ZC Vs B16a... Low Rev ranges

[SIKCVC]

Pros and cons....


People say I'll hate Vtec engines down low... for example... with my ZC i can drive around at 1500 RPM comfortably so long as i dont have to go up any slopes... 2200+ for slopes and 2500+ for steep slopes

Would i still be able to do this with a b16a? or is it revsville for me? not that i dont want revs just not all the time... if i did i'd buy a 180 and never leave boost.

[2ds]

i usually don't have problems going up a hill in 5th gear, unless it's reasonably steep and then i change to 4th, and my car should weigh more than yours..

-2ds

[SIKCVC]

SWEET :D

mmmm low down AND high up... could i ask for more.

well perhaps a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd.

[Weq]

b16a's arnt known as torqueless wonders for no reason. Easily fixed with a snail bolted on though....

ur best bet, find dyno comparisons with torque ploted on em.

[bennjamin]

and to add....nothing wrong with the mighty ZC (d16a8) - not too hard to beat a b16a-powered car (without a SNAIL thankyou Weq :P) if u are a good driver - but lightly modded a b16a will just pull away from Mr non-vtec.

[Setanta]

My B16A pulls away from ZCs ben, with a passenger on board. Light mods to my stock (CRX vs EF9).

The question is about "down-low". The answer is that the ZC is better suited to low rpm driving... but who wants to drive there anyway? ;)

[[[d a n n y]]]

b16a will pull away from a non-vtec easily...

and also going up a hill..

on 5th gear my car still accelerates..going up a hill

[fozee]

Sounds like you're driving up a slight incline if your accelerating in 5th.
Unless you have mods.

[A'PEXi]

hahaha try going up a 75 degree incline in 5th danny :D

and in reply to sikcvc, yes it is possible :P

[[[d a n n y]]]

well about 45' i put it in 4th at 3K rpm

a hill i alwayz go past going home..

[incoming]

my d16a8 was crud compared to my b16a...

[fozee]

]]well about 45'

Thats still a really steep hill, no chance in 5th, pushin it in 4th, 3rd youd have a chance, 2nd... definately.

My d16 doesnt compare to my old B16a, no way, just more economical. Its a purpose designed engine and high torque and power were not a considered aspect, i guess

[wynode]

I'd say the b16 would have a better low end mainly due to the higher compresion it runs over the ZC!

[SIKCVC]

Ok thanks guys... looks like they will be very comparable down low but obviously with the same kinds of mods the B16 is just going to get the larger gains in power and torque. I hope thats the message i was ment to get :P

[bennjamin]

*flogs dead horse*




yes - the powers of vtec rule all :P

[[[d a n n y]]]

]]well about 45'

Thats still a really steep hill, no chance in 5th, pushin it in 4th, 3rd youd have a chance, 2nd... definately.

My d16 doesnt compare to my old B16a, no way, just more economical. Its a purpose designed engine and high torque and power were not a considered aspect, i guess


hm...well...

mayb ur car is heavier than mine also my driving style must b very different from urs

[2ds]

the b16a does make slightly less power at lower rpm than the zc.

As far as drags are concerned the thing is over after 5000 rpm (assuming no snail =p) =)

and as for hills, the b16a needs to be mated to a close ratio gear box, with that, you are set (which is how honda shipped it funly enough)

-2ds

[fozee]

Find me a hill with a sealed road and incline of 45 degree.
I doubt youll find many 45 degree straight road inclines.

Its not driving style, its impossible in 5th to be accelerating up that sort of incline.

Ill leave it at that,

[wynode]

Do you guys travel with protractors?

I think the only thing stopping the b16 making more power in the low range is the head which is probably optimised for high RPM flow. Other than that everything on paper to me, points to the b16 making more power at low RPM.

[A'PEXi]

well its sort of a different story if you've been accelerating for a long straight then start going up the hill, or from standing position up the hill...

[mo]

Do you guys travel with protractors?

i do :D :dance:

[2ds]

damn geometry nerds

-2ds

[Setanta]

lol - yep - I was wondering about these 75 and 45 deg inclines :D:D:D:D

[wynode]

Yeah especially once your ON the hill......its hard to say what the angle is hehe

[Setanta]

Get on a pushbike and try what seems like a gradual incline... it aint when your using the pedal power :P

Then it feels like 75 deg :D

[EG5]

from what i experienced , b16 seems to be abit slow on low rpm compared to ZC , but for sure its got plenty of high rpm power.

damn i just realised that My EG civic is my 3rd ZC powered honda i had .

[EG5]

and to add....nothing wrong with the mighty ZC (d16a8) - not too hard to beat a b16a-powered car (without a SNAIL thankyou Weq :P) if u are a good driver - but lightly modded a b16a will just pull away from Mr non-vtec.

to add about the mighty ZC .
its not too hard to beat B16 , B18c powered hondas or even H22a's......
and mine is stock internal d16a8.
for those who know my EG hatch they know what im talkin about.
good driver , power to weight ratio , traction >>really does help alot

[joneblaze]

EG5 is good driver lah....... :)

[2ds]

zc does make more power up until about 5000rpm


-2ds

[SIKCVC]

my ZC rips down low thats what i'm worried about... but i'm sure with a few light mods the B16 will rip the ZC. although i will miss its non vtec rumble... suck a clean sounding smooth engine. I hope i dont regret the swap.

[wynode]

i think we are talking OBJECTIVELY which is quicker in the low end.


zc does make more power up until about 5000rpm

Based on...?

[EG5]

zc does make more power up until about 5000rpm


-2ds

what do u mean by this ?
my stock internal ZC prove that on the same dyno it has abit more power than a b16a with exhaust , air filter.
also i rip a moded b16a on EF civic down the drag strip.

[[[d a n n y]]]

my ZC rips down low thats what i'm worried about... but i'm sure with a few light mods the B16 will rip the ZC. although i will miss its non vtec rumble... suck a clean sounding smooth engine. I hope i dont regret the swap.

regret the swop i dont think so...

u'll b too busy enjoying the car...

well about this...

5th gear acceleration is possible...

i drive in 5th gear and go up the hill in 5th gear..not as fast as going straight but still accelerates...

and all this is is in 60-70 km/h

[wynode]

Yes Danny even the ZC done this. I can cruise around straight roads and up slight inclines (as long as they dont last too long) in 5th. In fact by habbit I go into 5th at anything over 65-70ks.

Probably something you couldn't do with your 1.3L carby ;)

[VTEC16]

there is nothing you will miss about your zc......guaranteed.

[[[d a n n y]]]

Yes Danny even the ZC done this. I can cruise around straight roads and up slight inclines (as long as they dont last too long) in 5th. In fact by habbit I go into 5th at anything over 65-70ks.

Probably something you couldn't do with your 1.3L carby ;)

man couldnt even start at 2nd man.. :P

[A'PEXi]

hahahahahaha 1.3 carby cant even start in 2nd :D

[2ds]

i think we are talking OBJECTIVELY which is quicker in the low end.


zc does make more power up until about 5000rpm

Based on...?

dyno graph i saw, it was a zc and a b16 side by side, the zc made 1-3hp more up to about 5000rpm then topped off and the b16a passed it.

the dyno graphs were so simular it was dead obvious the engine was built by the same company, i wouldn't be supprised if by the same people.

-2ds

[wynode]

Cool.........but that 1-3hp could be due to slight differences in the engine itself (as all engines make different amounts of power depending on condition!)

But I'm with ya 2cds

[incoming]

what do u mean by this ?
my stock internal ZC prove that on the same dyno it has abit more power than a b16a with exhaust , air filter.
also i rip a moded b16a on EF civic down the drag strip.

what mods have u done.. if i may ask! :D

[Setanta]

zc does make more power up until about 5000rpm


-2ds

what do u mean by this ?
my stock internal ZC prove that on the same dyno it has abit more power than a b16a with exhaust , air filter.
also i rip a moded b16a on EF civic down the drag strip.

English please - I don't think many here speak jibberish :?

[[[d a n n y]]]

hahaha

yonas DYNO TIME>>

[EG5]

English please - I don't think many here speak jibberish :?[/quote]

next time i will speak Chin - lish
Chinese English mixed!! :roll:

[ToF]

umm i just entered this thread and from what im reading,
am i supposed to believe that a ZC with CAI + Exhaust will beat a stock B16A??

cause i dont know much but i find this hard to believe. :s

[bennjamin]

umm i just entered this thread and from what im reading,
am i supposed to believe that a ZC with CAI + Exhaust will beat a stock B16A??

cause i dont know much but i find this hard to believe. :s

Add non-realistic varibles ( IE both drivers are exactly the same ) and the b16a will prob win.
But - I know of one b16a eater ZC - even my Si (old one was better :() has beaten many a b16a. So ? Its not the engine - its the driver ;)

[ToF]

umm i just entered this thread and from what im reading,
am i supposed to believe that a ZC with CAI + Exhaust will beat a stock B16A??

cause i dont know much but i find this hard to believe. :s

Add non-realistic varibles ( IE both drivers are exactly the same ) and the b16a will prob win.
But - I know of one b16a eater ZC - even my Si (old one was better :() has beaten many a b16a. So ? Its not the engine - its the driver ;)
well whats the power difference between the 2?
the ZC does 96kw??
and what does the B16A do? 118kw or something?????

[SIKCVC]

well the one i'm looking at is 125.

in the exact same car I think theres a damn good chance the B16a will still rape the ZC even with a not so good driver.

[joneblaze]

well the one i'm looking at is 125.

in the exact same car I think theres a damn good chance the B16a will still rape the ZC even with a not so good driver.

Driver skills matter. Alot. :evil:

[EG5]

comparing by 1/4 mile time slip down at WSId drag combat 14th FEB

dc2 VTiR b18c : e/h/i mods , heavy duty clutch , stripped interior : 15.3 sec

My blacksheep EG civic Si ( tuned by ART) : e/h/i mods , stock slipping clutch , lighten flywheel , Unichip , rechip ECu , stripped interior : 15.1 sec

EF hatch b16a conversion ( lsd) : e/h/i mods , exedy organic clutch , re chip ecu , stripped interior : 15.4sec.

Time slip dont lie.
so there is still a chance of a blacksheep ZC engine to beat B series powered hondas. But i do respect B16a , B18c they are alot more potential than ZC

[Spoon-Accord]

Even a H series Engine???

:P

Ken

[SP0017]

I think you guys should stop going on abt how time slips don't lie. They do. They lie because there are so many variables. driver, tyres, launch, drag strip conditions. SO if you do 13 flat in a ZC it does not mean the ZC is faster than the b16a, it more likely means you are fantastic at drags and probably need to change your gearbox soon. And it seems that there are many fantastic drivers on this forums :twisted:

[SP0017]

no disrespect to either engine or any driver but i think this has become an exercise in comparing dicks.

I've seen a ZC pull a faster time on the track than an M3, but i'm sure the most arrogant driver would not dare say that the M3 sux compared to the ZC.

IMHO

[bengbear]

I believe this thread has gone off topic.

We are doing engine comparisons, not driver skill, tires, launching, drag strip conditions.

On paper, the b16a is the superior engine, on flat surface or up a hill. Who cares if you can go up a hill in 5th or not....what are you trying to prove by doing so? i know if i hit a steep incline, its back to 4th or 3rd.

The ZC has potential...sure...after mods it can go quite well (props to Dean at ART who once owned the blacksheep EG). But the b16a can be taken so much further.

[[[d a n n y]]]

hm//i dont agree with the DC2 VTiR beating the b16a EF

i can chop a any VTIR with the same mod as me..

exhast and filter...

i have already chopped more than 5 DC2 VTiRs

i think the b16a in a EF will b faster only problem is the driver..

[bengbear]

]]hm//i dont agree with the DC2 VTiR beating the b16a EF

i can chop a any VTIR with the same mod as me..

exhast and filter...

i have already chopped more than 5 DC2 VTiRs

i think the b16a in a EF will b faster only problem is the driver..

sigh

[[[d a n n y]]]

oh and neva lost to 1 with the same mods...too :D

[wynode]

I believe this thread has gone off topic.

We are doing engine comparisons, not driver skill, tires, launching, drag strip conditions.

On paper, the b16a is the superior engine, on flat surface or up a hill. Who cares if you can go up a hill in 5th or not....what are you trying to prove by doing so? i know if i hit a steep incline, its back to 4th or 3rd.

The ZC has potential...sure...after mods it can go quite well (props to Dean at ART who once owned the blacksheep EG). But the b16a can be taken so much further.

:thumbsup:

[SIKCVC]

believe this thread has gone off topic.

We are doing engine comparisons, not driver skill, tires, launching, drag strip conditions.

On paper, the b16a is the superior engine, on flat surface or up a hill. Who cares if you can go up a hill in 5th or not....what are you trying to prove by doing so? i know if i hit a steep incline, its back to 4th or 3rd.

The ZC has potential...sure...after mods it can go quite well (props to Dean at ART who once owned the blacksheep EG). But the b16a can be taken so much further.

I think we'll leave it at that.