


I trust the timing systems used by Motor, but I don't trust the average owners ability to extract consistant times, not that you should on public roads to begin with. And don't go comparing apples to oranges, any fool can go fast in a straight line, especially when the AMG E55 is automatic. Performance is not about just how fast it can go in a straightline with 0 - 100 km/h and 0 - 400m times.
I can name 800HP+ Supra's and GT-R's that will annihilate supercars in the 0-100 and 400m, and probably handle just as well, but what's the point in comparing those to Supercars, just like comparing a Merc AMG E55 to a NSX, completely different cars made for different reasons.

I never once claimed the NSX-R was the holy grail nor the fastest, but for what it's capabale of, equipped with only a 3.2 V6, and to pull off similar laptimes compared to the Europeans, how is that underperforming? It only goes to show just how well engineered the NSX has evolved in the past 15 years of it's lifespan. No one is stupid enough to compare performance of such cars on public roads, so the race tracks is where such cars are bred for, this doesn't apply only to the NSX.
I mean R33, R34 GT-R's can be imported into the country, nothing money can't solve if someone really wanted to bring in a NSX-R.


Maybe you never watched Japanese versions of Best Motoring but the prices are listed within those videos if the NSX-R does battle.
And since you want proof of how much the NSX-R costs here you go.
http://faijai.com/020309.pdf



Allow me to quote myself in a previous reply

But then again like you can criticise me about not knowing what i'm on about, I have picked up plenty of incorrect information you have been feeding. LOL.
sorry jst had to quote it :p

[wlee2]

sorry had to post..

i read somewhere not saying where..

that the NSX is cheating by reducing its weight to compensate for its lack of POwer???????

WTF BBQ is the Maclaren F1 then! a bigger cheat!!! 1 mill Dollar Supercar (remmeber key word here SuperCAr) that has used carbon fibre to reduce its overall weight.. mm slapped in a bigger engine..

ok not to get on anyone nerves here but why is this topic still open.. seriously.. like neonode said apples and oranges.. or was it blueberries and apples.. (sti been the blueberry).

i think theres no cheating for reducing the weight of a supercar.. i meen they serve different purposes..

the mclaren F1 didnt even come with radio.. im not even sure it had aircon.. i never heard them talk about aircon in that before =P.. (i could be wrong)

both lovely supercars.. PLEASE STOP COMPARING THEM TO A Overthecounter STI!!!

Just to add.. is the BMW M3 a supercar? (im actually asking cos i dunno)


EDIT: ohh and just to add i just thought of something i watched in Topgear about supercars.. they were driving them around the street (somewhere i forget) and had heaps of trouble driving around because of the design of the car (this was a Zonda. and 2 othercars i forget what they were maybee ferarri) does this make them less streetable cars?

and also if everyone could afford a Honda NSX.. and there were as many of them on the road as there were STI and WRXs.. i would no longer be dreaming of the car and it would no longer be rare.. whats the point of having a rare Supercar if every Joe Smoe had one?

[zco]

NEOMODE: "why do you keep reiterating about it's price, it's engine, interior, only good on the track and rich folks wouldn't want to own a Honda NSX/R etc etc. If you truly understood why the NSX was made then you should know it's made for the "DRIVING ENTHUSIASTS" that means, they'll sacrifice anything and place driving pleasure as a top priority, which the NSX/R provides. Same reason why people opt to purchase Lotus cars, the money can be easily spent to buy a luxury cruiser but why don't they? "

If you're talking about a Lotus Elise, I have already mentioned this as a much better alternative on Page 5. "If we wanted it all to be a bit more extreme, say if I wanted a car that corners like no others but with a deficit in power, I think people would rather buy the higher end Lotus Elise?" The fact is, PRICE IS important. The Lotus starts from $69900 and is a superb handler that also happens to go around very fast. The upper spec 111R is only $94900. Is there another car at this price range that goes around the track better? No. That then makes the Lotus attractive.

ALL that is based on price. if they're willing to spend that amount of money. then im sure ppl would know what they're doing. dont think they need someone like you or me to be a financial adviser telling them which car is more better to buy.

NEOMODE: "I think you're ignorant to the fact that a brand such as HONDA can create a supercar with a pricetag to match, I bet you wouldn't accept the fact that if Hyundai created a supercar you would be just as ignorant to acknowledge it mainly because it's a Hyundai, blah blah blah and blabber on something completely irrelevant. To sum up your mentality, ah yes... "Superficial""

Firstly your CHOICE OF WORDS to use are completey childish behaviour as well. What 'blah blah blah', 'irrelevant' or 'superficial' ? Peg your pardon. Stop making false assumptions as well as distorting the facts. Stop trying to cover up yourself as being an objective person when you're blabbing on. It only shows you to be incapable of holding any sort of mature, intellectual debate.

who gives a rats ass whether he has is childish or not. not relevant

You know, you're the one who is far more IGNORANT and completely contradictory of yourself by making false assumptions even when you seem to think you're being 'objective'. Who said I wouldn't accept the Hyundai being able to make a supercar at all? The fact is, I bet they will one day and it might just turn out to be a big seller - if the package is right. But that isn't the issue at hand. It is a combination of factors which you fail to acknowledge and are total ignorant of. The HONDA NSX at AUD$220,000-240,000 (Targa) brand new - well I'm sure most people who could afford one might just own one if it performs like a supercar, better than the Euros - and where the 'extra' performance can make up for the lack of prestige 'BADGE' - fact is, the performance and the recognition of the badge are mutually inclusive of each other.

Let me get this straight. When you pay for an exotic car, you're purchasing a whole package, which consists of how fast it goes, how well it is made, how aethestically pleasing it is, what kind of prestige it has, the badge, the engine, the lifespan, etc, plus more.[/B]

if they're rich enuf, im sure they wouldnt care whether its 100k, 200k or 500k.


THE PROBLEM - for $200,000+ the normal NSX underperforms too much for its price but also lacks in other areas. The Australian road going version does 0-400m in around 13.6s-14.1s depending on the test, according to my trusty old MOTOR mags. I don't you don't disapprove of these figures, unless your head is more accurate than the Correvit or the GPS system. The Mercedes E55 with 350KW, the brand name, and a whole heap more features inside, plus safety features, does it in 1 sec less. And its only $22,5600. There is also the Boxter S, which performs better than the normal NSX at $140K. The M3 at around same price, which also performs the same as the NSX. Even the M3 CSL is only $17XK.


Stop referring to The NSX Type R as Gospel. It performs well because it is nearly 200Kg lighter than the standard NSX and all the other cars in question, and even much more expensive, not to mention exclusive. But can we get this in Australia?

NSX-R comes with different tyres, diff suspension setup aswell. just beacuse its lgihter doesnt mean it performs better

NEOMODE: "Also Australia is getting shafted, you can purchase a NSX/NSX-R around the cost of a brand new Australian delivered E46 M3 in other parts of the world."

How in the world can Australia get shafted with the price? Where is YOUR FACT BASED ON? How about you just MADE THEM ALL UP ? All cars in most regions STILL SELL relative in the same proportions in price. Like you mentioned earlier, Australia has higher taxes - so? It doesn't take a Stephen Hawkins to work out that as long as you're in the same bracket of luxury car tax, the additional tax being paid on top is still ultimately linked to the original price of the car. The E46 M3 is $150K and the NSX is around $220K when it was available here.

In the US the NSX starts around 89,000USD. The NSX-R is much more, but I cannot find the price. The E46 M3 is around 65,000USD in the US. Granted, due to the tax being calculated on a percentage basis, then the discreet amount difference between both cars would be less overseas on a dollar to dollar basis.

We are getting shafted in Australia = True in a sense, because we pay more than others pay for the same cars in US/Canada/Japan.

HHHmm ?!:confused:

As for 'purchasing a NSX/NSX-R around the cost of a brand new Australian delivered E46 M3 in other parts of the world' - stop pulling figures out of your imaginative head. I don't agree.


NEOMODE: "Always going on about it's lack of performance, as stated already as to why it's engine power is capped at 280HP/206kW, yet still capable of accelerating, and cornering to keep up with the best of the European exotics "

Again, the irony is that after accusing to the extreme of other people (me) being too subjective instead of being more factual and objective, you're being blatantly subjective and IGNORANT times and times again yourself. The NSX's engine does not make ONLY 206KW. What power cap? The old Japanese gentlemen's agreement in fact refers to the maximum number of HP/KW that is claimed, but not necessarily the true output. The NSXs all make substantially more than the 206KW claimed already, so does the Skyline GTR V-Specs and N-1, or the EVOs and the STIs. This is an OBJECTIVE FACT. Where are your objectives gone? Stop REGURGITATING what others say online and take it as gospel, if you don't even know the basics about the agreement.


I'll write more later on when I get home again tonight... :wave:

HAHa man. i read more on this thread, than my marketing class at uni

[wlee2]

ohh i just read what Zco pointed out in Red.. LOTUS Elise you serious?? u do know Proton sell those things!!! siff trust malaysian protons ^_^..
ohh and proton satria share the same engine as a mitsubishi lancer.. =P nuff said.. and paying that price also for a car with a new celica engine in it ? isent the celica cheaper?

[zco]

are you bagging me out wlee2 ? im lost. rofl.

[wlee2]

are you bagging me out wlee2 ? im lost. rofl.

no not bagging you.. just that you pointeed out the lotus =P (im malaysian) and i dislike the Proton or anything affiliated with it =P and my cousin owns one of the older lotus with the rover engines in it.. i swear its a biggest pile of junk.. keeps breaking..

but we talking about been ripped of for the NSX i think the lotus Personally is a bigger rip off.. its just a celica engine =P

[zco]

haha yeh. its celica engine. anyway. yeh. i didnt write that stuff in red. just quoted what some one else wrote.

[wlee2]

haha yeh. its celica engine. anyway. yeh. i didnt write that stuff in red. just quoted what some one else wrote.

yeh i know you didnt write it but you did point it out for me =P thats why i noticed it =P

[bennjamin]

Omotesando , before i lock this up ( I believe the answer to the initial question of this thread has been answered MANY pages ago) - i ask why are you hesitant to pull down the NSX ? For what it is (irrelevant to price - this is about a drivers package , no?) its great car.

As others have said above - it maybe a overpriced gokart , but then again , a lotus elise is the same principle....or ariel atom , or mclaren f1....


Straightlines are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers

- i thought this was the idea behind the NSX , and wait...all peppy hondas :)

Anyway , this thread has gone on long enough - i must warn you all in future not to get too offended/offensive on the internet ok. Its all just a big playground here.

Dont reply too deep into threads like this guys - make a thread in the lounge next time and go for it ! And keep it clean :)

[Q_ball]

i love you bennjamin :)

[Omotesando]

You know, I stopped replying this thread just to let it cool down a bit. But the truth is...

When the next NSX comes out, and IF it does have a bigger engine capacity and power finally for a similar price yet keeping the overall track ability, it will of course mean that Honda is finally seeing the light.

We shall see about that :)

[Blue]

Hey Guys, just read this effen essay of a thread!
Whoa, you guys have some spare time hey!

Look, at the end of the day, its personal preference and your budget that will make your purchasing decision (common sense)

And BTW, 90% people crapping on here have no experience with these cars,

So lets loook at the facts, (and my opinion,)

Nsx's IMHO look v.cool (mitsu drivers cant talk about the interior- look in your own backyard before you throw stones)

Mitsus are for posers with droid kit fitting ambitions (look where Mitsu is heading in japan for a good indication of their build quality)

STis and Evos are for the middle class guy who wants street cred and maybe a track day or two

And the rest like M3's, Porsche Boxsters, GTRs etc are for people who have money and can afford better

And with Fazza430's, M3csl, 911GT3, are for people who want status and can afford also people who like insane cars

And for those with a deathwish, murcies, Zonda's, Porsche GT's, Enzo's

And if you want the schizznit lolo's, with no expense spared MclarenF1's, Koneissegg, Bugatti Veyron

So in summary NSX's are fast enough for such 12's down the quarter, mitsu's are ghey, and if you really want to be the master PIMP in the Hood- drive the most schizznit lolo ATM which is the Veyron (IMO)

[Omotesando]

Yep I agree with what Blue has said haha.

The problem is - NSX don't run 12's except for the 200Kg lighter Type R, not available in Australia. A normal NSX runs 13.5-14.1s. THAT puts it into perspective.

[sivic]

but are we looking at an Australian perspective?;)
a "normal" NSX isnt the soft spec we get here. since we're considering such a global variety of cars, many of which also are probly never going to make it to our shores, we might as well consider the best specs...............
the fastest of which is the S Zero, not Type R:p
but yeah, Blue put it well

[Omotesando]

"but are we looking at an Australian perspective?"

GOOD POINT :) Well, thing is, Type-R is Japan exclusive. So is the Type S-Zero. I guess I should have mentioned that!


As said, Type S-Zero 3.2L (1997) is for Japan market exclusively too.
2ndly, it is NOT faster than the 2nd generation 2002 3.2L NSX-R (Type R), but, it is faster than the 1st Generation 1992 3.0L NSX-R.

In terms of speed, it goes like this. NSX < NSX Type S < NSX Type S-ZERO < NSX Type R < NSX-R Type GT.
Targa lies somewhere but according to weight, should be slowest.

The Type S-ZERO has softer suspension and also slightly heavier than the Type R as well. It is aimed at the slightly less than Type R market but is still race spec.

But S-Zero was not updated into the newest facelift, as did the normal Type S and Type R. Because the Type R kind of replaced it again. ;)