CF Bonnet or Engine damper??

[EK Civic R]

Hey all..

I'm thinking between CF bonnet or engine damper for my EG...
I'm more into performance than looks and I have heard real good things about engine damper from friends who have it in there car...
But then my bonnet is a bit twisted and has a few rust spots and wouldn't mind losing a few kilos with a cf bonnet...

What you guys think???

[yourfather]

well, if you have a crappy looking bonnet fix that first.

[bennjamin]

both are BLING items - in other word , do hardly anything and just look good :)

Id spend $$$ of a CF hood as its a decent amount of weight off your front ~ if u have newish engine mounts whats the point in a damper ? Just get a new aftermarket rear engine mount.

[Phamburger]

Well i dunno much abt dampers, but in regards to the bonnet it does shave weight off the OEM one.

What ben sed is true, CF bonnet does have a BLING FACTOR and there annoying to keep clean if u park outside "oxidisaction" (however u spell it).

But the looks sweet i recon, CF on Civic :thumbsup:

[tinkerbell]

a CF bonnet also very slightly improves handling...

[**Ghost**]

curious about the handling improvement... noticeable or theoretical? or is it one of those "i paid so much so it must be better" placebo effets

[tinkerbell]

hmmmmm, i have never heard that lowering a cars centre of gravity actually made handing worse? have you?

[mugeneration]

lowering the weight on your car reduces the amount of inertia it holds when travelling. As this is reduced, it becomes easier to change direction (thankyou year 11 physics! lol).

ie. It handles better and is easier to turn. Though if you ask me for some guys theyre better off taking that money to the gym and shave that weight off their ass.

[tinkerbell]

Though if you ask me for some guys theyre better off taking that money to the gym and shave that weight off their ass.

lol, yes, maybe!

but even better handling improvement would be going from heavy 17in chromies to lighter 15in alloys... (not that i know what rims you have EK Civic R!!!)

[Nuttz]

btw CF bonnet is illegal

[tinkerbell]

btw CF bonnet is illegal

reason? source? which state?

under what legislation?

[KWICKS]

reason? source? which state?

under what legislation?
Its illegal in NSW at the very least. Reason is the CF bonnet is made from a material that is so much stronger than aluminium or steel that it will not bend in a crash and defeats the purpose of the car's designed crumple zones, removing safety. It may shatter and reduce resistance to an impact increasing the forces in the crash or it may hold in one piece which could be worse - it could then come straight through the firewall or windscreen and decapitate the driver. Its also flammable.

That said, my trouble and strife works for SP Systems - they make highly advanced composites for racing yachts (1st and 2nd in Sydney to Hobart, 1st and 2nd in Australian 18' skiffs, and 1st in worlds 18' skiffs), aircraft, and pleasure boats. They did a test composite bonnet for a Porsche that competed in Targa Tasmania last year, and subsequent to that have been in negotiations with HSV about doing composite boot lids.

I wouldn't go down the CF bonnet route for a road registered vehicle in NSW. Just get the full bonnet CF lookalike stickers or paint it black like every other ricer does and put the money into suspension mods for improved performance.

[DC5TYPER]

Skip both do suspension. I've got a CF Vented Bonnet. Great for track day to keep the temp down and in summer. Looks tough too but not as important as suspension, especially in a older gen cars.

[JasonGilholme]

Its illegal in NSW at the very least. Reason is the CF bonnet is made from a material that is so much stronger than aluminium or steel that it will not bend in a crash and defeats the purpose of the car's designed crumple zones, removing safety. It may shatter and reduce resistance to an impact increasing the forces in the crash or it may hold in one piece which could be worse - it could then come straight through the firewall or windscreen and decapitate the driver. Its also flammable.

That said, my trouble and strife works for SP Systems - they make highly advanced composites for racing yachts (1st and 2nd in Sydney to Hobart, 1st and 2nd in Australian 18' skiffs, and 1st in worlds 18' skiffs), aircraft, and pleasure boats. They did a test composite bonnet for a Porsche that competed in Targa Tasmania last year, and subsequent to that have been in negotiations with HSV about doing composite boot lids.

I wouldn't go down the CF bonnet route for a road registered vehicle in NSW. Just get the full bonnet CF lookalike stickers or paint it black like every other ricer does and put the money into suspension mods for improved performance.

Thats bullsh!t.

Why do you think they started making F1 cars out of Carbon fibre instead of alluminium. Its stronger, lighter and when its pushed to its breaking point it has better crumpling properties then aluminium.

I cushions your impact better then anything else i've seen.

If it passess on the track under such tight safety regulations it should be able to be passed for our roads.

Are CF Bonnets legal in QLD??

[KWICKS]

Thats bullsh!t.

Why do you think they started making F1 cars out of Carbon fibre instead of alluminium. Its stronger, lighter and when its pushed to its breaking point it has better crumpling properties then aluminium.

I cushions your impact better then anything else i've seen.

If it passess on the track under such tight safety regulations it should be able to be passed for our roads.

Are CF Bonnets legal in QLD??
You're clearly a dickhead. Evidence above.

The track use of carbon fibre in F1's is purely for aerodynamics, the cockpit is made of an aluminium reinforced spaceframe and is the structural component of the car. The panels all disintegrate and fly off on impact in F1 crashes but the cockpit stays in one piece. As for track use justifying road use that's just ignorant. The track has run off areas with sand/gravel traps, solid concrete walls lining it with no trees, on-coming traffic or power poles to contend with. Nothing like the street from a safety perspective.

Pull your head out of your arse JasonGilholme. :thumbdwn:

[tinkerbell]

Its illegal in NSW at the very least. Reason is the CF bonnet is made from a material that is so much stronger than aluminium or steel that it will not bend in a crash and defeats the purpose of the car's designed crumple zones, removing safety.

can

you

provide

a

source

to

back-up

your

comments

please?

[mugeneration]

Thats bullsh!t.

Why do you think they started making F1 cars out of Carbon fibre instead of alluminium. Its stronger, lighter and when its pushed to its breaking point it has better crumpling properties then aluminium.

I cushions your impact better then anything else i've seen.

If it passess on the track under such tight safety regulations it should be able to be passed for our roads.

Are CF Bonnets legal in QLD??

THey use it coz its light, as well as strong. Its also not metallic and doesnt cause sparks if it scrapes along the road (which can lead to explosions). Also, F1 cars are not designed to have crumple zones like regular cars. There are plenty of racing approved mods out there which are illegal.

That being said, i think i heard that you CAN find bonnets which are DOT approved. I think if you get an engineers certificate for it its ok. But with all this money being thrown around you're better off putting it into something else.

[tinkerbell]

what is a Porsche GT made out of KWICKS?

[JasonGilholme]

You're clearly a dickhead. Evidence above.

The track use of carbon fibre in F1's is purely for aerodynamics, the cockpit is made of an aluminium reinforced spaceframe and is the structural component of the car. The panels all disintegrate and fly off on impact in F1 crashes but the cockpit stays in one piece. As for track use justifying road use that's just ignorant. The track has run off areas with sand/gravel traps, solid concrete walls lining it with no trees, on-coming traffic or power poles to contend with. Nothing like the street from a safety perspective.

Pull your head out of your arse JasonGilholme. :thumbdwn:

Gee mate sorry for incorrectly re-iterating something i heard on the discovery channel 3 years ago!!!

Im not a dick head. Was just saying what i've heard.

[bennjamin]

Was just saying what i've heard.

THIS is the 1st most common casue of CRAP in forums the world over.
Saying vaugley what you heard here and there - the peopel YOU heard THAT off ALSO heard the same "vauge" info too. So , how can your info be correct at all ?

As Tinkerbell said , DO NOT SPREAD FALSE INFORMATION OR INFO YOU JUST CANNOT BACKUP ! Use our forum and DONT misguide people ok ! If you dont 100% know , either link it or shut up :)



BACK on topic.
As i initially said , and Tinkerbell expanded on - a CF hood is a decent amount lighter than stock , reducing the weight above the front end significantly increases steering response.
Off the top of my head it is because weight at the top of a objects mass is more influencial in movement than say middle or lower sections.

[JasonGilholme]

So isn't the discovery channel a reliable source now.

[yourfather]

Its illegal in NSW at the very least. Reason is the CF bonnet is made from a material that is so much stronger than aluminium or steel that it will not bend in a crash and defeats the purpose of the car's designed crumple zones, removing safety. It may shatter and reduce resistance to an impact increasing the forces in the crash or it may hold in one piece which could be worse - it could then come straight through the firewall or windscreen and decapitate the driver. Its also flammable.

JUST TO POINT OUT.

If you are hitting a pedestrian in a road accident hard enough to bend metal, they're dead anyway.

[STTICH]

both are BLING items - in other word , do hardly anything and just look good :)

Id spend $$$ of a CF hood as its a decent amount of weight off your front ~ if u have newish engine mounts whats the point in a damper ? Just get a new aftermarket rear engine mount.


so much confidence.

hav u tried the damper before? ie: comparing changing engine mount Vs adding engine damper.

[bennjamin]

So isn't the discovery channel a reliable source now.

its a generalised statement mate :) Aimed at you , and all others in this thread to calm down :)
BTW ~ since when does an american show have any influence on ADR's represented in this country ? IMO (no , not that i "heard it") Im sure more than anything , CF is "illegal" because it dosent meet ADR requirements.


so much confidence.

hav u tried the damper before? ie: comparing changing engine mount Vs adding engine damper.

its IMO ~ not what ive heard. The items for sale to the usual consumer hardly are worth it. People change engine mounts etc to harder materials 10 times more commonly than this engine damper. Apart from cost. they know it would probably last alot longer than a small boot strut holding the engine.
IMO :)

[KWICKS]

http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vsb/PDF/NCOP6_Section_LH_Body_Modifications_3Feb2006.pdf

Check this out for evidence. Sections 2.7 and 4.3 are most relavent to this subject (to save you reading the whole thing). In a nutshell pre 1971 vehicles can have fibreglass or other composite material panels as replacements, but post 1971 vehicles must comply with ADR 69/00 about frontal impact collisions. Essentially no car crashed in test situations is allowed to project the windscreen or dash towards the occupants and that is why CF bonnets fail.

[egSi]

this forum makes me laugh.


id go a cf bonnet man :thumbsup:

[T-onedc2]

Seeing as there's been no discussion in regards to the engine damper I'd suggest considering the extra engine vibration transferred to the chassis, in particular the cabin comfort. Fine for the track but may be considered a little intrusive for a street driven car.

Comments?

[KWICKS]

Today, 10:31 PM
KWICKS
This message has been deleted by bennjamin. Reason: no more. Keep it to pm.

:confused:

I've made the most valid, supported point here and you delete my posts? I'm sorry but I thought your role was to facilitate forum participation. I would have emailed you but you have this feature turned off. I offered an alternative mod to an illegal one for appearance only (no weight saving granted) at significant saving. The post that should have been deleted is the one based on hearsay. You can delete this too once read as it was intended for your eyes only.

[bennjamin]

Nice sig JasonGilholme

Is hardly on topic , mate. You "expanded" on points myself and others have already said.
Point is , its covered and verging on bitching so as i said ~ "keep it to pm".



ANYWAY - as T-onedc2 said - does anyone here run a engine damper on a daily basis ?
I woudl think they are MORE harsh than any mounts could be (since holding the max point of leverage?!) , and wouldnt last as long ?

[mugeneration]

JUST TO POINT OUT.

If you are hitting a pedestrian in a road accident hard enough to bend metal, they're dead anyway.

dunno about that. Car metal bends pretty easily. I think anyone whos had a minor 'incident' in their cars, or has had something dropped on their bonnets (like i have :wave: ) will tell you that stuff bends pretty well. The idea is that it can make the difference between sever injury or death.

[tinkerbell]

http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vsb/PDF/NCOP6_Section_LH_Body_Modifications_3Feb2006.pdf

Check this out for evidence. Sections 2.7 and 4.3 are most relavent to this subject (to save you reading the whole thing). In a nutshell pre 1971 vehicles can have fibreglass or other composite material panels as replacements, but post 1971 vehicles must comply with ADR 69/00 about frontal impact collisions. Essentially no car crashed in test situations is allowed to project the windscreen or dash towards the occupants and that is why CF bonnets fail.

no, that is NOT why carbon fibre bonnets "fail".

it is ONLY why carbon fibre bonnets not tested are illegal.

once tested they CAN be legal...

make sure you reveal all the parts to the puzzle KWICKS - then you can call people dickheads...

for example:

Mazda RX7 SP (Series 6)

is imported into Australia, yet has a OEM carbon fibre bonnet?

[tinkerbell]

oh and JasonGilholme - check your neg. post quality score in regards to your signature...

[KWICKS]

no, that is NOT why carbon fibre bonnets "fail".

it is ONLY why carbon fibre bonnets not tested are illegal.

once tested they CAN be legal...

make sure you reveal all the parts to the puzzle KWICKS - then you can call people dickheads...

for example:

Mazda RX7 SP (Series 6)

is imported into Australia, yet has a OEM carbon fibre bonnet?

These are factory equipped and as such not subject to the laws governing the modification of light motor vehicles that I quoted. As an absolute you could argue that CF bonnets can be made legal, but you would need an engineer to sign off on it after an equivalent planar sheet of the same CF material was tested in a NATA certified laboratory in Australia, and then still need it to undergo a frontal collision impact test to determine if the material forced the dash back on to the occupants as per ADR 69/00. That cost is prohibitive and it is why no-one has yet done it - even the suppliers/manufacturers of these products - so it is in effect illegal. By all means our modifier should put up the readies and pay for all of this testing so the mod can be legal in NSW and do all the hard work for eveyone else to follow in those footsteps. As it stands this mod cannot guarantee the safety designed into the car will not be compromised and is therefore illegal. I'm done making this point now. :)

[tinkerbell]

As an absolute you could argue that CF bonnets can be made legal,

i.e. your "reasons" stating why they are illegal in post 12 are inaccurate...


Reason is the CF bonnet is made from a material that is so much stronger than aluminium or steel that it will not bend in a crash and defeats the purpose of the car's designed crumple zones, removing safety. It may shatter and reduce resistance to an impact increasing the forces in the crash or it may hold in one piece which could be worse - it could then come straight through the firewall or windscreen and decapitate the driver. Its also flammable.

[tinkerbell]

the only "reason" they are illegal is that they are usually not tested under ADR69...

not becasue of any inherent properties of carbon fibre, as you have suggested...

[KWICKS]

I know a little about these products through exposure, but I'm done arguing. They look good, save weight and are not *proven* to reduce safety IN AUSTRALIA (google UK data ;) ). So go and get one. Never know your luck - they may register you in QLD or TAS.

[socheerio]

Today, 10:31 PM
KWICKS
This message has been deleted by bennjamin. Reason: no more. Keep it to pm.

:confused:

I've made the most valid, supported point here and you delete my posts? I'm sorry but I thought your role was to facilitate forum participation. I would have emailed you but you have this feature turned off. I offered an alternative mod to an illegal one for appearance only (no weight saving granted) at significant saving. The post that should have been deleted is the one based on hearsay. You can delete this too once read as it was intended for your eyes only.weird

[EK Civic R]

A lot comments..

hehe.. I had my car inspected once at RTA station and I asked the guy who was checking my car.. He said cf bonnet isn't illegal coz its not really a safety measure..
So pretty much his saying it's just a lid for your engine.. Maybe he doesn't know what his talking about..

anywayz, back to topic.. I got B18C in my EG so the reason for cf hood was to reduce some of the weight gained by the bigger engine at the front.. But I have heard a lot of good things about engine damper from people who have used it.. They all seem to say the same thing - "Its real value for money"

[tinkerbell]

But I have heard a lot of good things about engine damper from people who have used it.. They all seem to say the same thing - "Its real value for money"

so what does it actually do?

it is not common for honda's to use them...

[KWICKS]

A lot comments..

hehe.. I had my car inspected once at RTA station and I asked the guy who was checking my car.. He said cf bonnet isn't illegal coz its not really a safety measure..
So pretty much his saying it's just a lid for your engine.. Maybe he doesn't know what his talking about..

A car bonnet is a safety feature for certain. An engine must have a bonnet to cover fans (motor and alternator) to protect against injury from these moving parts (interestingly as long as these are protected a hot rod does not need to have a bonnet but it must be presented for registration without the bonnet for inspection). As to what the bonnet is made out of, the reinforcements under the panel lid form part of the crumple zone design and increase the strength of a metal bonnet. Whether a CF bonnet does this remains to be tested in Oz.

[Sir_vtec]

sh*t... i ve got one due in few days. so can someone definitely tell me if the cf hoods are illegal or legal? in nsw that is.

dam i dont want to have to go call the bloody rta to check. shoulda thought before buying...

[tinkerbell]

call RTA 1300 137 302

this is the direct line to teh Technical Regulations centre, so these guys know their stuff...