Stock B16a Reving Past 8000rpm??

[del501]

Hey guys, STOCK delsol with b16a2 reving past 8000rpm is tha tpossible :confused: my mate reckons it can at around 8200 or so.

[barefootbonzai]

8200 sounds normal

[gelo]

out off is at 8200

[BlitZ]

8200 son is best for stock.

[BlitZ]

Yes over time... all in due course.
By shifting at 8200 allows you to shift on a better part of the toque and power curve. you peak power is at 7800rpm

you springs should not float at 8200 and that is what really matters.. weakening and wear comes as apart of driving. And its also debatable as to how much the valve springs can handle

I know if a crazy ass driver from this forum, who would hold his revs (it would even hit the rev limiter) just to gain a second out of corner...
his car has over 190,000 kms and is still going strong...

[VTi_b0i]

well if thats the only thing that gets weakend by this extra RPM, if the valves and springs are changed, is higher RPM available?

[BlitZ]

Blitz - i'm not going to argue the point, however I will say, 50rpm is as far as I will go on any B16 I tune. I will not risk a customers engine for the sake of rpm bragging rights. You on the otherhand are responsible for your own motor, do whatever you like.
I still reserve the right to say "I told you so" when the shit hits the fan.

:thumbsup: . true that..

[FR33K]

take it to 9000 it will be fine !!! haha
i used to take my b18a to 7500.. redline was at 6500.. nothing ever happened lol maybe i was lucky

[[[d a n n y]]]

take it to 9000 it will be fine !!! haha
i used to take my b18a to 7500.. redline was at 6500.. nothing ever happened lol maybe i was lucky

crazy..:cool:

[del501]

Thanks guys was just wondering thats all, so best thing is shift at redline untill i upgrade the valve springs and cams, would CTR cams and valve springs do good?? or should i go aftermarket brands instead of honda?

[BrianC]

Just dont drive it in the red part of your tacho and you'll be fine

[SPEEDCORE]

This to me is a very broad question, and depends on what your ultimate goals are.....

If you looking for a very mild upgrade and will not go beyond the scope of I/H/E, and something decent to tune it all with.... then the CTR/ITR cams with corresponding springs may be ok for your needs.

I know a few on this forum will say that CTR cams are a waste of time in a otherwise stock B16A...... which is actually the opposite to what people say in the states from this "mildest" of upgrades with factory honda equipment.

Me waits for one particular person him to chime in again regarding this debate :)

[barefootbonzai]

Just dont drive it in the red part of your tacho and you'll be fine

lol, my tacho redline is at 7k i'm well pass what all the time :p

[SPEEDCORE]

you referring to me?

You talkin' to me? Very Taxi Driver'esque ;)

Yes I am. BTW I can't remember how that other thread ended up...... didn't bother going back when all the bickering started. Anyway just out of curiosity why was it you thought they where not worthwhile?

I'm very interested in hearing peoples opinions when they justify their opinions well........ :thumbsup:

[BrianC]

lol, my tacho redline is at 7k i'm well pass what all the time :p

I should have mentioned I was reffering to stock cars :thumbsup:

[barefootbonzai]

hehhe yeah. just kidding bro.

and yeah i'm interested in hearing when it's not worthwhile.

[del501]

This to me is a very broad question, and depends on what your ultimate goals are.....

If you looking for a very mild upgrade and will not go beyond the scope of I/H/E, and something decent to tune it all with.... then the CTR/ITR cams with corresponding springs may be ok for your needs.

I know a few on this forum will say that CTR cams are a waste of time in a otherwise stock B16A...... which is actually the opposite to what people say in the states from this "mildest" of upgrades with factory honda equipment.

Me waits for one particular person him to chime in again regarding this debate :)
SPEEDCORE: mmm my goals would be to give a "Stock ITR" a car length whooping :) ive heard b16a with Zorst, headers, cai, clutch + flywheel keeps side by side with ITR. would ITR cams be better choice then CTR ones?? ta for the replies guys

[SPEEDCORE]

would ITR cams be better choice then CTR ones?? ta for the replies guys

Post 98 ITR (or is it the 00-01 ITR :!: can't remember right off the top of my head) cams are identical in spec to CTR cams. In fact I believe they are the same part number.

[kayot1k]

side by side? geeeeeet farked

you think the ITR runs hopes and dreams? :wave:

[del501]

side by side? geeeeeet farked

you think the ITR runs hopes and dreams? :wave:
Thats why im here askin questions, and thanks to you i feeel alot better about ITR's, but man, my mate has ITR number plate 83AMN i havent seen any N/A honda able to beat him cept for one DC5R which had the works done to his engine. SO you rekon with all the mods i listed should be able to to down a stocko ITR yeh?

[VTi_b0i]

sorry its abit off topic, but whats the redline for Integra vti-r motor? b18c2?

[**Ghost**]

Not enough compression in a B16A.

and because at $600 + $??? for springs or whatever the going market rate is, you are not going to make more power over stock cams in a stock motor.

Hefty cost for no to little gains.

with CTR cams in a b16a with 1/h/e and VAFC tuned and also increased compression through thinner headgasket and shaved head (dont know how much, i didnt do it)... having driven the car before and after the CTR cams, i would have ot say that its not a mod that yields " little or no power gains"

[tinkerbell]

sorry its abit off topic, but whats the redline for Integra vti-r motor? b18c2?

mine seems to hit fuel cut at ~8050ish

[VTi_b0i]

:O dam lol so b16a has higher RPM? lol cause i want to be able to clock my rev gauge when i change my motor hhaha yehh i guess it is wank factor but its fun haha might have to go B18cR then hey :rolleyes: :p

[tinkerbell]

well, the B16A is better suited to higher rpm than B18C...

[SPEEDCORE]

well, the B16A is better suited to higher rpm than B18C...

:thumbsup: and the B16B even more so!

[VTi_b0i]

what does b16b redline at? and k20a for that matter, anyone know that?

[BlitZ]

:thumbsup: and the B16B even more so!
true. but u either have top end or bottom end.

[_CiVIC_]

but the bigger motors have better torque ranges :wave: don't forget to consider that...

[SPEEDCORE]

We all know that but what can you to do...... kids just want to rev the nanna out of an engine regardless if they are making power or not :rolleyes:

[barefootbonzai]

Didn't realise you're in brisbane. Maybe we can meet up with Linh and sort all this out ;)




Thats why im here askin questions, and thanks to you i feeel alot better about ITR's, but man, my mate has ITR number plate 83AMN i havent seen any N/A honda able to beat him cept for one DC5R which had the works done to his engine. SO you rekon with all the mods i listed should be able to to down a stocko ITR yeh?

[del501]

Hey wassup ur the fellar with the green civic aye, heard ur car is a beast haha :), nice work bro. Your car would rip 83AMN for shizzle hahaha :thumbsup: we wanted to give you a run a week ago when ur car was at pinelands but then we had lil prob with infrotn of nandos :rolleyes:

[del501]

PRO ECU


ur advice very helpful ta dude. if i wanted to jdm-r cams REGARDLESS i wouldnt need to post anything up. well anyway, since u talk like u know wat ur on about, give me a few tips and ur expertise with the b16a ;) What CAMS I/H/E to look out for?? would i need an ECU with all thoses mods or can i run the std ecu :confused:

[VT3C]

my JDM B16A(2) rev-cut's at just over 8,600RPM.. by OEM tacho it's at 8,600 and on RSM it was 8,612 or 8,632... either way 8200RPM rev-cut is for AUS spec with redline at 8,000 (my redline is 8200).

was bouncing my limiter during an 'encounter' with a 350Z yesterday and it was still making good power and only has intake and cat-back.

[barefootbonzai]

Hey wassup ur the fellar with the green civic aye, heard ur car is a beast haha :), nice work bro. Your car would rip 83AMN for shizzle hahaha :thumbsup: we wanted to give you a run a week ago when ur car was at pinelands but then we had lil prob with infrotn of nandos :rolleyes:

lol, can't say man, only one way to find out ;)

but as for you wanting to make your car quicker, cam's ain't really something you should be considering yet. There's a bang for buck thread for B16 civic's if you search it up. Changing your FD to ATS 4.9, hd clutch, light flywheel should get you up there with the ITR maybe even quicker in the short runs.

[del501]

oh Yeh tru aye, hey bro give me ur msn so you can guide me through couple of shit aye
??

[mrdaveo]

Hi i have a clip of me ova revin my b16a2 in my honda del sol crx. Engine is completey stock.. just got Air pod and headers..

http://media.putfile.com/B16a2-Cutoff-at-8300-rpm-


cheers :D

[todaek9]

Who said using stock cams can't gain anymore power? HAHAhaha...That is, IF you know what you are doing...Although Big cams with oversize forged piston is some people's dream, but i can say that B16a has the potential to tail gate an ITR with no internal changes.

Stock Engine can goes around 9000rpm...and NO INTERNAL CHANGES but, must change a lil things to match up with an ITR...may be cost you like 3k ish Aud incl parts and workmanship if i'm not mistaken...

[mrdaveo]

not 9000 cos the pistons rings will wear out so quickly.. even with aftermarket pistons... must have aftermarket Valve springs to get to 9000 with stock cams n shit but no point of doing that if the cams dont make power at 9000..

[VTi_b0i]

im starting to see the value of changing my VTi motor to B16a lol i thort it would be better going for a b18c2...as it has bigger displacement and a little bit more power...i thort a b16a wouldnt be all that much of an improvement over a d16y1...

[SPEEDCORE]

Stock Engine can goes around 9000rpm...and NO INTERNAL CHANGES

I strongly advise against taking an internally stock B16A to 9k...... you guys have been warned.

[VTi_b0i]

well how much work and money are involved in taking a b16a2 past say 8500rpm?

[Limbo]

Note much but depends if you wanna make power or not.
change your valve springs and after market computer will allow you to do it but will not mean that you will make power.

Generally you need new cams (depending on which ones you get) will allow you to rev up higher. Higher compression, valve train, valve springs, new ECU. Then you need it tuned so it won't blowup. Then you might need a new clutch to handle the power, new exhaust system. Then you prob got too much power and need suspension, sway bars, braces. Then you'll find your brakes and tyres can't take it and you will need more expensive tyres and upgraded pads and/or rotors and maybe a new caliper set.

Depends on how much you wanna spend. But about 2-3k you will be able to rev higher but i wouldn't guarantee any major performance increase.

Also the higher you rev the shorter the engine's life is.

High revs kill engines. That's why race cars get rebuilt every race or so.

[mrdaveo]

im starting to see the value of changing my VTi motor to B16a lol i thort it would be better going for a b18c2...as it has bigger displacement and a little bit more power...i thort a b16a wouldnt be all that much of an improvement over a d16y1...

If u need a b16a2 engine.. im selling mine atm.. for $350.... just the block n head n manilfold and 4-2-1 huccriane extractors. let me know if interested.

cheers

[mrdaveo]

to make b16a2 rev to 8500.. stock block... type R valve springs for $250. civic type R cams for $850... mmm should get vtec controller or piggy back to change the rev limiter.. install em and and ur enigne will rev to 8500 with no problems :)

[VT3C]

im starting to see the value of changing my VTi motor to B16a lol i thort it would be better going for a b18c2...as it has bigger displacement and a little bit more power...i thort a b16a wouldnt be all that much of an improvement over a d16y1...

have never been beaten by a (VTiR) B18C since my B16A swap.. only the Type R B18C chops my B16.. B18C (VTiR) if you want to boost, otherwise B16 IMO.

[todaek9]

At the end of the day, it all depends on the Driver itself...

I don't think there is a necessary to change any internal if you want to rev to 9000rpm still. Just make sure the oil press is right.

But does anyone agree on around 3-4k Aud of bits into a B16a without any internal Changes can beat an ITR ???...i'm just curious to know thats all... :)

[mrdaveo]

Well i know upgrading the cams into a Civic type R cams and type R valve springs and vtec controller will make more power than the civic type R engine

[todaek9]

Is this EMPTY talking or real stuff? Well, to be hornest with you, you are totally wrong...and also, not in a million years....




Well i know upgrading the cams into a Civic type R cams and type R valve springs and vtec controller will make more power than the civic type R engine

[del501]

Well i know upgrading the cams into a Civic type R cams and type R valve springs and vtec controller will make more power than the civic type R engine
mmmmmm you sure dude??

[mrdaveo]

Formaz in Perth told me they just fully built a b16a2 engine with stock parts but ugrade the head using Civic type R cams n type R valve springs (im sure they upgraded the ECU too...n it made more power than the b16b engine... i didnt believe it until the staff showed me a dyno sheet comparing each engine.. .. the b16a had a higher power reading than the civic type R engine.

I'll try see if i can get a copy of the dyno sheets n post em on here

[todaek9]

Dyno sheet??? haha...
Dyno Sheet doesn't mean anything at all...
If not, find someone with a CTR and race with that car you've mention, and i'll see which side you put your money on...

[Limbo]

Friend made low 14s in his ek4, which is quicker than a type R,
Full exhaust, replacement K&N filter, ECU, ITR cams, Semi slicks, Cam gears, HKS suspension.(can't rem the other mods)
Otherwise stock engine. Pity he sold it and got a type R.
Someone on these forums owns the EK4 now though. It got more work later on but he said he never got a chance to run it again.

[mrdaveo]

i said makes more power than a civic type R... not ova take a civic type R cos they have a close ratio gear box with LSD n it will always win the drags!

[Limbo]

Also from what i heard unless you get ECU and cam gears the ITR/CTR Cams and valve springs are gonna make you loose power rather than gain. Also the Vtec controller ain't gonna control the fuel map and timing maps which will allow youto make more power.

If it was that easy everyone would be doing it straight away and not buy a Type R.
CTR Cams ($800), Spring ($300), Vtec Controller ($400) that's $1,500. I'm sure everyone would spend that to make their car quicker than a type R cos that would cost around $8-12K (from a b16a model) to a Type R model

[Limbo]

making more power on a dyno doesn't mean much, take it to the 1/4 mile track and it will show you what your car can do.

P.S closer ratios do not always mean quicker 1/4 mile times, See the Type R Vid by Best motoring where they run the earlier model type R(4.4 ratio) & later model Type R (4.7) they were equal at the end.

[SPEEDCORE]

not ova take a civic type R cos they have a close ratio gear box

FYI.... the ratios are the same between EK4 box and CTR

[BlitZ]

Friend made low 14s in his ek4, which is quicker than a type R,
Full exhaust, replacement K&N filter, ECU, ITR cams, Semi slicks, Cam gears, HKS suspension.(can't rem the other mods)
Otherwise stock engine. Pity he sold it and got a type R.
Someone on these forums owns the EK4 now though. It got more work later on but he said he never got a chance to run it again.
yeap and LSD gbox


but remember.. luzinit got 14.9 stock with just a cat back on street tyres (EK4)

[todaek9]

Is it???...Are you 100% sure?? hmm...





P.S closer ratios do not always mean quicker 1/4 mile times, See the Type R Vid by Best motoring where they run the earlier model type R(4.4 ratio) & later model Type R (4.7) they were equal at the end.

[del501]

Is it???...Are you 100% sure?? hmm...
100% sure dead even at the end!!

[todaek9]

Oh...on the Video??

How bout seeing it for real???

[del501]

yeh its on video HONDA best motoring international and seeing it for the real, dude there both jap spec so dont think no one has seen it for real over aussie here :P

[todaek9]

hmm...is it..
i've drag one with 4.785 vs a 4.4...and the one with 4.4 loses...hmm...
and i also driven one with Spoon cross mission and Kaaz cross vs a 4.4 and the 4.785...still those with better gear ratio wins..hmm...

so your conclusion is that those which done up gearbox also will end up the same???

i'm abit confuse now..

[locote]

Hehehe funny thread lol.
Stumbled upon this doin a search as im thinking of putting B16B cams in my B18c (auto front cut).
Looks like the best bang for buck mod for a boosted B18c with gay N/A cams lol.

[locote]

have never been beaten by a (VTiR) B18C since my B16A swap.. only the Type R B18C chops my B16.. B18C (VTiR) if you want to boost, otherwise B16 IMO.

What is your best 1/4 mile time yet????
I ran a 14.2 with my N/A b18c swap just a catbakc exhaust

[dupac->]

but remember.. luzinit got 14.9 stock with just a cat back on street tyres (EK4)

abit off topic!
but it seems ek4's been crackin the 15's with not much done to them.. tony managed a 14.9 pretty much stock and not as much abuse to the car..

zico also managed to crack 14.7 and afew runs after still managed to stick in the 14's.. with abit more abuse tho! but stock car just with intake! haha..

pretty damn quick for stock cars id say !

so i wouldnt think much work would be needed to get low 14's like Limbo's mate's EK4 ----> I/H/E + good tyres + sussy + good driver??

dunno how hard it is to shave 0.5 secs of 1/4 mile runs...?


really depends how hard u wanna drive ur car down the 1/4..? :thumbsup:

[locote]

as hard as the car will take:)
ALWAYS

[Newcivic]

If you're going to through all that trouble of putting CTR cams, valves, shaving blocks and all this sorted thing
Just save your time and money .. WAIT and find a b16b motor!!

[BlitZ]

If you're going to through all that trouble of putting CTR cams, valves, shaving blocks and all this sorted thing
Just save your time and money .. WAIT and find a b16b motor!!

better yet get a b18c5/7 :thumbsup:
no replacement for displacement

[BlitZ]

abit off topic!
but it seems ek4's been crackin the 15's with not much done to them.. tony managed a 14.9 pretty much stock and not as much abuse to the car..
...
so i wouldnt think much work would be needed to get low 14's like Limbo's mate's EK4 ----> I/H/E + good tyres + sussy + good driver??

:thumbsup:

getting mid low 14's are possible but u might need the above and atleast shred some weight and most proabably A/C..

[zco]

shed the weight thats easy to remove, and easy to install later. to me, no point removing aircon and power steering unless im pllanning to leave it off FOR GOOD

it is possible to hit the 14's in a b16a EK. i did it. why cant anyone else ?
my VERY FIRST 3 runs down the 1/4.. i got 15+
my next 3 runs down the 1/4 all below 15. - 14.9/ 14.7 - then went back 2 weeks later (only had 1 run). same setup. 14.8

here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52395

to answer the intial question.. 8200rpm is ppossible. isnt that where fuel cut off for b16a is ? mine was around there

[Setanta]

Step 1: Buy aftermarket rev-limiter cut-out.
Step 2: Rev stock B16A to 8500-13000
Step 3: Contact insurance company, have them laugh at you
Step 4: Head to wreckers for a replacement motor.

[AsH_]

takin my b16 to the end of the tacho by accident... fark it was loud...