max width for s2k guards

[BRU51N]

hey guys,

just wondering whats the maximum width i could put under the s2k guards?

and what kinda offset would be the minimum i could go?
the owners manual doesnt say anything about offset..

would it be possible to fit 10" or 11" wides on the rears of the s2k?

what would be the optimum offset for the wheels to allow wider wheels?

i can my hands on a set of 10 or 11" wide rims, with offsets of 33 or 34.
what do u guys think?

[toE]

Stock specs are
Front 16 x 6.5 +50
Rear 16 x 7.5 +65

It is possible to fit 10 or 11 on the rears, but not with those offsets I'm afraid. I could be wrong, but that's the research I've done so far.

Maybe you should do some research too ;)

[.::F[L]Y::.]

hey guys,

just wondering whats the maximum width i could put under the s2k guards?

and what kinda offset would be the minimum i could go?
the owners manual doesnt say anything about offset..

would it be possible to fit 10" or 11" wides on the rears of the s2k?

what would be the optimum offset for the wheels to allow wider wheels?

i can my hands on a set of 10 or 11" wide rims, with offsets of 33 or 34.
what do u guys think?

im possible to run rims with those sorta offsets. Atm im running 8.5" at the rears +40 offset. Running this sort of offset severely limits the tyre choice in terms of width which affects handling. I would only recommend it for street use. Unfortunately the s2k isnt like 350z which runs a lower offset for some fat dish...

[BRU51N]

i would like the most fattest wheels that are able to fit under the rear guards of an s2k.

what is the widest wheels u guys have heard that have fitted under the guards? and what kinda offset was it?

[.::F[L]Y::.]

to fit wide rims under the guards you would need to run a higher offset like +60 or something along those lines. I remember widest i have seen is about 9.5" somewhere on s2ki....

[BRU51N]

so if the offset is higher like +50, +60 etc.. would mean its close to the brakes, hence i can fit wider wheels?

would this matter with the coilovers... as in,would the tyres ever hit the coilvers?

[AusS2000]

I'm running 9" with 65 offset. Yes eventually you're going to hit something, be it the guard of the suspension.

The question you really want to ask yourself is why do you want width? The wider your tyres the shorter your contact patch and hence the less traction on take off.

[BRU51N]

I'm running 9" with 65 offset. Yes eventually you're going to hit something, be it the guard of the suspension.

The question you really want to ask yourself is why do you want width? The wider your tyres the shorter your contact patch and hence the less traction on take off.

my perspective.. the wider.. the more dish = the nicer i think.. well thats my opinion....

[AusS2000]

Ahh the "more show than go" philosophy.

Just keep in mind that as you go wider you need a higher offset, so the 'dish' doesn't get any bigger.

[A'PEXi]

negative offset is when your dish starts appearing lmao, but yeh, having such a high offset, i don't see much dish :P maybe you should consider widebody

[AusS2000]

Without wanting to be an ass, maybe he should consider a different car. The 350Z lends itself to as much rice dish as you can eat.

Widebody kits are a whole lot of time and money to end up with a second rate effect that does nothing but ruin your handling and impress pimple faced adolescents.

[blusir2]

I'm running 9" with 65 offset. Yes eventually you're going to hit something, be it the guard of the suspension.

The question you really want to ask yourself is why do you want width? The wider your tyres the shorter your contact patch and hence the less traction on take off.

wat rims have u got?? i know racing hart do a good one in 17x9 with 65 offset.. CP035

i was thinking about gettin a set too for better handling.. are there any issues with rubbing or guard hitting with ur car at the moment.. i guess it all depends how much u lowered it as well..

[AusS2000]

They are Work S2Rs in 18.

I'm lowere about an inch with H&R springs. There is a slight rub at the front right when turning left on uneven road but nothing else.

[BRU51N]

just to confirm with u guys....

19 x 8 front - with 235 tyres
19 x 9 rear - with 245 tyres

and the offset is,

+35 at front
+44 at the rear

will those fit under the s2000 guards?
or are they still too wide?

[BRU51N]

ive lowered my car about 3" front and about 2.75" rears.

the front flap under the splash guard is about 4cms from the ground.. so im looking at bigger wheels..

[AusS2000]

will those fit under the s2000 guards?

Not a hope in hell. You're going to need offsets in the 50-60 range.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

just to confirm with u guys....

19 x 8 front - with 235 tyres
19 x 9 rear - with 245 tyres

and the offset is,

+35 at front
+44 at the rear

will those fit under the s2000 guards?
or are they still too wide?

are you serious?!?

i had +40 offset all round and the widest i could run without scrubbage at about 3" drop is 215/35

btw got pics of the car?

[BRU51N]

narh dont have pics yet.. its just a stock blue 1 thats lowered at the moment.

currently looking for wheels.

ive tried looking up offsets.. and it doesnt make sense...

http://img264.echo.cx/img264/3478/offsetcolour3ws.jpg

if im going +60 then that means im moving towards the guards, how do i get that dish look?

[AusS2000]

You don't.

The hubs on the S2000 are fairly close to the edge of the car. So if you use wider wheels you have to have a higher offset or they will rub.

This really is the sort of thing you should research before you buy a car. If all you want is phat wheels and big dish this is the wrong car for you.

Of you could install a widebody kit and cut the guards. Then you'd be fully hectic HARD!

[BRU51N]

i am after wheels for my car.. not sales person to tell me what car to buy to suit the wheels...

that is why im asking for feedback if i could get them to fit.
im not looking at getting no widebody kits either.

im asking because ive came across a set of second hand wheels, which are reasonably priced. if i had the option to choose an offset with second hand wheels.. i wouldnt have asked...

thanks for help!

[AusS2000]

My bad. Allow me to revise my response:

NO.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

you could jus buy my wheels LOL

[hondaboy]

Then you'd be fully hectic HARD!

HAHAHA

[BRU51N]

Y::.']you could jus buy my wheels LOL

haheahe

pm me a price...

[BRU51N]

My bad. Allow me to revise my response:

NO.

all good in the hood...

[stock2k]

Will 16x9 fit on the rear?

[AusS2000]

You seem to be missing the basic concept of fitment. Within certain limits it's not the width that is important. It's the offset.

I run an 18x9 on the rear. With a 65 offset it fits fine. If the offset was lower (the wheels stick out more) it would rub.

So before anyone can tell you whether or not a 16x9 will fit you will have to tell us the offset. Or, if the offset is 65 you'll be fine. If it's 20, no way.

[TeMp]

You seem to be missing the basic concept of fitment. Within certain limits it's not the width that is important. It's the offset.

I run an 18x9 on the rear. With a 65 offset it fits fine. If the offset was lower (the wheels stick out more) it would rub.

So before anyone can tell you whether or not a 16x9 will fit you will have to tell us the offset. Or, if the offset is 65 you'll be fine. If it's 20, no way.

I have to give it to ya mate. You've got amazing patience! :thumbsup:

Edit: Decided to give ya a hand. If they don't understand after this, I wouldn't bother.

Name of Wheel Parts

http://www.enkei.co.jp/en/images/elem_local_t_know_sketch01.gif

Wheel Size
http://www.enkei.co.jp/en/images/elem_local_t_know_sketch02.gif
http://www.enkei.co.jp/en/images/elem_local_t_know_sketch03.gif
The offset indicates the distance from the center of the rim to the attaching disk part (unit:m/m). As seen in the attached drawing, the offset is indicated by "+" when the fitting surface extends beyond the central line of the rim and "-" when it is falls within. Caution is required to prevent the tire from coming into contact with the fender of the vehicle or the brake caliper if the offsets are very different.

PCD

http://www.enkei.co.jp/en/images/elem_local_t_know_sketch04.gif

The number of bolts used to install a wheel varies from 4 to 6 depending on the vehicle model (except for some vehicle type), thus the wheel to be installed should also possess the same number of hub bolt holes. P.C.D. stands for pitch circle diameter, and indicates the diameter of the circle in mm connecting the center of each hub bolt. Since the P.C.D. also varies according to the vehicle model, make sure a suitable one is selected.

Clearance

http://www.enkei.co.jp/en/images/elem_local_t_know_sketch05.gif

Fender clearance indicates the marginal space between the tire and the fender or body of the vehicle. Inner clearance indicates the distance between the tire and wheel and the body part which is positioned closest to the tire and wheel. Dimensions for both right and left clearance should be measured on a level surface, and the smaller value is then considered as the inner clearance.

Tyre Size

http://www.enkei.co.jp/en/images/elem_local_t_know_sketch06.gif


1-Tire width (mm or inch)
2-Aspect ratio
3-Radial construction
4-Rim diameter
5-Load index
6-Speed symbol
7-Tire outer diameter (inch)
8-Ply rating

*sourced from CRSX, http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=316735&highlight=offset

[AusS2000]

Ricers are people too. ;)

BTW, Wow, nice diagrams.

[hondaboy]

Ricers are people too. ;)

Aus, some pure gold in the topic, loving it.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

this is becoming very educational.

Nice post 'temp'

[robert112]

I'm running 9" with 65 offset. Yes eventually you're going to hit something, be it the guard of the suspension.

The question you really want to ask yourself is why do you want width? The wider your tyres the shorter your contact patch and hence the less traction on take off.

i have to disagree with this.

Wider tyres = mroe rubber on the ground = more grip.

the same tyre in 205's and the same tyre in 255's on the same car, well the 255s will have better traction.

[AusS2000]

Tyres are pneumatic. They rely on air pressure to maintain shape. In simplest terms, the higher the air pressure (psi or Kg/cm2) the less is touching the road. The lower, the more (think of a flat tyre as an extreme). So if you have a 225 at 36psi and a 265 at 36psi the area of the tyre touching the ground (the SI in PSI) will be the same. But with a wider tyre the shape will be short and wide. With a narrow tyre it will be long and narrow.

[robert112]

what your saying is not wrong but going of each tyres factory recommendations of psi.

a 265/35 profile wide tyre will have more ground contact than a 205/60 tyre if both are pumped to the standard settings.

and ontop of all this, theres another variable that if ur relying on letting ur tyre pressure down to have mroe contact with the road and ur rims are too thin so that the tyres bulge outside the rim then if u spin the tyres at high velocity they will warp inwards and become 'skinny' while they spin because of the G's (the same thing happens when u watch the 4 second funny cars look at what happens to their extremely wide tyres at the back when they do burnouts)

either way no matter what at the end of the day if u have the same tyre go buy the 265 (or the fatter one) for more grip!
this is why s2ks come out with 225s on the back and 205s on the front. staggered tyre size for grip compensation!

[AusS2000]

Oh well, you know best.

[robert112]

ur a mature one aint chya ;p

[AusS2000]

Hey, at least I can form a coherent sentence.

[AusS2000]

Here ya go:


It's inaccurate to assume that as the section width or tread width increases that the contact patch area also increases. Nor does it remain constant as [Vertical Force] / [Constant Inflation Pressure] suggests. Conceivably, it could decrease depending on the relative vertical stiffnesses. But what will change is the shape of the contact patch, becoming shorter in the longitudinal direction as it is made wider (assuming a constant load), and this may be partly responsible for more uniform unit loading over the area of the contact patch. All else equal, integrating a more uniform unit load and associated grip coefficient function over the entire contact patch should give more total lateral grip. The wider tire probably also has higher vertical and lateral spring rates, meaning less camber loss and lateral distortion in actual driving respectively.

BTW, the drag strip crowd tends to run tires that give relatively longer contact patches . . .

From here:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=102250&page=1

[AusS2000]

BTW, my S came with 225s on the rear and I'm now running 265s. So it's not like I'm not speaking from experience.

[robert112]

okay well im going to take your approach to this for ' ye what ever u know best '...
I can't give you any article that proves my theory buddy all I can give you are Time slips from wedesday nights and freaky friday events at Eastern Creek WSID of how my times get over 1 second faster with fat tyres as opposed to skinny ones...

You obviously have never driven a 12 second or faster car down the 1/4.

and according to you, the s2k needs more grip on the front of the car then it does on the back so that means its a car very prone to understeer? <insert sarcasm here>

also.... lastly if you read your own article you would see not everyone (example: GregLocock and patprimmer and a few more) agrees with the topic starter.

example:GregLocock said:

In theory for a given tyre wear you could have softer rubber on the wider tyre which should improve the dry weather grip. I suspect this is a small effect.
Cheers

Greg Locock

and patprimmer said:
patprimmer (Automotive) 29 Aug 04 2:26
I am not the most qualified to comment on this, but in my experience and from what I have gleaned from more qualified people, wider is generally better re grip, but there are several qualifiers.

edit*

Greg Locock also said:

just went to a presentation by a big tyre manufacturer, they are very insistent that in the dry, for high performance handling (ie grip vs wear, basically), wider=better.

All tyre design is a compromise, the more real estate you've got to play with, the better that compromise will be.


Cheers

Greg Locock

dude the thread is basically agreeing with me and not you, did u evne read the thing or did u just agree with the topic starter and close the window? *shakes head* ur wasting my time im no longer replying to this.

[AusS2000]

Now, now, keep your panties on. Yes I did read the thread. And I realise it is a logical opinion in agreeance with mine and bunch of ricers arguing against it like you.

Have I driven a 12 second car? Daily. Down the 1/4? No, most of my races last slightly longer than that.


and according to you, the s2k needs more grip on the front of the car then it does on the back so that means its a car very prone to understeer? <insert sarcasm here>

Yeah, you're just being a dick there. The S is prone to oversteer in corners hence the wider tyres at the rear. They are wider for lateral grip.


shakes head* ur wasting my time im no longer replying to this.

Is that a promise? I doubt it.

Look, it's a very simple fact that if a car weighs 1200Kg and is evenly weighted there is approximately 300Kg per wheel (forgive the rounding, I don't want to make it too complicated for you). At 32psi (2.25Kg/cm2) the contact patch is 133.3sq.cm. Increase the pressure to 36 and it reduces to 118.6. That is regardless of the width. All that changes is the shape. And if a tyre gets wider then the contact patch gets shorter. If you can fault the physics let me know.

Of course this is all static. As soon as you launch on the drag strip or brake at the end of a straight (in real racing ;) ) the weight shifts aft or fore (respectively) so things increase or decrease accordingly. But the logic is still the same. Wider equals shorter (within realistic limits).

One of the questions in that thread is "if wider ain't better why do race cars have wide tyres?". The answer is really simple. You make up more time in corners (you've heard of them?) than in the straights, and wider contact patches are good for corners. You'll also notice where they comment that drag racers (the real ones, not the rice mobiles) have quite narrow tyres in relation to their diameter.

As for why your timeslips are better with wider tyres, there are probably a number of factors. Most street modified cars, and the S2000 in particular aren't very torquey. So rather than a full grip start you get the engine and wheels spinning and modulate the grip. You probably find that with wider tyres (less longitudinal grip) you have more control over the slip. Another point is that your drag tyres are probably a much different compound to street tyres. I use RE55s on the track (I think they are a 225 or 245) and a 265 on the road. Sure the RE55s have more grip, but I doubt that is just because of their width. They are a soft sticky compound.

We've both been a bit of a dick in this thread. You may not agree with me, and I certainly think you're full of sh!t but I've got nothing much more to add. Let the punters make up their own mind.