Legal issues with engine swaps

[iwkyb]

I am planning on doing a DC5 base model to JDM Type R full swap. Before I can start taking some actions, I was wondering about the legal issues behind the swaping procedures. Fro example, registration, insurance, etc.

I would be greatful if some one can enlighten me with some info

thx

[b18cfreak]

So if i understand what your saying correctly, you want to put a JDM type R motor into your normal DC5? Only thing you have to worry about is making sure you update your engine number on the rego with the rta and also update the same info with your insurance company.. Other than that there should be no issue's as your not putting an engine in with .3 ltrs more than standard capacity.. I think that's basically all of it..

[Paul1985]

do you realise the cost of buying a JDM K20AR?
IMO you could probably mod your current engine for a HELL of alot less and gain more power than the JDM K20A.

JDM K20A will usually set u back at LEAST $8k

[iwkyb]

do you realise the cost of buying a JDM K20AR?
IMO you could probably mod your current engine for a HELL of alot less and gain more power than the JDM K20A.

JDM K20A will usually set u back at LEAST $8k

I under stand that.... but I really like to stay NA and going K20A which gives 220 stock is good for daily driving.

With the k20A engine maturing, it gives a lot of potential compared to my K20A3 which the only option is to turbo it. If i really want power then I could always just buy a supra for dirt cheap. Its not all about power.

About the insurance issue, I am sure they will start asking questions like why you change the motor and shit like that, and explaining truthfully will sky rocket my insurance. Can I just say my old motor was blow due to what ever reason and a replacement was put in (since the engine model number is still K20A) will they start bitching?

Thx for the info

Secondly, i really haven't start qouting the price for dropping the new engine, any one know roughly how much it will cost to get it installed? (that is including the new gear box and ECU)

thx again

[b18cfreak]

I under stand that.... but I really like to stay NA and going K20A which gives 220 stock is good for daily driving.

With the k20A engine maturing, it gives a lot of potential compared to my K20A3 which the only option is to turbo it. If i really want power then I could always just buy a supra for dirt cheap. Its not all about power.

About the insurance issue, I am sure they will start asking questions like why you change the motor and shit like that, and explaining truthfully will sky rocket my insurance. Can I just say my old motor was blow due to what ever reason and a replacement was put in (since the engine model number is still K20A) will they start bitching?

Thx for the info

Secondly, i really haven't start qouting the price for dropping the new engine, any one know roughly how much it will cost to get it installed? (that is including the new gear box and ECU)

thx again

haha don't worry about these other guys and their critisism ;) If you want a type-r motor in your car then just go for it :thumbsup:

With insurance just tell the insurance company you want a more reliable engine with a little extra power. if they got a problem and don't wanna insure then go to some one who will.. (I'm 20 just off p's and look at what i got in my car, insurance won't be an issue)

The price of the swap will vary, I have no idea about the differences with wiring harnesses and stuff from your car to the type R model, but because its the same model car i'd say the engine and gearbox will all just drop straight in which means that it will only cost labour $1200 roughly i'd say depending on who you go through, if the ecu just plugs straight in then that's easy for you as you can plug it in yourself, or who ever does the engine swap can just plug it in.. or even if the old engine is vtec then maybe you could just get an after market chip like a hondata style of thing for your current ecu.. again i don't know anything about your model integra, i'm just going by my own experiences. Make sure you go to some1 who know's honda's tho..

[FR33K]

you'd probably have to get it engineered coz theyll realise that its an import engine when u go to get your blueslip for the change of engine number.
they have a whinge about it being an imported engine and overseas has different emission standards etc etc

it happen to me.. when i went to get my blueslip.. my engine number is B16A whereas aussie versions are B16a2.. so the guy came back to me and asked me where the engine was from etc etc..

[BlitZ]

I have been told that if displacement isnt increased over .2 of a lt no engineer cert is needed.. but then i havent got first hand experience..

dont worrying about the people's bitching...
next thing they would say would be dont get zorst, wheels, you are better off buying a new car and keeping it stock

[jimmeh]

do u wanna go from a k20a3 to a k20A? why dont u just buy a k20a head and hondata.

[iamhappy46]

Fitting an engine that is imported from overseas requires a full emissions test for the 'blue slip' adjustment of RTA records and require an engineer to certify that the swap is 'roadworthy' which is basically to prove that there is no bits hanging off.

The engineer is also required to certify the vehicle is roadworthy if you increase the motors capacity by more than 15%. For example from 2L to 2.3+L...

Also, if you have a major accident and the RTA does not have the correct paperwork for your engine swap(Ie, all of the above that apply), the Police will most likely find you at fault as your car should not have been on the road in the first place to have the accident. RTA Tech Advice Line: 1300 137 302

[BlitZ]

Fitting an engine that is imported from overseas requires a full emissions test for the 'blue slip' adjustment of RTA records and require an engineer to certify that the swap is 'roadworthy' which is basically to prove that there is no bits hanging off.

The engineer is also required to certify the vehicle is roadworthy if you increase the motors capacity by more than 15%. For example from 2L to 2.3+L...

Also, if you have a major accident and the RTA does not have the correct paperwork for your engine swap(Ie, all of the above that apply), the Police will most likely find you at fault as your car should not have been on the road in the first place to have the accident. RTA Tech Advice Line: 1300 137 302

My exgf blew her RAV4 motor dont know how in the world she did it...
we got a jap motor put in as replacement.. same motor, but imported from jap...
no engineer cert was neeeded... we even asked the RTa at the time

[iwkyb]

thx for all the input guys. I am now searching for the engine and looking for info about the swap. Since the engine should fit in without any problem (since same chassie) the labour cost hopefully will be minimal.

I might have to get an Aus Type R header + cat to make sure I can pass the emission (i don't think my current mugen parts with high flow will pass).

How much down time will I need to be prepared for? since I only have about 1 week to get these all done during easter

hopes the funding works out well too

thx again guys

[iamhappy46]

My exgf blew her RAV4 motor dont know how in the world she did it...
we got a jap motor put in as replacement.. same motor, but imported from jap...
no engineer cert was neeeded... we even asked the RTa at the time

How long ago was the RAV4 motor fitted? Cause I am pretty sure the rule has been in effect for around 12 months to comply with new EPA laws on import engines.

iwkyb: I really think you should call the RTA and speak to an engineer before proceeding with any swap. I prefer to call atleast 3 different people on the RTA advice line, because no 2 staff have ever given me the same answer for any question.

The RTA needs a new engine number for their database, the Blue Slip Adjustment of Records is designed to do that. To get the BSAoR, you need an emissions test if the motor is from an imported vehicle.

I know it is a stupid rule, as my friend fitted a JDM S14 SR20DET to his S14 200SX but the RTA/Police/NRMA screwed him when a Falcon merged into his lane.

[BlitZ]

How long ago was the RAV4 motor fitted? Cause I am pretty sure the rule has been in effect for around 12 months to comply with new EPA laws on import engines.



It was about 4 years ago.. im not sure if things have changed - you proabably right...

But its better ,as mentioned to check with the RTA... rules change... assistance is only 20 cents away

[b18cfreak]

How long ago was the RAV4 motor fitted? Cause I am pretty sure the rule has been in effect for around 12 months to comply with new EPA laws on import engines.

iwkyb: I really think you should call the RTA and speak to an engineer before proceeding with any swap. I prefer to call atleast 3 different people on the RTA advice line, because no 2 staff have ever given me the same answer for any question.

The RTA needs a new engine number for their database, the Blue Slip Adjustment of Records is designed to do that. To get the BSAoR, you need an emissions test if the motor is from an imported vehicle.

I know it is a stupid rule, as my friend fitted a JDM S14 SR20DET to his S14 200SX but the RTA/Police/NRMA screwed him when a Falcon merged into his lane.

I only got my motor swapped in about 7 months ago and when i got mine done i rang the rta and spoke about any issues i would run into and the guy i spoke to said there is no worries as long as capacity hasn't increased over say .3ltr and as long as the engine bay didn't need modifying to fit it in then its ok.. He said they don't bother with emissions from japanese import motor's because the emision laws are more strict in japan then they are here any way.. When my car got it's blue slip and such done they didn't check emissions or anything like that, it was more just a quick look at the engine mounts to make sure the motor was secure and that was it..

[iamhappy46]

Japan has one of the LEAST strict emission laws in the world but most of it emissions problems are in the ECU. Having it certified for emissions(which I am sure a DC5 would) would be a bonus when you go to the RTA/Engineer or get hassled by the Police

Every engineer I have spoken to says that an import engine requires a emissions test, regardless of whether your fitting a import SR20DE to a SSS Pulsar or whatever other engine you want to fit.

[spetz]

In the ACT, if you are putting an engine into a car, that the same model car was available for sale, you don't need engineering, just change of details.
So, seeing as there is a DC5R here it wouldn't matter. Also doesn't the normal DC5 come with a K20 something? So even better.
I know because when a friend did a B16A swap into his EG civic GL, they said that if Aus had ever delivered a B16A EG Civic he wouldn't need to engineer it. However Aus never did... right?

[pillow]

Yep that's right Spetz, I had to have my B16A EG engineered because the motor wasn't available in the EG chassis in Australia. But yea, once engineered, just had to have the rego details changed.

[yourfather]

i like jimmeh's idea of changing the head and the header.

the rest of it is a waste of time and money.

[iwkyb]

I am not too worried getting it engineered any ways...... at the end of the day, it is something that can be solved by money.

Changing the head allows you to run the JDM ECU and full use of the I-Vtec system but the engine will still lack in compression and other shit like that.

I guess it is much better to do it right and complete the first go, saves workshop time and money.

[h22a accord]

i had no problems with my swap. I got a blue slip done and the engine numbers changed. The mechanic who did it is known around the traps for being a hard ass when it comes to blue slips but he said himself that there was no issues regarding an f22b to h22a swap as long as it was all done properly ( which it was ) so it all worked out good.

[DD2]

What does an engineer's certificate cost roughly ??

[iamhappy46]

I got my most recent engine conversion engineers certificate for $750 including emissions test

[nickiipoohz]

whats this blue slip u guys are talking about? I just went to the RTA and got the engine number changed. That was it, they only checkec the serial number on the block and changed it for me.

[stocky]

The emmissions test is free. You just need to call up the RTA and make an appointment at either Penrith or Botany. Engineers will ask for one if it is an import engine.

[DD2]

So if i had an EG Civic with an import B16.... what exactly would be required to register it in Sydney ??

[shepparton]

sry if this is an old thread but i would like to know about the emission test. If for example my car fail the emission test so do i still have second chance to fix it?

[Samm928]

if u go EPA you have 3 chances. 3rd chance if you fk up cya later your car is no longer ever in its life going to be road registerable again.

[lsvtec]

So if i had an EG Civic with an import B16.... what exactly would be required to register it in Sydney ??

i got a eg with a jap spec b18c and i just blue slipped it, thats all just to change the engine numbers.

[na-118]

Its really called adjustment of records

[jdm_b16a]

Fitting an engine that is imported from overseas requires a full emissions test for the 'blue slip' adjustment of RTA records and require an engineer to certify that the swap is 'roadworthy' which is basically to prove that there is no bits hanging off.

That's news to me. Do you have a "source" for that information? Has the law changed in the last five years?

An imported engine can be transplanted into a locally-delivered vehicle as long as it is not older than the vehicle itself. So, for example, a JDM B16A can be transplanted into an EG Civic. I have done this swap and I did not require an emissions test nor an engineer's certificate. All I got was a blue slip inspection and a "Change of Details" application. I took both to the RTA here is NSW and that was that.

The other governing factor, as you have pointed out, is the increase in displacement. This is clearly outlined in the RTA documents, obtained online.


if u go EPA you have 3 chances. 3rd chance if you fk up cya later your car is no longer ever in its life going to be road registrable again.

So much misinformation on topics like this. It causes more problems than simply just looking up the relevant documents online, that are freely available for anyone prepared to do a "GOOGLE Search".

There are no "3 strikes and your Out" rules regarding EPA testing in NSW (that I am aware of), and I have been through the process in recent years with a Superhcarged Toyota ute.

In my case I was transplanting a JDM 1GGZE engine into an '89 Hilux. Capacity was down from NA 2.4L to SC 2 Litre but being supercharged there is a multiplying factor.

Now the tests I had to complete for registration were

Engineer's Certificate for transplant, noise test for noise, and braking test for safety. All done by the engineer.

Weighbridge test to see that the Hilux wasn't adversely affected by the engine (weight factor) and to see if the Front-To-Rear balance was OK. Everything was.

Trip out to Penrith to the EPA Testing Centre (which was/is FREE). They hook your car up to the equipment, set you up on the rolling road and simulate a short drive as per their built-in program. They start off slowly, build up revs, simulate climbing a hill, accelerate and then slow down. The engineer then hands you the paperwork - they do NOT pass or fail you. This is a common misconception. It is up to your engineer to interpret the test results and then decide to grant you your Engineer's Certification. It is up to the RTA to decide if they will register your car in it's modified state, but 99% of the time they will go with Engineer's Certification.

Having said that, I have seen (first hand, the day I was out there doing my test) cars being told to go away and come back because they have been so over any reasonable limit that the testers would not continue with the test. But the paperwork they give you is a result sheet, not a PASS or a FAIL as such.

Peter