Hondata DC5 Australian delivered BETA results

[BLKCRX]

Well guys what a busy last 5 days iv had.

Thursday 6am left Melbourne, visited Croydon showing them all the DC5 equipment and catching up with the boys, then it was off to Advan to see Adrian from Toda Australia, then down to redline Motorsports (dyno dave) to make history with a JDM Honda with Hondata, tuning until 4am !

We had very successful results with the JDM type R DC5 which I’m sure you have all read about, Friday I was busy doing some other tuning, and preparing for the GTP at oran Park, where our DC5 preformed very well, the engine and power was absolute amazing according to the driver, only thing we need to do now is upgrade the suspension to give the car better handling, anyway so Saturday and Sunday I spent my days at Oran Park in Pit lane doing numerous things with numerous pit crews mainly tuning.

Anyway Monday approached and as you know we had the Redline Drag day which was unreal, but hmm grr for you guys not coming to the event and saying hello ;) you should all support days like this !! trust me there well worth the money.

Anyway Monday afternoon after the drag day, it was back to the Dyno with a completely stock Australia DC5 Australian delivered Integra.
A few hours later after we had the following results, by all mean’s these are not the final results, and are considered beta testing results, the results will only get better from here on. I believe there’s still another 2 – 5% left in the completely stock DC5 car, with further tuning but unfortunately I had 2 jump on a plane back to Melbourne, so we were left with the following results. Either way the results are very impressive, and prove that with the correct tuning knowledge, and the correct ECU, in this case Hondata, huge gains can be achieved from a totally stock Australia DC5 with tuning.

The Look on the owners face was priceless when he felt the different after going for a test drive, with huge gain’s everywhere, the car rev’s so much nicer, faster and increased throttle response and torque, etc everywhere, and this is all just from tuning with Hondata.

The first graph labelled Beta Test results no1 are under the following conditions.

Blue line = Australia Delivered DC5 Honda Integra Tuned with Hondata, with Hondata’s Air box modification.

Red line = Australia Delivered DC5 Honda Integra with Stock ECU, with Hondata’s Air box modification.

Note the Hondata Air box Modification (removes a restrictor from the stock air box allowing the engine to breath more efficiently.)

http://blkcrx.hondata.com.au/blkcrx/aust-dc5/dc5-stock-aust-web.jpg


The second graph labled Beta Test Results no2 are under the following conditions.

The JDM DC5 is completely STOCK no modifications have been done to this car apart from the ECU.

Ordered from (Top to bottom)
Red line = JDM imported DC5 Integra tuned with Hondata (Stock Air box no modification)

Blue line = JDM imported DC5 Integra with Mugen ECU (Stock Air box no modification)

Green Line = Australia delivered DC5 Tuned with Hondata (with Hondata Air box modification)

Pink line = Australia Delivered DC5 with Stock Australia ECU (with Hondata Air box modification)

Lowest Red line = Australia delivered DC5 , with Stock Australia ECU (Stock Air box no modification)

http://blkcrx.hondata.com.au/blkcrx/aust-dc5/dc5-stock-aust-jdm-web.jpg

Facts Hondata on an Australia Delivered totally STOCK car gives a increase from 100.2kw at the wheels to 121.6kw with Hondata Programmable ECU and the air box modification.

This is approximately 21% increase in power, all Hondata cars will have the air box modification done, as part of the installation process.

Pricing has not been established, as we have purely been concentrating on just results currently. I expect to have pricing and delivery dates confirmed within the next 4 weeks, until then please don’t make any assumption or ask for pricing.

Thanks to everyone who has helped so far help develop these results especially thanks to Dyno Dave from redline and also all the owners who have been helping establish results for a very long time now.

Hondata for the K engine, will support all new Honda Engines, K20A2 A3 Civic Integra euro accord etc, Hondata is the one stop final solution for all Honda owners, supplying a perfect solution to tune the widest to the most Stock engine, with amazing performance and driveability gains, Hondata in Australia will allows the end user to fully support Turbo NA and Nos modifications, the only limit is there are NO limits.

For specific question feel free to call me on 0417 875 785 or email me james@hondata.com.au


Regards James

[fueltank]

Very nice.
Can't wait to see the pricing & final tune results

[McChook]

Wonder what the Conroys will do with the Mugen ECU....??

[Integral]

Hey Matt,
Thinking of upgrading to a DC5R buy any chance??

[carbine]

excuse my ignorance but what is the difference between jdm and aus spec?

Just higher CR?

[Nuttz]

i want one!

[BlackR]

What king of power drop are we looking at for the DC5 drivetrain. would it be about 33% power loss through the drivetrain. if this is correct that would mean that K20Awill be pumping at about 180 odd Kw and about 230 - 240 Nm of torque. At the flywheel of course.

[McChook]

No one in their right mind uses % for a drop of horsepower
FWD in this regard is 45kw loss

And Peter, yes I am - Can you find me one for $25K....!!!
Actually, next year think DC2R import or SiR EF civic....

[wynode]

No one in their right mind uses % for a drop of horsepower
FWD in this regard is 45kw loss


So you're saying that if regardless of how much power you make at the crank that the output at the wheels is always 45kW less?

I think not. Its a percentage drop. May not be linear as power at the crank rises, but its definitely not a fixed kW number!

[McChook]

No one in their right mind uses % for a drop of horsepower
FWD in this regard is 45kw loss


So you're saying that if regardless of how much power you make at the crank that the output at the wheels is always 45kW less?

I think not. Its a percentage drop. May not be linear as power at the crank rises, but its definitely not a fixed kW number!

Ahh, would you like me to bring up Newton's Law.... Not Einstein, since it is not an atomic reaction.

You have a choice. Research Newton yourself, or I'll drop the payload.... And I'll drop it nice and hard

In DC5R 6speed, the drop off is between 43 and 46kw.

[McChook]

I'll start you off. The cars might be different, but the theory is not.
This is a copy and past of a post from my father from Skyline's Australia
Hope it explains it all


I know you are aware of my thoughts on engine kw (bhp) versus rwkw (rwhp) but just for those who have missed out to date....

A standard R34 GTT puts out 206 kw (275 bhp)
On our dyno that end up as 150 rwkw (200 rwhp)
ie; it looses 56 rwkw (75 rwhp)
Some people would say that's 26%
So if it now makes 295 rwkw (390 rwhp), just add 26%
Then that's 370 kw (490 bhp)

Now I don't subscribe to that logic. I believe it is a constant loss, ie if it looses 56 rwkw (75 rwhp) when it is standard, why should that suddenly increase. Energy can neither be gained nor lost (according to Newton), so where does the extra 20 kw (30 bhp) go? Not in heat, otherwise you could cook your hamburgers on the gearbox and diff. Now I know Einstein disproved that with E=MC2, but there ain’t no atomic reactions going on in my Skyline.

So I reckon it has 350 kw (465 bhp), which is about the limit for a standard internals RB25.


Some examples;
I know that an R32 RB20DET is rated at 215 bhp by Nissan
When I put one on our usual dyno they make 140 rwhp
That's a loss of 75 hp through the drivetrain, tyres rollers etc

I know that an R33 RB25DET is rated at 250 bhp by Nissan
When I put one on our usual dyno they make 170 rwhp
That's a loss of 80 hp through the drivetrain, tyres, rollers etc

The above is based on the real world results for over 20 Skylines on our usual Dyno Dynamics roller dyno. Dynos are different and different operators get different results. This is our results, but I don't believe that you can simply transfer them to someone else’s dyno. BTW hub dynos show less power loss, due to their lack of tyres, friction and rollers.

[CRXONE]

BLKCRX (james)

Hey mate do you have any figures for a D16A8???

I'm considering getting one of these. With these Hondata ecu's can you add a turbo setup??

cheers,
mark

[wynode]

I know Newton's laws........having a background in engineering means you learn that and not to mentioned Einstein (which has nothing to do with the topic because we aren't talking about partciles!). Not to mention the fact that we are talking about the consevation of energy and NOT JUST Newtons 3 fundamental laws.

But interesting fact.....something I didn't really think of. That said the drivetrain loss from the various FWD model can and does vary depending on configuration.

[McChook]

I know Newton's laws........having a background in engineering means you learn that and not to mentioned Einstein (which has nothing to do with the topic because we aren't talking about partciles!). Not to mention the fact that we are talking about the consevation of energy and NOT JUST Newtons 3 fundamental laws.

But interesting fact.....something I didn't really think of. That said the drivetrain loss from the various FWD model can and does vary depending on configuration.

The reason I always include the Einstein bit is because everyone always says Einstein disproved Newtons Laws - It therefore will always be important that I include einstein... I had a minor physics background, and would have re-written everything in my own way, but I think my father said it as simply as possible

In conclusion, as long as you understand. I think I have posted the same thing on about 8 different forums - and no one has try to disprove Newton... BUT, as long as it makes sence as to why it can not be expressed as a percentage loss and how the loss never (should) increase. I always allow for a margin of error with dynos as well

[carbine]

Gearbox power loss at increasing load can be assumed to progress linearly, because of churning friction (hydrodynamic friction) and friction in the bearings, shafts and seals that increase linearly with load applied and speed.

[McChook]

Gearbox power loss at increasing load can be assumed to progress linearly, because of churning friction (hydrodynamic friction) and friction in the bearings, shafts and seals that increase linearly with load applied and speed.

In a very minimal amount, but correct...