[Euro] 114.3 Pcd wheel but have problem

[ngupil]

My friend has a 114.3 pcd wheels. The funny thing about this wheel is that when he put it into his euro, the wheel doesnt align correctly, similar like if you put a 19" wheel on the car and you lower it, and the rear wheel will not allign straight. i think you call this negative chamber? correct me if i'm wrong. but the funny thing is that it also happen to the front wheel as well. as a result all of the bolts are bent. anyone know why?

[yfin]

My friend has a 111.3 pcd wheels. The funny thing about this wheel is that when he put it into his euro, the wheel doesnt align correctly, similar like if you put a 19" wheel on the car and you lower it, and the rear wheel will not allign straight. i think you call this negative chamber? correct me if i'm wrong. but the funny thing is that it also happen to the front wheel as well. as a result all of the bolts are bent. anyone know why?

hey - can you find out more about the rims - ie size and offset?

[ngupil]

hey - can you find out more about the rims - ie size and offset?

size is 19", offset is +37
the wheel is at firesport http://firesport.ipspace.com/?section=item&action=show&id=48684

spammer banned? lol :)

[euro77]

I'm sure you meant 114.3 pcd as in the title and not 111.3 pcd as in the post?
Is your friend's car lowered?
I can't be sure why the bolts were bent, probably because the offset is too low that it became unbalanced and eventually bent the bolts. I assume the bolts were bent after your friend drives the car, not straight after the wheels are installed?

rear wheel not align straight can be negative/positive camber (this is vertical alignment we are talking about). Negative camber is when the top part of the wheel is closer to the body and the bottom part of the wheel is further from the body. Positive camber is the other way around. If it's horizontal alignment, it's called toe in and toe out. Refer to this for more info http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html (see section: Caster, camber, alignment and other voodoo)

[yfin]

size is 19", offset is +37
the wheel is at firesport http://firesport.ipspace.com/?section=item&action=show&id=48684

spammer banned? lol :)

Yeah that is a crap size for the Euro and they are heavy rims - but I still have not heard of the bolts bending. Did your friend check that the rims spin true and balanced before mounting them?

[ngupil]

what do you mean by spin true ??

[ALN]

I don't think it because of the chamber your bolts are bent, chamber only affects the tire wear. It must be something else you might check out if the rims is in proper shape or got bent.

[SiReal]

HUB CENTRIC RINGS!!!!! If u dont have them, you need to have the wheels torqued on correctly, or else the bolts will bend and fail in due time, as well as potential rim failure. Ensure the hub on the car and the hub on the wheel align perfectly. should be a tight snuggle fit. Acts as a "middle-man" between the car hub and rim.

Reason why we should have Hub centric rings is because ALL the weight of the car, kerb whatever...is usualy transfered to the wheel hub, and not the bolts, and if after market rims are used, the rim itself will have a larger hub (so it can be used on more car brands). If there is a gap, then the weight naturally goes to the bolts. Hence bending.

They arent expensive...

eBay link. check out what they do and get measurements before you buy them as well. An example...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HUB-CENTRIC-RINGS-RING-CENTRIC-ACURA-HONDA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42614QQitemZ80515 37781QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

That might be the problem.. hope that helps anyway

[yfin]

I don't think it because of the chamber your bolts are bent, chamber only affects the tire wear. It must be something else you might check out if the rims is in proper shape or got bent.

Not entirely true - excessive camber (which +37 is for this vehicle IMO) puts huge stress on suspension components. Add to the equation heavy and WIDE 19" rims and you have more than just potential tyre wear.

Assuming these rims are ok (ie not damaged etc) I think maybe the nuts were not torqued properly. Or the weight could be an issue (but a few other Euro owners are running heavy 19" chromies and haven't had this problem).

Sireal 's point about fittment is a good one - if these rims don't sit on the hub properly it will cause uneven strain on the bolts. Did your friend notice any vibrations when driving with these rims ?

I would take the car to a tyre dealer and get them to look at the problem. Keep us posted please .

ps i think it also goes without saying that those rims are an illegal fit for the Euro (at least in victoria).

[ngupil]

Thank you guys for the input. I'll try to put it in my car first, and see what happens. if it still doing negative chamber on all four wheels and its vibrating, i'll take it to the tyre shop, coz my house is just 300 meters away from beau repairs. if there is nothing wrong with it, i just gonna buy it :) i just want to make sure that i make the right purchase decission :)

yfin, why do you say that it is ilegal fit? in Vic we can upsize the rim upto 2 inches. euro luxury has 17 inches. So, increase wheel size by 2 inches should be in the legal limit. My friend even insure his 19" wheels with RACV. if it is illegal, RACV wont insure it for sure. another thing, i dont think the bolts were not torque properly, as the mecanics that he went to, was using the hydrolic bolt tightener thing.

sireal, this is maybe a dumb question, but will the hub centric rings will increase the offset for the wheels? the wheels are already nicely fit if you put it into a euro. the size, the looks, the offsets, everything. if the hub centric rings increase the wheel's offset, i'm worried that the car will look funny, as the wheels gonna be out of the body (i hope u guys understand what i mean :) )

i'll give the wheel a try this weekend or next weekend, and see what happen, and i'll keep u posted

[SiReal]

hey hey, hub centric rings are not spacers. dont get them confused. they wont push the wheel out. They fit in the "indent" on the alloy wheel face (the face that mounts the actual car hub)

[yfin]

yfin, why do you say that it is ilegal fit? in Vic we can upsize the rim upto 2 inches. euro luxury has 17 inches. So, increase wheel size by 2 inches should be in the legal limit. My friend even insure his 19" wheels with RACV. if it is illegal, RACV wont insure it for sure. another thing, i dont think the bolts were not torque properly, as the mecanics that he went to, was using the hydrolic bolt tightener thing.

Firstly, RACV is not going to tell you whether ANYTHING is legal. It is YOUR obligation to make sure everything on the car is legal and roadworthy. They are not in the business of making sure your modifications are legal. Secondly, the diameter of the rim is not everything. You are increasing the WIDTH of the rim more than 25mm compared to the widest wheel specified by Honda for the Euro (7 inches). That rim width and tyre sizes (different front and rear) are not in accordance with the Tyre and Rims Standard Manual for the Euro (go to any tyre shop and look at it). Offset is varied beyond limits. Do you need me to go on? :D

Speak to Vicroads if you don't believe me. I don't care one way or the other whether people fit illegal sized rims. All I want to make sure is that people make an informed decision.

[Tobster]

Plus, if your wheel sticks out past the guards, it's illegal in ANY state. Offset is important -- and if it does stick out too far it definitely will put excess strain on the bolts.

[ALN]

yeah maybe because of the hub is not centered with the rims. I had shaking problem over 120km/h and I fixed it by putting center ring on it.
Using wide rims and low offset on euro will looks more VIP luxury likes japanese VIP car but got consequences as the handling not as great as the proper size one and it will got excessive chamber to fit into fender which leads to tire wear and something else, yeah but sure it looks great. That's depend on your preference but the proper size in term of width of the rims and width of the tire will get much better performance handling and tirewear.

[drdrei]

Almost sounds to me like the wheel was in contact with something when you put it on, ngupil. Did you check to make sure you had some clearance with all the suspension components? If not, you've tightened the wheel nuts when the wheel wasn't sitting flat on the hub and then bent the wheel studs.

If you don't understand the importance of PCD, offset, rim width and tyre/wheel clearance from the body work then go to a tyre shop. Basic safety first.

[ngupil]

safety is always number 1 for me. without disrespecting yfin, i dont really care about the legal side of it, coz i believe most of the people that do mods on their car are most likely already break the law :) anyhow, thanks for the input yfin. as far as i can remember, we already have thread about legalities in mods. i'm aware that i'll break a little bit of law here, but as long as it is within the 'certain limit' and doesnt endanger anyone, i guess its alrite tho.

i'll try to try the wheels on the weekend if i have spare times, and i'll post once i know the result.

[yfin]

ngupil - go for it man. It is your car. I just wanted to make sure you know the position before you hand over the cash. ;)

[Tobster]

safety is always number 1 for me. without disrespecting yfin, i dont really care about the legal side of it, coz i believe most of the people that do mods on their car are most likely already break the law :)
Car legality issues can generally be broken into 2 categories: safety (including pollution) and noise. Anything to do with wheel sizes, offset, how low is your car, etc. are all safety issues.

[ngupil]

Just want to let you know guys that I already put on the wheels today, and it looks great. my friends successfully persuade me to buy the wheels, despite my worries that the studs will bent and break *touch wood*. so, i think i its safest to buy hub centric ring now. anyone know where to buy one in melb areas?

EDIT: Forgot to mention this. I just realized that the rims are not heavy compared to other wheels that I know of. I think they weigh around 15 kg max including tires with 38ppi pressure. do u guys categorize this wheel as heavy, or average?

[yfin]

EDIT: Forgot to mention this. I just realized that the rims are not heavy compared to other wheels that I know of. I think they weigh around 15 kg max including tires with 38ppi pressure. do u guys categorize this wheel as heavy, or average?

Are you sure of that weight? I thought my forged 17" rims with tyres weigh 15kg (or 15.5kg?) and the stock 16" with tyres were 18kg - although it was a long time ago and maybe I have forgotton.

[ngupil]

Are you sure of that weight? I thought my forged 17" rims with tyres weigh 15kg (or 15.5kg?) and the stock 16" with tyres were 18kg - although it was a long time ago and maybe I have forgotton.

pretty sure, coz i can lift them up easily with 1 hand
any suggestion where can i get hub centric ring??

[yfin]

pretty sure, coz i can lift them up easily with 1 hand
any suggestion where can i get hub centric ring??

dude- lifting them is not weighing them! Use a scale. I'll eat my shorts if your 19" cast rims weigh less than forged 17".

You can get hub rings on ebay. That is the best value.

[PNR888]

15kg per wheel including tyre is extremely light wheel for any passenger car wheel.
You are right yfin, Stock 2003-05 stock 16" incl tyre weighs about 17kg. any 17" and 18" will add another kilo or two at least (For cast wheel).

Unless your 19" is Ultra high performance, track orientated forged rim, otherwise it is unlikely your rim/tyre combo weigh only 15kg.

For 19" cast rim + tyre, 20plus kg is more reasonable figure.

Let us know the weight when you have a chance to weigh it on the scale. Thanks