Liberty GT to Accord Euro

[pexel]

I'm currently a Liberty GT owner and really like the car. As I tend not to keep new cars for more than 2 years, it's time for me to start considering my next vehicle of choice.

THe Accord Euro has really caught my eye. The only heistation I have is the power output. Will I be disapointed from a performance stand point if I got this car? I'm worried I'll be missing the turbo too much. :D What do you guys think? Would you consider this move an upgrade or a downgrade?

Next step is to organise a test drive :cool:

[BLKCRX]

Personally I think the Euro in stock form is slightly disappointing, but once modified the improvements are very nice ! but give me a turbo any day !! The Euro is most certainly a cruiser, not a sports car, but with basic upgrades there is plenty of performance to be unleashed.

Regards James

[kleung]

IMHO, it's a bit of both. You lose power and some handling/grip (which is clearly important to you), but you gain just about everywhere else.

I test drove an 04 GT Lux 5AT before I decided on my Euro. The GT was one helluva lot of fun to drive. I was with a friend at the time, and he literally had it sideways coming off the freeway. With the salesman in the car. I don't think he was very impressed. But the pricetag, and ongoing running costs (insurance ~$1200 vs $700, fuel, servicing - AWD, turbo) put me off.

The Euro is cheaper, the interior is nicer, more toys, more comfortable, bombproof reliability. And in light of one of the other threads on here, it seems to fare well in an accident too.

You probably will miss the power and torque of the GT, but don't forget that the Euro has the most powerful NA engine in it's class.

But I'm biased (like most people on here) because I own one. :D Your best bet is, without a doubt, to go take a test drive and decide for yourself.

Ken

[jonolee]

with the normal Liberty, who would win between that and the euro

[BiLL|z0r]

Euro vs Std liberty, Euro would win easy. The Euro has more power and less drivetrain loss.

[rickyboy]

standard liberty comes in 2.0L, 2.5L or the 3.0L which standard one are you referring to ? AWD off the line will wins hands down, plus the comfort and ease of driving or just normal overtaking.

i drive occasional my father's GT its a joy, power on tap.

The change from the GT to the Euro will disappoint you.
Do you have the GT with the premium pack ? the 13 macintosh speakers and all leather trim ?

[jonolee]

the 2.5, friend has got a liberty, swear i've beaten it heh, but think my gear changing a lot better

guess have to wait for the hondata

[Tobster]

It all depends on what sort of driving you like to do and 0-100 figures don't tell everything. In certain conditions -- in gear roilling acceleration through the twisties -- a Liberty might well beat a Euro due to its AWD. The figure that's always stuck in my head was that although they weren't recorded in similar conditions, Wheels had exactly the same 0-100 and quarter miles times for a manual Euro as for an automatic XR6.

I seem to recall that someone found the in-gear 80-120 times for the Euro to be the same or faster than the Liberty GT -- which might give you more of a comparative driving experience, but it all depends on how you like to drive and what you look for in a car.

I was a bit worried about going to the Euro after a 3 litre V6 -- OK, it's nothing like a turbo GT, but I don't miss it at all. There's more to a fun driving experience than peak power figures and I just love my Accord Euro (at least, I did until it went to the crash repairers and now I just want it back!).

I don't know what sort of turbo lag there is in a GT, and while the Euro isn't regarded as being an overly fast car, in manual form it's no slug either. For me, its more fun to drive through the Adelaide hills than any car I've ever driven.

A recent Wheels article looked at the stock 2.5 Liberty, the Euro and the updated Mazda6 and I can relate to one of the comments in that: it has a sort of split personality: you can drive it gently and have luxury car, or you can drive it hard and out comes its maurauding twin brother. I find it to be one of those cars that the harder you drive it, the better it performs -- if you want to.

If you turn over your cars regularly, then you'll also find the resale pretty good, and I think the insurance and fuel running costs less than the GT. I often think of the Euro as 10K cheaper than a 3 series BMW with more features and more poke.

[tknova]

I had a 99 wrx and sold it for an accord euro. So i'm an ex turbo awd :P

No regrets!! Miss the outright performance of a turbo but the honda is a pleasure to drive and does have some oomph. I've just done some basic performace updates (exhaust & pod) and the car has alot more power than stock!! I couldn't be happier!

Take a euro for a spin and see what you think :)

[Chris73]

I know the post was the difference between a Liberty GT and Euro but just wanted to add the following.

I had a SS Commodore Gen III 235kW v8. Just got my new Euro in January. (Havn't driven it that hard at the moment still waiting for 1000k service).

I found it to be more refined than the SS. The power output that I can feel at the moment is not that bad. I would actually say that in 2nd from around 30km/h it pulls away quite well.

It's definitely not a v8 but then I am not using the 18-20L / 100km of fuel?

The only problem with the Euro is the ride height (definitely needs at least 2 inch drop).

[T-onedc2]

I've never driven the Euro but my Father has a GT Liberty 5AT. Although I love the Euro I've always seen it as lacking power and so would seem a step down if that's important to you. The GT is a rewarding drive that's for sure, even in Auto, but from standstill with no loading up the torque it needs 1500 or so revs before is snaps on to boost, but feels great!:)

[Weq]

u cant compare either cars to a commadore. commys lack everything accept the final power output :)

I own a liberty B4 along with my civic. The liberty is nice and refined, sports luxy cruiser. it has everything ontop of the euro - accept maybe refinement. I havnt been in an euro long enough, but i now the liberty has basically the same features. Interior wise, it atleast comes within 90% of matching everything the euro has. I like the interior of my b4 better then then new GT (more sporty) but the liberty has it all over the euro in terms of handling and performance.... active lsd, awd, turbo..... :)

One thing the liberty doesnt have though, is the reliabilty, lastability, and resale that honda's are renowned for. Im very disapointed at quickly the libertys have dropped value.

[EuroAccord13]

Honestly, I call this a downgrade..

Comparing a McIntosh sound system over the Honda OEM ones...

Turbo 2.0 over an N/A 2.4... which effectively makes it only 1/2 a car length faster :)...

Any many more :D :D

But Euro has strong resale values even though it has gone through 2 updates...

[aaronng]

Is the B4's interior similar to the Liberty Heritage? The Heritage's interior is no where as nice as the Euro's. If it is not similar, then ignore my post please. :p

[T-onedc2]

Is the B4's interior similar to the Liberty Heritage? The Heritage's interior is no where as nice as the Euro's. If it is not similar, then ignore my post please. :p
The standout feature of the B4 interior over other models at the time was the blueish inserts on the leather trim which I thought was a bit too ghastly in my opinion, but the new ones just ooze class, the interior is incredibly similar to E46 BMW's.

[pexel]

The change from the GT to the Euro will disappoint you.
Do you have the GT with the premium pack ? the 13 macintosh speakers and all leather trim ?

I have the MY05 GT. MY05 onwards Subaru dropped the Premium Pack and included it as standard. So, yes, I do have all leather trim, sunroof, and the Macintosh system (which is great BTW).

The Liberty does suffer from turbo lag and it is a bugger. I'd like to sell my MY05 before the 2.5L Liberty GT's arrive in Australia mainly to avoid losing too much $. I guess my next car could always be a MY07 GT with factory Sat Nav. ;)

[Catcha]

I have the MY05 GT. MY05 onwards Subaru dropped the Premium Pack and included it as standard. So, yes, I do have all leather trim, sunroof, and the Macintosh system (which is great BTW).

The Liberty does suffer from turbo lag and it is a bugger. I'd like to sell my MY05 before the 2.5L Liberty GT's arrive in Australia mainly to avoid losing too much $. I guess my next car could always be a MY07 GT with factory Sat Nav. ;)

Get and EcuTek from MRT that would minimise the lag problem :D

[Omotesando]

I have the MY05 GT. MY05 onwards Subaru dropped the Premium Pack and included it as standard. So, yes, I do have all leather trim, sunroof, and the Macintosh system (which is great BTW).

The Liberty does suffer from turbo lag and it is a bugger. I'd like to sell my MY05 before the 2.5L Liberty GT's arrive in Australia mainly to avoid losing too much $. I guess my next car could always be a MY07 GT with factory Sat Nav. ;)


Is your Liberty GT Auto or Manual? :)

The turbo lag isn't that obvious in the GT IMO it might have to do with the fact that it is auto gearbox? But when you purchase the Euro would it be manual or auto? Off the line the Euro's Auto is fairly sluggish, although once it gets going it is normal enough. The manual is nicer, but still won't have the shove in the back you might be accustomed to by now :)




Build quality between both cars are similar enough, I think the Euro has the slight edge here.


Resell value wise - both very similar too over 3 years time, difference is negligible, and retains value very well!


I think biggest problem is going from GT's AWD to FWD. FWD really leaves a lot to desire for unless it was light and performance oriented like an Integra Type-S/R. I would imagine going from GT to Euro you might be slightly disappointed, the Euro will feel like a boat in comparison especially with its stock suspension.

End of the day, no better cars out there with similar good resell value, and you'll only be driving it for 2 years :D

[Jus-10]

To me it's a downgrade....Look I love Honda's, but I am a huge fan of the Liberty and it is on a short-list for my next ride.

I would personally wait for the 2.5GT, but that said, you have already had a GT so might be after something different. If that's the case, your options are pretty limited from a performance-orientated perspective.

The Euro offers some pretty great value, but the GT has that extra advantage of all wheel drive and very decent performance!

[pexel]

Is your Liberty GT Auto or Manual? :)

The turbo lag isn't that obvious in the GT IMO it might have to do with the fact that it is auto gearbox? But when you purchase the Euro would it be manual or auto? Off the line the Euro's Auto is fairly sluggish, although once it gets going it is normal enough. The manual is nicer, but still won't have the shove in the back you might be accustomed to by now :)


The GT is an Auto :( Next car will be a manual, without a doubt.

I think I'll be holding off for now. Like Jus-10 mentioned, I may just wait for the 2.5L GT.

[cleary]

Test drive before you decide :)

I'm very happy with my euro, even at stock but I've never driven or even ridden in a new model liberty so I can't compare.
What I will say though is that I was really disappointed with the auto Euro, the manual was a lot more fun to drive :)

[trd_rolla]

The Euro's are surprisingly quick for what they are. Easily keeps up with a standard R32 GTST, so I'm assuming they should be somewhere in the mid 14s. I don't think you will be too dissapointed, esp. with the Euro's creature comforts.

[JeffyG]

Have you considered a Mazda6 MPS also? Ive never been in one, but have read that it is a close call with the Liberty GT.

[shane]

I own a 2.5i Liberty Manual. I test drove the Euro twice before deciding on the Liberty. What I disliked about the Euro was

1. Brakes. Virtually no feedback through the pedal. Felt like I was pressing on air and had to visually judge how hard I was applying the brakes. Drove me absolutley nuts. The NRMA review of this car stated that the brakes were disappointing also - I guess this is what McKinnon meant.

2. Seemed to be twitchy - stiff sway bars? I also lit up one front wheel while cornering without trying which concerned me. The stability thingy was ON at the time. I considered the Euro twitchy (quick to change direction without driver intention) eventhough I have stiffer suspension on the 2.5i than standard.

3. No trip meter - not a major issue but there really should be one. Is there in the new model?

4. I have been told that it's difficult to drive at a constant speed in traffic as if the drive by wire system is too crude. I didn't notice this but sure I would have picked it up in time.

5. Too much chrome.

6. Seats hurt my arse badly - twice. Couldn't explain it! Probably just me.

What was good -
The gear change - scarey smooth
Engine pick up - easily accelerated cleanly up the SE freeway in Adelaide in 5th gear from 100 to 140kph.
Dual Climate control

I doubt there would be much between the Euro and 2.5i in manual form through the Adelaide hills unless it was wet - then forget it, no competition. The 2.5i would be the pick hands down.


As for keeping up with an XR6 - the manual 2.5i running on 98 will do this. I have proven this at 3 consecutive sets of lights one night, against an AUTO XR6. I doubt I could keep with a manual version.

[aaronng]

Have you considered a Mazda6 MPS also? Ive never been in one, but have read that it is a close call with the Liberty GT.
I've been in both, the Liberty GT's interior spanks the MPS' one in, out and upside down. :p

[BiLL|z0r]

Just some comment as a Euro driver.

1. Brakes. Virtually no feedback through the pedal. Felt like I was pressing on air and had to visually judge how hard I was applying the brakes. Drove me absolutley nuts. The NRMA review of this car stated that the brakes were disappointing also - I guess this is what McKinnon meant.
I find this as well. The brakes are very light but extremely effective and quite large for the car. They do tend to "grab" due to the power assisted braking as well.


2. Seemed to be twitchy - stiff sway bars? I also lit up one front wheel while cornering without trying which concerned me. The stability thingy was ON at the time. I considered the Euro twitchy (quick to change direction without driver intention) eventhough I have stiffer suspension on the 2.5i than standard.
The Euro has very stiff suspension for a stock car though. The Stability assist does seem to take a second before it kicks in. I can spin the wheels very easily from a standing start, and I have an auto.


3. No trip meter - not a major issue but there really should be one. Is there in the new model?
It has been addressed in the '06 model. Unfortunately most of us have 05 or earlier :(


4. I have been told that it's difficult to drive at a constant speed in traffic as if the drive by wire system is too crude. I didn't notice this but sure I would have picked it up in time.
Haven't noticed it myself and I do 90% city driving. I find you do so many diff speeds anyway in traffic.


5. Too much chrome.
It looks nice though, but does show fingure prints and greasy marks easily.


6. Seats hurt my arse badly - twice. Couldn't explain it! Probably just me.
You have a funny shaped ass then :) j/k. I find the seats wonderful compared to my lancer.

What was good -

The gear change - scarey smooth Oh yeah, 1 of the huge selling points.


Engine pick up - easily accelerated cleanly up the SE freeway in Adelaide in 5th gear from 100 to 140kph.
It does have one of the best 5th gear pickups for a n/a 4cyl car.


Dual Climate control
I thought it was a bit of a wank at first, but my wife and I actually do use it quite a lot.

[aaronng]

I own a 2.5i Liberty Manual. I test drove the Euro twice before deciding on the Liberty. What I disliked about the Euro was

1. Brakes. Virtually no feedback through the pedal. Felt like I was pressing on air and had to visually judge how hard I was applying the brakes. Drove me absolutley nuts. The NRMA review of this car stated that the brakes were disappointing also - I guess this is what McKinnon meant.
Seems ok to me. Guess you have to get used to it. I drove the 2.5L Legacy Heritage (the previous model) before from Canberra to Sydney, and I thought the brake feedback was terrible. I had to press very hard to get some stopping power going.

What I don't like about the Euro's brakes though is that while it has great initial bite, pressing harder doesn't give that much more braking power.



2. Seemed to be twitchy - stiff sway bars? I also lit up one front wheel while cornering without trying which concerned me. The stability thingy was ON at the time. I considered the Euro twitchy (quick to change direction without driver intention) eventhough I have stiffer suspension on the 2.5i than standard.
The Euro has no LSD unlike your Liberty (lucky bugger!). Hence it will light up the inner wheel, especially since it is a FWD. It's not actually twitchy, but rather it tramlines. If there is a slant in the road surface for one wheel (say a right slant that hits the right wheel), then the car suddenly pulls to the right. It is scary and UNDESIRABLE! :(



3. No trip meter - not a major issue but there really should be one. Is there in the new model?
The 2006 model has it. Tempting us to upgrade. They should have included it in the first place since the 2003 Accord in Japan has the trip computer in the base model!



4. I have been told that it's difficult to drive at a constant speed in traffic as if the drive by wire system is too crude. I didn't notice this but sure I would have picked it up in time.
I haven't noticed this. Mine must be a good one? :) It is difficult to drive at low speeds in 1st gear at low RPM smoothly though.



5. Too much chrome.
Yeah... I would have preferred the front chrome to be body coloured. Window chrome is ok though. The Euro Sport has black trim instead of chrome and dark metal door handles. Looks a bit boring though.



6. Seats hurt my arse badly - twice. Couldn't explain it! Probably just me.
You have a square bum? :p Joking! The Outlack H6's leather seats hurt my bum bad. Bad enough to give me pins and needles in my bum after the drive back from Blue Mountains. The Euro's seat is great for my bum. I made the trip to Canberra without pins and needles or even feeling sleepy! Let me emphasise, I LOVE THE EURO SEATS!!!!!!!! Really, The Liberty is better than the Euro in many departments, but I very very much prefer the seats of the Euro. :D



What was good -
The gear change - scarey smooth
Engine pick up - easily accelerated cleanly up the SE freeway in Adelaide in 5th gear from 100 to 140kph.
Dual Climate control

I doubt there would be much between the Euro and 2.5i in manual form through the Adelaide hills unless it was wet - then forget it, no competition. The 2.5i would be the pick hands down.
I bet if the hills were smooth flowing corners that the Euro would be quicker than the 2.5i. If it were sharper corners, then the Liberty would be quicker (because the inner wheel spins if you apply power too early in the tight corner!).



As for keeping up with an XR6 - the manual 2.5i running on 98 will do this. I have proven this at 3 consecutive sets of lights one night, against an AUTO XR6. I doubt I could keep with a manual version.
Have you tried keeping up with a manual Euro? :p (on the drag strip of course). Would be interesting to see.

[Omotesando]

Regarding the brake pedal feel of the Euro - don't really think its a big problem since you're going to be driving the Euro around the circuit anyway :) I find the initial bite to be a bit too hard for my taste so if you have a sensitive passenger riding, (s)he might complain a bit.


I think it brakes quite effectively and the caliper/rotor combo is quite big so you can trust it completely. But like I said before, the ABS in this car is a nuisance, kicks in way too early and increases potential braking distance I think!

[BiLL|z0r]

The inital bite is very hard, I agree. My wife has commented on it, both as a passenger and a driver of the car.

[as001]

the eletronic throttle drives me nuts at times...the liberty throttle is spot on

[shane]

The Liberty throttle is very very good. I can change from walking pace (foot not on pedal) to running pace and then to putting pace without any acceleration jerk whatsoever. Then she'll fly up to redline in less than a second without hesitation - but I don't do that very often.

I find this :wave: really annoying.

[Omotesando]

I have heard some reviewer say this Throttle being jerky on the Euro as well, I think it was Autospeed.

Anyway, for some reason I don't find this to be so. I can easily adjust the level of throttle.

Did you guys notice that the ACCELERATOR on the Euro is per BMW style? You actually step down on it, not push it forward.

As such to make better adjustment you need to use your toes to press against it, also you got to put your whole foot on the pedal. If you press in the middle of the pedal, of course its going to be jerky, you're only getting half the adjustment you should get!

[shane]

I test drove the Euro the other day since I'm thinking about changing over from the Liberty but two things really bugged me (apart from the occasional loss of traction) -

1. The drivetrain snatch. Compared to the Liberty, as soon as I lift my foot off of the accelerator a little (I'm talking about the manual here), the Euro engine brakes quite a bit. Then when I press down on the accelerator again (ever so slightly) the car seemed to jerk forward. The Euro never wanted to cruise and the ride felt very "on-edge".

2. The droning sound. This could have just been due to the particular car I drove but even with decent revs on board (over 4000rpm) the engine and exhaust just droned. It never sounded very nice at all. Also when engine braking, the same sound appeared. There was none of that boxer growl for certain (yes I know the Euro engine is in-line).

So what do Euro owners think of this? If I do buy a used model what should I look out for please? I have just realised that I'll have to buy a luxury model to get the 225/45/R17 tyres.

Also wondering about torque distribution in the wet. I reckon I would loose the front wheels often.

Ta,
Shane.

[BiLL|z0r]

It sounds to me you got a thrashed test car. Although mine is auto it certainly doesn't have any of those traits. It's soooo quiet, all the way through the rev range, if fact I've bounced off the rev limiter several times cause it was so quite I thouht I had more revs to go.

As far as wet traction, the traction control and stability assist works well, but could kick in earlier I think.

If you want 17" wheels but not everything else the Lux has, just buy some aftermarket rims and sell the 16" on ebay.

[ECU-MAN]

I fully agree with ya Billzor

I have a MT, and dont get any of thoes sympoms, I always hit fuel cut out if I havnt driven it for a while, ( just cant get used to the lower redline ). very quiet engines.

the drive fine in the wet, but driving with traction control off and a wet road will result in wheel spin.

[EuroAccord13]

*MERGED*

[shane]

*ANNOYED*

[yfin]

1. The drivetrain snatch. Compared to the Liberty, as soon as I lift my foot off of the accelerator a little (I'm talking about the manual here), the Euro engine brakes quite a bit. Then when I press down on the accelerator again (ever so slightly) the car seemed to jerk forward. The Euro never wanted to cruise and the ride felt very "on-edge".

2. The droning sound. This could have just been due to the particular car I drove but even with decent revs on board (over 4000rpm) the engine and exhaust just droned. It never sounded very nice at all. Also when engine braking, the same sound appeared. There was none of that boxer growl for certain (yes I know the Euro engine is in-line).

Also wondering about torque distribution in the wet. I reckon I would loose the front wheels often.


I think you need to adapt your driving a little. I remember when I first got the Euro it wasn't so easy to drive smoothly. After a few days once you are used to the clutch, throttle and gear shift it is as smooth as silk. Sometimes it is scary smooth and I lose track of where I am in the rev range.

Re the droning sound - something isn't right with the car you drove. Perhaps thethe intake was modified or the exahust.

Wheel spin in the wet isn't a huge problem if you have decent tyres.

[Omotesando]

When I saw the bit where this guy talks about there's 'none of the boxer growl' I instantly stopped and thought he has no clue about cars.


The Liberty GT doesn't even have unequal length manifold like the WRX/STI, and most certainly doesn't have ANY sound resembling a boxer note at all, in fact the Liberty GT's exhaust sounds raspy.

WHAT BOXER NOTE?



The Euro is slightly more throttle responsive (jerky) than a Liberty GT because the latter is a turbo - its designed so it doesn't run as much Ignition Timing when you suddenly floor it, but to compensate for lack of throttle response/timing, the turbo will spool up and and then that's when it accelerates. The last time I drove a Pulsar 1.8 or a Magna 3.5, now THOSE cars were much jerkier than the Euro. Like I said, the accelerator on the EURO is BMW style like, you got to know how to use it.

Anyway, I just think this person's just too picky - especially if he can 'hear' a non-existant boxer growl on the liberty.

[boleh]

1. Brakes. Virtually no feedback through the pedal. Felt like I was pressing on air and had to visually judge how hard I was applying the brakes. Drove me absolutley nuts. The NRMA review of this car stated that the brakes were disappointing also - I guess this is what McKinnon meant.
A little bit.


2. Seemed to be twitchy - stiff sway bars? I also lit up one front wheel while cornering without trying which concerned me. The stability thingy was ON at the time. I considered the Euro twitchy (quick to change direction without driver intention) eventhough I have stiffer suspension on the 2.5i than standard.
Not too sure what u meant but I find my Euro pretty good at cornering.. the March edition of Wheels had the Euro at 10th/21st position for lateral G test.


3. No trip meter - not a major issue but there really should be one. Is there in the new model?
That was a shame, wasn it? But fortunayely, it's included in the 06 model.


4. I have been told that it's difficult to drive at a constant speed in traffic as if the drive by wire system is too crude. I didn't notice this but sure I would have picked it up in time.
Yes, the drive by wire thingy took a bit of getting used to. I'm ok with it now. But why dont u use the cruise control if you wanna go constant?


5. Too much chrome.
LOL. That was one of the X factors for me to go for the Euro rather than Mazda 6. A matter of personal preference I guess..


6. Seats hurt my arse badly - twice. Couldn't explain it! Probably just me.
Ermm... I find it ok...


What was good -
The gear change - scarey smooth
Engine pick up - easily accelerated cleanly up the SE freeway in Adelaide in 5th gear from 100 to 140kph.
Dual Climate control
Funny.. I find the gear shift not as smooth as I've expected it to be..

[shane]

When I saw the bit where this guy talks about there's 'none of the boxer growl' I instantly stopped and thought he has no clue about cars.


The Liberty GT doesn't even have unequal length manifold like the WRX/STI, and most certainly doesn't have ANY sound resembling a boxer note at all, in fact the Liberty GT's exhaust sounds raspy.

WHAT BOXER NOTE?



The Euro is slightly more throttle responsive (jerky) than a Liberty GT because the latter is a turbo - its designed so it doesn't run as much Ignition Timing when you suddenly floor it, but to compensate for lack of throttle response/timing, the turbo will spool up and and then that's when it accelerates. The last time I drove a Pulsar 1.8 or a Magna 3.5, now THOSE cars were much jerkier than the Euro. Like I said, the accelerator on the EURO is BMW style like, you got to know how to use it.

Anyway, I just think this person's just too picky - especially if he can 'hear' a non-existant boxer growl on the liberty.

Above 3000rpm in my manual 2.5i Liberty, the growl the Liberty makes is obvious. Easily heard by the driver. Above 4000rpm it's even more obvious. How about that? This sounds doesn't come the tailpipe - it's carried through the cabin. The Euro engine sounded dull.

I was comparing the drivetrain snatch of the Euro to the 2.5i (non-turbo), which has none. This was by far the greatest difference I noticed between the cars. When taking my foot off of the accelerator, the Euro would immediatley engine brake much more than the 2.5i at equivalent revs. Then when putting my foot back on the accelerator - *no matter how gently* - the car would jerk forward.

To me driving the Euro feels like a computer game - gear selection is clunk clunk without feel, acclerator is very on/off.

The Euro does corner well though straight off the showroom floor and I like the firm suspension. Prefer the dash of the Euro too to the 2.5i.

[as001]

I wasnt a fan of the gear box in the liberty it felt notchy compared to the euro gear box I like the clunk clunk feel but I guess each to there own, would be interesting to see how the new liberty 2.0R goes

[yfin]

Above 3000rpm in my manual 2.5i Liberty, the growl the Liberty makes is obvious. Easily heard by the driver. Above 4000rpm it's even more obvious. How about that? This sounds doesn't come the tailpipe - it's carried through the cabin. The Euro engine sounded dull.

I was comparing the drivetrain snatch of the Euro to the 2.5i (non-turbo), which has none. This was by far the greatest difference I noticed between the cars. When taking my foot off of the accelerator, the Euro would immediatley engine brake much more than the 2.5i at equivalent revs. Then when putting my foot back on the accelerator - *no matter how gently* - the car would jerk forward.

To me driving the Euro feels like a computer game - gear selection is clunk clunk without feel, acclerator is very on/off.

The Euro does corner well though straight off the showroom floor and I like the firm suspension. Prefer the dash of the Euro too to the 2.5i.

Wow - all this knowledge you have accumulated about how the euro drives from one short test drive? lol. The clunk clunk from the gearbox is from you forgetting to press the clutch pedal ;) The engine braking is your left foot on the brake by accident. :DAnd the computer game feel is the vibrating seat function you turned on (2006 model - lol). :wave:

But seriously - jokes aside - take the car out for another test drive and maybe you might change your view about the clunk clunk gearboxl, dull engine sound etc as it has no correlation to the car I own.

[nitro]

3. No trip meter - not a major issue but there really should be one. Is there in the new model?


Do mean trip computer? with fuel usage, and range remaning etc? Cause my 03 Lux has definitely got a dual Trip Meter...

[shane]

That was my third hourish test drive through the adelaide hills. On the first drive I liked the gearshift feel but now it feels a little dead. The lib's is much nicer. Initially it was too notchy when new but after 30,000kms it's just right. Minor detail really anyway.

[as001]

I cant remember who mentioned on this forum but apparently the 06 model throttle has been revised

[shane]

Oh ! Well that would change my opinions somewhat! Hmmmmm Might have to do a fourth testdrive.

[albii]

shane ...seriously..you think the liberty would be quicker through the twisties than a euro...paaahhhleeeasssee.....
awd cars are full of grip yes but that doesnt mean they handle well...too much understeer push over steer...how do i know ?? because i have owned a lancer gsr ,liberty rs turbo and a forester gt...
i seriously considered a 2.5i when i was searching for a new car and even though it is very refined and well built it was also had a very low rent interior and not nearly enough power to ever need awd.. so say what you want but truth is the 2.5i never beat the euro in any comparison...btw the euro pulls more cornering gs and outbrakes a liberty gt...nuff said.
also i would put the libertys gearshift on par with the mazda 6 which doesnt say much.

[shane]

So albii, you didn't buy the last Wheels magazine did you by any chance, or did you test the max g's and braking distance yourself when you test drove these cars. :o What is it about this forum?

Anyway, the Gen4 (current gen) libs came out with a relatively low stiffness rear sway bar, for safety reasons I assume, and probably comfort. Upgrading this to a whiteline version virtually eliminates this and changes the car drammatically. Also the 2.5i is softer sprung than the Euro and doesn't have double wishbone front suspension as per the Euro.

BUT! given the fact that the front wheels have lost traction during each of my Euro test drives, I will wait until some very wet weather for another test drive. Through the Adelaide hills on a winters day should prove interesting. The Lib has never placed a wheel wrong or lost traction in any way in any weather - even when pushed hard in the wet and especially when accelerating hard out of a wet corner. Hell I got front wheel spin accelerating out of a dry corner in the Euro last week! Bit of aconcern actually....

Albii did you test drive the manual or auto 2.5i ? The auto is much slower - bit of a Subaru thing!

[Tobster]

Can an '06 manual Euro owner confirm this please?
I'm not aware of it, but that doesn't mean to say it hasn't happened.

The Euro electronic throttle takes a little getting used to -- I can't drive it like I do other cars without an electronic throttle. You have to be prepared to put your foot down more than what you think you should. I remember reading Honda's material about the car, and they say that the throttle input varies with speed -- which means that at low speeds you need to sink the boot a bit more.

Personally, I don't think it's all in the electronic throttle -- I think part of the problem is a very low down lack of torque which requires revs to get past it.

I didn't bother driving a Liberty because they didn't offer a manual with leather seats and I couldn't afford a GT -- plus I think the Euro is nicer.

And while the Euro gearbox is nice, I think the Mazda6 box is much better. The new Mazda6 electronic throttle actually doesn't feel or drive differently to other throttles -- it's pretty good. I still think the Mazda6 is a nice car -- I just like the Euro more.

The other thing to bear in mind is that when a lot of people test drive cars, they drive them harder than they do in a lot of normal driving, looking for weak spots. Every car drives differently: you don't have time to find the intricacies and the balance points of the car, what it can and can't do -- that comes with time and familiarity. If you're used to an all-wheel drive car, a front-driver will feel strange -- it doesn't handle in the same way. It's why so many people get out of their Falcadore and say "Shit front wheel drive" because they're trying to drive them like a RWD -- it just doesn't work.

Personally, I think they're all pretty nice cars -- and all the comparison reviews all say you can't go wrong with any of them. It's just a matter of sorting out what works best for you.

[BiLL|z0r]

Shane, in wet weather the Liberty will handle better because it's AWD. If it didn't I'd be worried.

[EuroAccord13]

Just stick to your liberty since you have things you find in the Euro that isn't up to scratch....






*ANNOYED*

[socheerio]

Boy oh boy. Shane you are such a fusspot. You other guys are being so nice. How can you restrain yourselves. Shane yousaid you had harder suspension and differnet roll bars so thats pretty unfair to then complain about a bit of wheelspin :(

[albii]

shane...isnt there a liberty forum you can go to and proclaim how awesome your car is??...mmm wheelspin probs hey...last time i checked the wheels didnt spin in my euro because of the vsa....or maybe the one you drove didnt have it lol...
yes i test drove the 2.5i manual up and down hills and it wasnt a very exiting car let me tell you...
that being said i definately would not say it was a shitbox because it was just as refined as the euro was but the gearshift was not as good and the power was non existant.....even the mazda 6 would rape it..
imo..subaru built a fine but boring car with the liberty...
dont come here on this forum and try to convince us all that your liberty 2.5i is a better car than the euro because if anyone shared your opinion they would have just bought it instaed of the euro..that easy....
if you wanna trade your boring liberty for a car that will outhandle ,outpace,outdrive it then you best go do it before you lose too much on your trade in.

[albii]

So albii, you didn't buy the last Wheels magazine did you by any chance, or did you test the max g's and braking distance yourself when you test drove these cars. :o What is it about this forum?


no shane i dont have the equipment to measure max gs and braking distance....but what i do have is equipment to measure dickheads and wankers..works well too. :wave:

[albii]

is that better socheerio?

[aleksandrov]

... When taking my foot off of the accelerator, the Euro would immediatley engine brake much more than the 2.5i at equivalent revs. Then when putting my foot back on the accelerator - *no matter how gently* - the car would jerk forward.

If you prefer sporty driving, that's actually a good thing, since it offers more precise control over the car's acceleration and deceleration. You should try driving a race car! Having said that, the Euro can be driven very smoothly after you get used to it (depending on how sensitive of a driver you are), as somebody else already said.

[Datuk]

Honda all the way!

[boleh]

Honda all the way!
Datuk pun ada :thumbsup:

[zuiko]

I own a 2.5i Liberty Manual. I test drove the Euro twice before deciding on the Liberty. What I disliked about the Euro was


We're all very happy for you. You can't imagine how happy we all are that you are not a Euro owner.



6. Seats hurt my arse badly - twice. Couldn't explain it! Probably just me.


It's definitely you. I think you're blaming the seats for what you got up to the night before.

[HVL]

if u think the euro's accelerator is jerky, too sensitive, try driving a dc2 intergra type r :D

guess with honda cars, either u like it or u don't, as they drive very differently to other cars.

[aleksandrov]

It's a shame that some people can't respond to differing opinions with some civility, especially when we are talking about criticisms of our favourite car, rather than an attack on our parents, siblings or children.

[KWICKS]

It's definitely you. I think you're blaming the seats for what you got up to the night before.
That kind of personal attack smalls of immaturity. Maybe you could learn a lot from someone with an objective point of view if you took the time to listen. Sure the original criticisms were picky, but most are validated and supported on this forum by others, if not in this thread then in many before it. Bit of respect can go a long way ;) . Honda's are generally great cars, the Euro is no exception, but horses for courses, this guy may not want a Euro based on his experience and needs and that's a valid point to make on this forum IMO.

[socheerio]

That kind of personal attack smalls of immaturity. Maybe you could learn a lot from someone with an objective point of view if you took the time to listen. Sure the original criticisms were picky, but most are validated and supported on this forum by others, if not in this thread then in many before it. Bit of respect can go a long way ;) . Honda's are generally great cars, the Euro is no exception, but horses for courses, this guy may not want a Euro based on his experience and needs and that's a valid point to make on this forum IMO.
Whoa there coach!

No car is perfect, but on this board, Euro wins everytime. Don't spoil the mystique with logic now...suggesting Shane was out horseriding isnt personal attack. U must have a dirty mind :p

[hifiandmtb]

No car is perfect, but on this board, Euro wins everytime.
Gee, that's a pity. I was hoping to learn from this forum & was of the understanding that a degree of impartiality & objectivity go a long way.

I seriously looked at the Accord Euro when shopping for my current ride (MY04 Subaru Liberty 2.5i wagon) but the pros & cons came down to the Subaru's side of the fence when looking at my circumstances.

However, when a workmate asked me what he should buy, I immediately recommended the Euro. Why? He loves the luxury, finish & image. He didn't want a wagon, care about AWD or give a fig about excessive grunt. Perfect for him & he's happy as Larry.

[EuroAccord13]

No car is perfect, but on this board, Euro wins everytime.


I beg to differ, Yes, Euro owners will definately vouch for their cars, happens in every forums, can't help it but not everyone here has only good things to say about the Euro, there are, like others said, constructive critisms of the car.. Even I say bad things about the Euro at times. It really comes to to each individuals' preferences of what they want in their cars and so on.

Euros do not win everytime in this board...

[socheerio]

I beg to differ, Yes, Euro owners will definately vouch for their cars, happens in every forums, can't help it but not everyone here has only good things to say about the Euro, there are, like others said, constructive critisms of the car.. Even I say bad things about the Euro at times. It really comes to to each individuals' preferences of what they want in their cars and so on.

Euros do not win everytime in this board...
Yeah I was thinking more that as most people on here have bought one it would suit their priorities more than the competitors, hence the general feeling here would understandably be that the Euro is the pick. Not meaning to suggest that anyone here is blind to the (few) faults - as you say many have endeavoured to provide a well-balanced opinion of their cars :)

[KWICKS]

I've just googled Tatra 603. Apparently one of Chekoslovakia's finest! Care to tell us how you came by it on another thread socheerio?

[shane]

You know, I like this Honda forum just the way it is - so if I buy an Accord Euro, I won't waste any time at work surfing here.

[socheerio]

Man Shane that makes less sense than the bag and buy caper itself. Is it Monday?

[shane]

Well that's got to be the icing on the cake.

[socheerio]

Cake? Is it your birthday? So you're and Aries? I'd have had you down as something else - Gemini perhaps?

[with genuine feeling] Haaapy Biiirthday dear Shaaaane, happy birthday to you .

[to be deleted shortly due to inappropriate content IMHO]

[hifiandmtb]

Hi Shane - pleased to meet you! I've been reading the rest of this thread & feel that some have been rather unkind to you. Cheery wave from me! :wave:

[WMD]

thats lovely :wave:

[Sky Pilot]

OK this is the accord euro area yes i want to know about accelerataion compared to a V8 falcon fuel conomy and tyre wear

anyone here who owns one could they please tel me

also will they run on normal petrol and not that fancy hioctane stuff as we dont get it out our way

[hifiandmtb]

Well, from what I have learned today, if it doesn't have at least one turbo (preferably two) it will not be very fast at all :wave:

[KWICKS]

OK this is the accord euro area yes i want to know about accelerataion compared to a V8 falcon fuel conomy and tyre wear

anyone here who owns one could they please tel me

also will they run on normal petrol and not that fancy hioctane stuff as we dont get it out our way
Ask your dealer or do a search man. This forum is sooo complex compared to others, and some might say overmoderated - i've been here 1 day and already seen my posts deleted and a new topic locked after 1 intro - but I am working it out. Its not that hard. just wish everyone would get ovger themselves and get rid of all the big pics that take forever to download. Or ask your dealer. :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: POWER! :D

[Sky Pilot]

Well, from what I have learned today, if it doesn't have at least one turbo (preferably two) it will not be very fast at all :wave:I don want no turbo crap to hard to look after and keep in one peace my mate jack had a turbo cordia and it blew up twice no htnaks

i just want to no about the normal one the accord euro

its gotta be qick and relible and run on normal unleaded petrol

[Sky Pilot]

Ask your dealer or do a search man. This forum is sooo complex compared to others, and some might say overmoderated - i've been here 1 day and already seen my posts deleted and a new topic locked after 1 intro - but I am working it out. Its not that hard. just wish everyone would get ovger themselves and get rid of all the big pics that take forever to download. Or ask your dealer. :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: :honda: POWER! :Dmr qicks me dealer is the local toyota dealer and i dont think i bet to start askin him about buyin a honda. i have to go into the big smoke to see a honda dealer bit worried about service to tell the truth

me and jas can do most stuff in the shed but these new engines have got coputers in them and we cant do that

[yfin]

Hey noobs (Kwicks, hifandmtb, socheerio, wmd, Skypilot and maybe others who want to sign up today) - welcome to ozhonda.

This forum is for people who have serious questions. We have a spam section in the lounge and a "new user form" accessible from the front page. Further, - questions like the fuel used in an Accord Euro can be easily answered using the search feature.

Please follow my suggestions above - otherwise we will need to "overmoderate" - as one of you put it. That can mean editing or deleting your posts or disabling your account if you don't follow the rules.

ps. don't reply to my post in this thread - if you have any questions send me a private message.

[shane]

Hi Guys! :wave: Where's John - wish he was here too :wave:

[yfin]

I am closing this thread for now. Hopefully Shane and his Subaru forum buddies can think about whether spamming other forums is something grown men should be doing. Hopefully Ozhonda members would not stoop so low on the Subaru forums.

Shane I just got your PM asking to disable your account - so if people are wondering why he is "banned" it was at his request.

ps. It is a shame some of you think we overmoderate posts. Perhaps we should do nothing and let threads like these just turn to spam.

**UPDATE - THREAD REOPENED