recommend any turbo parts? [Archive]

n/a

27-03-2006, 02:23 AM

AusS2000

27-03-2006, 08:10 AM

I have some RC Eng 550cc injecotrs for sale in the Parts forum.

LVNIT

27-03-2006, 08:18 AM

hey guys, looking to source parts to make a turbo setup for a ZC motor.

you guys recommend any parts to use in a setup for around 110-120kw w/ stock internals?

i've been looking at:

Short Manifold
T3/t04e turbo
Tial 38mm wastegate
Greddy E-manage/Hondata S300
DSM 450cc injectors
AEM Uego Wideband

keeping in mind i don't really know much about turbo setups how am i going so far?

Manifold
Turbo
- What size is the one your looking at?
Wastegate
- IF your turbo has an internal gate, you wont need this
E-manage/Hondata
- Emanage works well, but the Hondata will be better
DSM 450cc Injectors
- dont go for second hand gear, new ones can be had for relatively cheap prices
Wideband
- Is a nice tool to have, but you dont need it

You also need

Intercooler and associated piping
Oil lines
Water lines
Air filter
Blow off valve, either plumb back or external venting
Exhaust

Off the top of my head thats all you need, might of missed something though;)

MR-VTEC

27-03-2006, 08:29 AM

i suggest you do some research, there are sooooo many threads around on turboing hondas

here is a great one for the beginners - it is a basic setup and a installation article, most of your questions should be answered in there;)

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1263795

saxman

27-03-2006, 09:29 AM

I wouldn't go with a t3/t4 turbo personally. For the power range they're capable of, there are far more responsive turbos out there.

how much power do you want, etc

ditch the emanage idea... it's crap compared to hondata

for injectors, again, how much power do you want.
Also, I personally use dsm 450's on my car, but if I was going to do it again, I'd head over to tunertoys.com in the states and buy some of their injectors.

for a wideband, why not save some money and go to wb02.com?

kris_

27-03-2006, 10:40 AM

If your only looking for around 120kw atw, i would go for a T3 from an R32, just get it rebuilt and you'll have a fresh BB turbo for under $500.

As for ECU, dont go the E-manage, if your budget is in Hondata territory, I would also consider a microtech LT8s. These are great computers with proven results. Im currently installing one on my turbo B16.

Like LVNIT said, you'll still need a cooler, piping, and few more bits and pieces. If you go a Microtech, dont worry about the wideband.

Also think about upgrading your clutch.

PM me for a cheap price on a microtech. ;)

ProECU

27-03-2006, 11:30 AM

I never knew the R32 T3 was a BB.

I'd also lean towards an external wastegate, they tend to hold boost levels much better than internal gates.

yourfather

27-03-2006, 11:38 AM

I thought that R32 turbos were ceramic, and ball bearings were brought out in the later 33/34 GT-R's

kris_

27-03-2006, 12:13 PM

no im pretty sure that R32 and VL turbos are ball bearing.

R33 turbos are ceramic.

The factory Turbocharger on a Nissan Skyline R32/33 GTS-T is a Ball Bearing, T3 sized unit, with a ceramic turbine wheel.
Straight from GCG

yourfather

27-03-2006, 12:25 PM

yeah but what you just posted from GCG says that 33 GTS-T's are ball bearing too.

kris_

27-03-2006, 12:35 PM

and....

I didnt say they werent.
I just said they were ceramic which they are.

n/a

27-03-2006, 01:36 PM

thanks for the reply.

i'm not sure about what turbo to use.. whether to go brand new or a 2nd rebuilt one.. saxman perhaps you could recommend some decent turbo's for me to look into. i'm looking at around 110-120kw (160hp) every day driving. i may want to crank the power to around 140-150kw (200hp) but that's if i can run it with stock internals.

Wastegate : i would like to have an external wastegate. + what proecu is saying :thumbsup:

E-manage/Hondata : i was leaning more towards the Hondata, so maybe Hondata is the way to go. or perhaps the Microtech?

DSM 450cc Injectors : do i need 450cc injectors for a under 200hp setup? i was thinking more so the 400cc

Wideband : guess i won't be getting that then!

You also need : i didn't want to cut into the nitty-gritty, just the main things that make a difference in turbo setups. but thanks for that :thumbsup:

n/a

27-03-2006, 01:43 PM

also, do i need to change my fuel pump?

i can't remember where but i read that i don't need to???

LVNIT

27-03-2006, 03:01 PM

No you dont have to change the fuel pump.

I disagree about the Internal wastegate, all the cars I have owned and seen which have used them, have not had a problem holding boost. If you are running high boost, then I would be more inclinded to use the external gate, each to their own I guess.

ProECU

27-03-2006, 03:06 PM

fair comment. For small boost its not really an issue, however, if you're pushing the envelope on a stock motor at relatively high boost for the setup, it won't take much of a boost spike to hurt the motor..

Personally, I wouldn't and don't leave it to chance. I use a Tial gate.

LVNIT

27-03-2006, 05:03 PM

Yeah I know what your saying :) All comes to how much money the person has I guess

Weq

27-03-2006, 05:23 PM

with my td04, the internal wastegate sucked. Never held boost well. over the ~3psi above spring pressure.

saxman

27-03-2006, 06:03 PM

for that kind of power, I'd run a t28 or a smaller t3(50 or 60 trim)... a t3/t4 is WWWAAAYYYYY too big for that... it'll be a pig.

I really wouldn't worry about an external gate for those levels personally... I've always ran internal gates and never had a problem. It's when you start trying to up the boost that you start to have issues in my experence.

n/a

27-03-2006, 07:51 PM

Weq

27-03-2006, 09:53 PM

i'd still prefer the waste gate, if the option is there why not pay a little more for it.

t28? roll one off the S15??

about time you replied Weq! :wave: if you had the chance to start from the start what would you use for under 200hp on stock internals?

WHat would i run? I loved every minute of my greddy kit.
Your goal is 120kw right? i have to set a target HP before anything.

Assuming this, budget setup.
log manifold
t25g \w internal gate
small frontmount, 2" piping
440cc injectors
emanage or s200
cam gears to help dial in the overlap.

For more then that. the beauty of running a t25g setup is u are gonna get spool hard from 2.5k. Get an awsome sound and make enough power to keep u happy. Its enough of a turbo to blow up any D.

If u want to spend more money, then look at different manifolds or turbos.
GT287x, GT25x series
equal length manifolds

You have to remmber though, this setup is maxed out. No room to upgrade.. This is the way i like it though.

saxman

27-03-2006, 09:56 PM

t25 will definetely max out around there... reason I suggested the t28 is to allow at least a little wiggle room...

while you'd hit those power numbers on a t25, no problem, you are going to be dying off in the top end, and we all know how much honda owners love their top end.

n/a

27-03-2006, 10:11 PM

very interesting. yea rather than the expensive t28 i was thinking a t25 would be more practical for my application and also cheaper to get.

would it be possible to run a shorty over the log mani? as i would like my a/c :p

in that setup that you listed what is the main limiter? would it be the turbo? internal wastegate? intercool size? reason being is that is the ideal setup that i would like but who knows i may want something more power down the track.. gotta hate greed..

Weq pm sent :wave:

saxman

27-03-2006, 10:26 PM

you're more likely to be able to retain a/c with a log than with a shorty

with a t25, that's definetely going to be your limiter. If you go for a larger turbo, you're limit then is likely to be the stock internals of the engine.

And with a turbo, you'll always want more, so plan accordingly.

n/a

27-03-2006, 10:39 PM

And with a turbo, you'll always want more, so plan accordingly.

well said :thumbsup: only if it were that simple..

safeway for my engine w/ stock internals sounds like the setup Weq mentioned..

saxman

27-03-2006, 10:41 PM

I'd go with a slightly larger turbo personally as price wise it really won't be that different and it will allow you a bit more growth later on. That said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a t25... it was the first turbo I purchased for my car.

n/a

27-03-2006, 10:57 PM

do you suppose the T28 maybe the better option, as it leaves room for an upgrade in the future?

saxman

27-03-2006, 10:58 PM

that's why I suggested it earlier ;)

ideally, I would go with a gt28rs if I was in your shoes... but they're not the cheapest of turbos

n/a

27-03-2006, 11:13 PM

that's something i don't have.. $1,650.00..

and don't need.. Output Range 250-320 horsepower..

saxman

27-03-2006, 11:16 PM

well, like I said, that's an ideal turbo for that situation

if you want something cheaper, a t3 60 trim can be had for like $350 with all new internals

a t25 isn't a bad turbo, just realize if you want to go further, it'll need to be changed

n/a

27-03-2006, 11:32 PM

would i be wrong to assume that the t25g will be more responsive than the t3 60 trim turbo?

saxman

27-03-2006, 11:38 PM

t3 would have a bit more lag than the t25, but have quite a bit more top end

kris_

28-03-2006, 01:39 PM

my t3 isnt vey laggy, it starts to spool early on (being BB) and full boost is reached just after 3k.

saxman

28-03-2006, 01:50 PM

never said it would be a laggy turbo... but compared to a t25, it will spool a bit later

ProECU

28-03-2006, 02:41 PM

All i'll say is that you need to determine your target rpm range and go from there.
All this turbo talk is so subjective, how about actually applying some science ???

saxman

28-03-2006, 03:04 PM

All i'll say is that you need to determine your target rpm range and go from there.
All this turbo talk is so subjective, how about actually applying some science ???
bah! where is the fun in that

n/a

28-03-2006, 04:01 PM

well i still gotta decide on the t25g or the t3/t4 hybrid..

but since the t3/t4 will be costing a whole lot more than the t25g, i guess i'll have to settle with the t25g..

n/a

28-03-2006, 04:19 PM

i've been looking at the Hondata S200.

found that they can be picked up for $295 for the Base s200 system
which gives you:
*Datalogging
*3- step rev limiter
*speed limiter removed (if applicable)
*tunable fuel and ignition tables
*expanded rpm fuel & ignition tables
*VTEC control
*adjustable rev limiter.

they also have additional options:
*3 step rev limiter- Launch control and full throttle shift. (which is pretty cool :cool: )
*Boost capability. Needed for turbo or supercharged applications
*Datalogging capability. Required if you want to tune it yourself (optional upgrade on systems purchased before 12/13/04)
*ROM Editor V3 (requires datalogging). Required for tuning yourself.
*Romulator realtime emulator.
*Programmer (requires ROM Editor V3) Required for tuning yourself.

it may seem pretty obvious what additional options i need, but can someone point out what i SHOULD get as upgrades to the S200?

thanks.

saxman

28-03-2006, 04:33 PM

or you can use uberdata, which is free, and offers all of those options

n/a

28-03-2006, 04:37 PM

Weq

28-03-2006, 05:55 PM

a cooler is a cooler IMO. that will be sweet.

s200 is good. uberdata sucks, take my work for it...

ProECU

28-03-2006, 05:58 PM

2" inlet/outlets are too small, but for the price you can't complain.

I agree with saxman, people un USA use uberdata with success, keep in mind its not idiot proof, which is why a lot of people here have issues with it.;)

saxman

28-03-2006, 06:00 PM

I've used uberdata on dozens of cars, including my own, and never had a problem with it... it's just a tool... you can poorly tune a car with uber, just like you can poorly tune a car with hondata

and a cooler isn't a cooler... there's a lot of science that goes into picking a proper sized cooler. when you're doing a budget set up though, price is the biggest factor.

n/a

28-03-2006, 06:04 PM

so to uberdata or not to uberdata? i sure could do with the free FMI. :)

and a cooler isn't a cooler... there's a lot of science that goes into picking a proper sized cooler. when you're doing a budget set up though, price is the biggest factor.

proper sized cooler? what size would i be looking for for my setup? (160hp @ 6-8psi)

VTC-8OY

29-03-2006, 12:36 AM

also found a universal intercooler (narrow type):
Bar and Plate 550 x 140 x 65 - 2" inlet/outlet. $149 from justjap.

http://www.justjap.com/parts/new/intercoolers/intercooler55014065.jpg

rubbish or good item?

These intercoolers are good, i won mine from ebay from justjap for $99 but the size higher to that, 550 x 180 x 65. Also, for that setup 2'in/out is fine, with u looking towards running 6-8psi that intercooler is perfect.. these intercoolers are just as good as the good ones, least they have the curves on the end for better flowing unlike most cheapo coolers..

n/a

29-03-2006, 01:00 AM

thanks buddy! why the hell is cooler piping so expensive.. bloody $450 for the cooler piping..

how am i meant to mount this cooler?

ProECU

29-03-2006, 08:14 AM

I dont think you should be doing a turbo conversion if you're asking these basic questions.
Get someone to help you

n/a

29-03-2006, 08:19 AM

I dont think you should be doing a turbo conversion if you're asking these basic questions.
Get someone to help you

thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated but well what else is there to know? i have a hp aim, i know what turbo i'll be using, fuel management, mani, injectors etc..

i was just wondering about that particular cooler because i've seen mounting brackets on others but i can't see any on that one.

ProECU

29-03-2006, 08:54 AM

either get some made up and welded on by someone who can weld aluminium.

too easy.

saxman

29-03-2006, 09:21 AM

easiest way to determine if it's going to be a good intercooler for you is to ask them what the pressure loss is at 300cfm.

and 2" pipes are going to be fine. With 200hp, you're looking at an air flow around 230 ft/sec, far from the point where the velocity is too high and causes undo drag. In fact, it isn't until you step down to a 1.5" pipe that the air velocity at 200hp becomes too high.