JDM ITR header vs Aussie spec header - For the dc2r owners

[ginganggooly]

Thought it'd be interesting to see how running a stock aussie dc2r header compares to the jdm header. Bearing in mind the tune was done for the jdm header.

My car went from peaking at 115kw to a peak of 91kw. The fuel curve is exactly the same shape, but running about 1.5 points richer the whole way. We didn't bother with tuning, as i'll be changing to another DynoDave header shortly, but Dave speculated a possible 10-15kw gain with tuning. Which would still place us about 10kw LESS than what the JDM header made tuned.

And here i was thinking that the JDM header wasn't really that good an upgrade from the Aussie header.
So, in summary - JDM header :thumbsup: Aussie header :thumbdwn:

[bennjamin]

in real examples im suire most people here with ITR's that have upgraded to the "JDM" header - are still stock ECU's. Do we have a comparison on a stock engine at all ?

[BiGANG]

in real examples im suire most people here with ITR's that have upgraded to the "JDM" header - are still stock ECU's. Do we have a comparison on a stock engine at all ?

i wouldnt mind knowing what the difference was as well. I did the upgrade. Next dyno day that is held at the place where i got my car dynoed b4 i might chuck it just out of curiosity.

ALSO...

with the JDM header, was the curve above the stock one all over the rev range or just in the top end. Could you post up the graphs just so we can see the diff in the midrange? Im asking because I just did this mod and the power I noticed was above around the 5000rpm as according to the ass dyno. I was more curious to see if the jdm header made any power in the midrange as compared to the stocker.

[ginganggooly]

in real examples im suire most people here with ITR's that have upgraded to the "JDM" header - are still stock ECU's. Do we have a comparison on a stock engine at all ?

from what i've seen of cars with bolt ons and no ECU, the gain from a header is marginal at best, be it toda, smsp, jdm 4-1 and so on. the gains need to be tuned into the car.

[spardikis]

from what i've seen of cars with bolt ons and no ECU, the gain from a header is marginal at best, be it toda, smsp, jdm 4-1 and so on. the gains need to be tuned into the car.

I agree, u will get some gains with bolt ons but to get maximum and the full potential you need to have it fully tuned! Remember if one part or modification to your dream ride is lacking then the whole lot will suffer loads!

[VT3C]

anyone have their shitty AUS-spec ITR header to sell ?? am thinking it be marginally better than cast-iron crap that sits on my B16 now ;(

[locote]

might be selling a mugen copie 1, still desiding

[pillow]

anyone have their shitty AUS-spec ITR header to sell ?? am thinking it be marginally better than cast-iron crap that sits on my B16 now ;(

Unless you pick em up for next to nothing, don't bother, save your money towards something good:)

[integral90]

i got some audm ones for the da9, cause they are 4-2-1 and 4-1's will hit the cross member.

[locote]

pillow is i pick a AU ITR mani for 100 and it was good for that price, i sold it and got my money bak.
When i upgraded to the one i got now felt a big difference specialy top end.

[Shraka]

My car went from peaking at 115kw to a peak of 91kw.
That's in a type R? :confused: That's odd. My DC2 VTiR makes 96.6kw at the fronts. Now granted not all dynos are created equal... but I woulda thought a Type R, even on a dyno that reads low would still get above 100kw. :confused:

[wynode]

It says dc2 vti-r in his profile :)

[ginganggooly]

That's in a type R? :confused: That's odd. My DC2 VTiR makes 96.6kw at the fronts. Now granted not all dynos are created equal... but I woulda thought a Type R, even on a dyno that reads low would still get above 100kw. :confused:
it's a vti-r...
I've seen plenty of type-r's pull below 100kw ;)

[Shraka]

Oh right, yeah. Sorry, got confused 'cuz you where sayind DC2R headers.

So DC2R extractors for my VTiR are the way to go huh? :)

[ginganggooly]

the jdm header is actually pretty decent... i thought they were crap all this time- mainly because i only ever ran them as a bolt on with the stock ECU.

[Shraka]

Weren't you saying that with standard tune, the VTiR makes more power?

So you need an ECU/piggyback to get the best outta the headers huh?

[ginganggooly]

no, i never ran on a dyno with a vti-r header... I'm comparing the AuDM ITR header to the JDM header. When both headers were run on a map that was optimised for the JDM header, the AuDM header made roughly 25kw less power- BUT, there was probably room for a 10-15kw improvement if the map was optimised for it.
The air fuel curve dropped by about 1.5-2 points from 4krpm to cutout when the only change to the motor was the addition of a stock AuDM ITR header... i think it says something about the flow difference between the two headers.

[locote]

as its been said many times before tuning is the key.
its the only way to get max power out of all your bolt ons.

[dc-r]

so, all you guys trting to say is when we change header or exhaust, better to change aftermarket ECU as well???

[VT3C]

well your OEM ECU is designed to run a stock motor within certain parameters, however once you alter the characteristics of a motor by changine intake or exhaust it will effect the tuning of the motor.

saying that you need an ECU to get gains from a header is not tru but not a lie either. The OEM ECU is surprisingly adaptive, BUT if you were to re-tune with an aftermarket ECU you would make MORE power.

one must not be confused here in this thread though because I have seen ECU's added to bone-stock Hondas andmake buckets of power just through a tune - but one would have to ask himself. has the reliability and longevity of the motor been compromised ?

hrm.

[dc-r]

well your OEM ECU is designed to run a stock motor within certain parameters, however once you alter the characteristics of a motor by changine intake or exhaust it will effect the tuning of the motor.

saying that you need an ECU to get gains from a header is not tru but not a lie either. The OEM ECU is surprisingly adaptive, BUT if you were to re-tune with an aftermarket ECU you would make MORE power.

one must not be confused here in this thread though because I have seen ECU's added to bone-stock Hondas andmake buckets of power just through a tune - but one would have to ask himself. has the reliability and longevity of the motor been compromised ?

hrm.

thanks for info. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :)

[ginganggooly]

my understanding of the situation regarding oem tunes, is that they program it with the lowest common denominator in mind- lousy fuel, hot weather, poorly maintained and a driver that likes to load the motor up with a combo of the three.

i've had my car running with the hondata for the last two years, (90k km) and it's never missed a beat.
Longevity shouldn't be an issue provided the tuner knows his shit, and the owner looks after the car.

[jdm16]

I have a Mugen copy and it has that tiny sound too it @ 3000rpm. Not the best sound around.. anyone know how to get rid of ths - without changing the header? Just dont like the tacky-ness.

[BlitZ]

with all the above said

does anyone know if the Jap ITR ecu run the same map as the Aus ITR?

[AH_HUH]

im pretty sure it can

[Limbo]

ging i got your JDM 4-1s and i had a power increase also with stock ecu

JDM alway craps over ADM, i think the japs just keep all their good stuff for themselves

[misterpoh]

anyone got a picture of the AUDM ITR header? VTiR header? and the JDM ITR Header?

[bennjamin]

VTiR is cast 4-2 section , while the ITR is metal piping for the 4-2 section. Both are mild steel 2-1 section correct ?

[VT3C]

nah man the 2-1 section on all b-series hondas is low-grade stainless.

The AUS 4-2 section you will note is double-walled stainless so that even though the design of the header looks really nice and the outter diameter is not too bad, the inner diameter aint so flash.. plus there's weird baffles in there at the 2-1 join also..

[90LAN]

Im Running Jdm 4-1 On A B16a With Good Gains In Top End. The Engine Revs Out Smoother And Faster Once Vtec Hits, With Out Losing Much Bottem End
But The Other Power Getter Is The Jdm Cat Which Is 2.5' So Thats The Big Difference! This Is What You Need To Get The Gases Flowing
All You Have To Do Is Compare The Two And Jdm Shits All Over It

[todaek9]

just get an aftermarket stuff...Toda or mugen...

[ginganggooly]

if you want aftermarket, i'd say go for a whitfield racing or smsp header...

[locote]

theres not much info on these whitfield or smsp.

[ginganggooly]

what info are you after?

[luzinit]

how much would they cost landed, and who to contact to get them into australia? :P

[todaek9]

if you pay peanut, you'll get monkey...

[bennjamin]

Here is a summary of a AUDM ITR header.

Shown below is my stock 2-1 section of my Si (d16a8) header compared to the stock 2-1 AUDM header section

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/bennjamin/header.jpg

As u can see , they are exactly the same collector size. Also , same inlet / port entires and overall length too. Cost cutting are we , Honda ?

[marcus]

hey if i gt a 4-1 jdm header??wat size cat and piping for the cat back and etc...shld i use??all the exhaust shops keep pushing 2.25 but its been reccommend by some that 2.5 be better

[luzinit]

that was really helpful thanks! :thumbsup:

if you pay peanut, you'll get monkey...

[ginganggooly]

if you pay peanut, you'll get monkey...

Ah, another pearl of wisdom. Many thanks, sunshine.

[barefootbonzai]

lol, i want a monkey.

[DynoDave]

if you pay peanut, you'll get monkey...
I find it hard to understand why you would even make such a stupid comment,you of all people have spent more than most on a setup that NEVER made power and what brand of products where you using,if my old memory serves me correctly it was all top shelf Jap stuff.There are some very good products around these days that cost a 1/3rd of the price of Jap products and will match or in some cases make more power than the more expensive products.If you want to build a setup that makes power build a combination that does it with well reseached and used parts and not just out of jap catalog.
Regards Dyno Dave
Regards Dyno Dave

[todaek9]

Yes dave, i did use all the Jap parts that was on the catalogue, but one thing that screwed up the car nicely is the poor quality of workmanship that some tuners offered in Australia. I am not saying you, because i don't know how well you can build a Vtec, but i am sure of one thing, there is alot of SELF-CLAIM good tuners where they said everything can be done, but at the end of the day, i don't see any result.

I have to go to Motec and get my whole engine Rebuild, and guess what they told me, i've been rip off by those Self-Claimed Pro Tuners. Those parts that i have can give me so much power, yet they screw me up nicely. Saying this and that, and there is no result. But now i've learnt my lesson very well in Mods of a Vtec.

Dave, all i can say is that, its not the parts that i've ordered that screwed me, is just the workmanship. POOR FREAKING QUALITY. Basically i've been pushed around.

i know what you are saying by do my research, i did, on parts and consultation with TODA Jap before i even go in to it, but guess Sxxt tuner here just think they know everything. If the car was in my country, it will definately hit the high 12 sec mark.

But yea, people who want to mod Vtec, Think again. There are so many Self Claimed PRO TUNERS. They are just full of SXXT.


I find it hard to understand why you would even make such a stupid comment,you of all people have spent more than most on a setup that NEVER made power and what brand of products where you using,if my old memory serves me correctly it was all top shelf Jap stuff.There are some very good products around these days that cost a 1/3rd of the price of Jap products and will match or in some cases make more power than the more expensive products.If you want to build a setup that makes power build a combination that does it with well reseached and used parts and not just out of jap catalog.
Regards Dyno Dave
Regards Dyno Dave

[marcus]

well said todaek...for example car repairs..i been to many workshops but they still cant solve the whinning sound around my intake manifold...all they do is juz change the timing belt and dare charge me 200 for labour and parts without solving the prob

[bennjamin]

this has ventured well off topic and into oblivion. todaek9 , fair enough comments but please keep it to another thread or even to pm.
The best thing to do is research around yourself and look at what prices and tuning professionals exist in the country of youtr residence.

ITs official. ITR AUDM header is crap compared to ITR 98+ spec JDM header.

Closed