The truth about our 'type-r' - Exposed!

[cheebye]

Taken from this week's Go-Auto

----------------------------------------------

HONDA Australia will abandon the prestigious Type R ultra-sports branding later this year when it updates the Integra sports coupe range. And despite repeated attempts over the past few years to expand its Type R model line-up, it does not plan any association with that branding in the future.

The end of Type R publicly signals a fundamental change in Honda Australia’s marketing attitude. While in the past it saw Type R as a way to inject “sizzle”, it is now heading along a sports luxury path.

“There is no more Type R, that chapter in Honda Australia’s history is closed,” Honda Australia director Lindsay Smalley told GoAuto exclusively.

“The direction of Honda is moving more towards sophisticated sports, away from that raw, more confronting type of sports car.”

Honda’s move to kill off Integra Type R comes after several years of controversy over the legitimacy of the current model.

Ironically, it will be replaced by a model called the Integra Type S, a designation critics argued the car should have had in the first place.

The Integra Type R first appeared in Australia as a hardcore hard-revving 1.8-litre between October 1999 and July 2001. But when the new generation came along it was widely criticised for not matching up to the technical specifications of the Japanese Integra Type R.

That car has 162kW, 17-inch wheels, 215/45s rubber and four-piston calliper Brembo brakes. The Australian model has 147kW, 16-inch wheels, 205/55 rubber and misses out on the Brembos.

The detuning of the engine was blamed on limited availability of 98 octane fuel in Australia, while cost and durability issues ruled out the more aggressive wheel, tyre and brake package.

Nevertheless, the car still rose in price by $4000 and an extra $2000 was charged for air-conditioning, a curious decision considering the base model $39,950 Integra had standard climate control.

The actual specification of the Australian Type R was closer to the US Acura RSX Type S when it was launched, hence the irony of the name change.

But the car that will appear in the last quarter of 2004 will more closely resemble a 200-off ‘Special Edition’ Integra sold in 2002 that featured extras like leather seats and door panels, side airbags (mounted in the front seat backs), electric sunroof, leather-clad steering wheel, full body kit, front foglights, driver and passenger map lights and appropriate badging.

A body kit comprised front and rear underbody spoilers, side sills and a more discreet spoiler than Type R.

That ‘Special Edition’ model later prompted Honda to introduce the Integra Luxury as a fulltime member of the range.

But the forthcoming Type S is expected to have a power level close to the current Type R, rather than drop back to the standard and Luxury Integra’s 118kW version.

Honda Australia had tried to add the UK-built Civic Type R three-door to its range but that was killed off by exchange rates and the ongoing concern over fuel quality.

The change in emphasis may act as a sales spur for Integra. In 2003 there were 922 sold here, compared to 1342 the year before. After three months of 2004, 168 sales have been logged, compared to 304 in the same period of 2003.

Honda will launch sports-oriented peoplemover, the third generation Odyssey, midyear.

[A'PEXi]

when is the official killing ceremony? its stupid they are taking the type r away - wow its detuned.... better than a type s at least :P..... wish i could afford one before they become extinct :P

[juve]

i think thats good news for type r owners, i believe it'd would help to keep their resale value higher as type r be the one for raw performance. and if you cant get them new suddenly young 2nd hand ones will keep their value for longer. does every1 agree with that theory?

[cheebye]

i think thats good news for type r owners, i believe it'd would help to keep their resale value higher as type r be the one for raw performance. and if you cant get them new suddenly young 2nd hand ones will keep their value for longer. does every1 agree with that theory?

agree totally.. just wish we had the original jdm spec type-r tho. :x :x

[Javed]

From reading that it seems they will still keep the type r, just brand it differently due to the controversy arising from not meeting the japanese R's standards. Well thats what i get from it anyways, still AUSDM R material, jus diff name.

[bigteethygrin]

So basically it'll be the same car except you'll have to buy the badge at Parklea markets instead of the showroom?

[McChook]

Man, I remember when the truth was posted years ago - before we even got the first DC5s. Still stupid, but I thought everyone knew anyway

[crx2gen]

Odyssey Type-R? :D

[incoming]

Odyssey Type-R? :D
lol
go the OTR's!

[fueltank]

So basically it'll be the same car except you'll have to buy the badge at Parklea markets instead of the showroom?

http://test.nice.com.au/ed/smilies/lol.gif

[**Ghost**]

hey from that article... u guys reckon its possible that we get CTR since our exchange rate is better? Honda Australia is becoming worse and worse hae u noticed? much more conservative, tryin to be SAAB/VOLVO...

ahhaha it seems the last hope for our sons is MItsubishi, at least they are bringing out a MIvec lancer and colt, have an evo, and Toyota has MR2 and Celica and a corrolla sportivo... wtf does HOnda have NOW? seriously... jazzz VTIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Civic VI...

cuold it be we are the last generation of AUssie Honda enthusiasts?!??!

:(

[Javed]

Hahahah you hold your shift button down too long!:P

[**Ghost**]

:D

[[zeth]]

wtf does HOnda have NOW? seriously... jazzz VTIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Civic VI...


Can't forget the NSX ;) That car am seXeh besides the price tag :?

Pity they discontinued the type R.. but then again for those who owns one... whoa.. driving a limited production car is b00tiful :D

[soul4real]

The NSX ? How come there aren't many of them around, is it because it's hard to get or do people look elsewhere in that price bracket ?

It's a pity the Type R name is being discontinued.

[Jus-10]

Honda Australia are a bunch of soft-cocks IMO.

Whilst it seems Honda Japan has started to find its feet and are turning out some hot looking cars (Accord Euro, Odyssey, JDM ITR, etc), it's as if Honda Oz are trying to create their own image for what is a global car manufacturer.

I loved their comment about how "durability issues" ruled out the 17s and Brembos....ummm hello, who did they think would be buying the Type R teg huh...old grannies who couldn't give a f*ck?!

I guess with an aging population they are trying to appeal to the masses rather than staying true to their motorsport heritage....and we are the ones that miss out!

[Hondavirgin]

*ghost*, its not the USD exchange rate that knocks out the CTR, its the Sterling (UK) exchange rate, which hasn't budged unfortunately, coz its the only model of the new civic's that looks good.

its only a rebadging anyways, you'll buy the same car with a Type S badge instead.

[A'PEXi]

we arn't keeping the type r, they are removing it and replacing it with a type s... produces 118kw it says... how is that a detuned version of the type r?? :P doesnt have the sporty interior either.

[Hondavirgin]

Type S is supposed to have close the same power as our current Type R, i doubt they'd go to the expense of detuning the engine for just our market, so i doubt it'll change at all from the amount atm.

The other integra models have the 118kw.

[pornstar]

Its the whole street racing scene in the US. Honda are trying to keep away from that image that older people are starting to get about hondas.

It wants to go back to the luxury/prestigous jap car brand that it used to have in aus

[Javed]

Its ****ing stupid. It is not how Takeo Fukui would want it, or I hope not. It is genuinely frustrating how lacking AUSDM honda's are in ocmparison with the Japanese counterparts, and the renaming of the type r looks like a ploy to remove the whole racebred nature that the car deserves. Smart move, me thinks not.

[A'PEXi]

power level "close" to the type r... heres the keyword, the aus type r is already de-tuned, a power level "close" to it is going to be what? 130kw??... even so, i would much rather they kept the type r as is.....

[Civic Type R]

Honda Australia had tried to add the UK-built Civic Type R three-door to its range but that was killed off by exchange rates and the ongoing concern over fuel quality.

:x :x :evil: :( :? :x :evil: :cry: :roll: :!:

[Hondavirgin]

why would Honda bother building an even more detuned engine for the tiny little australian market, costs would outweight the benefits.

I think they'll keep the current engine as they can build them for the us market as well as here, much more cost efficient.

[Civic Type R]

Honda Australia are a bunch of soft-cocks IMO.!
umm couldnt agree with you anymore !
ive tried for years dealing with them only to be ignorred and pushed away.

[A'PEXi]

anyone want to buy me a type r before they come extinct :D hehehe

[skoota]

Ok so if AUS Honda are moving towards a more luxury sports car - why did they kill off the Preludes? They were luxury sports car IMO. So now they're like making Integras like that. That really sucks bad. I mean, really, Honda is going down the fricken toilet. The new Civics - look shizen. They have Odysees, CRV's, MDX's etc now... OMFG - most Hondas are now minivans and people movers!!! And has anyone noticed that all Honda's now have increased their centre of gravity - ie) the roof is much higher and the car sits higher off the ground? I dunno, could be wrong but it appears that way to me.

And about the NSX - who is going to pay that much for a Honda? If you were to pay that much, I would get a Merc, BMS, Porsch etc... Ridiculous price for that car. The only sports car Honda has now is the s2000. Unless... if they decide to release that CRX they are thinking about... :D

[CJL]

Well im happy i got my type r before they become extinct.... alot of ppl dont realise what they are missing out on :D

[[ slayer ]]

well i agree with people saying honda aus is becoming soft and killing the performance bred cars... its a sad time for honda fans

honda should have stuck with the tegs, ludes, early civics, and the crx's in my opinion, all that is left is the s2000

sad, sad day :(

[NeuroX]

on the flip side, if aus honda is killing off the type-r. . . doesnt that mean more imported jdm type r??

so its not all that bad rite?? :?

[bigteethygrin]

nah new import laws i think will prevent that.. but you could always bring a wrecked one in and strip the parts for your audm model.

I reckon they shoulda discarded the audm type r and just brought the jdm version in as is.. they woulda saved heaps by not having to build that not quite type r they are selling now and sold more as the jdm model is so much better.

[[ slayer ]]

yeh, i agree, the laws will prevent u importing the jdm... will have to settle for engine conversions and the like from imported wrecks

but this will prolly lead to the parts being even more expensive now as loval versions wont be as available i should imagine

[olda]

Well im happy i got my type r before they become extinct.... alot of ppl dont realise what they are missing out on :D

There was only one real TYPE R INTEGRA ever sold in OZ. > DC2R.
The currently sold DC5 Integra is actually only a TYPE S RSX with the TYPE R stickers- no more, no less! :P

[00dc2]

Even our dc2r isn't a true typeR!

lost: 6kw, really light wheels (15.6lbs Vs 12.3lbs)(thereabouts)
gained: more weight. I have not weighed my car yet, but i suspect its a good 40kg heavier than the 1087kg they weigh in Japan!

Honda keep trying to compete in price with other brands who make cars that are not as good!!!. And to do it they are cutting corners (in AU). They need to wake up and realise that people buy Honda's (in AU) because they are damn great cars (performance, looks, RELIABILITY, quality). Even though they are more expensive than many other cars out there.
We love our Honda's and we don't give a shit if they are a little more expensive than local cars or other Jap cars.

Marketing guys think the extra 5k the DC5R would have cost if it had come with Brembo's, 17in wheels and 162kW would have had a major impact on sales. The goodies would have had more of an impact than the 5k! surely?

Who would buy a 2003 WRX with 168kW and 1390kg when a 162kW 1160kg DC5R costs only about 5k more? Its doing my head in!

Honda, stop wasting money by having multiple production lines for the same car (JDM, USDM, AUDM) and give us the real typeR's and feed the savings back in reduced prices!

I don't want to hear anything about fuel octane. NSX's are not detuned in AU!

:x

[mpd076-chuck]

Hey 00dc2 I agree about the DC5R, but the aussie DC2R wheels weigh 12.9 lbs and our cars weigh 1087kg's. In fact, our 15" wheels are lighter than their 16" wheels. We lost the 6kw through a restrictive header and slightly different ECU tuning. The AUDM DC2R is very, very close to JDM model.

I think we have to face the fact that Honda want to be more of Mercedes Benz style Luxury Sport company in Australia... which I hate.

[Rexxy]

also most dc2r's in OZ end up with Aircon due to our weather compared to japan, and that seriously heavy, even if it its a specially made unit for the typeR (is smaller than most other aircons in cars, to keep it lite).......

This whole thing just comes down to $$$$ for Honda, in the end it's a business "How to we stay competitive in the next 5 years, keep profit margins up etc etc"...... If they didnt cut the Prelude, typeR etc etc, but kept bringing in NEW models, such as the Jazz etc etc, they would have had too many models on the market, which is not smart......

[VTEC16]

Its still pretty poor to cut one of their cult enthusiast cars. Im suprised honda japan is going to let this happen!

[Javed]

Yep, once again business overrides passion :(

[Tofu]

the up coming Type S that replaces the Ausralian Type R will still have the same engine producing 147kw (@ flywheel)

Type R = Type S
recaro seats = leather seats with built-in side air bags
momo steering wheel = leather steering wheel (just like luxury integra's get)
Type R bodykit = full OEM bodykit (what you can buy from Honda dealers and the same one that comes with the Special Edition Integra)

i think that's about it for now...

[00dc2]

chuck: ok, maybe i should stop bitching about my car so much :)
Has anyone out there actually weighed their AUDM dc2r?

Remember, in the US the integra is on the Acura line (marketed as higher quality) and cars like the Civic, S2000 are on the Honda line (with motorcycles etc).. so maybe we will get the Civic TypeR in the near future!

[CJL]

Well im happy i got my type r before they become extinct.... alot of ppl dont realise what they are missing out on :D

There was only one real TYPE R INTEGRA ever sold in OZ. > DC2R.
The currently sold DC5 Integra is actually only a TYPE S RSX with the TYPE R stickers- no more, no less! :P

pfft Well sorry know all :roll:

[olda]

Yep, once again business overrides passion :(

U'RE SO RIGHT! THE WORLD IS A BITCH! BEANCOUNTERS RULE :!: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[VTEChnique]

CORRESPONDENCE I RECEIVED FROM HONDA AUSTRALIA :


Dear Mr Grainger

Thank you for your comments recently received on the email facility within
Honda's Internet Site.

We have currently received advice from Honda Motor Co that the Integra Type
R will no longer be available for sale in Australia in the 2005 model
series.

At this stage orders are still being taken by dealerships until the end of
May.



Yours sincerely

Kylie
Honda Customer Relations

[XXpl0Sive]

A SAD SAD DAY FOR HONDA!
They've gone soft...luxury schmuxury!

But it's true with other manufacturers too, like Nissan killing off the Silvia series :evil: :evil: :evil: and moving to N/A

[cheebye]

ohh.. dont get me started about nissan axing production of the S15 :x :x

[kickthecancrew]

Detuned or not, AUDM DC5R is still an R

Extra 5k should be able to net you the brembos and even better rims

Power wise, just get a tunable ecu (plus good octane booster) and bump it right back UP to 167kw or more

The saddest thing here is that australia will NOT be getting the facelifted DC5R with nicer rear lights.. different headlights and DOUBLE WISHBONE front suspension for better handling

Chances are, the new accord type r (rumoured to be turbo vtec) would not make it here as well

[mo]

Dude, you forgot to mention the amount to fork out to get the recaros in :)
They are replacing them with leather seats.

[olda]

Detuned or not, AUDM DC5R is still an R

Extra 5k should be able to net you the brembos and even better rims

Power wise, just get a tunable ecu (plus good octane booster) and bump it right back UP to 167kw or more

The saddest thing here is that australia will NOT be getting the facelifted DC5R with nicer rear lights.. different headlights and DOUBLE WISHBONE front suspension for better handling

Chances are, the new accord type r (rumoured to be turbo vtec) would not make it here as well

AUDM DC5R is basically the US RSX Type S with TYPE R stickers.
That's how I see it! ;) ;) ;)
It will take a hell of lot more than just a tunable ECU to make it perform anything like a genuine DC5 Type R. Try 15K :!:

[mo]

Detuned or not, AUDM DC5R is still an R

Extra 5k should be able to net you the brembos and even better rims

Power wise, just get a tunable ecu (plus good octane booster) and bump it right back UP to 167kw or more

The saddest thing here is that australia will NOT be getting the facelifted DC5R with nicer rear lights.. different headlights and DOUBLE WISHBONE front suspension for better handling

Chances are, the new accord type r (rumoured to be turbo vtec) would not make it here as well

AUDM DC5R is basically the US RSX Type S with TYPE R stickers.
That's how I see it! ;) ;) ;)
It will take a hell of lot more than just a tunable ECU to make it perform anything like a genuine DC5 Type R. Try 15K :!:

Don't forget the US RSX Type-S bodykit is our base DC5 OEM kit. :)

[kickthecancrew]

I was talking bout turning the current AUDM DC5R into JDM spec

Pretty sure some people have already done it

JDM spec ECU + brembos + rims = bout 8k

Wont get 167kw at the engine due to lower RON fuel but hey.. if you do the above, its "jap" spec anyway

Just my 2 cents

[olda]

I was talking bout turning the current AUDM DC5R into JDM spec

Pretty sure some people have already done it

JDM spec ECU + brembos + rims = bout 8k

Wont get 167kw at the engine due to lower RON fuel but hey.. if you do the above, its "jap" spec anyway

Just my 2 cents

AUDM DC5R engine is a cooking JDM DC5 Integra engine, also fitted to EUDM CTR and exported to Japan. ;) ;) ;)
To get 167kw out of it, forget about petrol, you would have to rip the guts out, install all JDM TYPE R internals, head assy, plus ECU and the wiring loom and other expensive accessories.
You'll be looking at the best part of $20k. And that's the very reason why Honda did not bring the real TYPE R "downunder". It would not be price competitive in the given market segment. RRP?????? $60K plus. :cry:

[Xenon]

The k-pro hondata for the aust dc5r already puts down roughly 20kws atw for a stock standard dc5r. Thats already surpassed the jdm dc5r flywheel output....

Brembo brakes look good..mostly for "bling factor". In macau, a lot of the jdm dc5rs swap them over for AP racing. What does that tell u about the brakes?

dont need 20k to get the same output as jdm..

[Tofu]

this is quoted from another member from Clubrsx.com


Just called Honda Australia in Tullamarine Melbourne and they have CONFIRMED to me that they are killing the ENTIRE Integra range.

You can NO LONGER order Base model but still buy whatever stock is in Australia.

You can STILL order Type R model until June/May 2004 as Integra is officially no more for 2005!

I had to call them TWICE to confirm as I just did not believe what I was hearing.

well, that's that for the Integra...
farewell.. :(

[mo]

I know!! How sad...I reckon your integra would hold it's value Tofu, Speicial Edition dude...

[Tofu]

hehe we'll see...
but not after i've modified it...it's probably not worth much

[wynode]

Iff that quote is true Jeff....its a sad sad day :|

[cheebye]

The k-pro hondata for the aust dc5r already puts down roughly 20kws atw for a stock standard dc5r. Thats already surpassed the jdm dc5r flywheel output....

Brembo brakes look good..mostly for "bling factor". In macau, a lot of the jdm dc5rs swap them over for AP racing. What does that tell u about the brakes?

dont need 20k to get the same output as jdm..

don't know if u have felt the brembo's, but I have and they are fkn awesome. esp for a light weight car, they really have some serious stopping power. I have driven evo 6's, 02-03 sti's with the brembo's and only thing I can say is they are worth every cent. u get what u pay for.. in our case, it's unfortunate we have to live with the crappier, more inferior 2-piston caliper setup..

[RedEu]

I just thought a company that spent millions in worldwide racing like F1 (go BAR :P ) and indy, whats the point? there at least be some image car in the dealer, even if it doesnt sell that well.

actually i dont think the DC5R is released officially in any market other that JP, UK dun have it, US dun have it. :? & EP3 is only available in UK outside JP, since its made there. US dun get any Type Rs... & their market is so much bigger than ours :(

[Xenon]

don't know if u have felt the brembo's, but I have and they are fkn awesome. esp for a light weight car, they really have some serious stopping power. I have driven evo 6's, 02-03 sti's with the brembo's and only thing I can say is they are worth every cent. u get what u pay for.. in our case, it's unfortunate we have to live with the crappier, more inferior 2-piston caliper setup..



Umm yeah.. we definitely got ripped of by not having the brembos, but im saying there are alternative setups out there.. Damn honda australia for ripping us off, this is the last honda im gonna get (except maybe the new nsx if i win lotto!!) :x :x

ps. Dc5r has 4-piston calipers at front, 1-piston caliper at rear (apparently the same as s2000?)

[cheebye]

I seriously doubt the dc5r's have 4 piston calipers at the fronts.. if they were 4 piston's, I wouldn't be complaining about the brembo's.

pretty sure ours are 2-piston calipers.

[Xenon]

Go look it up...

Front: 300mm ventilated discs, four piston calipers

Rear: 260mm solid disc, single piston caliper

[Xenon]

However..this info was take from motor magazine.. so cant be entirely sure on accuracy.

The brakes on aust dc5r is quite good, however i feel ABS activates a bit too early.

[wynode]

I thought the ITR was twin pot too........Don't see why you'd need 4 pistons on a car with that power/weight combo?!

[cheebye]

Go look it up...

Front: 300mm ventilated discs, four piston calipers

Rear: 260mm solid disc, single piston caliper

I'll let u know when I do a brake change on mine :)

[Tofu]

DC5R has two piston calipers at the front
that's a fact, otherwise members on clubrsx.com won't be changing from their stock setups to Spoon or Willowood calipers
and i've seen these off the car before when we were fitting ENDLESS 6pot mini calipers on a friend's DC5R :shock:

The UK EP3R is watered down compared to JDM despite what you may have heard and JDM DC5R are everywhere in the UK...they can import the JDM DC5R as easy as we can import Skyline GTS, GTS-T..etc

Honda dealers in UK don't sell the Integra there

[Xenon]

DC5R has two piston calipers at the front
that's a fact, otherwise members on clubrsx.com won't be changing from their stock setups to Spoon or Willowood calipers
and i've seen these off the car before when we were fitting ENDLESS 6pot mini calipers on a friend's DC5R :shock:


Ok sorry, i stand corrected. It seemed a bit hard to believe when i read it.
I guess motor magazine a bit unreliable for their technical data :(

[kickthecancrew]

JDM spec DC5R are available in Singapore, probably HK as well

Only places outside Japan with JDM spec DC5R probably..

anything to add to this.. just do so

[Tofu]

Malaysia, UK (import only)