Are 17" illegal!?!??! [Archive]

Ru$kI

24-03-2006, 09:01 AM

I'm a little confused here, are 17" rims actually illegal on an EK1 civic? Since i read somewhere recently that you can only increase the rim size 1.5" from stock for vehicles that weigh in between 1000 - 1200 kg and 2" for cars in between 1200kg and i can't remember the upper boundary of that range (think its something like 1600kg).

Since the stock rims are 14", that means the largest i can legally go is 16"...which seems rather odd since most people go for 17" if not larger....

However I also read that the overall diameter of your tire shoudnt increase by more than 15mm...which means that if you have 205/35/17 then your sweet (since stock setup is 185/60/14)

Has anyone ever had any troubles with police or rta inspection when getting the pink slip, for having 17" wheels??? Since i gota get my pink slip in about a month....n i gotta kno if theyll pass me due 2 that....if not i have the stock wheels in my garage so ill just put them back on 4 the inspection, and put my new wheels on after...but id rather know before hand to avoid any extra headaches

Also i have blue LED parkers....I know the cops prolly wont like that 2 much if they see it, but how do the RTA inspectors fare with them?

Zdster

24-03-2006, 09:10 AM

When in doubt, speak with your local transport authority. They will be able to tell you if they are legal or not and provide you with the law rather than opinion.

In regards to the blue led's, in Victoria they are illegal.

51REK

24-03-2006, 09:23 AM

However I also read that the overall diameter of your tire shoudnt increase by more than 15mm...which means that if you have 205/35/17 then your sweet (since stock setup is 185/60/14)

This is closer to the truth, i live in Queensland and the old rule that u mentioned before this has been replaced by what i quoted above. Since you haven't increased your rolling radius you should be fine. As for the blue LEDs depends what mood the cop is in, pretty sure u can get booked for them.

Hope that helps

Matt

yourfather

24-03-2006, 09:26 AM

In regards to the blue led's, in Victoria they are illegal.

:thumbsup: got done for that on tuesday

destrukshn

24-03-2006, 09:33 AM

your allowed to go 15mm above or below rolling diameter.
and 1 inch wider.

EuroDude

24-03-2006, 09:54 AM

:thumbsup: got done for that on tuesday

hmm how about in Sydney, are the LED parking lights illegal?

marte

24-03-2006, 10:17 AM

arn't you allowed to go 2inches up from your original size. & abt the LED parking lights i don't think there illeagal, you just have to use the right LED color lights

Zdster

24-03-2006, 10:20 AM

abt the LED parking lights i don't think there illeagal, you just have to use the right LED color lights

:thumbsup: got done for that on tuesday
.....

DomenEK

24-03-2006, 10:37 AM

I'm not sure about other states, but in queensland you can have any size rim you want, just so long as the total rolling diameter of the trye/wheel combo does not change by more than 15mm from stock. And the widest you can go is 1.5 times wider than the manufacturers widest optional wheel for your vehicle. So if your car was fitted with 185s stock, then you can fit tyres as wide as 275 (but that would just be stupid).

With regards to the LEDs, Blue lights are Illegal (these are reserved for emergency vehicles only) and any red lights MUST FACE REARWARDS. I think white and amber LEDs are fine, but any other colour is illegal.

I suggest you go to the RTA website and do a search for this.

EK9_boi

24-03-2006, 11:05 AM

here check out http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/str_adrindx.aspx

Although ADR 45-55 mainly deals with lighting, nothing specific as been said concerning lighting colour (just skimmed it tho...) It may be worth getting a full text copy of these ADR's to verify... :confused:

as for rims here's the deal: (you'll need Acrobat Reader to view get it here (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html) )
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vsb/PDF/NCOP11_Section_LS_Suspension_and_steering_3Feb2006 .pdf

For other modifications, check links at the bottom of the web page below:
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vsb/vsb_ncop.aspx

The interpretation of the rules as been said before varies a bit between states and really depends on the cough pig cough, ahem! police person that you run into. If in doubt, just call your local traffic authorities and get it in black and white, that way if you are pulled over you'll at least have a piece of paper to cover your bare a$$! ;)

cheers

Ru$kI

24-03-2006, 11:22 AM

Thanks EK9_boi.....but are those laws for VIC (since your location says your from melbourne) or they apply for NSW (Sydney) as well...

With the blue LED parkers, i never drive around with them solely on anyway...unless im parked and wanna show them off 2 my mates, and when i drive around with full headlights on, you can hardly see the blue LEDs anyway.

As far as the RTA inspection for the pink slip, ill prolly replace my LEDs to stock parkers, but do you think i should replace my wheels to stock wheels as well 4 the inspection? or will they pass me even with 17"x7 205/40 wheels on?

Also I'll have Tein SS coilovers by the time ill need 2 get my pink slip, im pretty sure they're legal in NSW, as long as my ride height is above 10cm off the ground....but just 2 make sure, has anyone had any problems passing an inspection 4 a pink slip due 2 having coilovers?

I've had cops drive past my car numerous times when i had the rims on it, and no1 even looked....i guess 17" don't look that much larger than 16"...plus they dont stand out much since they're not chrome...theyr white sem-deep dish with a silver outline round the rim....so they blend in with the car pretty nice

Zdster

24-03-2006, 11:29 AM

Dotars refer to the ADR's which are Australia wide. But as EK9_boi said they change depending on which state you are in. As I said earlier, call your local state authority and they should be able to help.

Mz_Civic

24-03-2006, 11:49 AM

I use to have 17's and they were a defect. Depending on where yu go for ur pink slip depends on if they will pass it or not. Juzt go sumwhere bodgy and yu'll be right!

destrukshn

24-03-2006, 11:55 AM

i actually did call the rta nsw, and got the information from them.

EK9_boi

24-03-2006, 12:00 PM

Thanks EK9_boi.....but are those laws for VIC (since your location says your from melbourne) or they apply for NSW (Sydney) as well...

ADR = Australian Design Rules - not just VIC - they form the "skeleton" rules upon which each state build their own road rules to suit themselves.

With the blue LED parkers, i never drive around with them solely on anyway...unless im parked and wanna show them off 2 my mates, and when i drive around with full headlights on, you can hardly see the blue LEDs anyway.

lose them for the inspection, be on the safe side, they're not hard to remove.

As far as the RTA inspection for the pink slip, ill prolly replace my LEDs to stock parkers, but do you think i should replace my wheels to stock wheels as well 4 the inspection? or will they pass me even with 17"x7 205/40 wheels on?

calculate the OEM rolling diameter and your current rolling diameter - you're allowed 10% difference either way I think (somebody correct me if I'm wrong)

here's how:

Width x Aspect Ratio = Section Height

Section Height x 2 = Combined Section Height

Combined Section Height + Wheel Diameter = Tire Diameter (what you need)

---------------------------------------------

For your current tire size: 205/40R17

205mm (Width in mm) x 0.40 (Aspect ratio) = 82mm (Section Height in mm)

convert to inches, dividing section height by 25.4 gives: 3.23" (section height in inches)

next

(3.23" [section height] x 2) + 17" (wheel diameter) = 23.45" is your Tire Diameter

OEM Civic tire diameter (185/60R14) = 22.74" (same calculation)

10% more of 22.74" is 25.01", therefore you should be able to pass the test at the RTA! phew!

Also I'll have Tein SS coilovers by the time ill need 2 get my pink slip, im pretty sure they're legal in NSW, as long as my ride height is above 10cm off the ground....but just 2 make sure, has anyone had any problems passing an inspection 4 a pink slip due 2 having coilovers?

So long as the lowest part of the car ie. prob your muffler is no lower than 10cm from the ground you'll be okay!

all the best! ;)

cheers

Ru$kI

24-03-2006, 01:27 PM

Thanks alot EK9_boi....ur a champ :thumbsup: Ill give the RTA a call, but for some reason I have this feeling that they won't be too helpfull. As far as lowest part of my car.....im nowhere near to the 10cm mark...lol...hence i wanna lower, currently my car is something like 23cm off the ground at the sideskirts....need 2 check at the muffler....once the coilovers arrive....ill prolly drop it either 1.5" or 2"....drive around 4 a bit and once im happy with the height...then get the wheels aligned and leave it there :)

MZCIVIC...where did u get ur pink slip at?

Also has anyone had any problems from the RTA inspection with regard 2 coilovers?

And i know this is a little off topic, but i wanna get rid of my spoiler once my car is lowered...and was wondering how much shud i b looking at paying 2 get the holes in the boot puttied up and painted over??

Thanks all!!! :D

Mz_Civic

24-03-2006, 02:17 PM

I got my pink slip from a mechanic near bankstown

Theres heapz of places that will do it... i always find sum1 to clear my defects without changing thingz

I'll have to post a pic for yu of how low mine was on 17s! It was dropped. Now ive got 19s n im still using the same springs

EK9_boi

24-03-2006, 03:15 PM

Mz_Civic

24-03-2006, 03:25 PM

how do i post a pic lol. tell me how n il put one up over the weekend

sorry for side tracking ur thread ru$ki

ekslut

24-03-2006, 03:32 PM

Check with your insurance company as well, as they usually have rules on how big you can go too.

EK9_boi

24-03-2006, 03:32 PM

how do i post a pic lol. tell me how n il put one up over the weekend

sorry for side tracking ur thread ru$ki

Upload your photos HERE (http://www.photobucket.com) your car that is, unless you wanna show your pretty face to all the world :) .

Then copy and paste the picture file contents from that field wherever you want a pic to appear in your post.

happy posting!

cheers

Ru$kI

24-03-2006, 04:58 PM

haha.....smooth talker ay EK9_boi :p. Ye MZCIVIC...post the pics of ur ride....puttin 19s on a civic is crazy hot!

Btw, not surprised bout Bankstown being the place 2 do a dodgy inspection, hehe

Ru$kI

24-03-2006, 05:11 PM

As far as insurance....im with AAMI and they confuse the shit out of me recently. I recently got my policy updated (redid the quote thru the net n then called em up) to include my sound system and my rims...and they were sweet wiv it....now when i try 2 update again(once again get quote thru the net) saying this time i have system, rims, muffler and coilover, it says they cant offer me insurance...when i just select system and rims...they STILL say they cant offer me insurance...so like wtf!....they offered me insurance 3 weeks ago with system and rims...and now they dont!...its so retarded

civicCXI

24-03-2006, 05:57 PM

However I also read that the overall diameter of your tire shoudnt increase by more than 15mm...which means that if you have 205/35/17 then your sweet (since stock setup is 185/60/14)

So, if you have 17" with 205/35 it would be ok? Isn't the suggested tyre profile 205/40? 205/35 will reduce the speedo accuracy by 5 km/h more or less.

Captiva_Blue

24-03-2006, 09:15 PM

The 2 most important rules for NSW are these...

1. the rolling diameter for the entire wheel/tyre combination mustn't increase by more than 15mm over the largest optional wheel/tyre combination available for your specific model (CXi, GLi etc.).

2. the width of the rim must not increase by more than 1 inch/26mm over the largest optional wheel/tyre combination available for your model.

The rest of the regulations can be found HERE (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_dl1.html) on the RTA website. Download VSI 9 and read the section on alternate wheels and tyres.

To help anyone who is mathematically challenged (like me), HERE (http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html) is a JAVA calculator which lets you compare the specs of the wheels you have against the wheels you want (just put in the relevant sizes) and it will also give you an estimate of how much your speedo will be out by with the new wheel specs.

PS: To answer the original question, on an EK1, 17s will be illegal unless they are 6.5 inches wide (I'm guessing most will be at least 7 inches wide) since the stock wheels are only 5.5 inches wide...

EuroDude

24-03-2006, 10:19 PM

erm, so if I buy an Accord Euro Std with 16". can I legally put on 18" ?

Surely if the Euro Lux takes 17", the Std can take 18" no probs... ?

yourfather

24-03-2006, 11:45 PM

it depends on the placard that shows rim sizes

iamhappy46

26-03-2006, 03:13 PM

Use your tyre placard, use the above calculator and see which stock wheel/tyre combination has the largest rolling diameter.

You may find that if you have 235/45R17 as an option, you may legally fit 225/30R20's!! They have exactly the same rolling diameter and would be perfectly legal in NSW.

I have 215/70R15 as an option on my Nissan X-Trail, therefore, I could fit 255/35R20 and be 4mm larger rolling diameter.

Basically, if you keep a tyre phamphlet in your car that shows the the stock tyre diameter and the new tyre diameter that proves they are legitimate, along with a printed out copy of the above RTA ruling, the RTA/Police/Pink Slip inspectors should leave you alone for tyre/rim defects.

Ru$kI

27-03-2006, 10:16 AM

so the only way to have 17" on legally is to have the following combo??

17"x6.5" (1" wider than stock) with 205/35/17 rubber(overall diameter few mm smaller than stock)

Regardless....im prolly a bit screwed since i can't just bullshit and say stock rim width is 6" (when its 5.5"....although im not 100% sure)...which makes 17"x7" legal, and that my 205/40/17 are within 15mm over stock diameter....when in reality they are 20mm over stock diameter.

In saying that, while driving the cops cant exactly see the width of your rims, and they will surely not be able to notice a 5mm difference in my rolling diameter, hence ill just hope i dont attract too much attention to my car.

iamhappy46

27-03-2006, 11:06 AM

I have known a guy that had a new tyre placard sticker made up to 'legalise' the rims he wanted to run...

Mz_Civic

27-03-2006, 12:24 PM

Heres a pic of my car.... cant really see the wheelz dat well but theyre 19z. i'll try n find a side on pic

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f296/MZCIVC/MZCIVC.jpg

Ru$kI

27-03-2006, 12:47 PM

haha...that thing is PIMPIN!! hey.... 2 enter autosalon...can any1 do it? or do u hav 2 get ur car analysed by a panel of judges r sumfn....coz i wuldnt mind taking my car next year...once its all done it will be one hell ov a cruzr ;)

EK9_boi

27-03-2006, 01:09 PM

Great ride you've got that mzcivc, shiny!

haha...that thing is PIMPIN!! hey.... 2 enter autosalon...can any1 do it? or do u hav 2 get ur car analysed by a panel of judges r sumfn....coz i wuldnt mind taking my car next year...once its all done it will be one hell ov a cruzr ;)

anyone can if they pay that is - judging by the quality of some rides, I don't think you'll be hassled by the judges if you just make minimum effort! ;)

Don't get me wrong, there are some NICE rides there too! Isn't that right Mzcivc? (btw, that's just a running joke...nothing serious here!)

cheers

Mz_Civic

27-03-2006, 01:15 PM

Thankz for the commentz! Still some more thingz 2 b dun 2 it. But yea... itz my baby

Yea like EK9 Boi said... anyone can enter.

fusionprelude

27-03-2006, 01:31 PM

you can hav what ever size rims you want but u just hav to get an engineers cert and recalibrate your speedo

Mz_Civic

27-03-2006, 01:40 PM

Wat do yu mean yu need to recalibrate ur speedo?

I dont kno anyone whoz done that

EK9_boi

27-03-2006, 01:53 PM

Wat do yu mean yu need to recalibrate ur speedo?

I dont kno anyone whoz done that

Having bigger rims or really, just different sized rims & tire combo from that of OEM alters the speedo reading - that's to say with larger rims (than OEM), you're actually going slower than what the speedo shows. Smaller rims (than OEM) would conversely mean that you are going faster that than what the speedo shows on the dial.

Recalibration eliminates the disparity between road speed and the speed indicated on the speedo! ;)

cheers

iamhappy46

27-03-2006, 05:23 PM

Got that the wrong way around...

With larger rims, 100K's on the speedo will be 100+ road speed, resulting in a speeding fine much easier...

For speedo claibration places, call the RTA or ask a Taxi company where they get their speedo calibrated.

Paine & Townsend in Grafton NSW is one place that I know of, that can recalibrate your speedo.

Also, an engineer can certify and tyre/rim combination legal if it passes safety criteria and the speedo is calibrated to suit.

Captiva_Blue

27-03-2006, 06:30 PM

Also, an engineer can certify and tyre/rim combination legal if it passes safety criteria and the speedo is calibrated to suit.

you can hav what ever size rims you want but u just hav to get an engineers cert and recalibrate your speedo

That's actually not right. An engineer can certify anything up to a point but not beyond that...

This is what the RTA's VSI 9 says regarding wheels that require an engineer's certification

There are limits on the size of wheels that can be certified by a signatory. These limits are as follows:

Rear wheels

The maximum permitted rear rim width for a particular vehicle is determined by its unladen weight (10 litres of fuel, no occupants or luggage) in accordance with the following:

up to 800kg rim width increase allowed of 26mm (1inch) 801-1200kg rim width increase allowed of 39mm (1.5inches) 1201kg and over rim width increase allowed of 51mm (2inches)

Front wheels Front wheels shall be:
• No wider than the maximum permitted for rear wheels on your vehicle or 204mm (8 inches).
• No narrower than 70% of that fitted to the rear wheels.
• No narrower than a standard wheel fitted to the your vehicle as original equipment.

Front wheel drive vehicles

Except where the original manufacturer provides to the contrary, front wheel widths shall be no more than 26mm greater than the widest optional wheel offered by the vehicle manufacturer. This requirement also applies to fourwheel drive vehicles with constant front wheel drive.
I would advise anyone interested in this topic to thoroughly read the RTA's Vehicle Standards Information Sheet 9 so you know exactly what the rules are otherwise you could end up getting nicked at a defect station or worse, being involved in a crash and finding out that your insurance in void because you were driving a defective vehicle.

iamhappy46

27-03-2006, 08:09 PM

Captiva_Blue

27-03-2006, 08:50 PM

If the engineer certifies the vehicle as passing certain criteria(like clearances around the wheel/not rubbing on body or suspension parts) then the car becomes legal... Make sure the engineer writes down the wheel and tyre package.

If the insurance company ever cancels your policy after an accident for mods approved by the engineer, the engineers public liability or relevant insurance is required to pay the claim. Is one reason why engineers cost so much, they have to pay their insurance premiums!

Read the VSI 9, what you are saying isn't accurate according to that document. There are definite limits to what an engineer can certify in terms of aftermarket wheels. They are not just bound by wheel clearances and rubbing issues (in NSW anyway)... This is the same thing that I've been told by the RTA technical advice line and 2 engineers.

panda[cRx]

27-03-2006, 10:31 PM

ok i barely even read the first post but this question has popped up a few times so i pasted my reply from an older thread. prolly restating things already said but sue me:p

as posted earlier the regulations on replacement rims in VICTORIA are:

- must not be more than 25mm greater than the widest wheel specified by the vehicle manafacturer for that model or model series.

- must not be less than the width or the narrowest rims specified by the vehicle manifacturer for that model or vehicle series.

- the overall diameter of any replacement rim and tire must not be more than 15mm less than the smallest diameter tyre specified by vehicle manifacturer for that model or vehicle series

- the overall diameter of any replacement rim and tire must not be more than 15mm greater than the largest diameter tyre specified by vehicle manifacturer for that model or vehicle series

i cant be bothered typing out the rest but you can find it here: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/rdsafe/vsi%208.pdf

if you have any queries on the legality of your car i suggest search your states rta website or give them a call.

Ru$kI

27-03-2006, 10:34 PM

--- The maximum permitted rear rim width for a particular vehicle is determined by its unladen weight (10 litres of fuel, no occupants or luggage) in accordance with the following:

up to 800kg rim width increase allowed of 26mm (1inch)
801-1200kg rim width increase allowed of 39mm (1.5inches)
1201kg and over rim width increase allowed of 51mm (2inches) --

So according to the above and everything that has been said so far...this is what i understand.

1. my current 205/40/17 setup is illegal for 2 reasons
a) exceeds allowed 15mm excess in overall diameter by 5mm
b) exceeds allowed 1" excess on rim width by .5"

2. This can be made legal by getting an engineering certificate since
a) my car falls in the 801-1200kg bracket where rim width increase allowed of 39mm (1.5inches)
b) overall diameter can be made within 15mm excess by having 35 profile rubber

OR

if engineer deems that 205/40/17 setup is fine even though it exceeds overall diameter limit by 5mm, and writes it on the certificate.

However i still have a few questions to verify the max optional tire size & rim width available to ensure i actually do NEED the engineers certificate 2 certify all is legal

1. where can i find the tire placard on my car?
2. where can i find the door jamb on my car?

iamhappy46

28-03-2006, 09:30 AM

Check your Owners manual for the rim/tyre combinations that can be used on your car.

Ru$kI

28-03-2006, 09:35 AM

Ye it shows different variations, and states that they are the only "recommended" options for rim/tyre.

for rim the largets option is 15 x 6 JJ....hav no idea wat JJ stands for

for tire its 195/55/14

Regardless...i just called one of the engineers in my area. He said for the rims/tires, coilovers, plus exhaust, it'll be $500....i think ill just pay it and get it over and done with and drive with some peace of mind, since id imagine if i just get coilovers + exhaust covered in the certificate, itll be like $100 difference or so, so its not worth it if i get defected for them at the end newai.