Coming out of gear without clutch in while moving

[N4CER]

I have a manual 2003 model gli civic and sometimes when i'm driving, with only a small amount of pressure on the gear stick I am able to pop it out of gear while moving, without putitng the clutch in first.

Anyone know why this would happen and if i should take it to get checked out as the car is still under warranty? Or if it's just a normal thing?

Thanks.

[bengbear]

its normal

[XXpl0Sive]

normal.
seen it in many cars.

[N4CER]

thanks guys, in saying that i think ill try it in my dads car (Mazda 323) and if it does it, no need to worry i guess :-)

[vti-2]

Yeah this is normal. You really have to be careful with hydro boxes though cause if you try to take it out of gear at a certain speed in the wrong gear you will crunch gears and in some cases possibly damage the box. :?

I think most manual style gearboxes (not the new tiptronics) are designed so that you can slip it out of gear. But i don't think you can take it out of fifth if you have slowed down to 20km/h or something. Haven't tried cause i didn't want to do any damage but that's why you can take it out of 4th at 80km/h for example. You are only doing damage when you hear a noise when you shift it out of gear.

Anyone else got more technical info on this?

[XXpl0Sive]

My only knowledge bout this, is my friend could do it in his car, thought there was something wrong, so we tried in my car, and it could get popped back. And now with my new car, it can be popped back too, but a bit harder.

[EG_2_TEG]

is shouldn't be too easy to pop it out of gear

mine takes a bit of effort to do :?

[N4CER]

is shouldn't be too easy to pop it out of gear

mine takes a bit of effort to do :?Well in certain gears at certain speeds it IS actually quite easy for me to do this (eg. when I'm in 4th and doing 50km/h or so).

Would this indicate a problem with the gearbox/clutch or anything?

Thanks again.

[snowman95]

..just use the clutch.. :)

[2ds]

no this is perfectly normal, if you know your car really well you should be able to drive without using the clutch. you just have to know the speed rpm ranges to pop it in and out of each gear

-2ds

[Kit]

I just re-read the first question,
the car should not pop out of gear while accelerating or braking, but can be popped out of gear easily under certain throttle conditions. the car should never pop out of gear by itself.

for example, if you are accelerating, then back off to be totally off the throttle, for the small time frame when you back off, before the car starts to slow down due to engine load, that is the only time when it should pop out easily, any other time isn't normal i would say.

[Rufes1]

i pop mine out of fith all the time without using the clutch, mainly when approaching a set of lights.

But hey im just lazy.

It is possible to use your manual tranny without a clutch at all if you know the right revs it can slip through each gear at.

I dont dare try slip it INTO gear. Just out, but it can be done easily if you know how to do it.

[carbine]

rev matching.

At the correct revs it actually pulls itself in to gear.

Heal toe Mr miyagi ^_^

[N4CER]

anyone know all the correct rev ranges to pop in and out of gear without using the clutch? :D hehe

[Javed]

From what I know/heard its very much so based on feel. IT is like you have to become one with your car.

[Kit]

From what I know/heard its very much so based on feel. IT is like you have to become one with your car.

from what I heard, its got nothing to do with how well you know your car, its a totally pointless exercise, and works your syncros hard.
:D

[2ds]

From what I know/heard its very much so based on feel. IT is like you have to become one with your car.

from what I heard, its got nothing to do with how well you know your car, its a totally pointless exercise, and works your syncros hard.
:D

um, i think the whole point is it doesn't work your syncros at all and that is why it works.

-2ds

[Kit]

From what I know/heard its very much so based on feel. IT is like you have to become one with your car.

from what I heard, its got nothing to do with how well you know your car, its a totally pointless exercise, and works your syncros hard.
:D

um, i think the whole point is it doesn't work your syncros at all and that is why it works.

-2ds

no, it does work your syncromesh, and it works it hard.
I'll type a more indepth explanation later.

it is totally pointless cos it doesnt speed up your gear changes in anyway either.

[2ds]

i await your response with baited breath (i have to stop eating pippi's)

-2ds

[Kit]

Ok, sitting at home now and got a bit more time to explain it in more detail.

just gotta explain the basics first so that you have a better idea how it all works...

in a really brief nutshell:
- There is an independant item called the layshaft that connects the engine with the transmission.
- if the clutch is engaged the layshaft is connected to the engine, if a gear is selected the layshaft is connected to the transmission
- if no gear is selected and the clutch is disengaged then the layshaft isnt connected to anything.
- Synchromesh matches the gear with the speed of the spinning layshaft, whenever you change gears.

It important to note that Synchromesh can really only match small differences in revs between the layshaft and gear, so sometimes when shifting hard at high rpm, the sychros cant match the revs quickly enough and you might get some crunching.
Likewise if you keep your foot on the clutch while braking and then select a gear, the layshaft may have already slowed and once again might crunch as the difference in speed is too great.

so why does it work your synchros really hard when you change gears without the clutch?
when you change gears normally you step on the clutch, so that the layshaft will disengage with the engine, the synchros then match the gear speed to this small spinning mass.

so if you are changing gears without the clutch by putting light pressure on the gearstick until it slots into gear, the layshaft is still connected to the engine, the synchromesh will try to match the gear speed to the speed of the layshaft still connected to the engine!

when it slots into gear, there is actually still a small difference in speed between the layshaft/engine and the gear you are trying to select while the synchros are working really hard to match the speed differences

it goes into gear finally when the speed difference is small enough for the synchros to match against the load of the layshaft/engine.

for those that have changed gears without the clutch you will also find that the car jolts into gear, this is cos you aren't using the clutch to smooth the transition from when the engine connects to the gear.

makes sense?

[bizee_1]

From what I know/heard its very much so based on feel. IT is like you have to become one with your car.

i guess i am one with 3 cars then !

i wouldn't say it is pointless though Kit, shifting without using the clutch is only really good when your clutch don't work &/or cable has snapped, or trying to impress the ladies :)

Had to drive for 40mins with my sister's '64 VW Beetle 'cause the cable partially snapped. You had to switch off the car, engage gear with clutch in, then start the car & take off. Every intersection, lights you had to do that if you came to a complete stop or couldn't downshift.

Downshifting is much harder than upshifting IMHO. [rev matching is trickier]

[Kit]

From what I know/heard its very much so based on feel. IT is like you have to become one with your car.

i guess i am one with 3 cars then !

i wouldn't say it is pointless though Kit, shifting without using the clutch is only really good when your clutch don't work &/or cable has snapped, or trying to impress the ladies :)

Had to drive for 40mins with my sister's '64 VW Beetle 'cause the cable partially snapped. You had to switch off the car, engage gear with clutch in, then start the car & take off. Every intersection, lights you had to do that if you came to a complete stop or couldn't downshift.

Downshifting is much harder than upshifting IMHO. [rev matching is trickier]

hehehe well if you're got a dead clutch or something like that, then if shifting without the clutch gets you home then thats the option I'd take too. i think this is the only time it would be useful though! :)

but you have to say, the clutch is there for a reason so you should use it... shifting gears without the clutch when your clutch is fine really is pointless and damaging to your car (especially when you get it wrong! :D )
its another one of those things that you can use to brag to your mates about and thats all its good for :)

to downshift without the clutch what you have to do is actually rev over the engine speed in that gear and then let it drop down before popping it into gear.

Chris