main relay

[fried]

My car stalled tonight, whilst driving/cruising at about 70km/h. I pulled over, and made a call for help. I was advised as it may have been my main relay.

I let the car cool down for a bit and the car restarted, but quickly stalled. I tried turning it over a few times and it would not start. I had to resort to stopping/stalling, sitting and waiting, and then trying to drive the car, and again, and again, and well, you get my point.

I got home finally, and quickly looked up a couple of things. I came across this...

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31796

and followed it. I opened the relay and found that all soldered contacts were fine, but i decided to solder extra solder into each contact just in case.

Once the relay was installed again, the car start fine.

My question is whether that really does fix the problem - seeing as all my contacts were fine. Could it be something else? Does the relay simply *overheat* and shut itself off?

Is it a symptom of a dying relay when it over heats? Perhaps calling out for a new one.


so your car starts fine, but after some driving it will stall and wont restart, or restart then stall again, this can be symptoms of the Main PGMFI Relay at fault, as well as other things like coil, ICM, but since the main relay is so easy to fix, why not start there.

A good sign of the relay at fault is you might not hear the fuel pump prime for 5 seconds when you 1st turn on the IGN, ( it can still prime if the relay is faulty )
also low or no fuel pressure

That basically described what happened, so assuming it IS the relay, is it as simple as buying a new relay? or will my novice soldering attempts have fixed the problem?

Thanks

[saxman]

it's possible for the contact to look fine, but actually have pulled up a bit from the board... when it warms up, stuff expands at different rates, causing what is a not noticable/barely noticable seperation to get much bigger.

I had the same issue on my crx, resoldered it although everything looked ok, popped it back, and haven't had an issue since.

[fried]

What causes a main relay to overheat? driving conditions? weather? how hard you drive your car?

[saxman]

What causes a main relay to overheat? driving conditions? weather? how hard you drive your car?
the main relay is a notorious problem with these cars. They get old, it cracks, and as the car gets warm(problems usually pop up when it's warm out/someone has the heat on), it expans causing an issue with the connection.

[fried]

Oh thanks for your help saxman.

I'm wondering if "the length of time/number or turn overs before the engine actually starts" is a sign of a wearing relay/dying relay.

Also i noticed a significant power loss when I restarted the car after first stalling.

All honda parts departments in sydney are closed for the weekend. So i have to wait till monday morning to buy a new one. I'm worried if I drive and let the car rev out, it'll just stall again.

[saxman]

if you resoldered the connections, even if it didn't look like it did anything, I would be willing to bet you're fine.

[wynode]

Solder has a low boiling point and just the heating up the main relay is enough to loosen a poorly soldered joint.

[fried]

thanks. lets hope for the best then.

fyi - i called up peter at hanny, and he said "well that's exactly what we would have done, pulled it open, and soldered it, and we've never had any problems from there".

[wynode]

Thought I'd also mention that poor connections on your main relay can also cause hesitation. I had this problem once and afer resoldering the joints it went away.

[EuroDude]

You could resolder it using solder with a higher melting point such as stuff with less lead and more tin - but you need a decent soldering iron, not those cheap $20 things. U can pick some up at Jaycar.

[fried]

well... took the car out tonight.drove it harmlessly for about 15km... then gave it a hit to about 6700rpm, and it jumped as if it hesistated to stall and then caught itself. another 5kms later, it stalled. so i stopped for a while, let it *cool down* and restarted the car, and drove home, for yet another night ending prematurely due to this problem.

i felt the relay after i stalled... and the plastic cover was not even the slight bit warm.

i wonder if buying a new one will just waste me $100 and not be the cause of the issue?

[bennjamin]

have u properly rebuilt the dizzy Eric ? as others have suggested i think , it could be a igniter module issue or dizzy cap / rotor issue - the latter is cheap and might fix the problem. Or spark plug leads are iffy and need replacement. (thats the hesitation , no why its stalling...that is the main relay pretty much !)

[fried]

i'm going to borrow someones relay tomorrow and go for test drive. anyone want to lend me theirs?

does it need to be honda dc2 specific? or just any car? ek4?

[ECU-MAN]

ek4 will do

check the ecu for codes

when it wont start, listen for the relay click
could also be the ICM or coil. ( these may not register any codes in the ECU )

[EuroDude]

have u properly rebuilt the dizzy Eric ?

Yeah sure does sound like a dizzy problem. My car was exhibiting the same problem which was caused by the dizzy coil.

[EG5]

fried ( Eric ) : try to get your dizzy rebuilt , test your igniter , coil , bearing , spark plug leads.

[zorrt]

I had a similar situation (but not to your extent) as you a couple of months ago, my engine wouldnt turn on a hot day or after the car warms up a bit. I'm kinda lost around cars but I just do as my mechanic friend tells me.

What I was told to do was each time that happens just pull over aside then open the fuel line leading into the fuel filter and turn the ignition to on. It should be squirting a healthy amount of petrol everywhere. This test shows if the main relay is working properly or not thats why u need to do it when the problem happens.

Test for you dizzy, I'm not sure where you find the tool. Its a clip with a clear plastic window in the middle which you attach to your spark plug (any will do). When you've done that try starting the car and the spark should fire consistently and strong. I think that test shows that your dizzy is working properly or not.

If the sparks dont fire or doesnt fire consistently, you can take your dizzy out and send it off for testing cuz sometimes just the coil goes which is cheap to replace I think. I think I paid like $40 to test mine from some place in parra which I told told was the best to test dizzy.

Well long story short in the end it turned out my main relay was the culprit so I just replaced it. Like $100 or something.

I was told the thing that commonly goes on Hondas are the main relay, dizzy coil and rarely the computer. Mainly relay and dizzy being first to be testesd as those are the easiest and most common problem areas.

[fried]

car stopped again today. cruising in 4th at about 55-60km/h.

things i noticed. i *think* the engine was still on at first, the revs just dropped to ZERO and had no throttle response., then the ENGINE CHECK LIGHT came on, then i pull over and i guess the engine stops when i halt. i cant be sure, cos im concentrating on not crashing into traffic around me.

i turn the ignition off. turn it back on, and im pretty sure i hear the fuel pump/pressure prime itself.

it COULD be me, but something i also notice is that everytime after i get the car started again, i notice later on that the CLIMATE CONTROL CYCLE INTERIOR AIR button is ON and pressed IN? i NEVER press that button, or use it. wtflip?

maybe it IS something to do with the dizzy? i got a major MAJOR service not too long ago (6000kms) and nothing was said about spark plugs needing replacement, and i did get new sparks.

it just frightens me to have to *try* and drive my car all the way to smithfield and have it stop in the middle of the road etc.

[iamhappy46]

My thoughts:
Intermittent Fuel Pump?
Fuel Filter clogged?(dirt settling back thru fuel lines once stationary)
Dizzy as Bennjamin suggested.

[bennjamin]

im 87% sure its ur dizzy Eric.

Same thing happened to both my civics - car sturggles , stalls - dosent get any better.
Ended up being igniter unit or coil module - overheats quick smart and just dosent work.
$300 should see Unlce robert fix it up for u. Id take it to hannys (just the dizzy) and get him to test it...you can test it as mentioned - pull out one spark plug + lead , place it on the engine block or a bolt (to ground it) - get a friend to turn over the car and look for a spark - if its weak or not there theres a problem there somewhere.