Aus' Engine Rebuild [Archive]

AusS2000

19-03-2006, 08:09 AM

I stripped the shortblock last week but can't see any obvious problems. Apparently it was using oil but hte cylinders look fine. Not sure about the rings though.

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00025.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00026.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00027.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00028.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00029.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00030.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00031.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00032.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00033.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00034.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00035.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00036.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00037.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00038.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00039.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00042.jpg

http://s2000.byteserve.com.au/images/shortblock/DSC00043.jpg

Slow96GSR

19-03-2006, 08:37 AM

Looks like the cylinders need a little bit of deglazing, but that's easy.

AusS2000

19-03-2006, 09:12 AM

That's what I thought. They are shiny and glazed and feel like teflon.

What is the deglazing process? Is it just honing? And would It usually require oversized pistons?

jimmeh

19-03-2006, 09:19 AM

That's what I thought. They are shiny and glazed and feel like teflon.

What is the deglazing process? Is it just honing? And would It usually require oversized pistons?
light hone and youll be fine

ProECU

19-03-2006, 10:53 AM

if you're going to the trouble of building a block, go oversized postons and hone to clearance specs of the postons.

A light hone wont cut it IMO

honda_b_blastn

19-03-2006, 11:08 AM

Gap your rings,check if they are within specs..how are your oil rings?,but as Proecu suggested would be a perfect time to UPGRADE!

Also your valve stem seals are another common area where oil can escape,best to get your head serviced while your at it.

Slow96GSR

19-03-2006, 12:17 PM

Ya you got it all torn down, it costs the same to upgrade as to go with stock parts, or least here it’s the same. I would first measure everything. Then if you need oversized pistons you know what to get. If you are not looking to go big performance you don't need oversized pistons unless they have to hone it out a bunch. Check for out of round cylinders, ring gaps, piston to wall clearances, the decks, and other stuff. You are at the best point to upgrade things too. But first you must measure to see what you have.

What the cylinders should look like...
http://www.strathlan.com/TEK/images/newsleevesside.jpg

AusS2000

20-03-2006, 11:19 AM

Is that a girdle, or fully sleeved block?

I'd love to sleeve but the only price I've had so far is $2300 and that's too rich for me.

AusS2000

20-03-2006, 11:21 AM

Oh, BTW this is a shortblock I bought from Melbourne. I believe it was a Honda warranty job on an engine that was loosing oil. So either the block was loosing the oil or the customer has a new short block and is still chewing through oil.

ProECU

20-03-2006, 11:44 AM

That block you now have, was burning oil due to poor ring seal. end of story.

You need to hone it to spec.
Install new pistons & rings and you're set.

Slow96GSR

20-03-2006, 12:27 PM

Is that a girdle, or fully sleeved block?

I'd love to sleeve but the only price I've had so far is $2300 and that's too rich for me.

Fully sleeved, $1800USD with shipping. It would be a little more on shipping because you are overseas but it might be less if you use freight.

A shop here can do it for $925USD but then it's done at the shop I use, not at Darton, still the same quality since they've done sleeves for 20+ years and have only had 2-3 ever have something wrong and then it's a manufacture issue. I had mine done at ERL Perfomance because they were swamped and didn't have time. It's about $675 for the sleeves and $250 in labor and whatever shipping is. I can't sell them to you yet but that's what I get charged to do them so in 10 days let me know, I'll be a member then!!

Bowzer

20-03-2006, 04:43 PM

S2000 use FRM sleeves found on the H22A motors and NSX motors, Fibre Reinforced Material. If your considering honing this block there are special instructions and not to mention the machinest needs to have a Sunnen machine thats capable of honing FRM sleeves. If you need the instructions send me a PM, show this to the machinest and ask weither or not they have the machine capable of doing it.

But looking at the condition of the walls it doesnt look to bad. If you run your fingers on the walls and dont find any deep scratches you could prob get away with dropping in new pistons and rings and call it a day. I would just check the bore size and piston to wall clearance to see if they are in spec.

I a F20C block with exact same issue, my guess is the motor was probably trashed once it left the showroom which meant the piston rings didnt get a chance to seat well which would prob explain why the high oil consumption.

When you pull out the pistons have a look at the clocking of the rings. If you find the rings on thrust side or on the side of the piston ring chances are that that cylinder would of had more tendancy to consume more oil and compression would be lower...

Bowzer

20-03-2006, 04:53 PM

I forgot to mention, if your going down the Forced induction road, FRM sleeves are no good with Forged pistons. The properties of the FRM prevent them to be used reliably with them with most aftermarket piston manufacturers as FRM sleeves have been design to run tighter piston to wall clearances. Using a Forged piston you will find the clearance is more on the loser side. At high rpm and the thermal expansion rates of forged pistons causes the FRM walls to score which turns your block into junk after a very short while.

spardikis

20-03-2006, 05:08 PM

Id say just do the rebuild yourself, bugger payin someone loads of cash to do something u can do yourself.... I did mine and it was easy, u just need a helms manual and a decent mechanical mind and yeah.. sweet.

Im waiting for the "ARRGGG!! u cant do that""" HAHA!!

spardikis

20-03-2006, 05:16 PM

i thought using a block gaurd was a bit of a intresting issue?? what are the pro's and cons, is there any point?

Slow96GSR

20-03-2006, 10:09 PM

I think our honer (http://www.strathlan.com/TEK/images/hone.jpg) can do em just fine!! As for thermal expansion look here (http://www.strathlan.com/TEK/docs/ThermalConsiderations.pdf). For a block guard I would rather not. I had one before I sleeved and it warped my cylinders. I know some have had success with them but I hate them. There are many different types of aluminum out there so find out what your block is made from and match the guard to it so they expand and contract at the same temps. Read in the thermal link, you’ll get what I am saying then.

AusS2000

20-03-2006, 10:09 PM

I forgot to mention, if your going down the Forced induction road, FRM sleeves are no good with Forged pistons.

I don't believe that is true. The stock pistons are forged.

What is required is that the pistons are designed for FRM cylinders (ie. that they have a high silicon content).

AusS2000

20-03-2006, 10:12 PM

Id say just do the rebuild yourself

I will defintely do the rebuild myself. I do all my own work. But I don't have the equipment to properly hone cylinders or machine them out and fit sleeves.

And a lot of the process is extremely high precision so I will be measuring twice, cutting once if you know what I mean. I'll also be buying a very experienced engine builder loads of beer in the process.

Slow96GSR

20-03-2006, 10:14 PM

Guiness ok! Make sure you send it to the house not the shop. I'll never see it!

AusS2000

20-03-2006, 10:20 PM

Sure, if only you were a little closer.

Slow96GSR

20-03-2006, 10:21 PM

Ya that's the problem with you guys down there. If only you all were here I could hook you all up with all the cool fun stuff.

AusS2000

20-03-2006, 10:27 PM

Still, it has it's up side. ;)

Slow96GSR

20-03-2006, 10:32 PM

I wouldn't even think of having you all send a block to me. Shipping would have to be done UPS or FedEx at 4-5 days at $800USD, 5-10 days at $500USD

USPS/Mail won't ship, too heavy.

I will look into whom we used for our shipping for the IRL cars and parts but I think FedEx was a sponsor so it was free. I know you can go to the airport and put it on a plane but it has to be met there at the destination for fees and pickup.

Specs: 100 pounds with 24"x24"x24" crate, $1800USD insurance. From 80920 USA to 2088 AUS.

Bowzer

21-03-2006, 02:09 AM

I don't believe that is true. The stock pistons are forged.

What is required is that the pistons are designed for FRM cylinders (ie. that they have a high silicon content).

At the moment I only know of one piston manufacturer that offers that kind of piston for the s2000 but it has a pretty hefty price tag not sure if they offer a smaller dome configuration as it is design for NA.

I'm using a high silicon content Forged Piston in a H22A setup, it comes at a big expense as JUN/MAHLE only manufacturers i know that offer that setup.

If your deciding to run boost with these sleeves and having a motor that will last let me know how your motor holds up.

Slow96GSR

21-03-2006, 04:17 AM

Look here (http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/f20c1parts.html)! I'll look for more later.

saxman

21-03-2006, 07:41 AM

I don't believe that is true. The stock pistons are forged.

What is required is that the pistons are designed for FRM cylinders (ie. that they have a high silicon content).
there is a difference in the composition of a forged piston for boost and a forged piston for an n/a application, and this affects the heat expansion, etc, and how it works with the different sleeves, etc

not all forged pistons are the same

AusS2000

21-03-2006, 07:46 AM

WHen I order them I will be ordering a low compression piston for FRM cylinders and specifying all the specs of my engine.

spardikis

21-03-2006, 08:22 AM