so you want to add hids?

[saxman]

THIS is how you do it... none of that plug and play crap. Want it to work as it's supposed to and help light up the road? Projectors are the only way!

http://i1.tinypic.com/ruws4y.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/ruwsvp.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/ruwt4i.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/ruwv9h.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/ruwvgy.jpg

no, they're not finished yet... still need to make shrouds for them and such.

[wink]

Want it to work as it's supposed to and help light up the road? Projectors are the only way!

Yeah that's why there are factory reflectors with HIDs.

[Menzy]

i dont get what he has done to it ... ?

[saxman]

Yeah that's why there are factory reflectors with HIDs.
yes, but they're reflectors designed for hid bulbs... they are designed to reflect the light as hid's out put it. Using an hid bulb in a halogen designed housing is no where near comparable. It would be FAR FAR FAR more difficult to retrofit an entire reflector designed hid set up than projector.

[EuroDude]

Would you need to get an engineers certificate for that?

[sivic]

yes, but they're reflectors designed for hid bulbs... they are designed to reflect the light as hid's out put it. Using an hid bulb in a halogen designed housing is no where near comparable. It would be FAR FAR FAR more difficult to retrofit an entire reflector designed hid set up than projector.
but all light reflects in the same manner, regardless of spectrum.
some of the plug and play jobs i have seen have been extremely effective.
as far as retro fitting projectors its a question cost/effort for benefit.

[saxman]

but all light reflects in the same manner, regardless of spectrum.
some of the plug and play jobs i have seen have been extremely effective.
as far as retro fitting projectors its a question cost/effort for benefit.
it's not an issue of the spectrum, it's an issue of the focal point of the housing. A halogen bulb is more of a point source of light, a hid bulb projects light over a length. The housing for a halogen reflector is design with the focal point to the be point light source. When an hib bulb is used, light is being emitted from where it normally isn't, so you get a large amount of usable light being lost to glare.

[DomenEK]

Ok, that's all good and well. But how did you do it?

How about a DIY write, as I'm keen to see what you have done, and what the end result is and how it lights up the road.

[saxman]

will do... I need to pull the mounts out to have them cut in metal(just prototyped in plastic), and I'll document the final assembly and such.

[[stealth]]

nice work so far... 2.5" or 3" projector? E46? Audi?

[saxman]

they're off an audi tt... however, they're the same as the e46 no bixenons, etc

[DomenEK]

What about high-beam? I only see the projector, and no high-beam reflector/bulb??

[saxman]

What about high-beam? I only see the projector, and no high-beam reflector/bulb??
in my case, I'm using a seperate housing for the high beam.
you can retrofit bixenon projectors, however, that have use the same projector for high beam and low beam

[sivic]

it's not an issue of the spectrum, it's an issue of the focal point of the housing. A halogen bulb is more of a point source of light, a hid bulb projects light over a length. The housing for a halogen reflector is design with the focal point to the be point light source. When an hib bulb is used, light is being emitted from where it normally isn't, so you get a large amount of usable light being lost to glare.
i see what you're saying. so its not really an issue of HID or halogen but the basic position of the light source. the arc of a HID bulb is not much different in size to a halogen filament

[saxman]

i see what you're saying. so its not really an issue of HID or halogen but the basic position of the light source. the arc of a HID bulb is not much different in size to a halogen filament
no... the filament of the hid bulb is very different than the arc of a halogen bulb... that's the whole problem... using a halogen bulb, the light source is a basically a point source where the arc is... a very small overall surface area...

the hid emits light from the entire length of the filament, and as such a halogen reflector is recieving light from where it's not supposed to, giving off tons of glare.

[saxman]

made some more progress... this time with the shrouds to further eliminate any extra glare and to make things look better

http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010197.JPG

http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010196.JPG

http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010195.JPG

[saxman]

on with more pictures

http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010204.JPG

so you can see the difference in between what happened between today and the last update... this is the difference adding the shroud makes... look at all that extra glare! so much better with the shroud on

http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010201.JPGwith
http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010200.JPGwithout


and to really show the difference in the light output... I stacked the lights on top of each other, turned them on, and lit up the wall
http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010205.JPG

http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010202.JPG

[Ferrari]

Excellent work saxman..

Please post a DIY when your finished,

Your del sol must be looking good these days, post some pics up!

[saxman]

it's in need of hitting the body shop... after that, I'll post up some new pics... have a new front lip waiting to on, but it also needs to have the hood replaced, and then everything front of the doors repainted.

[Boost]

nice retro saxman... what shroud is that?
Needs some more colour tho... try putting a few washers to sligtly increase the distance between the projector and the bowl..or bend the shield slightly towards the bowl...should give it more colour.
N.B. when bending the shield... turn the projector on before bending, this allows you to see how much colour your getting. If you bend it too much it will distort the sharp cut off. Good luck.. looking good mate.

[saxman]

the shroud is a modified 3" air filter to maf sensor adapter

the lights have great color... you just have to consider that these photos are taken like three feet away from the wall. When you shine them at a wall further away, the beautiful blue comes out. I have already color modded both shields.

nice to see someone else on here that knows what they're talking about. It always amazes me how many people in australia think adding hid's to a car means using one of those bulb adapter kits in a halogen designed headlight.

[saxman]

Please post a DIY when your finished
I just pretty much finished the second light, and I took step by step photos, so after I get them all aimed up, the bezel on, and finish the wiring harness, I'll post up a step by step with photos

[tinkerbell]

Would you need to get an engineers certificate for that?

he is in USA so it is not illegal to retrofit HID's to cars that never originally had them...

[saxman]

he is in USA so it is not illegal to retrofit HID's to cars that never originally had them...
there's actually some debate to the legality of doign this over here... in the end, doing a retrofit with the entire projector assembly is questionably legal, but as it acts just like stock, the chances of ever even being questioned about it are so low, it's really not worrying about.

Using one of those hid kits that allows you to use an hid bulb in a halogen housing, however, are very much illegal, and attract a ton of attention from the cops

[Boost]

ah ok.. yeh from the pics. you cant really see the colour.
Ive got the bosch e46 bixenon awating to be fitted on my next car.
I also did a washer mod to it. the colour is superb.
The problem is not many people are willing to spend the money on lighting. Or they dont know much about HID.
At the moment ive got 2 denso ballast, 2 phillips d2s bulbs that I wont to sell on here but its alot more expensive than what other traders are selling their taiwan/korean kits for so they would rather buy those. But the thing is, you pay for what you get...
* shrugs * oh well..

Heres an e45 ece bixenon- just playing around with diff. # of washers

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/boostboost/bosche46withdensod2s.jpg

This is a standard 2001 dc2 headlight which comes with a projector. Little/no colour at all.. but the cutoff is sharp.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/boostboost/01Headlightswithdensods2.jpg

[Boost]

there's actually some debate to the legality of doign this over here... in the end, doing a retrofit with the entire projector assembly is questionably legal, but as it acts just like stock, the chances of ever even being questioned about it are so low, it's really not worrying about.

Using one of those hid kits that allows you to use an hid bulb in a halogen housing, however, are very much illegal, and attract a ton of attention from the cops

Id agree with saxman.
If you want to use reflectors with HID then i suggest get d2r bulbs which are made for reflector type headlights. The cutoff and colour etc etc is not even close to projector quality. But thats the trade off i guess... some HID is better than none.:D

[saxman]

Id agree with saxman.
If you want to use reflectors with HID then i suggest get d2r bulbs which are made for reflector type headlights. The cutoff and colour etc etc is not even close to projector quality. But thats the trade off i guess... some HID is better than none.:D
the problem is there isn't an hid bulb designed for use in a reflector type halogen housing. There are plenty that will fit(i.e. all those cheap thai/chinese kits), but they aren't designed to work with a reflector type halogen housing.

Before I install these, I'll do some comparison shots using my d2s bulbs in my stock housings so people can really see what they're doing.

Next post... how to

[Boost]

Halogen housing with HID is just a no go imho.
But people still do it..

[saxman]

So I've been getting a lot of requests by people to make them a set of these after posting up photos of the first light, so I decided to document the construction on the second one so everyone can see what all is involved. I have the lights pretty much finished at this point in time, however, I still need to aim them, wire them up, and attach the shrouds(which are in the mail) before they're actually finished. I will update with those bits when I get to them.


So this is what you're going for

http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010204.JPG

and this is why you're doing this

http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010202.JPG(hid on top, stock headlights with "high output" bulbs on the bottom

Some of the things I wanted to be sure were maintained were a some what stockish appearance. I didn't want these to completely stand out. I wanted to keep glare to a minimum. I wanted to maintain all of the stock adjustability so you can aim them on the car, just like stock(after some initial aiming to get things alligned correctly), and I wanted to keep it looking like everything was supposed to be there(no homedepot bolts sticking out the back, etc).


so to start... what do you need:

Headlights: this how to will specifically cover these headlights
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-1PC-93-94-95-96-97-HONDA-DEL-SOL-CHROME-HEADLIGHTS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33710QQitemZ 8051783838QQrdZ1
You can make others work, you can make stock lights work, but the steps won't necessarily be the same. I haven't dissassembled other sol headlights, so I can't say for sure.

HID hardware/projectors: I am using the Bosch single xenon projectors. These act only as a low beam, and were found on some of the e46 bmw m3's, audi tt's, etc. These are different than the e46 bmw bi-xenons, etc. Other projectors are likely to be larger, but they all have their advantages and disadvantages. You will also need bulbs(in this case d2s bulbs... no, your stock h4's won't work), ballasts, ignitors, and a start of a wiring harness. This can all be purchased as a package from here http://www.hidplanet.com/package.html.

Shrouds/mounts: A shroud is used to keep all of the light in the projector from only going out the lens. If you don't use a shroud a lot of extra glare can occur, reducing the light output and blinding on coming drivers.
http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010200.JPG this is without a shroud
http://www.upshizzle.com/x/P1010201.JPG this is with

I used a pair of 3" Air Intake Mass Air Flow Sensor Adapters, Spectre Performance part number 81413. These can be ordered from Kragen/Napa for about $12 each.

Wiring: I'll get into this in an update

Bezel: A bezel isn't really necessary, but does add to the finished appearance. I'll get into this in an update. This is what I'll be using http://www.hidplanet.com/i/bezel_smooth.jpg

Tools:
A dremel tool with a large variety of cutting wheels. You're going to be cutting... a lot.

A philips screwdriver

A Torx t-20 screwdriver

Consumables:
Masking tape

J-B Kwik
J-B Weld (I used both. The kwik is used to quickly set parts so they don't move, the jb weld is used for it's strength and longeivity, but requires a much longer setting time. Kwik to make it stick, weld to make it stay)

[saxman]

Now for the fun to begin...

Step 1 Go to your oven, turn it on to 225 degrees, and let it warm up

Step 2 On the lights, you'll see a few rubber parts. Remove these. Also, you will see 4 silver metal clips holding the lens on. Pop these off.

Step 3 Start baking. Pop the lights in the oven for about 5 minutes. Keep a close eye on things, or the housing will start to melt. After 5 minutes or so, the sealant around the lens will melt, and you can easily pull the lights off. Remove the lens.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010206.JPG

Step 4 Now you're going to remove the reflector housing inside the light.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010207.JPG
To do this, start by unscrewing the adjusting screw on the rear of the light all the way.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010210.JPG
The reflector is held in by this bolt, and two other clips. After the bolt is unscrewed all the way(you'll be able to feel it), the reflector just pulls out. It does take some force to do this, so don't be afraid to pull. When the reflector is out, remove the three black mounting clips and set them aside in a safe spot, you'll need them again. For now, set the reflector housing aside as well.

Step 5 Time to start working on the projector itself. When mounted flush with the mounts for the reflector, the projector won't quite fit in the hole allowed for it in the housing. Go get the dremel with a few cutting tools and the t-20 torx driver. Since you're going to be cutting the mounts on the projector, and dust and stuff is going to be going everywhere, you want to protect the delicate parts. Start with removing the lens itself, and the mounts it's on. It's held on by 4 torx screws. When you remove it, the shield will also come off. Set these all aside.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010212.JPG

With the lens and such removed, grab the masking tape, and start taping. You want to protect the bowl in the middle. This probably isn't absolutely necessary... but better safe than sorry.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010214.JPG

You're now going to cut off basically the mounts. You want to trim this as much as you possibly can. When finished, it should look like this.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010215.JPG
After this part is removed, put the shield and lens back on the projector, shield goes first.

Step 6Time to start working on the shrouds. The shourds fit great over the top of the projector, however because it tapers towards the bottom, it won't fit there. Setting the shroud on at this point will clearly show that, as this is as far as it will go.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010218.JPG

With the projector in the shroud, mark off where the legs contact.
Like so...
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010219.JPG

Now, you're basically going to grind away at the shroud to open it up a bit there, so it can slide all the way down. Be careful not to cut it all the way through. When finished, it should look like this..
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010223.JPG
difficult to see, but they've been opened up quite a bit.

After slightly bending a small part on the shield(this will be obvious when you try to put the shroud all the way down), everything should sit like this.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010225.JPG

[saxman]

Step 7 The shroud and projector are done for now, so set them aside. Time to work on the reflector a bit more.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010226.JPG

Inside the reflector, you'll see the bulb shield. This has to go. There's a screw holding it in, so just unscrew it. On the rear, there's the bulb retaining clip.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010228.JPG
Unscrew this as well, and toss it in the trash with the bulb shield.

Grab the masking tape again. This time you're using it to create a cutting line. Basically, you're going to try to cut this along a plane made by the three mounting legs. You want it to be as flat and even as possible, so take your time, be patient, and make sure everything is lined up.
You can see the cutting line here.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010231.JPG

Measure three times, then measure again, then cut... slowly.
Should come out this this
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010233.JPG

This will be very messy. The shroud and the projector will make a little mess when cut, but the reflector is going to get dust EVERYWHERE. Be sure to wear eye protection and some sort of dust mask.

Step 8 Shower to remove the residue from the reflector housing that is covering your body/hair/everything else.

Step 9 Now it's time to do a little test fitting.
Start with these parts.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010208.JPG
To get oriented, on the shroud, the arc part will be up, the sides and bottom are flat. On the projector, the shield should be down. The lens flips the light output, so even though with the light projects on the bottom, with the top covered, you want the bottom covered and the top open.
These parts go together like this.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010209.JPG

At this point, set the projector and shroud into the headlight housing(no reflector yet). There won't be too much room, but the shroud should sit nicely between the mounts, and the projector should be pretty much centered in the available hole. Place the reflector into the housing so the three mounting tabs are centered on where they connect(the black mounting tabs are not being used at this point... you're just lining things up). With everything sitting where you'd like it, tape the reflector to the shourd so it stays in place. Remove everything from the housing, and place the projector aside. Where it can't be seen, make some carriage marks to keep the alignment with the shroud and the reflector. Now, mix up a bit of the jb kwik. You want to put small amounts of this between the shroud and the reflector where they contact each other. Apply mild pressure for about 5 minutes, allowing things to harden.

At this point, but the projector back into the shroud, and test fit everything into the housing again. Hopefully everything fits fine. If things moved at all, you can either adjust them(you only used a tiny bit of jb kwik, right?) or trim the shroud if it's contacting the housing(I had to do this a tiny bit on one).

Now that everything fits great, bust out the jb weld, and apply to the seam. You want this to stick. After applying, let the shroud and reflector assembly sit for at least 15 hours to fully cure before you touch it again.

Step 10 Sleep... come back to this after 18 hours or so

Step 11 At this point, you're most of the way done. Before you can permanently attach the projector to the shroud, you're going to need to place the projectors on the car, and make sure everything is lined up. They don't have to be perfectly alligned, but how parallel the beam is to the ground will be determined by how you attach the projector. So, lets finish up everything else we can before getting to that point.
Grab those black clips, and place them back onto the reflector. Put the projector back into the shroud, and clip the reflector back into the housing(this involves basically clipping one clip in, then tightening the screw down half way, then clipping the other one in). The lights should be starting to look like they're closed to finished. Now, grab the rubber gromet that seals the bulb.
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010236.JPG
Now that little hole is meant to allow an h4 bulb out, not the back of the projector.
You'll have to enlarge the hole a bit, like so
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010238.JPG
Afterwords, it should fit like this
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010237.JPG

At this point, things should pretty much look like this
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010239.JPG


All that's needed to finish things off are to hook the lights up to the car, and allign the projectors so everything is level, etc. The projectors will then be attached to the shrouds, the bezels will be attached, and everything will be sealed up. Then, it's just a matter of the wiring(due to the current load required when firing the lights up, using the stock wiring isn't kosher), doing a final aim, and enjoying. I'll cover all these when the rest of my parts show up.

[Boost]

that looks like a bmw projector... am i correct?

[saxman]

it's from an audi tt, but the audi tt and the e46 bmw single xenon projectors are the same. They both use the bosch single xenon projectors

[saxman]

everything is wired up, aimed, etc... oh so sexy

http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010274.JPG
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010263.JPG
http://www.upshizzle.com/usercp/files/19/P1010262.JPG

[Fr3aKi3]

mate, top effort with the retro fit!!!

great right up as well :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

look's pretty sweet on the car