iPod Integration

[Saracen]

Hey guys,

I currently have:

http://www.users.on.net/~saracen/headunit+stacker.JPG

It's all original Honda.

First off, Honda doesn't provide any ipod integration kits like some other car manufacturers, right? So my only option is to go third party.

I wanna keep costs down, so I'd like to change as few components as possible.

As it stands, the stacker connects to the head unit through AUX, so is there something I can get which I can swap for the stacker and instead connect the ipod through AUX?

Any other suggestions?

[DomenEK]

How does the stacker connect to the HU - as in does it use rca plugs?

If so, there are "rca to 3.5mm headphone jack" cords easily available at your local Tandys/Dick Smith/electronics store...

[Saracen]

I wouldn't have a clue how it connects to the head unit. No doubt if it is just an rca connection (which I doubt because the head unit can also control the stacker), then there'd be no problem.

So, being just the factory stacker, would anyone happen to know how it connects to the head unit?

[mugeneration]

this should be in the audio section to get the best answers. Honda doesnt currently make an ipod connector to fit your HU (to my knowledge). Your best bet if you want to use that HU is to do what DomenEK said.


You wont be ablt to buy another brand's ipod connector as they only work with their own brand HUs.

[Saracen]

You're right. Sorry.

Can a mod please move it there?

[CTR Coupe]

moved to audio.
Hopefully you get some more help here :)

[ICACHA]

FM Modulator :)

[DomenEK]

FM Modulator :)
A good idea, but I have heard of issues with these, as in interferance, poor sound quality, etc...

[EuroDude]

Since its a 2001 car, its possible the IceLink Adapter could attach to it. Thats if the CD Changer connector is the same as teh one on my Euro HU.

http://www.dension.com/main.htm

Give these guys a call and ask them about compatibility (AUS): http://www.thecarkitcompany.com.au/

[ICACHA]

A good idea, but I have heard of issues with these, as in interferance, poor sound quality, etc...

Did you realise that Saracen is going to be listening to an i-pod? :confused:


MP3 or any other compression format is not concidered as an Audio format. Once you compress (original) or steal music (internet) you loose the dynamics, escentially the quality of the recording (not that music today is recorded with any) so your comment above is invalid :)

I've used many FM modulators, best go for the Jaycar one which sells for under $100 and is a copy of the Clarion by the looks of it. You will also need a cable with a 3.5mm stereo plug and 2 male RCA's on the other end, the RCA's plug into the FM modulator and the headphone jack plugs into the i-pod, problem solved. If you dont think thats the best option, im afraid you aint got any others unless you spend money on changing the head unit that controls an i-pod interface, then your talking proper connections.


btw, the fm modulator doesnt loose signal so to speak like the radio stations if you go behind a building, its a direct connection via the antenna leads :thumbsup:

[DomenEK]

Did you realise that Saracen is going to be listening to an i-pod? :confused:
Really, I did not realise that.

OF COURSE I DID SMARTASS! :wave:



MP3 or any other compression format is not considered as an Audio format. Once you compress (original) or steal music (internet) you lose the dynamics, essentially the quality of the recording (not that music today is recorded with any) so your comment above is invalid :)
Really, I did not realise that.

OF COURSE I DID SMARTASS! :wave:

I was simply stating that I had heard about some of the mentioned problems with FM transmitters....



I've used many FM modulators, best go for the Jaycar one which sells for under $100 and is a copy of the Clarion by the looks of it. You will also need a cable with a 3.5mm stereo plug and 2 male RCA's on the other end, the RCA's plug into the FM modulator and the headphone jack plugs into the i-pod, problem solved. If you dont think thats the best option, I'm afraid you haven't got any others unless you spend money on changing the head unit that controls an i-pod interface, then your talking proper connections.
Or you can spend maybe $150 on the Denison Ice link (http://www.dension.com/icelinkplus.php) and use the Ipod as a CD stacker through just about any HU (as far as I know), with the bonus of charging/running the Ipod off the car's power.




btw, the fm modulator doesnt lose signal so to speak like the radio stations if you go behind a building, its a direct connection via the antenna leads :thumbsup:
So it differs from an FM transmitter then?





BTW - your spelling and grammar is terrible :)

[mugeneration]

FM transmitters are the devil. Pure and simple. If you're just listening to it at low volumes in a stock system theyre fine, but theyre the enemy of a good sound system. Low volume, noise, and radio station interference are just some of the downsides. And my iTrip is a POS, it just de-tunes itself every now and then, i have to plug it back into my computer to fix it!

[Saracen]

I don't like the sound from fm transmitters at all. I was hoping to go for a direct line solution. ie not transmitted through air.

Thanks for the link to that Ice>link Plus, looks like exactly what i was after! but at $449.00 for a full install it's a bit much for just an ipod adapter.

[EuroDude]

I got mine for $240 and installed it myself - its easy to do.

Just plug it into the HU's CD changer connector (make sure your HU is compatible with the Honda IceLink connector), route the icelink wire through the dash somewhere and mount it. You need to get a mount that is compatible with your dash. Cant remember where u get them, but search ozhonda for "icelink mount"

[ICACHA]

Really, I did not realise that.

OF COURSE I DID SMARTASS! :wave:



Really, I did not realise that.

OF COURSE I DID SMARTASS! :wave:

I was simply stating that I had heard about some of the mentioned problems with FM transmitters....



Or you can spend maybe $150 on the Denison Ice link (http://www.dension.com/icelinkplus.php) and use the Ipod as a CD stacker through just about any HU (as far as I know), with the bonus of charging/running the Ipod off the car's power.




So it differs from an FM transmitter then?





BTW - your spelling and grammar is terrible :)


having a bad day are we?

[ICACHA]

I don't like the sound from fm transmitters at all. I was hoping to go for a direct line solution. ie not transmitted through air.

Thanks for the link to that Ice>link Plus, looks like exactly what i was after! but at $449.00 for a full install it's a bit much for just an ipod adapter.

you can always buy some headphones, much cheaper than fm mod. or i-pod adaptor :)

[ICACHA]

FM transmitters are the devil. Pure and simple. If you're just listening to it at low volumes in a stock system theyre fine, but theyre the enemy of a good sound system.

you do realise mp3 isnt any better?

[mugeneration]

yeah mp3 suck, but you see with an FM transmitter your taking the suckiness of mp3 and making it worse by reducing the sound quality even further.

BTW, its illegal to drive with headphones in.

[EuroDude]

If its a 192kb/sec+ variable bitrate mp3 then its very hard to hear any difference from uncompressed CD Audio.

But the problem is, 90% of everyones mp3's are crappy 128kb/sec or lower quality (downloaded from P2P most likely), some using a bad encoder, or some that have been recompressed from an existing compressed format like WMA/ACC, or even ripped off CD using Analog via the sound card instead of using direct ASPI data ripping.

[ICACHA]

If its a 192kb/sec+ variable bitrate mp3 then its very hard to hear any difference from uncompressed CD Audio.

want to put your money where your mouth is on that sentence above? :wave:


But the problem is, 90% of everyones mp3's are crappy 128kb/sec or lower quality (downloaded from P2P most likely), some using a bad encoder, or some that have been recompressed from an existing compressed format like WMA/ACC, or even ripped off CD using Analog via the sound card instead of using direct ASPI data ripping.

You been reading too much false information about what the companies claim about MP3. :confused:

[ICACHA]

yeah mp3 suck, but you see with an FM transmitter your taking the suckiness of mp3 and making it worse by reducing the sound quality even further.

BTW, its illegal to drive with headphones in.

i know its illegal :D im just sh!t stirring :wave:

[DomenEK]

If its a 192kb/sec+ variable bitrate mp3 then its very hard to hear any difference from uncompressed CD Audio.
want to put your money where your mouth is on that sentence above? :wave:
I agree with EuroDude - for the average punter, yes it is a tad difficult to hear any noticeable difference between 192kb/sec variable bitrate mp3 and uncompressed CD.

[ICACHA]

I stand by what I said, there is a noticable differnce between what people claim is CD quality compression (<-- that word "compression") from MP3 or what ever format you want to record it in which is not an audio format and uncompressed (<-- that word "uncompressed) audio which funnily enough is what most of us that enjoy our music and know that it is a full resolution recording,

Yes if your buying todays mainstream music (Top40) you will get no dynamics in the recording. Yes you will not notice much of a difference between Top40 uncompressed and MP3 compression at 192kbps. Unless you have an aquired taste for real music which comes in the form of Norah Jones, Dire Straits, Jann Arden, Michael Buble, Diana Krall and many others, but then I did for a minute forget that I am preaching to the converted who already know compressed doesnt sound much different from the original recording *cough* :wave:

Doesnt matter, as long as you're all happy with the way the I-Pod sounds thats all that matters, at least I know I wont be going up against an I-Pod or a carputer in Sound Quality competitions :p

[DomenEK]

Hey, I'm satisfied with it.

The sound quality may not be as good, but it's not terrible, and it has the added bonus of not having 60 CD's floating around in the car, and doesn't skip when I go over a bump.

And the average punter isn't going to enter into any sound-off competitions, so why argue this point? Getting back to the original point of this thread, there are many options around for Ipod integration into the stanard HUs.




Unless you have an aquired taste for real music which comes in the form of Norah Jones, Dire Straits, Jann Arden, Michael Buble, Diana Krall and many others....

At least you have some decent taste in music.

[EuroDude]

Ok if you compare a WAV to a 192kb MP3 at your Desktop PC using good quality headphones, then you may notice a small difference. The treble may be a bit lower or something if you really concentrate. Man ive got good ears and expensive seinheiser headphones and I found it very hard to differentiate a wav with a 192kb vb file encoded with LAME or Fraunhofer, even more so with ACC (MPEG4 Audio).

But when you are driving, it all sounds the same since there are road/engine noises in the mix.


Remember that mp3/acc basically removes the sounds the human ear cant hear, so its not completely compressed as much as you think it would be. :thumbsup:

[ICACHA]

eurodude and domenek, i have send you both a PM with a link, please have a read it will broaden your thinking into MP3's.

And remember, I didnt say that I-Pod wasnt any good, only MP3 :)

[EuroDude]

Nice article!

So basically what they are saying is that the iPod produces excellent audio output, and those 128kb mp3s u downloaded from the net wont sound very good due to numerous reasons (bad source/codec). But if you encode your own CD's to 192/256kb mp3 using a decent encoder, then the mp3's will sound good in a car system, and will sound even better if using ACC (mpeg4), and may actually sound better than a CD player in a headunit if using apple lossless or uncompressed wav thanks to the iPods DAC.

quote:
128kbps mp3s are not exactly high-quality audio, but they are not all that bad either. Compared to your average car stereo system you will barely know the difference.
People who love their music though will encode their music in at least 192kbps or 256kbps. This does result in larger files, but it is much better sound quality. It is still lossy, but even to a well trained ear, the differences are minimal.

My argument is, that 192/256kb mp3 is acceptible in a car system. For a decent Hifi or when using quality headphones, its another story. 128kb is IMO not acceptible in a car system unless maybe if the Fraunhofer mp3 codec is used.



With my iPodVideo->IceLink->HondaHU system:

Music Video's sound crap since they are heavily compressed
Most of the 96kb/128kb mp3's downloaded from the net sound terrible
My own 192kb variable bitrate mp3's sound brilliant (using LAME) - pretty much the same as a CD.
Havent tried ACC/MPEG4 yet, but a 192kb ACC should sound the same as a CD, and a 128kb ACC should sound the same as a 192/256kb mp3

[ICACHA]

mpeg4 apparently is better than all other compression, from what ive heard. but none of my very expensive equipment plays mp3's nor do i wish to listen to compressed so-called-audio :p full resolution wav (i.e. original cd) for me thank you very much :)

[EuroDude]

yea mpeg4/acc is awesome, compared to wav I couldnt notice any difference at all on my PC using seinheiser headphones :thumbsup:


luckily 1/4 my audio collection is in acc format, just gotta dump it to my ipod when I get a chance :)

[Saracen]

Guys guys, its ok. The big audio companies need people like ICACHA to buy their money-making gear and spend ludicrous amounts of money on extra power and wider frequency ranges.

ICACHA, the ear is fine tuned to perform best at picking up human speech. We can only hear sounds roughly between 20 - 20,000 Hz, with the best performance coming in between 300 - 3000 Hz. Now don't get me wrong, these figures are by no means constant from person to person, and there are other factors involved like age, experience and even genes.

However, I find it difficult to digest that in a car with all that extra noise, you would seriously be able to discern between only the cleanest source of music and a ~256kbps VBR mp3.

[ICACHA]

Saracen, you might want to close your windows and sound deaden your car regarding the comment about noise inside the car.

Oh I forgot your only listening to MP3 :p

And those companies you speak of, they dont actually make much money on the expensive head units, how many do you think they will sell in a year? not many. they will sell more of the "whats your cheapest head unit that plays MP3" to people like you than they will sell the top end units to people like me :) think about what your saying, ive been in the car audio industry now for little over 17 years and know what stores sell more of. :wave:

You can buy an amp and a pair of speakers from me and it will only set you back about $24,000 AU Dollars :) taking orders now :p

Really, I buy what I want and what suits me, now if I can afford more than the average Joe then I'm not going to appollogise now am I?

Just cause I want to have equipment that suits me for 1. sound quality and 2. for the ability to tune the system then thats what I will buy as i-pod nor i-river will never be able to give me those tuning capabilities now will they?

[EuroDude]

However, I find it difficult to digest that in a car with all that extra noise, you would seriously be able to discern between only the cleanest source of music and a ~256kbps VBR mp3.

:thumbsup:

mp3 has come a long way since it was introduced.

I think ICACHA's view on mp3 quality has been soured by bad experiences with poor 128kb CBR incar music. I used to think the same until I starting encoding in 192kbVBR

Play a 256kb VBR file and its WAV source on a decent mp3 player and try to pick which one is mp3.


Even if you do have super human ears and can spot the difference, you should be concentrating on the road, not trying to fault the quality of the music :p

[Saracen]

Saracen, you might want to close your windows and sound deaden your car regarding the comment about noise inside the car.


I find it quite frightening that you seem to be so willing to completely segregate yourself from the outside world while driving. I would hate to be anywhere near you when that ambulance or fire truck comes speeding down from around the corner.



Oh I forgot your only listening to MP3 :p


Once again, your completely ignoring all the arguments myself and others present to the validity of mp3s and other compressed formats. I'm beginning to wonder if it's an ego thing.



And those companies you speak of, they dont actually make much money on the expensive head units, how many do you think they will sell in a year? not many. they will sell more of the "whats your cheapest head unit that plays MP3" to people like you than they will sell the top end units to people like me :) think about what your saying, ive been in the car audio industry now for little over 17 years and know what stores sell more of. :wave:


I wasn't limiting my comment to only car audio. If you're hearing is really that good then quite frankly I'm suprised you haven't been snatched up by some organisation so that your super human abilities could be further studied.



You can buy an amp and a pair of speakers from me and it will only set you back about $24,000 AU Dollars :) taking orders now :p


I wonder how much of that extra fidelity, broader range, and increased power I would enjoy from such equipment. At least I could rest assured that my pet dolphines, whales, bats, dogs and snakes could all fill me in on the parts I'm missing out on.



Really, I buy what I want and what suits me, now if I can afford more than the average Joe then I'm not going to appollogise now am I?


Nobody here is asking you to apologise, and yes you are free to spend (or waste) your money however you see fit.

[ICACHA]

Im also a motorcycle rider so I'm use to keeping my eyes moving, yes I do use mirrors :p

with all due respect, i was pointing out how crap mp3 and other compression formats are not that it wasnt good for people to own an mp3 player.

well i know my hearing is good. dont know about everyone else listening to cranked music or loud exhausts where you cant hear the music in the car.

i enjoy it very much, at least i dont have to sit here trying to work out that i want to download to an ipod for example or where to find it once i jump in my car and want to listen to a particluar track that is buried somewhere in the memory of the ipod or equivalent player. i know whats on the disc as its got the track and title listed by numerical order :p

glad you agree with my habits in spending money :)

[EuroDude]

Thats why you use iPod playlists ;)
btw I played Apples ACC format with a few ripped CD's, damn it sounds good :thumbsup: Better than 128kb mp3 thats for sure. Not much different to 192kb VBR mp3 though

If you still dont like compression, why not get a 60GB iPod and use WAV.

60GB / 700MB = 85 CD's (1700 songs). No more CD swapping :thumbsup:

[ICACHA]

i know cd swapping is teadious, but if and when i attend sq competitions i cant use HDD, even thou at full wav resolution to complete :( plus the difference of playing back with 24bit (yes i know its like 1bit when driving) when competing is much better than the resolution of the mass media storage unit at possibly 1bit :)