View Full Version : Best cams for B16
John Fallon
22-09-2003, 09:35 PM
getting a B16 with ITR cams, and before it goes into the rex, should i swap the ITR cams for something else?
I can get JUN stage 2's or Skunk 2.
What is best to go for????
John
vti-2
22-09-2003, 09:41 PM
Why ITR cams? Why don't you go CTR cams?
John Fallon
22-09-2003, 10:36 PM
Why ITR cams? Why don't you go CTR cams?
That what i'm being given with the engine. CTR cams are harder to come by in UK
vti-2
22-09-2003, 11:06 PM
How much are the other cams going to cost you? If the ITR ones come with the engine why not just try them and see how they perform?
AFAIK the CTR cams are more aggressive than the ITR ones therefore are better to go for. They are hard to come by here in Aus as well compared to ITR cams...
TODA AU
23-09-2003, 12:04 AM
TODA...
Since you're in England...
Contact - Torque Developments International PLC.
Unit 33, Trafalgar Business Centre
River Road
Barking
Essex IG11 0JU England
Tel: 0870 745 8750
Fax: 0870 745 8753
Email: sales@tdi-plc.com
Web site: http://www.tdi-plc.com/todahome.html
vti-2
23-09-2003, 10:25 AM
Be prepared to fork out $$$ for the Jun 3's...
same price range as todas
vti-2
23-09-2003, 10:30 AM
I meant in comparison to the Jun 2's and the Skunk's...
:P
one more chance
23-09-2003, 03:50 PM
it all depends on what your goals are and what application you are using them for. That is, how is your car set-up? Is it turbo/supercharged? Are you looking at this being a daily driver? What is your budget? All the brands you have mentioned are all great manufacturers of awesome camshafts. However, over my many years of quests in searching for quality Honda AEM products, one manufacturer stands out the most in terms of cams and proven results, that is EF-1. This company manufacture cams for your every needs, from high power cams that are capable of revving pass 10,000rpm with ease, to cams that are more suitable for high-power FI cars. The one thats stands out the most to me is the EF-1 M24 camshaft, also known as the "JunKiller" cam. It has high duration of 298 and a lift of 12.1mm. Compare this to any Jun cams, and you will see it has higher duration and more lift!!! This is definitely the one for high NA power cars!!!
here is a pic of the M24
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/400190/junkiller.jpg
Now bare in mind that these EF-1's are not cheap, but well worth the investment. However, if you are on a budget, then no doubt the best bang for your buck are CTR cams, but as u have mentioned, these are rare items. Toda and Jun make great cams too and are definitely items that u should highly consider.
But for me, one choice, EF-1 M24 all the way!
www.ef-1.com
edited by vti-2: fixed img link
Jnr Teggy
23-09-2003, 08:13 PM
i say Toda B's if you want lumpy!..don;t forget valve springs and retainers!
ek004
24-09-2003, 02:07 PM
teh more lift and duration on cams means the possibility of an upgraded fuels system, Engine mgt and more than like likely higher compression to make use of these cool cams...
pending on teh applicaiton for your car you should make ur decision based on that...
good luck
and do correct me if im wrong
cheers
Dave :wink:
one more chance
24-09-2003, 03:16 PM
teh more lift and duration on cams means the possibility of an upgraded fuels system, Engine mgt and more than like likely higher compression to make use of these cool cams...
pending on teh applicaiton for your car you should make ur decision based on that...
good luck
and do correct me if im wrong
cheers
Dave :wink:
thats absolutely correct! as the breathing pattern alter dramaticly with upgraded camshafts, you will need at the very least a piggyback comp that will be able to alter fuel and air ratios, along with ignition timing....
So does that mean you can't just mod the cams by itself? Say if I wanted to upgrade my cams from stock VTi-R to Toda A, would I have to do the valve springs etc. as well?
And a price range, anyone?
Jnr Teggy
24-09-2003, 11:48 PM
So does that mean you can't just mod the cams by itself? Say if I wanted to upgrade my cams from stock VTi-R to Toda A, would I have to do the valve springs etc. as well?
And a price range, anyone?
yes you would need valve springs, retainers and a good port and polish!
ek004
25-09-2003, 03:51 PM
U can put cams in your car without all the stuff, but u wouldnt be getting the most of of the cams, and there is a chance of valve float and a toasted motor if you over rev the motor...
pending on how agressive the camshaft, you will need to upgrade other components, VTEC heads are nice and big and pending on application you should not need to do much to the heads maybe just ageneral polishing will be adequate...
again it depends on what u want from your motor...
i think its best to chat with someone who has experience building motors
and to determine what u want from your motorcar. And then work from there, in general do it once and do it proplerly save you money in teh long run
HTH..
do correct me if im wrong i wish not give any misleading information...
DAve
Civic Type R
30-09-2003, 04:37 PM
Yes you will need a second set of Valve springs if you are using CTR / Jun / Toda or those new ef-1 cams. Currently non Type R DOHC VTEC heads have springs on one side of the valve train. You will need to swap these to the other side - by memory, exhaust, and place a new dual spring package to the intake side.
I believe it was mentioned why and yes a set of tit. retainers will be needed to prevent the float.
Also, look into getting a Spoon or Jun / whatever 2 ply head gasket. The will compliments the new cams as well as giving you a lift in compression.
btw, those ef-1 cams ... how much are they ?
**Ghost**
22-10-2005, 05:03 AM
thread resurrection time...
With Regards to CTR/ITR Camshafts in a B16a
the internet has a multitude of opinions
1. You need to change all springs and retainers
2. You dont need to change retainers, but u need to change springs, move double intakes springs to teh exhaust and get new double springs (TYPE-R) for the Intake
3. You dont need to change nething, juts slot them in and dont rev past ur stocke b16a 8400 rev limiter
Can someone tell me whihc #1 or #2 or #3 is true
ALLMTR996
22-10-2005, 07:52 AM
thread resurrection time...
With Regards to CTR/ITR Camshafts in a B16a
the internet has a multitude of opinions
1. You need to change all springs and retainers
2. You dont need to change retainers, but u need to change springs, move double intakes springs to teh exhaust and get new double springs (TYPE-R) for the Intake
3. You dont need to change nething, juts slot them in and dont rev past ur stocke b16a 8400 rev limiter
Can someone tell me whihc #1 or #2 or #3 is true
No2 is correct if you are going to use ITR/CTR or Toda Spec A cams and No 3 is very close to the money but as you have all read 100's of times to get the best out of the cams you need to look at the tuning and the complete combination of the engine.
ALLMTR996
**Ghost**
22-10-2005, 12:30 PM
ah so 2 is preferable but 3 is "passable?"
my piggyback cant even break the factory rev-limiter, so is there any real point to get double springs on one side when i cant even tune them that way?
8100rpm
22-10-2005, 01:34 PM
man, after u finish u will have a monter!
kOncept
22-10-2005, 01:43 PM
Be prepared to fork out $$$ for the Jun 3's...
I meant in comparison to the Jun 2's and the Skunk's...
:P
just to clear things up the JUN Type 1, 2 and 3 camshafts are the same price :)
Type 0 is slightly cheaper but does not require an aftermarket ECU.
krasyvy
22-10-2005, 04:30 PM
yeh i've heard good things abuot toda gear also
**Ghost**
22-10-2005, 05:08 PM
man, after u finish u will have a monter!
are u referring to me?| :D nah...she wont be a monster...just a aggravated little girl
so can someone please tell do i need doubel coil springs for CTR cams or not?
there are too many opinions, most ambiguous... i jsut wanna know whether its reasonable to use stock springs in the valvetrain provided i dont want to rbeak my rev limiter
ProECU
22-10-2005, 06:59 PM
i jsut wanna know whether its reasonable to use stock springs in the valvetrain provided i dont want to rbeak my rev limiter
How exactly does one break the rev limiter? LOL
**Ghost**
22-10-2005, 07:44 PM
as in go ABOVE the rev limit
pillow
22-10-2005, 08:23 PM
It's always better to be safe than sorry when upgrading cams. Change the valvesprings while you're at it. If you're changing to CTR cams, don't worry about the retainers, your stock B16 ones are fine, they're the same part.
DynoDave
22-10-2005, 10:18 PM
Why is this not in technical All Motor ?????.
**Ghost**
22-10-2005, 11:07 PM
omg dyno dave is back and his first post is spam!!! :P
DynoDave
22-10-2005, 11:18 PM
omg dyno dave is back and his first post is spam!!! :P
Yeah I'm back and if I see someone posting shit I will have to jump on some heads.
Regards Dyno Dave
**Ghost**
23-10-2005, 12:54 AM
well dave, u wanna asnwer my quesiton since ur back? :)
DynoDave
23-10-2005, 01:46 AM
well dave, u wanna asnwer my quesiton since ur back? :)
To help you out if it was me doing this job I WOULD USE THE ITR/CTR double valve springs remember spend a little bit more now and save alot more later because if you have a failure you will kick yourself for not doing the job right.If you want any more info PM me please.I will be tuning a B16A fitted with Skunk2-Stage2 cams next week and he is having Skunk2 springs and retainers done as well and it is tuned using a Microtech ECU if the owner says its ok I will post up a dyno sheet.
Regards Dyno Dave
ekslut
24-10-2005, 08:34 AM
sweet, a dyno graph would be very intresting Dave. Would like to see what gains there will be.
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