ecu which one do you uses?

[Mr.Pen]

just our of interested, im wondering what ecu you turbo honda people are running?

are you just using something like a safc/emanager piggyback system?
or do you go for a full system
or romtune?


cheers Mr.Pen

[Q_ball]

plenty of threads about this mate
plz search!!

http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30354&highlight=ecu

http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20575&highlight=ecu

[Slow96GSR]

AEM EMS for me. My friend Steve was Greddy E-Manage- got it free that's why! Few others have AEM EMS or Hondata, most want the AEM EMS though. Just my data.

[saxman]

uberdata... love it... was the best money I never spent

[poid]

uberdata here as well, also love it

[superR]

does uberdata operate as realtime tuning ?

[saxman]

does uberdata operate as realtime tuning ?
depends on what hardware you have... with just a chip burner, no, because you have to burn a chip and swap it everytime you change something, but if you have a romulator, like the moates.net ostrich, yes, it can

[Surrufus]

ill be using an apex'i safc or safc2
but im only running mild boost, no more than 9psi

[saxman]

9 psi is 9 psi too much to be running an afc


timing control is just as important as fuel control, and using an afc to tune a turbo motor does a wonderful job of giving you horrible fuel control and no timing control.

Further more, with software like uberdata out there, if you don't want to spend a lot of money on engine management, there are wonderful options. An afc is likely to cost you as much or more than uberdata, and is SSSOOOOO far inferior.

[kris_]

Microtech LT10s for me

[Mr. Focus]

where can you pick up this uberdata??

[saxman]

it's a free software... you can findout everything you need to know and more between here

http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/

and the forums on pgmfi.org

[Mr. Focus]

well, this bit of information counts me out right away:


First, you must make sure your ecu is an OBD1 (came in 1992-95) Honda Civic/Integra ECU

[saxman]

it's plenty easy enough to deal with...

but if you want to stay obd0, check out turboedit... similar concept

[Surrufus]

9 psi is 9 psi too much to be running an afc


timing control is just as important as fuel control, and using an afc to tune a turbo motor does a wonderful job of giving you horrible fuel control and no timing control.

Further more, with software like uberdata out there, if you don't want to spend a lot of money on engine management, there are wonderful options. An afc is likely to cost you as much or more than uberdata, and is SSSOOOOO far inferior.
what would be sutiable for an EK1 running 9psi?
keeping in mind im on a relatively tight budget

[saxman]

I would convert to obd1 and run uberdata personally... including the conversion, it probably will cost a little more than the afc, but it'll be a lot cheaper than buying a new engine

[Weq]

run an emanage if ur ODB2. uberdata is not something any n00b can just do. Trust me on this one.

[saxman]

run an emanage if ur ODB2. uberdata is not something any n00b can just do. Trust me on this one.
true, although it wouldn't be hard for him to find a map of someone with a cimilar set up to use, which although not ideal, would still be FAR superior than what most people do with an afc

[AusS2000]

AEM EMS for me. Amazing stuff. Has features I could never imagine using.

[alan]

autronic here

[FastFwd]

I Recently converted my 92 civic hatch to b16a2 and Turbo'ed it. i read up on soo many forums in the US, how using a vafc or a vafc 2 would be fine to tune my car with roughly 6-8 psi. Well i was extremely wrong for listening to them.

vafc should not be used for any Turbo application. it is deffinatly Runnable but it is not very safe for your motor.
a
i was lookint doin my turbo on the budget but theres no such thing. when you put the turbo in your car, be prepared to spend money.

i'm in the process of buying a Power FC for my motor. i cant be bothered stuffing around with anything Sh$#%y anymore.

If your lookin at buying a Vafc 2 tho im selling mine.

[Q_ball]

Welp, if no one is backing me up in telling this guy to search, lol - I USE A MICROTECH LT8 :p

[FastFwd]

whats the LT8 like. i was going to go with a microtech insted of a power FC. i just thought the power FC would be a bit easier?

[wlee2]

autronic here


Autronic here as well

Sup alan ^_^..

[kris_]

i also use a microtech, but the LT10s, same as Q Balls, just a newer version.
Its the same price.

Microtechs are very good ecu's and many people use em in turbo honda applications including myself.
They have and absolute sh*tload of support available so they are one of the better options.

Or you could go an Autronic which has plug n play for honda but its a lil more $$$.

But make sure you research and use somethin that is proven.

[AusS2000]

The AEM is a seriously good ECU. The main advantage is that if they make one for your car it is plug and tune. No mucking about with sensors and wiring. And all the options are available. No extra licenses to buy like with Motec.

The downside however is that there are very few people here with experience with them.

[Weq]

i run hondata btw. ive previously run uberdata, chrome and an emanage, but the s200 is my choice for thr complete package/balance :)

[saxman]

I Recently converted my 92 civic hatch to b16a2 and Turbo'ed it. i read up on soo many forums in the US, how using a vafc or a vafc 2 would be fine to tune my car with roughly 6-8 psi. Well i was extremely wrong for listening to them.

vafc should not be used for any Turbo application. it is deffinatly Runnable but it is not very safe for your motor.


out of curiosity, what us forums were you on? a few years back everyone seemed to think vafc's/fmu's were ok, but these days, especially with the prevelance of uberdata/crome, a lot more people have seen the light. If you get into the turbo specific us forums, I think you're bound to find a lot more usable info on that route than just some of the generic car club sites.


i run hondata btw. ive previously run uberdata, chrome and an emanage, but the s200 is my choice for thr complete package/balance :)


out of curiosity, what is it that made you switch to hondata? available support? people around to tune it?

[Weq]

out of curiosity, what is it that made you switch to hondata? available support? people around to tune it?

yes, yes.

also i found everything else buggy. had to do things in certain ways otherwise it wouldnt work. i also wanted realtime tuning so i was using the ostrich emulator. i spent days trying to get them to work reliably with it. In the end, TIME is money. No tuner wanted to give me a good price on a EMS that would need chips constantly burnt for each parameter change. I am no tuner and didnt want to risk my motor, so i went hondata and was happy with how everything went. Defaintly worth the money in my case.

These wernt the only points. Other stuff like datalogging i found easier and more reliable with hondata. Maybe i am just dumb? I thought my background as a software developer would come in handy, but all i could do is spew at the interface design and architectural desicisons made by owners.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/loxy/car/turbo/head/ecu.jpg
http://users.bigpond.net.au/weq/ostrich.jpg

[FastFwd]

out of curiosity, what us forums were you on? a few years back everyone seemed to think vafc's/fmu's were ok, but these days, especially with the prevelance of uberdata/crome, a lot more people have seen the light. If you get into the turbo specific us forums, I think you're bound to find a lot more usable info on that route than just some of the generic car club sites.




out of curiosity, what is it that made you switch to hondata? available support? people around to tune it?

www.hondacivicforum.com

alot of guys had told me that using the vafc should be ok

[AusS2000]

Are they prepared to guarantee your engine? I thought not. Beware of internet experts (except me, you can trust me ;) ).

Seriously, you have to know how the V-AFC works to understand why it may not be good enough. All it really does is falsify the MAP signal in the hop that if it tells the ECU there is more air the ECU will add more fuel. FIne within limits, but on the newer ECUs if the air signal is too high (such as under boost) the ECU goes into limp mode.

There are ways of fudging it with a VAFC. You can turn up the fuel pressure (or use a rising rate regulator) so there is always mor than enough fuel, and then only use the VAFC to pull fuel. But that is a kludge using a mechanical and electronic trickery fighting against each other to tune your expensive engine.

The other problem is that if your ECU used closed loop tuning it will adjust things to try and hit the AFRs it was set to in the factory before you put a turbo on. No fun.

Seriously, save the extra and at least go an E-manage. At least it can add fuel properly. Or better still, a standalone like the AEM EMS (my fave), Microtech etc.

Or hell, use a V-AFC. It's your engine.

[superR]

i ma now running a Power FC.... i cant say enough good things about it .... It is plug in ....not soldering chips in and the likes.... no romulating , and best of all no installation fees as it is plug in..... it was also quicker to tune.........very smooth to drive too.

james

[smoknhothonda]

Are they prepared to guarantee your engine? I thought not. Beware of internet experts (except me, you can trust me ;) ).

Seriously, you have to know how the V-AFC works to understand why it may not be good enough. All it really does is falsify the MAP signal in the hop that if it tells the ECU there is more air the ECU will add more fuel. FIne within limits, but on the newer ECUs if the air signal is too high (such as under boost) the ECU goes into limp mode.

There are ways of fudging it with a VAFC. You can turn up the fuel pressure (or use a rising rate regulator) so there is always mor than enough fuel, and then only use the VAFC to pull fuel. But that is a kludge using a mechanical and electronic trickery fighting against each other to tune your expensive engine.

The other problem is that if your ECU used closed loop tuning it will adjust things to try and hit the AFRs it was set to in the factory before you put a turbo on. No fun.

Seriously, save the extra and at least go an E-manage. At least it can add fuel properly. Or better still, a standalone like the AEM EMS (my fave), Microtech etc.

Or hell, use a V-AFC. It's your engine.

As you stated in your previous post that the AEM EMS is your preferred choice for a EMS, but its downfall was finding tuners with experience with this EMS.

I found this also, noone in Australia had experience with them, and Quantam racing had just started distrubuting them in OZ. They had Hi Octane racing in Sydney tuning them and a few other places, but my question is who tuned your car?

It wasn't Martin Donnan by any chance was it?

[AusS2000]

Adrian at Toda. Well he was at Advan when we first set it up but he did the retune a few weeks ago for the turbo setup.

The AEM is just another EMS. All the theories and techniques used for Motec or Autronic or whatever apply, it's just that the interface is a bit different. So whereas it's been a learning curve Adrian has done a sterling job. I've even suggested he speak to Quantum about being certified.

[terroristone]

choose the tuner first, then the ECU.
Regards Andrew.

[Cold Fusion]

how much are ECUs? like how much is an uberdata one? and whats a good cheaper option?

thanks.

[saxman]

uberdata is a free software to edit fuel maps and such... the needed hardware to put in to the ecu is quite cheap($25), and then you need something to burn the info you changed with the software onto one of the chips for the ecu(moates.net offers a few good options).


uberdata pretty much is the cheapest option

[AusS2000]

uberdata looks awesome. The sort of thing I love to play around with.

But am I correct in guessing that you have to set your fuel and timing curves in an E'EPROM, test it, then write new settings and test those and so on? Ie, you can't do live changes and see the results like with the AEM. That would be very painful.

[Weq]

uberdata looks awesome. The sort of thing I love to play around with.

But am I correct in guessing that you have to set your fuel and timing curves in an E'EPROM, test it, then write new settings and test those and so on? Ie, you can't do live changes and see the results like with the AEM. That would be very painful.

This is what most guys do, yes. It is very painfull.

There are realtime emulators - such as the ostrich and pocket romulator - which can be used with them though (ala hondata), but there are plenty of quirks and hacks that are involved and in the end tuning time out-weighs the benifit of a cheap/free ecu.

[saxman]

in the end tuning time out-weighs the benifit of a cheap/free ecu.
I think this depends on if you're tuning yourself versus having someone do it, and if you're tuning on the street versus on a dyno...


for someone having someone tune the car with a dyno, then yah, it is a major set back, but if you're tuning the car yourself on the road, you have to stop to make changes anyway, so the little bit of extra time to swap chips really isn't that big of a deal

[Limbo]

just wondering is it possible to map first on a laptop then burn on eprom or does the software not support his?

[poid]

thats exactly what you do in any case, create your maps on a PC using the software and then burn :)

[Limbo]

cool how much is the software and the eprom burner?
Also how does the eprom plug in? does it just get replaced by soldering?
Also got got odb2 will it work with that one?

[LVNIT]

Software - free
OBD1 ECU and conversion harness - $400
Rom burner - $150
Wideband so you can tune the car if you do it yourself - $500

I have done all this before, if you do not have time to waste and lots of patients in learning what needs to be done, then find another option.

[pornstar]

Ben, its silly to buy the Wideband imo. Tune it on the dyno using their wideband.

[saxman]

Also how does the eprom plug in? does it just get replaced by soldering?
Also got got odb2 will it work with that one?
http://home.mn.rr.com/keebler65/honda/uberdata.html


with obd2, you'll need an obd1 ecu and a conversion harness

[LVNIT]

Ben, its silly to buy the Wideband imo. Tune it on the dyno using their wideband.

Yeah fair call :)

[Surrufus]

Cypher Industries here in perth used a Wolf 3D Version 4 to run a turbo D16Y4 CXi

[Weq]

Ben, its silly to buy the Wideband imo. Tune it on the dyno using their wideband.

a first time tuner will rack up quite a bill on the dyno if they dont have there own wideband....

[AH_HUH]

how much did u guys pay for the autronic?

[pornstar]

a first time tuner will rack up quite a bill on the dyno if they dont have there own wideband....

how much more do you think? in comparison to the wideband that you might buy

IMO be in a much safer environment with less initial start up costs make sense.

[spacemaster]

Software - free
OBD1 ECU and conversion harness - $400
Rom burner - $150
Wideband so you can tune the car if you do it yourself - $500

I have done all this before, if you do not have time to waste and lots of patients in learning what needs to be done, then find another option.

Which ECU did you use ? where did you buy your harness ? Did you replace your distubutor with OBD1 distributor as well ?

Lots of questions. LOL... seriously, I am interest to do this and learn from you.

Thanks.

[saxman]

Which ECU did you use ? where did you buy your harness ? Did you replace your distubutor with OBD1 distributor as well ?

Lots of questions. LOL... seriously, I am interest to do this and learn from you.

Thanks.
best bet is a manual transmission p28(d16z6), P30(b16a2/3 depending on where you are), or p72(b18c)

I'd stay away from jdm ecus... the surface mount components make things a lot more difficult.

[leech]

i use haltec, very good

[shecomb]

how much did u guys pay for the autronic?

Your looking at $2k for the SMC model

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

p28 with uberdata and data log cable

[CUL8R]

i will be using s300 chipped p28 with a PLX-M300 wideband O2 in about a week :).

[grnlude]

I will have a P72 with Crome with RTP and Data Logging.

[Weq]

all these guys using the freeware programs, id love to hear feedback. keeps us updated.

[saxman]

all these guys using the freeware programs, id love to hear feedback. keeps us updated.
I use it, and love it... tuned many a car, and never had a problem.

I prefer uberdata over crome personally... I just can't get comfortable with the interface, and miss the simplicity of uber. all the wizards and such take away from my control imo.

[C_J_H]

Seriously, save the extra and at least go an E-manage. At least it can add fuel properly. Or better still, a standalone like the AEM EMS (my fave), Microtech etc.

Or hell, use a V-AFC. It's your engine.

I'll second that. Having run a number of ecu's on my car (including the e-manage and microtech) its good to save a bit of extra cash and get it done right. Finding the right tuner for the right ecu is the biggest issue I found :)

Running the stock computer and another (such as the microtech) is another good way to go in some cases, can save a fair few hassles down the track I've found.