understeer

[socheeriosbro]

me civc type R from 98 is sooooo understeery and before you ask NO MODS WHAT SOEVER .:eek: :thumbdwn: :?: whats the best tyres or should i modify it
:wave:

[BSRacer]

Get a bigger rear sway bar from whiteline, they're around the $150 mark and will fix that right up. FWD cars, understeer is a fact of life.

[socheeriosbro]

o.k.o.k.o.k.matematemate :wave:

[roar]

also look at wheel alignment...this has a major effect on handling characteristics

[saxman]

Get a bigger rear sway bar from whiteline, they're around the $150 mark and will fix that right up. FWD cars, understeer is a fact of life.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: rear sway bars are wonderful additions.

[Zdster]

Some sway and strut bars should fix it right up for you.

[saxman]

strut bars aren't going to make much of a difference, if any at all in regards to understeer

sways(a large rear in paticular) will make a HUGE difference

[EK9_boi]

Get a bigger rear sway bar from whiteline, they're around the $150 mark and will fix that right up. FWD cars, understeer is a fact of life.

after that make sure you stay committed to the throttle or you'll lift off mid-corner and become a statistic ;)

as for tyres - Yokohama A048 or Toyo Proxes RA1 (both street legal) or if drive mainly in wet, Bridgestone Potenza S-03

cheers

[Menthu Rae]

after that make sure you stay committed to the throttle or you'll lift off mid-corner and become a statistic ;)

as for tyres - Yokohama A048 or Toyo Proxes RA1 (both street legal) or if drive mainly in wet, Bridgestone Potenza S-03

cheers

mrmmm yes I have done this mid corner lift off during heavy understeer... coming from RWD car to FWD, it was not good...

Just a question though, say one does upgrade rear sway bars to something thicker, lowers the car, etc - if you're coming in HARD and get understeer, rather than panic and lift off - what should one do? Come onto the brake with the left foot?

Avoid feeding in more lock and lifting off... that results in mega mega lift off oversteer near-death, I know that much... :eek: :o :thumbdwn:

But yeah, what's the best way to counter it mid corner if you're in the shit so to speak?

[Zdster]

strut bars aren't going to make much of a difference, if any at all in regards to understeer

sways(a large rear in paticular) will make a HUGE difference

If the bars reduce twist, then wouldnt a strut assist when the car starts to roll into the corner and keep the car more stable?

[gelo]

maybe ur going too fast

[Zdster]

maybe ur going too fast

LOL. Just speaking from a hypothetical.

[saxman]

If the bars reduce twist, then wouldnt a strut assist when the car starts to roll into the corner and keep the car more stable?
yah, it would make it more stable, but why would it make the front react differently than the rear? You're stiffening them both up.

[Zdster]

yah, it would make it more stable, but why would it make the front react differently than the rear? You're stiffening them both up.

Fair enough. Didnt really think of it like that. Good point :thumbsup:.

[EG6_SiR]

I think you should do some sort of driving course.to get a better understanding of the esential points of a front wheel drive car may help (not having a go at you, it just may help more than actually doing any serious mods to the car) i have done these courses in previous years and they are excellant in outlining little things that you may be doing (wrong/ just not so good)... like picking the right line through corners and other such things.
good luck with watever you do mate.

[EK9_boi]

I think you should do some sort of driving course.to get a better understanding of the esential points of a front wheel drive car may help (not having a go at you, it just may help more than actually doing any serious mods to the car) i have done these courses in previous years and they are excellant in outlining little things that you may be doing (wrong/ just not so good)... like picking the right line through corners and other such things.
good luck with watever you do mate.

Can't agree with you more here...no handling mod is gonna fix lame driving (not having a go at you here ;) ) - good judgement of entry speed and taking the right line reduce/eliminates most problems. ;)

One more tip: Stop watching Initial D for a while! (just kidding!!! ;) )

cheers

[SINISTR]

Funny this thread came up on here - as we were just discussing thesame thing on our CRX forums.

From my experience, the very first suspension mod I did was installing a front strut brace which stiffened the front end making it a bit more responsive.
Then came the suspension and rear sway bar. With the correct setting - after a while i've managed to eliminate understeer almost completly - obviously at 'reasonable' speeds around corners.

I've experienced many times the effect of having the rear sway bar take the rear off the car and show it to me from the side, but once you learn to control it on the track, you can use it to your benefit to further conquer the understeer.

In my opinion no one mod will give you the best effect. Its a combination of things between the front strut/sway bars, rear strut/sway bars as well as the suspension damper and spring rate - but above all - drivers experience and technique will be the most important thing. An experienced driver will be able to drive a car without mods to its limits and beat an unexperienced driver with $10000 worth of mods - practice and learn! Do not ever say 'I know everything, I don't need to learn more' - thats BS - you can always improve!

[Vivski]

My car understeered a bit when I had the old Michelins on it... bought a set of Goodyear F1 GS-D3s for $600 and suddenly BAM awesomely neutral handling! But my car is a hatch and I drive it pretty quickly so it is often pretty light at the rear going into the corners... so understeer isn't much of a problem for me unless it's wet.

All the tips so far have been very good. I'd do it in the order:
1. tyres - 'cos good tyres are awesome and safer too.
2. driver learning - a lot of understeer can be negated by knowing how to drive it properly... and it's safer.
3. swaybar - no safer, more expensive, but ooh fun fun fun! and if you decise you dont need it after you get the new tyres, you can spend the money on something else like OzHonda stickers.

[string]

Tyres will not change any handling characteristics. They will simply mean you can be going faster before they come out.

Higher over-all spring rate in the rear will be the biggest help here.

I notice in my car, that I get a lot of turn-in roll leading to understeer, with no LSD, it's nasty. A good set of stiff shocks would definately help there.

The last is definately driving style. Picking an apex and sticking with it and not turning in more through a corner is definately going to keep you generally going where the wheels are pointing :D

[Omotesando]

I think tyres will change the characteristics for sure...

It doesn't sound logical, but every tyre with different patterns, construction, and loading characteristics, will give different lateral grip levels during the turn-in stage - these can make a car understeer, oversteer or neutral!

Having said that - I think it is pretty hard to predict what that particular set of tyres will do on that particular car in advance. :(


Also common misunderstanding if that if you have really stiff suspension (shocks and springs) then it will handle better. This is not correct at all... If you have absolutely no bodyroll, then you cannot load up the weight to the front when braking then turning in. This induces a LOT of understeer.

Everything is about balance!

[EK9_boi]

Whether your tires can help you grip a line through the corner and prevent understeer is besides the point - taking any other line other than the racing line for each corner at the appropriate speed will end up slowing you down. ;)

Also, one should not solely rely on tires to "cover-up" bad technique. Tires wear out eventually and then what do you do? understeer... :thumbdwn:

The trick here is a combination of tire quality, correct suspension tuning (agreed, the stiffest settings are often NOT the best) which allows correct weight transfer, but also maintains neutral handling. BUT most importantly drving technique. You need driving skills, braking skills, cornering skills, ninja skills, nunchaku skills - chicks dig skills!!! This would see to it that you are faster with practice. ;)


For ultimate cornering speeds, you need dampening and rebound and height adjustable coilovers. The road is NOT a circuit and hence you'll have many gaps and bumps to negotiate and anything that upsets your cornering is likely to kill you unless you're particularly gifted or trained.

Suspension tuning also includes the use of sway bars, camber adjustment, and caster adjustment for some cars. Addition of any of these mods would (should) require you to change your driving in order to maximimally utilize the upgrade.

Proper braking is another determinant as well - your goal is to carry as much speed BUT not more than the maximum speed into the corner for the line you are taking. Otherwise understeer or oversteer is inevitable - that's just physics.

From the sound of things, honestly I think you sound like you need some driving training (not having a go at you) - consider courses like "real driver" or "Ian Luff Advance driving course"

Keep us post mate. We'll be glad to help ;)

cheers

[aaronng]

If you have so-so tyres, they lose grip at lower speeds. With FF cars, the front wheels both steer and apply power, so they will lose traction earlier than the rear tyres when accelerating in a corner.

Front losing traction while rear maintains traction = understeer

Strut tower brace just stiffens up the chassis. Hence it is more responsive. It won't increase understeer/oversteer unless you stiffen up the front so much and leave the rear soft and twisty.

Front and rear sway bar thickness changes the under/oversteer characteristics. Coilovers will increase the cornering speed limit because the tyres would be kept properly contacted to the ground.

[EK4R]

go read up on wynode's suspension thread. i forgot the link but im sure its here somewhere. very good!

[socheerio]

Whether your tires can help you grip a line through the corner and prevent understeer is besides the point - taking any other line other than the racing line for each corner at the appropriate speed will end up slowing you down. ;)

Also, one should not solely rely on tires to "cover-up" bad technique. Tires wear out eventually and then what do you do? understeer... :thumbdwn:

The trick here is a combination of tire quality, correct suspension tuning (agreed, the stiffest settings are often NOT the best) which allows correct weight transfer, but also maintains neutral handling. BUT most importantly drving technique. You need driving skills, braking skills, cornering skills, ninja skills, nunchaku skills - chicks dig skills!!! This would see to it that you are faster with practice. ;)


For ultimate cornering speeds, you need dampening and rebound and height adjustable coilovers. The road is NOT a circuit and hence you'll have many gaps and bumps to negotiate and anything that upsets your cornering is likely to kill you unless you're particularly gifted or trained.

Suspension tuning also includes the use of sway bars, camber adjustment, and caster adjustment for some cars. Addition of any of these mods would (should) require you to change your driving in order to maximimally utilize the upgrade.

Proper braking is another determinant as well - your goal is to carry as much speed BUT not more than the maximum speed into the corner for the line you are taking. Otherwise understeer or oversteer is inevitable - that's just physics.

From the sound of things, honestly I think you sound like you need some driving training (not having a go at you) - consider courses like "real driver" or "Ian Luff Advance driving course"

Keep us post mate. We'll be glad to help ;)

cheers
Dude, that is a great post. I think the issue of driver training is nicely highlighted and in particular your point about suspension mods only being of real use to somebody who already knows how to get the best from their car. I have often said this before to peeps who buy a car and want to modify it the next week; better to get your head around it for a while first :)

Socheeriosbro might be young but he's already got a fairly good idea of how to handle a vehicle ;)

[Omotesando]

Yeah lots of good points being made!

I remember a few years back when some of my friends with either EK4 or the EK9 Type Rs.... thinking that because this is suppose to be one of the best handling and cornering cars in the world - could go into some corners in 3rd gear speed when its a 2nd gear corner, etc,. This is completely stupid.

If you go too fast into any corner, obviously its going to try understeer off the road LOL.

Having said that we cannot assume the driver who started the thread doesn't know how to drive either?

May be his car really needs a bit of tuning :) But for a Civic Type R to be understeery, something will have to be very wrong with it!

[quangsta]

If you have so-so tyres, they lose grip at lower speeds. With FF cars, the front wheels both steer and apply power, so they will lose traction earlier than the rear tyres when accelerating in a corner.

Front losing traction while rear maintains traction = understeer
Strut tower brace just stiffens up the chassis. Hence it is more responsive. It won't increase understeer/oversteer unless you stiffen up the front so much and leave the rear soft and twisty.

Front and rear sway bar thickness changes the under/oversteer characteristics. Coilovers will increase the cornering speed limit because the tyres would be kept properly contacted to the ground.

so you saying i should get bald or mb 50% tread tyres at the rear??? ;)

agreed notherless... :thumbsup:

minimal knowledge on CTR's (CMIIW) buh assuming similar to ITRs they should already have struts front and rear so best advice is like what most people said...go to driving school (not the one to get your P's from racv ;) ) learn how to drive your car....then drive it hard round a track...then you'll be able to appreciate your car and understand it more. only then will you be able to have an idea of what you need to adjust to suit your style and purchase accordingly....also how you gonna know whats better then stock if you dont know what the best it can do stock is??...

CMIIW = correct me if im wrong :D

peace out fellows noobz :wave:

[aaronng]

so you saying i should get bald or mb 50% tread tyres at the rear??? ;)

LOL, yup that will give you oversteer. :D But this kind of oversteer cannot be recovered from. Once your rear steps out, it won't stop. What you want is a rear that will step out when you lift and regains grip when you give partial throttle.