Lowering - Need definative answers please

[SiReal]

Hey all,

I have searched to absolute death over the past two days and the search has yielded certain results. Please, people with experience assist in the definative guide to lowering.

Please note, I am only referring to legit methods of lowering. This exercise does not involve spring compression.

What happens if the car is lowered using aftermarket springs (doesn't matter which brand):

STOCK SHOCKS:

1.5": Greater handling capability, should be legal, slight camber, Shock life decreased but not greatly? Life span =??
2": Greater handling capability, possibility for illegality, noticable camber, shock life decreased greatly? Life span =??
2+": Handling may be comprised. possibility for illegality, ridicoulous camber, need camber kit, shock life greatly shortened. Life span =??
My greatest concern is lowering by 1.5 - 2 inches on stock shocks. This is because, aftermarket suspension components are hard to source for a yank accord CG series. Hence I would like to keep the stock shocks. What is the best height to go without compromising too much life of stock shock?

I am currently running stock 15"s and will upgrade to 17"s. Will the job of 1.5" springs be sufficient for that non 4WD look?

I've attached a pic of an accord with 1.4" Tein HTECH springs. Is this low enough for that awesome 17"s look? Cos usually when u put 17"s on, the car sits higher.

http://www.tein.com/ti/img/ga542.jpg


Anyway help is much appreciated.

Cheers

SiReal

P.S. I am not a noob. Just planning for the future.

[amato2]

i have a CG accord and i have a koni yellow +kings lows package and i have never looked back....by the way it looks awsome sorry no pics......its alot lower than the pic you have posted up

[SiReal]

hows the camber like? excessive? mang,...we need more CG accord owners.

I'm looking on ebay now and they have tokico and KYB shocks for pretty cheap...they aren't adjustable however.

Whats a comfortable spring rate?

[02ZZI]

i think you need it lower then that man, just make sure you choose the right offset and you shouldnt have any troubles

[amato2]

well camber is in the normal range...its obviously not as good as stock but its not that low that i need a camber kit.........your right about more CG owners, the car is as good as any to mod id luv it too if there where more engine parts like cam pistons stuff like that for the V6

[Zdster]

As soon as you lower any amount shock life is compromised. However, I do remember someone saying that they had really lowered there car with just springs and the shock had been fine for a while.


My personal suggestion is to pick up a set of height adjustable coilovers with a decent spring rate. That way the shocks are matched to the springs and you can set the height at whatever you feel looks right. If costs are an issue and you cant find a good set, I would wait until you get the new wheels to determine the ride height as it will be different to your current wheels.

Re: camber. It is not usually that much of a problem when lowering (unless it is at say -3) you should be more interested in the toe. Get the toe right and you will be able to live with the camber wear.

[SiReal]

Thank you all for your responses!! Very informative and useful and helpful as well. Zdster, you have very wise advice. As painful as it seems, I shall have to wait for the stock wheel tyres to finish first (the fronts are still 80% @#$@#!). Thank you once again. Its just unbearable to see the car so high up.

[Domokun SPL]

Ok, where to start.

First, how old are you stock shock absorbers. If they are anything over say 75,000km I will tell you right off the bat they need to be changed anyway. Shock absorbers should ideally be changed every 50,000km, SPECIALLY when they are stock units.

When honda designed the shock absorber they use on the car, they would have made it to work best at the height which the stock car is at. Afterall, the shock had no other purpose but to work properly at stock height. Saying this, dropping the car any distance will take the shock outside its "ideal working range", but it probably would some small tolerances anyway, but not 1inch+.

There are two paths that you can take, both are expensive if you want to do it properly. You can either get coilovers, as tends to be the trend with lots of honda drivers, or you can get adjustable (not damper, but height) shock absorbers. As an example, Bilstein shock absorbers are height adjustable via the use of circlip groves. They are designed to be adjustable, therefore work in all situations as is required, to damp. Alternativly, as i am sure you know, coilovers are screw adjustable, the disadvantage of coilovers though is that often there is a fixed combo of damping/springrate, where with a shock you can put various different springs on to what suits your needs best. For this reason, i would suggest a shock/spring combo over a coilover. Also, coilovers are designed for nice smooth japanese roads...not Australia.

Now, camber. Regarless what you drop the car, you MUST do something about the camber. Little differences in camber wont really affect the drive, but when you are 0.5 degrees out or more, you can really feel the difference when a car goes and gets properly aligned. If lowering a car properly, you will probably want to buy some adjust camber bushes at the same time as buying either coilovers or shock/springs.

Life span is difficult to say, but if the shocks are old anyway, forget about worrying about lifespan.

Putting on 17 inch wheels will NOT, or I guess I should say should not, alter the difference between the tyre and the gaurd. You want to keep the same rolling diameter of the wheel, therefore the same centre of wheel to gaurd heights when chaning wheels. If you change the rolling diamter, you will have an inaccurate speedo.

Use this website to find suitable tyres for you based on comparing to the standard tyres. http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp

In my opinion, the car above is at a perfect height. With some 17's it will look perfect.

ADDED LATER

If you want to talk about the change to handling of a car with lowering, you need to consider two variables. Centre of gravity (the one everyone knows about) and the roll centre of the car (specific to each car). Here are some quick definitions

Centre of gravity: the point in any object about which it is in perfect balance no matter how it is turned or rotated around that point.

Roll centre: the center about which body roll takes place during cornering. The position of this center is determined by the suspension geometry.

Now, the ideal thing with a car is to have the roll centre above the CoG, where the "best" location is different for each car. If the car is lowered to be close to or below the CoG, the car will tend to slide rather then roll and grip. This is due to the fact that the suspension is no longer able to properly transfer weight to the outside tyres.

Most people that do "at home" lowering jobs really should investigate things deeper if they are not just lowering for looks but also car about handling. Ive put my car on what is the most suitable for it to handle best, it could be lower and look cooler, but ill tell you when a wagon is beeping/flashing 180's/s15's/skylines in the hills telling them to get out the way, you know you made the right choice for handle vs looks.

At this point, I will say, go talk to some people that race whatever car you drive, or go talk to some honda suspension experts. Mr corner mechanic that does suspension swaps wont know what the hell he is talking about, he just wants to sell things to you.


Another important point, dont forget that lowering a car a larger distance also means less travel. If a spring is 4kg/mm, it doesnt matter where along the spring it is (unless progressive), the car will compress it 1mm with 4kg of force. So, the less travel you have, the more youll be bouncing off the bump stops.

Hope that info somehow helped more then it raised more questions/confused.

[Domokun SPL]

Also, please have a read of this thread on Skylines Australia.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103158&hl=

It is a stock shock with aftermarket spring.

[SiReal]

Many thanks for that. Highly helpful. Arigatou. :)

[vtec_jet]

ur a noOb JeFF thats all ...lol jks!! info does come usefull im glad you came outta your shell to scope this out... GO CG accords!!!! lol....onli the pimps drive them...oh by the way jeff, check out "JOYPOP" he has a 2000 CG accord like mine lowered on 17" rims, met the guy the otha day, chek it out find him on ozhonda...its a hot ride mite come of sum use to u brutha!!

[SiReal]

haha...fudge u solo....i pm'ed him but he didnt reply..i wanna do it properly. After the forest section on the GOR cruise, i realised, that I needed some decent shocks and springs. HAve u got pics of his ride that you can share (with permission :)) ?

[vtec_jet]

nah unfortunatly i dunt!! and i culdnt take some coz wen i met him it waz raining!! but its a sweet ride...yeah im glad ur taking it smart doing it the right way! one of us has to haha :p ive decided on pedders shox and king springs super low, which will be done asap!! hopefully 2morrow !!!! so i'll let u noe man....i'll even cruise 2 ur house so u can ave a look! lol..get msn...we need 2 chat!

[ekslut]

Good post 'Domokun SPL' +1 rep point for you :thumbsup: