VTi-R vs Type S

[Mattski_VTIR]

Hay Guys,
First off great forum, has been very useful in my several years off owning Honda's. Secondly I have just purchased a brand new Type S and must say I'm extremely happy with the car, and its a great upgrade from my VTI-R Civic Coupe. Now to the question, How will my car perform against a VTI-R Integra with I/H/E, and a standard DC2R?? Also, the car only has 1500km on the clock.. will it need more time before the engine will perform to its full potential??
Thanks in advance,

[Malenic1981]

I think it will perform ok, there was articile in one of the mages about all the integras, DC2 type R, DC5 Type R and Type S, the winner was DC2 type R but there were all close, it looks like DC2R is bit better performer so it was voted the best "R" ever.

[Felix]

if your talking about raceing in a straight line (drag strip) you will probably just have it over the vtir, but the dc2r will have it over you...

Really comes down to the drivers though!

[aaronng]

Once you hit 10,000km or so, the engine will be making more power than when new.

[Speeder]

Congrats on your purchase, I have to admit the Type S is a excellent car. wait till she opens up a bit.

[AF1]

Yeh the DC2R was built for street racing even tho honda wont say it but many will agree. DC5R was toned down a little bit but still good and id be happy to own either one.
Honda should have kept the agressive look on the DC5R's when it built the Type S.

10,000kms? Are you serious?

[aaronng]

Yes, high-cam engines that make peak power at high revs will make significantly more power after your engine is run in more. The less resistance in your engine, the easier to spin at high RPMs and more power is made. For normal engines that rely on brute torque, then the gains are less when run in because you don't as much extra torque as the engine is run in and the RPM at which power is made is low, so the smoother spinning engine is not taken advantage of.

[Mattski_VTIR]

Yes, high-cam engines that make peak power at high revs will make significantly more power after your engine is run in more. The less resistance in your engine, the easier to spin at high RPMs and more power is made. For normal engines that rely on brute torque, then the gains are less when run in because you don't as much extra torque as the engine is run in and the RPM at which power is made is low, so the smoother spinning engine is not taken advantage of.

Thanks Mate,
I was always under that impression and just needed a little reassurance.
Although its not a Type R, the car still has that soul that seperates it from the crowd... A completley enjoyable driving experience... after all it is a Honda. Thanks for all your comments guys, much appreciated.

[A-man]

thats awsome i didnt kno that wit them engines that u get more power and it makes sense so it cant b bs

[aaronng]

It's more like your engine is tight when new because of the clearances. Not sure about Honda, but BMW dynos their engines at the factory after assembly so they make minimum of the stated power. Once the engine is run in, they make more power! That's why BMW engines feel so powerful. When brand new they are already making the power that they claim (opposite of toyota).

[A-man]

lol i must have 300kw LMAO

my car has done 230 thousand kms lol

[Shraka]

I'm not sure if Honda engines are run in or not, but you probably shouldn't take them above 4000rpm untill you've done 500-1000kms. Then I wouldn't go above 5000 untill you've done 2000kms. I'd also change the oil regularly. I know that after a rebuild, it's allways a good idea to take it easy, otherwise you can easily damage the engine, due to everything being too tight. It needs to wear softly for a bit before it'll rev out nicely.

And yes, an engine wont make it's max power untill it's run in.

[aaronng]

I'm not sure if Honda engines are run in or not, but you probably shouldn't take them above 4000rpm untill you've done 500-1000kms. Then I wouldn't go above 5000 untill you've done 2000kms. I'd also change the oil regularly. I know that after a rebuild, it's allways a good idea to take it easy, otherwise you can easily damage the engine, due to everything being too tight. It needs to wear softly for a bit before it'll rev out nicely.

And yes, an engine wont make it's max power untill it's run in.
But... if you are too gentle in the first 100km, then your piston rings won't seal and you end up consuming oil and have a loss in power. I do both. I give load to seal the rings in the first 100km. After that drive without any racing or full throttle until 1000km.

[Shraka]

But... if you are too gentle in the first 100km, then your piston rings won't seal and you end up consuming oil and have a loss in power. I do both. I give load to seal the rings in the first 100km. After that drive without any racing or full throttle until 1000km.
There are lots of conflicting reports. Some people say to rev the crap outta it. However, I've never heard that from someone who actualy rebuilds engines. I was talking to a guy who does performance engines, and he sais don't load it up above 3000rpm - ie, you can rev it gently (not foot to the floor) but do it with the clutch in. Don't drive above 3000rpm. Don't let the car idle for too long either while it wears in. Although with the higher redline of a Honda, perhaps it'd be okay to take it to 4000?

Here's something I've found:


Dont let it idle too long at any time, just rev it gently between 1000 and 2500 if you have to sit at the lights.. no stabbing, just gentle.... you've spent a lot of money on it...Max revs of about 5000...

100Klm, Drop the oil & filter (inspect again)

more driving, ok, 6000RPM Redline this time...

500Klm drop the oil and Filter.....

In my books its now "run in" - change oil and filter every 5000Klm (cheap insurance for a Turbo car!)

A neat little trick in my book is to get a powerful, but small magnet and stick it to the side of the oil filter.... catches any stray metal filings and makes sure they stay in the filter !!

I used this system on my 998 and its done over 9000 Miles now and still running strong, ZERO oil consumption and I had the head off a few weeks ago and ZERO bore wear..... doing something right.....

I also found this, which states you should drive it hard at first:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

So now I'm confused and don't know. :(

[aaronng]

As I said, there are 2 parts that need running in. The piston rings and every other mechanical part that rubs with another piece. For the piston rings, you need to give it some load so that it seats well and seals. You don't have to continuously give it load. Just for a short duration. In fact, if you try to run in the piston rings after 100km, it will not be as effective as the rings are already run in (either for better or for worse).

The mechanical parts on the other hand require some gentle break in. If your cylinder bores are roughly honed, then you must take it very gently like how the engine rebuilders advise. Modern engines from the factory on the other hand come with very fine honing marks. So they can rev high for short durations when new without any problems.

It's a fine balance. I do both. Wear the rings in, and then run the engine gently.

[Speeder]

All car engines of this era *should* be run in from factory via bench testing? Not sure if that would be the same though.

[Shraka]

Hrm. Yeah, perhaps the guys I've been talking to who say you should run it in easy are assume the rings have already been beded in from factory? So in that case, on a new car, driving sedately for the first 1000 - 2000kms should be the go, yeah?