Car Not Starting ? Main Relay stuffed ?

[Andrew21]

I have searched and tried a few things, but i just wanted to ask a simple question...

D16y1 SOHC V-tec Motor

If when trying to start the carm, and all you hear is the " Click noise ".
This usually means either the starter motor is fried or your battery ?

Well i know the battery is fine, as i've tried 3 different ones.
I know the starter is fine as it started a few days ago fine...

We did change the dash wiring harness and now it wont turn over?
Checked all the fuses and seems ok.

All i can think of is that there must be a stupid little plug not plugged in somewhere under the dash?

As far as i can see, all the main plugs are in, Ignition , relay .e.t.c

Can anyone think of any main plugs to check for ?

The only info i can tell you is that

1. The fuel pump is working and getting primed
2. When u try to start the car, the Main relay clicks once, then a click noise from the engine bay fuse box, then click from main relay ?

Is the main relay meant to click like this ? or could it be stuffed ? just FYI it is the same relay that started the car 3 days ago with the old dash wiring harness.

Im pretty sure its to do with the dash wiring because thats the only thing changed ?

Any help appreciated boyz.

[iamhappy46]

I would say the brushes in your starter motor have died, common problem. That is why you can hear all your Relays clicking, which is fine.
Normally, the starter motor starting would mask the clicking relays. A Flat battery normally will not click relays as there is no power to click them...

Take the starter motor to an auto electrician and get new brushes fitted or fit another starter motor. Also make sure you have both wires connected to the starter motor...

[Andrew21]

hmm u rekon it would be that ? Considering the motor was turning over no probs only 2-3 days ago ?

[Nuttz]

hahah the starter motor problem is a bit drastic. But if u got a multimeter or a test light u might be able to see where the problem is. when u go to start the motor u could put the meter on the wire that goes to your starter and ground to see if there is power getting to that. If there isnt then u got to back track from there. maybe check your fuses, especially the engine bay ones. check connections. could be harness to ECU could be loose or not connected.

[iamhappy46]

I have seen it happen...
Actually try tapping the starter motor with a screw driver handle and try starting it again... If it starts first go, it is the brushes...

[Andrew21]

Yeh i think i'll run the multimeter all over the car and test everything....

Thanks for the idea's boyz.

[bennjamin]

I have seen it happen...
Actually try tapping the starter motor with a screw driver handle and try starting it again... If it starts first go, it is the brushes...

...agree. There is a DIY you CAN do to smooth over the carbon bushes alittle - a temp. fix methinks.

I can bring my spare starter over 2mrw and give it a shot if thats the case man.

[michael_antoi]

if it's the starter that clicks then it might be the problem...

does the starter actually crank the motor?

[iamhappy46]

The fact your relays are clicking is proving you have power, so it is not fuses. The constant power cable from Batt to Starter Motor is not fused, so it wont be that.

Another thing, check the 2 pin plug on your driver side strut tower and confirm it is connected(one wire is ignition coil, other is starter motor wire)

[Andrew21]

Ok, so we think its the starter ?... Ben, i also have the starter off the old motor remember ... we'll test it 2morow.

But how can this be when 2 days ago the car was turning over. All i have done since then is unplug the dash wiring harness and put a new one in ? thats why i think it must be something unplugged? I will re-check everything 2morow and test a new starter motor.

[michael_antoi]

depends on how it sounds

if u hear no cranking then either starter motor not getting power from bat.

could be a poor ground

if u hear nuthin when u try to start it then it could be the ignition wires (near ur steering column)

[Andrew21]

There is no attempt to turn the motor over..
All there is, is a 'Click' noise , thats it ....

[michael_antoi]

crank the motor over and check if 12v is getting to the starter - may have fried for some unknown reason.

check for 12v on the white wire next to ur steering column - should be constant 12v.

maybe a plug fell out like u said - have a look under ur dash.

ACTUALLY:

now that i think about it - same thing happened to me. turned it but it wouldn't crank at all - also check the fuse box under ur bonnet. Get a test light and test for voltage on either side of the fuse while it is still plugged in.

I got voltage on one side but not on the other so it was blown. On your fuse box cover look for 'IG1'. That is ur ignition fuse.

[iamhappy46]

Tap your existing starter motor with a semi-hard object, if it starts then the brushes are stuffed. Sometimes they just wear out and happen to be sitting in the wrong place, so no start :(
It does happen...

I spent a 2 days early last year thinking that my freshly built SSS motor had seized but it turned out to be starter motor brushes... Yet the starter motor had been fine a few days before. Luckily the motor spun over by hand and I relaised starter motor!

[bennjamin]

There is no attempt to turn the motor over..
All there is, is a 'Click' noise , thats it ....

ive heard that before - starter was dead -

we will have a poke around 2mrw man.

[ECU-MAN]

be carefull tapping a starter motor with perminant magnets, not a good idea

have you made sure your earths are ok.

also your battery terminals.

[[[d a n n y]]]

andrew is VTEC not V-TEC

we shall see what's happeneing 2mrw

[hoonda]

This happened to me a few years back. I tore everything apart thinking it was an electrical problem- it wasnt..

Have your electrics being playing up too? like if you tap the brake, your stereo cuts out, or maybe indicator doesnt flash, just goes on permanently etc?

If so, then your battery is rooted. Like, not just flat, its totally stuffed and you need to buy a new one.

[Andrew21]

Update guys...
Still no progess am i F$##$ going crazy here...

So far i have Changed 3 different dash wiring harness. So im pretty sure its not that !.

I can confirm the below tested on voltmeter :
1. There is 12v coming from all fuses in engine bay fuse box
2. There is 12v coming from Starter motor connections ( which means power is getting to starter motor)
3. Batter shows 12.4v so battery is ok

Does this mean that the starter motor is rooted ?

Also , when i try to crank the car, and the main relay clicks, during this period there is a 12v signal , then after the click there is no more power . Is this correct, is the fuel pump only meant to be powered during priming ? or should it have constant power?

Also to note, the 'click' noise comes from the main relay, but also the engine bay fuse box ( heater relay) but checked all fuses and they seem ok...


HELP PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[michael_antoi]

could be the starter - as i asked before; does the engine crank at all?

[Andrew21]

ENGINE DOES NOT CRANK AT ALL... Only Click noise .........

[michael_antoi]

yeh man check the starter

thought ben was coming around

the starter is definately screwed because u sed it was getting 12v and grounded fine..when cranking so yeh

[Andrew21]

yeh he did, but we thought it was wiring harness... I tried another 1 so i definately know its not that.. Looks like everything is pointing to Starter motor.

will try a replacement and see how that goes...

[ECU-MAN]

try to power the starter motor out of the car with jumper leads

quick simple efective test :)

[Nuttz]

Update guys...
Still no progess am i F$##$ going crazy here...

So far i have Changed 3 different dash wiring harness. So im pretty sure its not that !.

I can confirm the below tested on voltmeter :
1. There is 12v coming from all fuses in engine bay fuse box
2. There is 12v coming from Starter motor connections ( which means power is getting to starter motor)
3. Batter shows 12.4v so battery is ok

Does this mean that the starter motor is rooted ?

Also , when i try to crank the car, and the main relay clicks, during this period there is a 12v signal , then after the click there is no more power . Is this correct, is the fuel pump only meant to be powered during priming ? or should it have constant power?

Also to note, the 'click' noise comes from the main relay, but also the engine bay fuse box ( heater relay) but checked all fuses and they seem ok...


HELP PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
when u turn the key to IGN you should hear the main relay click on for 2 secs then click off. that means you fuel is primed. your dash light should have the oil and battery light on. that should be all.

when u turn the key to start,the dash lights turn off.. or 1 turns off i cant remeber maybe the battery light(i havent driven my car for a few months now). i have never heard the starter relay switch cos i would hear the engine instead so im guessing yeah that should make a click and another click when u let go of the key.

your battery voltage is a bit close to 12v too.. does the dash lights fade out when u turn to start or do they turn off instantly? or have u measured the voltage of the battery after a crank? or even during a crank? does the starter feel warm after u crank? do u have an immobiliser? double checked your ECU is connected or not dead(i dont even know if your car is meant to even turn on(power not the motor) without the ECU):)

Just making sure u have covered all your bases. Hope that helps :thumbsup:

[Andrew21]

ECU-MAN- i will try that tonight ..

NUTTZ- I havnt measurred those things ,but i will tonight,. Car had an alarm but we ripped out everything , so no. ECU is connected fine... Im really hoping its the starter motor, will find out 2nite i guess !!

Thanks for the help boyz.

[Andrew21]

UPDATE 24/1/06 - 10:55pm

Tried another Starter motor tonight and still the same thing !... NOTHING...

I have noticed a few suspicious things though :

1. For as long as the battery is connected, the interior dash light stays on, and also the 'Left side fender blinker stays constantly light up orange. Its only the passenger and no other lights.

2. The clicking is coming from the 'Heater motor relay' . If i take out that relay , no click it's just dead when i turn the key. I have swaped that relay with 1 from another fusebox and still same thing .... Also, tested with the multimeter, On the heater relay, there is 4 pins that connect, only 2 of the four have 12v power... is that normal ?

3. Also tested 12.4v coming direct from battery, it stayed constant 12.4v even while trying to start the car.

I can only assume something is not connected right in the dash ???

Im running out of time and patience with this thing...

Does anyone know a good/decent Mobile Auto-electricion that could help me out ??

[michael_antoi]

yeh man - very good chance it's ur interior wiring

from what you've said; the fact that your dash lights are always on (do you mean all the lights? ie. seatbelt, battery etc..?) sounds like you've done something wrong with ur dash.

your mates ben and sam help out yet?

they should be able to diagnose the problem

[Andrew21]

Yeh i think its the dash wiring...

yeh Me, Danny, & Ben have been at it for the past 3 weeks

[Andrew21]

Also i noticed that the " ENGINE CHECK LIGHT " does not come on at all in the instrument cluster...

[michael_antoi]

well if ur dash lights are constantly on then there is a good chance ur main relay is wired wrong

certain pins on the relay need to be connected to a 12v source when the key is turned ONLY.

these pins may accidently be connected to a constant 12v.

get your test light and test the points on ur main relay.

which points show constant 12v (with key out)

[michael_antoi]

has the light been wired up properly?

that light wont flash unless u jump the pins for it to throw u codes.

but i'm not sure if it should show up when u turn the key (ie. when all the dash lights come on for a few seconds)

[Andrew21]

Dash lights are not always on. Only passenger blinker and interior light, instument cluster lights go out when key is turned to "0".

hmm.. im pretty sure main relay is fine.. All i changed was, cut Yellow wire from Pin 7 ( for fuel pump power) .

Yeh ben tried jumping the pins but the cluster is not even showing the ECU
light !!

By the way, i have tested all ignition wires and all show 12v once key is turned. When key is not turned only one shows 12v.

[michael_antoi]

there should be three next to your steering column.

1 will have constant 12v (white)

when u turn the key once, another will show 12v (but not the third yet)

once u turn the key again (before cranking) all 3 should show 12v

also; are u saying ur blinkers are constantly on when u plug in the battery? and this also includes your interior lights? what do you mean by interior lights?

When i did a similar swap mine didn't have a CEL. I had to wire it up becoz there was none on my cluster - yours might be different. Are you sure that your cluster has it?

is this what you are getting?

[Andrew21]

That ignition wire setup sounds about right....

I mean the passenger blinker stays constaly light up. and the interior light ( main on in the roof) stays on. i dont know about the dash as its not connected yet...

[michael_antoi]

well obviously ur wiring isn't done properly since ur lights wont turn off..

check that with ur mates

did u say the wire going to ur starter gets 12v?

[Andrew21]

yes, thats what i cant understand. If power is traveling through the car, to battery, to starter motor, shoulnt the F$#$# try start ?
Yeh power to starter motor but nothing, tried another starter- still nothing.

BTW my cluster was from a GL carby. But im told still should have had " ENGINE CHECK" light...

[iamhappy46]

If the rest of the wiring is not perfect, it is probably a good thing your car does not start!!

[michael_antoi]

try feeding it 12v directly...from the postivie terminal of your battery.

careful tho.

that should most definately get ur starter going

[Andrew21]

If the rest of the wiring is not perfect, it is probably a good thing your car does not start!!

We'll the reason why the whole dash is not hooked up is because i was told that you dont have to hook it up , e.g dash lights , air-con e.t.c to have get the car started... But i might just hook it all up and see if that does anything.
F.uck im got nothing else left to try....

[michael_antoi]

try what i said and let us know...

it should crank.

[Andrew21]

will give it a try 2nite mate...

[ECU-MAN]

you shoudl plug everythihng in, that will show you if there will be any other problems that could cause this, with half the loom unplugged, you could get any werid result.

this is why I like splitting the loom and adding it to the exsisting loom

[Andrew21]

UPDATE...

Car is still not starting..
I have plugged in all of the dash, i did notice that my carby cluster does not have a engine check light ! Does this matter/affect startup ? wouldnt think it would..
Also there is 12v going to starter motor, i changed it with another starter motor and still no start..

Can anyone think of anything else? ???

Does the fact that there is power getting to the starter motor mean that it should be starting ? that everything else is ok??

need help urgently ???....

does anyone know any goodmobile auto electriians?

I need the car on the road now so i dont have anytime........

[michael_antoi]

try feeding it 12v directly...from the postivie terminal of your battery.

careful tho.

that should most definately get ur starter going

[Andrew21]

i tried feeding 12v direct from battery , meaning "+' from battery to "+" on stater motor and same with negative, it did nothing...

i was given a spare stater to try and that did nothing also, which i was told was sure to work...

I used only small thickness of wire? would this matter.

[iamhappy46]

You should have 2 + wires going to your starter motor... One is a constant power source which is a big thick cable. You should be able to get some thin wire, attach one end to the + batt terminal and then run it to the other terminal on the starter motor. If this does not spin the starter motor, your having bigger problems than you can imagine.

[ECU-MAN]

engine light will not cause the car not to crank or start. how ever it can help you determine WTF is wrong.

where you at now. still no cranking. or cranking not fireing ??

[michael_antoi]

well if ur feeding 12v directly to starter and nothing then good chance it's the starter

[Andrew21]

at the moment , still no cranking, just a "click" noise asif the starter is dead...

Im gonna try feed 12v direct to it 2morow and see what happens.

just to confirm what 'iamhappy46 ' is saying :

* Run wire from '+' (positive) of battery to big Thick wire on starter motor or to the second smaller wire on the starter motor ?

[ECU-MAN]

do this







http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/H029.jpg




I have used the black lead here,

do not do it with ground, make sure you put positive 12v on that big nut there. and the black one on the block.

use your long nose pliers and connect the solenoid to the power feed, engine will crank.

[BlitZ]

Try a rolling start..

else ill bet its proabably an alarm issue. imoboliser



I have searched and tried a few things, but i just wanted to ask a simple question...

D16y1 SOHC V-tec Motor

If when trying to start the carm, and all you hear is the " Click noise ".
This usually means either the starter motor is fried or your battery ?

Well i know the battery is fine, as i've tried 3 different ones.
I know the starter is fine as it started a few days ago fine...

We did change the dash wiring harness and now it wont turn over?
Checked all the fuses and seems ok.

All i can think of is that there must be a stupid little plug not plugged in somewhere under the dash?

As far as i can see, all the main plugs are in, Ignition , relay .e.t.c

Can anyone think of any main plugs to check for ?

The only info i can tell you is that

1. The fuel pump is working and getting primed
2. When u try to start the car, the Main relay clicks once, then a click noise from the engine bay fuse box, then click from main relay ?

Is the main relay meant to click like this ? or could it be stuffed ? just FYI it is the same relay that started the car 3 days ago with the old dash wiring harness.

Im pretty sure its to do with the dash wiring because thats the only thing changed ?

Any help appreciated boyz.

[Sir_vtec]

hey guys.... my car i think is in the same situation as well. im just got the car so im a noob to this scene. 3 days ago the car was starting absolutely fine. then yesterday it took more effort to start it up, i had to turn the ignition twice. And now this bloody morning it wont start. it makes a clickin noise like Andrews. so assumin there is so power trying to start the car i think the battery is not the problem but im not 100% sure.

the thing is i dont know what the start motor really looks like in the engine bay of a 94 GLi Hatch. btw the lights are working fine but the radio is not turning on.

I ll also add that the car had its alarm fixed last wednesday... im now starting to think that could be the prob. it was fine all wednesday through to friday when it took some effort to start it.

HELP PLEASE GUYS! i need to use the car.

hey guy im gonna use the battery from my camry to try jump start it. is it recommended?

[Dxs]

after sir vtec's comments.. i thought i would ad mine..

recently install an immobiliser/alarm.. wiring was all fine.. and had no issues previously..

now sometimes the starter cranks normally and fine.. sometimes it goes CLICK CLICK then the usual REOW REOW and starts.. yet to really check it out (car isnt in use).. but sounds like sir-vtec's problem.. might remove the immobiliser from the starter and see if it still does the same thing

[Sir_vtec]

somebody please!!! im desperate. i have no idea where to start solving this problem.

[ECU-MAN]

try another battery.
could be a fault in your starter motor solenoid
loose or dirty battery terminals

bad ground

[Sir_vtec]

i ve tried cleaning the positive terminal of the battery still doesnt work. i ve also look at the solenoid... all fine.

im now gonna try jump starting it with the battery of the camry. is this recommended?

thanks for ur ideas ecu-man. keep em comin

[ECU-MAN]

camry battery will work, just dont get the polarity wrong

[Sir_vtec]

ecu-man.... i ve connected the (-) end of the cable to the (-) of the good battery terminal and connected the other end of the (-) cable to the (-) terminal of the dead battery.

Correct????

[ECU-MAN]

im confused, doesnt sound right

take your old battery,

put the red lead on the (+) side of the camry battery, and the black on the (-) battery terminal.

or if your going to use jump leads

leave your exsisting batt in the car
put the black lead on the ( - ) on you car, then the ( - ) on the camry battery
put the red lead on the (+) terminal of the Honda, and the other end on the ( + ) terminal on the camry, then start the honda.

[Sir_vtec]

yeh sorry about my poor communication skills. lol

All worked out, the car started at one go.

Thanks heaps for ur time and advice Ecu-man. Cheers mate!!!
Ken.

[Benson]

use a multimeter and see if there is power running to the starter motor....

see if the fuel prime,

then after put the car on accessories, then by using a moderate size electical wire touch the starter motor signal wire to the power wire on the starter motor... like hte pic ECU-MAN showed...it should start up :):thumbsup:
.
if it clicks... i reckon ur best bet is the starter motor...

see how it goes...

[Andrew21]

UPDATE.....

FYI - Followed the Direct 12v Power feed test to the starter motor as ECU-MAN said, motor cranked up fine!!!

Which narrowed the problem to being a faulty ignition wire somewhere in the loom !!

All fixed now and car is running sweet !!!!!

.