s2k vs type r @ wakefield

[robert112]

My mate and I are arguing over which will win?

stock vs stock.

compare any type r model to an 00 model s2k.

cheers.

[r`Geno]

Granted, the ratio of ITR's to S2000's is about 10:1 ; I've personally never seen an s2000 above the Type R's in the timing list at Wakie.

[MKI4EVA]

isn't there that race series on speedweek that has the answer to your question?

that red S2k rips the dc2R to bits and is in a different class as well.

they only run suspension and ecu.........and of course cage.

as close to stock as your going to get at proracer level.

[robert112]

mm... both true but neither lead me towards one =/

[r`Geno]

Bwahahahaha tripitaka

Not say you're wrong mate, just stating an observation. The two cars are in different classes tbh.

The S2000 is a top contender in A-stock.
The old ITR (better than the new ITR) does fairly well in D-Stock.

The determining factor would be that the FWD ITR could be driven at 101% & be ok. Whereas the RWD S2000 could be driven at a consistent 95%.

My bet is on the ITR, but I'm biased ;)

[Omotesando]

It is much easier to drive an ITR than an S2000.

Taking that into consideration, the ITR is as fast or even faster than an S2000 on some track like Wakefield.

Ultimately however, there is no doubt the S2000 can be quicker, provided it is in the hands of a competent driver. It takes a very good, professional level driver to extract the best out of it.

The ITR handles very well for a FWD, but the S2000 handles better. But the ITR is more predictable less the snap oversteer possible. People say S2000 is twitchy at the last 5%, simply because they don't know how to handle one. It tends to go from grip to no grip then grip then no grip again at the last 5% because its power is too peaky compared to other RWDs like a MX-5. This is not a minus. This is a plus. One has to have utmost confidence in knowing how to drive RWD and then trust the S2000 when the tail comes out slightly inorder to get the most out of it.


Unfortunately people who can handle it at the 100%-105% limit are very rare indeed!

[sivic]

i'll agree with omotesando.
while FWD are more predictable RWD cars can really be driven to a finer degree.
one main plus i find with RWD is that understeer can be corrected later in a corner with power, unlike FWD where the steering line has to be commited to much earlier.
as tsuchiya puts it: FWD requires early tuck in with heavy throttle.
also depending on the track, if there are longer straights i would lean further towards the S2k. from what i've witnessed/experienced the S2k has better topend acceleration

[crx51]

There is a review like this in a wheels or motor magazine. I cant find it as i have over 1000magazines though. I cant remember if it had both but im pretty sure it did. It had a type R integra and it was either an Nsx or s2000 and then also a motorbike and they did lap times and max speeds acheived on laps etc and it was quite interesting. Im pretty sure it was the s2000 and it beat the type r, if it was the nsx then that would be pretty obvious.

really though from all the reviews the s2000 is a 'fun' car, it handles but its not easy to make do so. Around any tight course with equal drivers i would place my money on a type r. Take em to daytona though and it'd be a different story.

[Astro]

at the end of the day the most important tool of both cars/or any car is between the steering wheel and the driver seat...

if u and your mate does have a type r and a s2000 then go wakies and have some fun..im sure u both wont be dissapointed ;)

[.::F[L]Y::.]

id have to say the type R is easier to drive around wakefield than an s2000. I have taken my s2000 down to wakefield and i just do average times with it. The s2k is unforgiving around certain corners of the track if you dont pay attention. Once the rear end comes round its difficult to pull it back. The rear end if often twitchy and as mentioned if your a pro driver and can take advantage of this the s2k can be a beast around the track. Either way its a fun car to drive around the track. Different cars are suited better to different tracks.

[vtml]

Read the first post on this thread:

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=165438

[blackdc2]

i have seen a good driver drive a totally stock s2k around wakefield at 1:13.1

[Iwishiwasa Type R]

There is a review like this in a wheels or motor magazine. I cant find it as i have over 1000magazines though. I cant remember if it had both but im pretty sure it did. It had a type R integra and it was either an Nsx or s2000 and then also a motorbike and they did lap times and max speeds acheived on laps etc and it was quite interesting. Im pretty sure it was the s2000 and it beat the type r, if it was the nsx then that would be pretty obvious.

really though from all the reviews the s2000 is a 'fun' car, it handles but its not easy to make do so. Around any tight course with equal drivers i would place my money on a type r. Take em to daytona though and it'd be a different story.

I think your talking aobut the wheels issue where W Gardner takes his NSX and bike and loaned dc5 around phillip isle. the dc5 was only sub 3 secs off the nsx time. not too sure if they did another issue w/ s2000 vs type r though. If anyone was to compare them it would be BMI.

[chicken8]

Best Motoring International has a special on the Type R legacy.

in a race there was a EK9 DC2R and a S2000

EK9 and DC2R was on 1st row. S2000 was 8 car lengths behind. and they were doing a 3 lap race. i think it was Maze Circuit in Japan

S2000 won by 7 seconds ahead of the DC2R which was 2 seconds in front of the EK9

[ROLLED]

I would like to see someone drive a ITR like this S2000 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7662325404894830688&q=s2000)

[ROLLED]

ripped from AusS2000 (sorry buddy)

[civ_sik]

Best Motoring International has a special on the Type R legacy.

in a race there was a EK9 DC2R and a S2000

EK9 and DC2R was on 1st row. S2000 was 8 car lengths behind. and they were doing a 3 lap race. i think it was Maze Circuit in Japan

S2000 won by 7 seconds ahead of the DC2R which was 2 seconds in front of the EK9

are you talking about the dvd "type r legend" where they race a type r civic, integra r, and s2000 agaisnt celicas and altezzas? coz if you are... integra r won and s2000 just beat the civic r...

kinda irrelevent tho coz that track is nothing like wakefield, and the civic r driver was shit haha

[DC5TYPER]

S2000 will win. 250hp Similar close 6 speed. I dont see how a stock Type R can beat a S2000. I've watched many many Best Motorings and S2000 ripped the R every time!

[Omotesando]

On those Best Motoring video races, which car wins or not wins is not completely relevant a lot of times - because the drivers are worried that they'll have an accident with the 'borrowed' cars hitting each other off. AND IT HAS HAPPENED.... an RX-7 hit the walls harder, and I remember a Modena 360 was hit by an Evo 7 on the side. Also whenever Gan-san drives, everyone lets him through coz he drives crazy, but he never lets someone else through.

What is relevant is the Lap Times and Time Attack times. And the S2000 wins everytime, no matter what track... U can't beat a finely balanced RWD car for handling and cornering ability. That is Physics.

How many F1, GP2 or F3000, V8 supercars are FWD? lol.
The only FWD race cars are lower powered Renault Clios or Mitsu Mirage because FWD has very big inherent disadvantages, especially on long winding corners and also uphill cornering.

ITR, CTR and FTO's are exceptions yes, but they still can't beat physics.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

only way to find out is to go wakefield....

but seriously in reality to determine the quickest around wakefield out of the 2 cars is to get a driver who is knowlegable in both cars to do a few laps in them.

There is hardly any point in using best motoring as a basis as yes they are pro drivers but i have seen their races and sometimes as mentioned the drivers dont allow each other to past which is probably why the s2k comes out on top every time.

overall i would say the s2k has potential to do quicker times than the itr with a good driver but if we are talking abt average skilled drivers than it would appear the itr would be easier to do some decent times as the s2k requires more involvement to get the best out of it.

[chicken8]

are you talking about the dvd "type r legend" where they race a type r civic, integra r, and s2000 agaisnt celicas and altezzas? coz if you are... integra r won and s2000 just beat the civic r...

kinda irrelevent tho coz that track is nothing like wakefield, and the civic r driver was shit haha

no. the 1 i saw was with CTR, ITR and S2K only. and the CTR and ITR had a 8car length head start. i remember the S2000 won. but even lets say the ITR won. then the S2000 still would've beat the ITR if they both started from front grid. 8 car lengths is a fairly substantial lead

[gelo]

this arguement is too theory based
liek fly said
take someone who is good at ff and fr
and let them do a few laps in each car

dont forget
this is stock for stock
imo, dc2r comes from the factory better as a track car

[TECBOY]

s2k down the straight
type r thru the corners

[preludacris]

s2k down the straight
type r thru the corners


coz the s2k's 50/50 weight balancing , doesnt do anything for handling right?

[DreadAngel]

Of course not haha...

Onto the topic at hand, who's willing to step up to the plate and be the test driver and whose's got a ITR and a S2000 that is willing to let someone thrash it on Wakie... Anyone?

[chicken8]

im willing to do the thrashing

just need a car

im a valet and i've driven both s2k and ITR on a regular basis. and for me the S2000 accelerates and corners much better than the ITR although the S2000's arse does tend to kick out if u add too much power on a tight corner whereas the ITR hugs the corner

[DreadAngel]

Okay, we've got our OH Pro Driver, now all we need is two guys drunk enough to hand over the keys for the day and the let the Wakefield Battle Begin!!! (To much blood rushing through my head lol)

[gelo]

im willing to do the thrashing

just need a car

im a valet and i've driven both s2k and ITR on a regular basis. and for me the S2000 accelerates and corners much better than the ITR although the S2000's arse does tend to kick out if u add too much power on a tight corner whereas the ITR hugs the corner

in the carpark

[ROLLED]

you guys should watch the link to that video i posted up earlier, the driver was taking the s2k around the nurburgring and says the cornering speed of the s2k would surpass that of the NSX and be a good match for the NSX type-S

[DreadAngel]

Hmmm... strong point, I did watch it too, magnificent but we're talking Wakefield not Nurburgring (I know its the granddaddy of all tracks...) if we want to conclude this, its with real cars and real drivers, not imaginations or hypotheticals

[Omotesando]

For for me personally, there is absolutely nothing wrong with hypothesizing using real, past data from the difference between these two cars driven by same drivers. Granted Wakefield is a different track, but for light weight vehicles and same low torque/high rpm power cars like an S2000 or DC2/5R, there wouldn't be substantial differences between all tracks. :)

The thing is - we might want to put a pro-driver sitting on an unmodded S2000 and then a unmodded DC2R and the DC5R to put around wakefield, but it doesn't sound like its going to happen any time soon :(

And if we don't discuss first what we THINK will happen using our fairly educated guesses, then what is the point of writing on this forum? haha..

[EKNR33]

Just like to add my 2c, there is a wakefield trackday coming up in mid june and i have a few mates going with the following cars:

1 x s2000 (first time at wakefield) STOCK Goodyear GSD3 F1's
1 x Dc2r (second time at wakefield, last pb 1.20-1.21ish running pod/catback/avc-r BUT brake pads very low LOL) Now with Goodyear GSD3 F1's car tuned with 112fwkw.
2 x Dc5r (second time at wakefield, both running road tyres last ps 1.20's) now 1 guy has second hand azenis(FULL STOC), other has new toyo's t1r's(catback/avc-r 108fwkw)

Interesting to see how these guys go, i'll let everyone know after the event has past.

<FYI, there is someone your average joe blow with a FULL STOCK Dc2R running consistent 1.15's and managed a high 1.14 last trackday he attended>

As for the S2k, i can't tell you BUT my guess is that my mate with the Dc2R will most likely pull quicker times then the rest as his a CRAZY ass DRIVER. hahaha

[gelo]

<FYI, there is someone your average joe blow with a FULL STOCK Dc2R running consistent 1.15's and managed a high 1.14 last trackday he attended>


yes
my friend

[|N|]

Just like to add my 2c, there is a wakefield trackday coming up in mid june and i have a few mates going with the following cars:

1 x s2000 (first time at wakefield) STOCK Goodyear GSD3 F1's
1 x Dc2r (second time at wakefield, last pb 1.20-1.21ish running pod/catback/avc-r BUT brake pads very low LOL) Now with Goodyear GSD3 F1's car tuned with 112fwkw.
2 x Dc5r (second time at wakefield, both running road tyres last ps 1.20's) now 1 guy has second hand azenis(FULL STOC), other has new toyo's t1r's(catback/avc-r 108fwkw)

Interesting to see how these guys go, i'll let everyone know after the event has past.




thats err....
<FYI, there is someone your average joe blow with a FULL STOCK Dc2R running consistent 1.15's and managed a high 1.14 last trackday he attended>

As for the S2k, i can't tell you BUT my guess is that my mate with the Dc2R will most likely pull quicker times then the rest as his a CRAZY ass DRIVER. hahaha


is that suppose to be a decent time?

[Omotesando]

1.14s for a DC2R or DC5R is what a pro driver gets on a stock one of these :)

Thinks he's a pretty good driver!

[EKNR33]

Which TIME are you refering to the TYPE-R's?.. Well KEEP IN MIND it was THERE VERY First trackday, so you can't EXPECT too much hahaha.

As for the Dc2R running 1.20-1.21 he was running Goodyear REVSPEC not much tread left and BRAKE pads also low. we had instructor drivers that day and he took my friends car for a spin best only got down to 1.18's. (he does 1.16's with his own DC2R) and saw how poorly my friend was performing hahaha but in the end the car wasn't really ready brakepads low tyres low.

[gelo]

who was the instuctor
just some random?

[|N|]

yea i want to know the instructor too.. is it just some fren's fren or something?

[bennjamin]

ive found as a previos noob but with bigger balls i did a 1.18 in a stock ITR a few years ago...it was not skill but more so simply hanging on eheh....which brings me to the point ~ can we have an idea of who the instructor was etc as it dosent sound too flash of a time :)

[EKNR33]

Sorry but i don't know the name of the driver instructor this was 1 1/2 years ago during a trackday organised by Circuit Club, all i can tell you it was a anglo with a RED DC2R.

Personally i believe if you did a 1.18 on your very FIRST trackday with road rubber in a ITR, i reckon your pretty good BUT thats just my 2c.

Anyways i'll keep everyone up to date of how the DC2R vs DC5R vs S2k when it happens.

[|N|]

Sorry but i don't know the name of the driver instructor this was 1 1/2 years ago during a trackday organised by Circuit Club, all i can tell you it was a anglo with a RED DC2R.

Personally i believe if you did a 1.18 on your very FIRST trackday with road rubber in a ITR, i reckon your pretty good BUT thats just my 2c.

Anyways i'll keep everyone up to date of how the DC2R vs DC5R vs S2k when it happens.

as ben said 1.18 for dc2r is not amazing at all.... back then ben was the biggest noob *runs away frmo chuck* .

i m not gonna mention any name here... but i have seeen EK4 ran 1.16.7 and EK GLi 1.19.1 both stock with minor sussy mod and st tyres. so if an instructor does 1.18 in his own dc2r. thats not impressive at all.

[EKNR33]

Hahha sorry it must of came out the wrong way,

My friend was doing 1.20-1.21 in his DC2R with very little brake pads left and low tyre treads.

The so called instructor driver was doing 1.15-1.16 in his OWN car with azenis, he saw how shocking my friend was performing and was going to show him a thing or two, but only managed a 1.18 in my mates car.

Ek4 running 1.16 and GLI 1.19 on there FIRST trackday is pretty impressive, i can understand it, if they have been a few times and have a bit of experience under there selves, BUT there VERY first trackday running those times i am impressed.

anyway, anyone else from here attending the next trackday organised by circuit club?

[gelo]

i will be
and my friend in a stock dc2r running 1:14 on st tyres

[Astro]

we can go on and on about this topic, all it comes down to is each and every owns personal best/aim that they can achieve...and if they achieve there PB's then the driver should be happy... hell i still havent reached my aim that i want yet....but its all about fun first.

i might go to this CC trackday if there is still some spots left. its just so cold
trying to get up early.

[EKNR33]

ASTRO: COLD is GOOD! :P hahaha well TURBO cars perform better at least and i'm sure the N/A guys will benefit from the cooler air intake as well.

Last CC trackday i went to it was bloody 35degrees!! this time around i'll be looking to cut some time off my PB just due to the weather TURBO's don't like HEAT. hahaha.

Anyways if you want to goto the CC trackday contact them ASAP as spots are very limited now and its just around the corner.

GELO: I'll see you down there mate i'll be in the White R33 Gts25t 'NISSAN' hanging around the black s2k and the few type-r's.

[Astro]

CC trackday is all filled. :(

anyone want to give me there spot?? ahahha

[gelo]

ill be in a all black ek4

[SiR JDM]

ill admit i havn't read many replies, so im not sure if im repeating any posts but ill give my 2c regardless

My experience lies with Vic track, Winton (v8s raced there the weekend just passed so if anyone watched it thats the track im talking bout ;) )

Ive driven an ITR on winton...
Ive been in an ITR on winton. Ive also been in an s2k on winton.

Compare both cars
ITR - street Advan tyres, D2 coilovers, Fujitsubo power getter exhuast + spoon headers.

S2k - Very worn semi slicks, spoon exhuast

On difference days of course, but the lap times were easily about 3~5 second difference on average.. which on track is a huge margin. (in favour of the S2K)

I think, even though the R is a "race bread" monster, the s2k is an exteremly well designed vehicle. If the drivers are equal, and both are stock cars, the s2k should come out on top in most situations.

It really depends on the drivers alot too. Personally, i prefer the comfort of a FF car... its alot less risky to go hard in... if your understeering, you lay off the accel a bit... with the s2 you will need to let the rear kick.. you need to slide it out without lossing it, while maintaining your line, revs... the s2k requires alot more skill, but if you can manage it, it has more potential than the ITR ... IMO! =]

hope that made some sence and helps out the topic

[BlitZ]

wakefield is proabably : 45% skill and 55% experience..

A stock r with stock brakes and stock tyres should be able to get 1:15.. and 1:14 for pro without an issue...

Pro's go out and get the line/braking right after like 1 session.. takes us mortals about 20 + track sessions to get the line/brake of what a pro can do in 1.

[Cyrus]

Sorry but i don't know the name of the driver instructor this was 1 1/2 years ago during a trackday organised by Circuit Club, all i can tell you it was a anglo with a RED DC2R.

Personally i believe if you did a 1.18 on your very FIRST trackday with road rubber in a ITR, i reckon your pretty good BUT thats just my 2c.

Anyways i'll keep everyone up to date of how the DC2R vs DC5R vs S2k when it happens.

probably know who u talking about.....he's an instructor?? with that time, probably can only say someone with a bit more experience under their belt

[integrity]

guys the ITR is built for track like atmospheres but so is the s2k.
think of the reality
the f20c is the most powerful 2.0l n/a ever made and its up againt a 1.8l fwd
do the maths guys
the s2k weighs abit more but the cornering capabilites of it is unbelievable
i have driven type r's and comparing it to a s2k the s2k sticks like a go kart.
that 50/50 weightdistribution is amazing as well.

itr revs out a little quicker btu the power that comes from a f20c around corners there is no way in the world a ITR can beat it.

as a A-class car its been specifically built for track and has given up luxuries to give the drivcer the feel of a f1 driver.

the ITr is a C or D class type car...

i know there is alot of ITR owners out there but compared to the S2K it cant be beat in a straight or even on corners.

if youve been in one or driven one youll know

[bennjamin]

guys the ITR is built for track like atmospheres but so is the s2k.
think of the reality
the f20c is the most powerful 2.0l n/a ever made and its up againt a 1.8l fwd
do the maths guys
the s2k weighs abit more but the cornering capabilites of it is unbelievable
i have driven type r's and comparing it to a s2k the s2k sticks like a go kart.
that 50/50 weightdistribution is amazing as well.

itr revs out a little quicker btu the power that comes from a f20c around corners there is no way in the world a ITR can beat it.

as a A-class car its been specifically built for track and has given up luxuries to give the drivcer the feel of a f1 driver.

the ITr is a C or D class type car...

i know there is alot of ITR owners out there but compared to the S2K it cant be beat in a straight or even on corners.

if youve been in one or driven one youll know


Peak power isnt everything. From what ive seen a DC2R and a S2K are very similar in straight line performance and cornering speed. Perhaps the DC2R , being a FWD is more fool proof tho. I believe yes , in the right hands the S2K is a quicker car. A S2K has more luxuries than a DC2R IMO ;)

[integrity]

dude the S2k doesnt even have a clock
S2k were built intiatially as a track car
the reason for the digital sppedo is to give the driver the feel of a f1 racer.
S2k is in the classes with the NSX
comparing it to a type r is pointless
like i said there are many type r owners here and their rides are both nice and handle well
but comparing it to a car purely built for track with the most powerfu 2 litre motor ever produced is pointless...
straight or cornering you cant beat the s2k .....
there might as well be a thread ITR vs NSX

[bennjamin]

all 3 are great cars in their classes ~ but this is a comparison from a ITR to a S2k. As I said above and others have said , in the right hands a S2k will be quicker but it will be a much harder car to achieve good recults from on the limit. So , to answer the original question YES , a S2k with a good driver will out perform a DC2 ITR on the track :)

[integrity]

the comparison is made as both drivers as equals
bood driver bad driver matters
what this is becoming now is like
tsuchiya driving a dual carb civic against a 12 year old behind the wheels of a NSX...
the poll should be car on car
driver matters of course but in this case its motor on motor

[bennjamin]

the comparison is made as both drivers as equals
bood driver bad driver matters
what this is becoming now is like
tsuchiya driving a dual carb civic against a 12 year old behind the wheels of a NSX...
the poll should be car on car
driver matters of course but in this case its motor on motor
This was the original question...


s2k vs type r @ wakefield
My mate and I are arguing over which will win?
stock vs stock.
compare any type r model to an 00 model s2k.


The only thing which is the decider , is the driver yup. As i said again above , the same driver in both cars willl either make the ITR faster or the S2k faster around wakefield.
This is becuase the ITR (both DC2R and DC5R) are an easier car to get better results out of. If you or anyone wants to discuss any other makes or questions feel free to search and find a similar topic or make a new one :)

[aaronng]

as a A-class car its been specifically built for track and has given up luxuries to give the drivcer the feel of a f1 driver.

S2000 was not built as a track car. It was built as a roadster whereby they wanted the same chassis stiffness as a coupe. The interior of the S2000 has too much luxury for a track car. Stock suspension is too soft as well.

[integrity]

the s2k is the most basic car ever made
the only thing that ois different is the roof
it does not have a clock a glove box or even a cigarette lgither
it was solidly built for track

[|N|]

the s2k is the most basic car ever made
the only thing that ois different is the roof
it does not have a clock a glove box or even a cigarette lgither
it was solidly built for track
then it must be the only track car with AC and power steering

[aaronng]

the s2k is the most basic car ever made
the only thing that ois different is the roof
it does not have a clock a glove box or even a cigarette lgither
it was solidly built for track
Show me a track car that is a convertible! A convertible has less stiffness than a coupe for the same weight. So ALL track cars are coupes.

BTW, the M3 CSL is a track car, and that has a glovebox, cigarette lighter and a clock. So the omission of those 3 items does not make it a track car.

A track car is a car where street driving comfort is sacrificed for handling. Hence the DC2R and DC5R which most motoring magazines dislike because it is not comfortable, the M3 CSL where all the comforts are ripped out for weight reduction (including the roof, which is replaced with a CF one)... and the Lotus Elise (the older ones) where there was not even interior carpet nor an adjustable seat to reduce weight.

[bennjamin]

Hondas have been known to "Bridge the gap" from performace to the everyday average driver. The S2K is no differernt. A great car but no TRACK deidacated car. It was made as a modern day Honda S600/S800 :)
I call it art not track work :)

[integrity]

O M G !!!!
if the s2k is not a track built car then neither is a typ r
you should really check what you are talking about before you submit it dude
ill get the link and add your sweet heart in . . .

[WhiteAP1]

Its threads like this that make Ozhonda a laughing stock. The s2000 a luxury car??? Not a track car??? Suspension too soft??? U guys have no clue, i really cant be bothered with this one

[aaronng]

Its threads like this that make Ozhonda a laughing stock. The s2000 a luxury car??? Not a track car??? Suspension too soft??? U guys have no clue, i really cant be bothered with this one
Are you using after market coilovers? If you are, why did you replace your stock ones?

[Vuey]

Its threads like this that make Ozhonda a laughing stock. The s2000 a luxury car??? Not a track car??? Suspension too soft??? U guys have no clue, i really cant be bothered with this one

i hear what your saying my brother and you couldnt be more spot on :thumbsup: .


the thing makes me LMAO and nearly fall out of my chair is that majority of the post are simply bias opinions . (Nothing wrong with that;) ) but i dare say most of what people know is what they have heard or read about in magazines :rolleyes: . As a matter of fact , on a recent track day with the MX-5 club , a guy with a stock MX-5 ( r spec tyres / brakes ) was lapping faster than S2000's , ITR's and various other sports cars , this was at Oran park . Does this make the MX-5 a better car ? hell no . In a basic comparison the S2000 has the edge over the ITR is most departments . End of the day , you cant compare the handling of a FWD against a RWD . If FWD's were so good , F1 cars would be ! ;) Sure the ITR has good handling for a FWD , but its not great . As for the S2000 being "tail happy" im sick of hearing that . Usually comes from people who have never driven one . :rolleyes:
And we all know , the DC5 is a soft car, Honda beeffed it up too much for it to be a serious competitor . I personally like it , but the Australian spec is cut short .

to sum up really , it really depends on who's driving either car to get the best out of them . Thats where this thread should of ended . :p

[WhiteAP1]

It wasnt beacuse they were too soft its because they werent stiff enough for me. If ure "track cars" suspension is so damn good why do they make coilovers for M3's and porsches. I know plenty of ppl who have replaced ITR suspension, whats ure point. Stock for stock, S2000's suspension is better than the ITR. (not an opinion a designed fact)

U ask what other performance car is a convirtable?? A few AMG, ferrari and lambo owners might have something to say about that. I wanna know what respected preformance car apart from the TypeR is FF.

Mind u, the type R is just a variation of an Integra, a damn good one i might add (personally i love the car), none the less its an integra in the integra line up. The S2000 is a track focused car (not that the ITR isnt), chasis and engine specific, with hell of alot more race bred attributes than the ITR. It has aircon and power steering (like any high priced performance cars) because what person with $80k will buy a car without the two. Im sure there are a select few who may buy the car in that state, but they're hard enough to sell as it is.

Even if YOU fail to see the S2000 as a track car, it still out performs the ITR on paper and the track. (and please dont tell me about the one time when it was the other way around, isolated incidents are hardly scientific) While ure at it you should sue Honda for marketing and advertising the S2000 as a track car, seeing as though its not an all......

[bennjamin]

to sum up really , it really depends on who's driving either car to get the best out of them . Thats where this thread should of ended . :p
Thats where i stated awhile back :) And others did too.

The only bias seems to be coming from actual owners of the described vehicles :)

Original question has been answered and this debate can go on forever ~ So be my guest and make a new thread about ITR vs S2K...SAME DRIVER etc.

[WhiteAP1]

Thats all good and well but what about all this BS about the S2k not being a track car, do we pride ourselves in posting opinion as fact? or just incorrect information?

[Vuey]

Thats all good and well but what about all this BS about the S2k not being a track car, do we pride ourselves in posting opinion as fact? or just incorrect information?

3 from 3 my brother !
someone organize this man a prize / award .... give the man something !!!! ;)


what person with $80k will buy a car without the two
Lotus Elise owners :p
but my neighbour has one , and he misses his S2000 dearly . Its not a day to day driver the Lotus . abit too track focused . Sure its great on the track , but for day to day trips up and down Parramatta road with all its pot holes , you may as well be ridding in a shopping trolley !


Stock for stock, S2000's suspension is better than the ITR. (not an opinion a designed fact) any S2000 owner will tell you , shes a very harsh ride , feel every bump in that road i tell you , bad on the stock 16's and stock suspension , even worst for me now on 18's . And my gf's car is even worst on 19's ! :eek:

[Omotesando]

Some of you guys are arguing whether the cars are designed as a TRACK CAR or not. In reality this description is a very 'open' subject. I'm actually not for or against anything or anyone, but I want to raise a few points that might clarify things a bit.

1) If you bring the S2000 onto the track, does your Honda Warranty cover it if you have problems (aside from wrong gear downshift)?

2) The DC2 Type R came out with lighter and carbon fibre 'everything' as well.... Since someone mentioned Air Con, I ought to remind everyone the Type R Integra doesn't come with AC standard.

My point is, all Type Rs and also the S2000 ARE designed so that they COULD go on the track as it is. Why separate them?

3) Just a point. Most people who drive an NSX doesn't bring it onto a track ever. Is it capable of being driven hard on the track? Oh shit yeah.

4) A Modena 360 or F430 or GT3 or M3. Can they be track cars? Oh yeah. Are they DEDICATED track cars? Oh not quite. That'll be the 360 CS, F430CS, GT3-R or M3-CSL. Do they still have luxuries? Yeah. Is it confusing you?

5) Aaronng is kinda right. The S2000 is a convertible and as such it shouldn't be termed as a Track Car. So shouldn't an MX-5.

However, the important thing is that if you decide to drive the S2000 on a track, it's going to kick bums... because it probably works better on a track than on the road, as the rear slides a bit.

Which brings us back to my original 1st sentence - the definition of TRACK car.

Instead of arguing over this point, I think it'd be much easier if we separate and term them DEDICATED TRACK CAR and CAR ABLE TO TRACK.

Then we look at the cars. Do the Gallardo, 360CS, M3CSL, STI V.8, EVO IX, S2000, Type Rs, MX-5, GT3-R, Lotus Elise (new ones are still light but have Air Con, btw.) -do these belong as a dedicated track car? NO. Surprisingly. Despite their light weight savings, technology, chassis balance, semi-slick tyres and ceramic brakes on some cars, etc, they are primarily to be driven on the street by the end user/buyer. To be a dedicated track car, they'll need to come out form the factory with FULL ROLL CAGE installed.

Are they all capable of being driven on the track and set fast times? Bloody oath YES...


To me the Type Rs and S2000 are nearly equals, all are track 'biased'.

Look which section of the forum we're posting in for the clue.... LOL :P


Which one is faster around the track? Without a doubt, the S2000.
Better balance. Better suspension. Rear wheel drive inherently better to drive. Better track oriented engine and gearing. Better start button. Better built - built in NSX factory. Better looking. Higher price.

As for the engine performance differences between DC Type Rs and S2000. Not much in them... The Power Band on both are for top end, but S2000 has a little bit more. Which on a 'track' and with suitable gearing, will give a slight edge to the S2000 after the cornering apex. In real world driving, the S2000 is only very slightly quicker in a straight line. And the Type R engines have more potential to be unleashed from factory too - so all in all - they're similar enough 4 cylinder engines.

[WhiteAP1]

Track "able" is good definition but i think its safe to say were talking about the same thing. The cars are bought to be road registered ud be a fool to think that they come track preped for professional use from stock. When i say track car, thats what i mean anyway.

My point is take a look at the S2k gear box, deemed by most as one of the best H gates in the world, the steering wheel, the dash, the light weight wheels, tyres created just to suit the car, 50/50 weight distribution, engine mounted behind the front axel for balance. Sway bars thicker than most aftermarket products. Re-enforcment absolutly everywhere, chasis and suspension. Why would a non able track car have so many track focused technologies. Being a convertable has no impact on the car whatso ever. Its as ridgid as ever, thats why those who havent driven the car extensivley claim it to be tail happy. Again there are many many high end sports cars that are much faster and much more track "able" than the two, that are convirtable and fully equiped. U show me a luxury car has chasis re-enforcment pertruding through the cabin floor. And what kind of a luxury car revs to 9k with a cabin that small. Also what luxury car comes with only a close ratio six speed and no auto option???

End of the day the S2000 is a "track" car just as much as the type R if not more so, seeing as though its FR (a true sports car). U can agrue one is faster than the other all u like, just make sure uve got a clue about the both cars before u post incorrect info.

[aaronng]

It wasnt beacuse they were too soft its because they werent stiff enough for me. If ure "track cars" suspension is so damn good why do they make coilovers for M3's and porsches. I know plenty of ppl who have replaced ITR suspension, whats ure point. Stock for stock, S2000's suspension is better than the ITR. (not an opinion a designed fact)
If they were not stiff enough for the road, then it is already sacrificing performance for comfort. DC2R's suspension is stiff enough, but people swap for aftermarket coilovers because they want it lowered.

A generic Porsche is not a track car. The only Porsche that I consider a track car is the GT2 and GT3. And an M3 is not a track car. The M3 CSL is a track car. Show me coilovers that are worth using to replace those on the CSL and GT2/GT3.



U ask what other performance car is a convirtable?? A few AMG, ferrari and lambo owners might have something to say about that. I wanna know what respected preformance car apart from the TypeR is FF.
Generic AMGs, Ferraris and Lambos are not track cars. They are high performance sports cars. The Challenge Stradale variation of the Ferraris are track cars.




Mind u, the type R is just a variation of an Integra, a damn good one i might add (personally i love the car), none the less its an integra in the integra line up. The S2000 is a track focused car (not that the ITR isnt), chasis and engine specific, with hell of alot more race bred attributes than the ITR. It has aircon and power steering (like any high priced performance cars) because what person with $80k will buy a car without the two. Im sure there are a select few who may buy the car in that state, but they're hard enough to sell as it is.
Track variations take the sporty car and turn it into a track based car by sacrificing comfort by taking away AC, sound deadening (there is heaps in a street car) and overly stiff dampers and springs. Take a DC2R and an S2000, both stock. Run them on the terrible roads that we have in Sydney and find out which one is less comfortable. Also on the subject of sound deadening, does the S2000 have that? If it does, then it has just compromised performance for comfort.



Even if YOU fail to see the S2000 as a track car, it still out performs the ITR on paper and the track. (and please dont tell me about the one time when it was the other way around, isolated incidents are hardly scientific) While ure at it you should sue Honda for marketing and advertising the S2000 as a track car, seeing as though its not an all......
It is not performance that makes a track car. It's the sacrifice of comforts, road compliancy and sound deadening to get that last 5% of performance out of a chassis is what makes it a track car.

[ROLLED]

Also on the subject of sound deadening, does the S2000 have that? If it does, then it has just compromised performance for comfort.


obviously you've never been in an s2000 before. it's probably one of the noisiest cars to sit in, alot louder then a dc2r, esp. when pushed upto 9krpm!

I don't get all the hate for the s2000s on here?

If you get the chance, take one up a twisty road...you'll have so much more fun then any FF can provide you...

both cars as equally uncomfortable especially when we have tram tracks down here in melb...i actually find the dc2r to be a bit more comfortable...it's probably due to the 15" wheels as opposed to the s2k's 16" rims...

[WhiteAP1]

HAHAHAHAHA because they want it lowerd, fully sick Uleh. Why would use coilovers to lower a car just for that purpose,they sound really track focused. Every ITR owner i know did it to improve handling.

I never said they werent stiff enough for the road, learn to read, i said they werent stiff enough for me. If the ITR suspension is so good why are there so many aftermaket options that improve the car dramatically.(as there is for the s2000) And why do spoon and other garages use coilovers on their track cars. Besides by design, not opinion, S2000 suspension is stiffer, read up on it, or experience it.

The ITR is a good car but ure holding it a little to high, putting it in the same lime light in regards to track-ablitily as the CLS and GT2, mate ure clutching at straws and the AMG is hardly generic. I get ure point, really i do, but its a little thin. Yes ferraris are a sports car and the GT2/3 are
"track" cars but i wouldnt considerd the ITR as raw as a GT2 or CLS (thats probably the main reason we disagree). There are aftermarket options for (any) porsche and AMG & BMW try Ruff, Kramer, brabus bilstein to name a few.

Most passengers comented on what a harsh ride the S2000 was,especially for a daily driver, and guess what a few of them own ITRs. Honestly, have u driven the car for more than 5 mins or at all, its really easy to see the S is a little stiffer.

Again ure commenting on a car ure kinda familiar with, No there is no sound deadening. All im saying the S2000 is not a soft or a luxury car, and the type r isnt as hardcore as ure making it out to be (FF ???). Id easily put them in the same catagory .

[aaronng]

I give up... I'm not saying that the S2k is not hardcore. I'm saying that it was not built as a track car from the factory. My classification of track cars are cars where comfort is removed to improved performance. I'm not saying that the ITR is at the same performance level as a CSL or GT2. I'm just saying that those cars have something in common and it is the removal of comforts in order to gain as much performance as possible.

I'm not caring about which car is more harsh. I'm not caring for the FF vs FR debate either. I'm just saying that a track car sacrifices comfort for performance.

[Omotesando]

Which comes back to what I was explaining before.


IN between luxury and formula 1 cars, there are also luxury, normal street, sporty, rice with fart cans and VAFC-IIs, sportscar, trackable sports, track cars, etc.

There is actually a spectrum we're talking about here.

Personally on a scale of 1-10 - I'll rate the S2000 as 8.5 track oriented designed and 1.5 comfort and most Type Rs a 9.0 trackable and 1.0 comfort. S2000 is kind of like the Type S-Zero of the NSX, which lies just below the ultimate Type R NSX but nearly equally 'light' and 'sacrificed'.

As for the track performance this is not completely dependent on its trackable design intentions. I'll rate the S2000 9.5 track ability and a Type Rs a 9.0.

I know I'm being a bit ambiguous here with my numbers not matching but hey, if you can see through what I mean - CERTAINLY it means the S2000 is a better car and better all-rounder. As it should, for its price.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

you guys are over analyzing the question being asked. The guy isnt asking about the comfort factor of the s2000 or dc2r but jus merely which car will prevail.

the question was answered in the first couple of posts....comes down to the DRIVER~

dc2r will be easier to handle at a track like wakefield for a novice. S2000 will require more involvement from the driver but has the potential to do quicker times wit the right driver.

[Q_ball]

^Too right!
Stick to topic pplz!
Dont continue down the same tangent as this conversation has head already.

[WhiteAP1]

I'm just saying that a track car sacrifices comfort for performance.

I totally agree, and u'll find sacrifices have been made in both cars, and some creature comforts have been kept in both cars. They really are more similar than different. I just didnt agree with the lable u were putting on the S2000.

[ROLLED]

It's funny how we're arguing with people that drive Euro Accords, a totally diff car...pretty much just goes to show what their opinion is worth.

[integrity]

LOLZ
look as i explained before i have owned 2 integras (not type R)
they handle well ... ive driven type r and they are quite impressive BUT
its not worth comparing the FF 1.8 litre against a FR 2.0 litre
the S2K was built for track full stop...
aaronng like i said you need to get your info straight before you embarress yourself in honda forums.
bennjaminn you are right that the itr goes well and yes it is the driver that also counts but what the S2K boys are stirred about is how sweethearts like aarong claim the "S2K is not a track car" which is totally wrong.
he must be getting his info from gran turismo on PS2 or hot4s which is so cute.
If any honda owners(apart from S2K owners) think the S2K is not a track car like roller said "youve never been in one before"
you can take hair pins in it and itll stick like a go kart.
they pretty hard to get used to compared from the ITR but they will surpass the ITR hands down in the straight and on the turns.
the whole car has been built for track witht the short shift 6 speed, the 50/50 weight and the LSD etc...
ITR is a track car as well but it is not in the class that the S2K is in.
aarong if youve never been in an s2k and just assume things about them you can just come out and say it then the thread will be closed.
dont try to embarress yourself no more sorry but its true.

[Vuey]

Its threads like this that make Ozhonda a laughing stock. The s2000 a luxury car??? Not a track car??? Suspension too soft??? U guys have no clue, i really cant be bothered with this one

i really think this post sums it all up .

[bennjamin]

Question answered long ago :) As i said before ~ make a new thread to discuss WHAT a S2k really is.

Marketing suggests its a "track car" ( IE honda states...) But its a very well equipped track car if thats the case.
Owners state its a track car , then that its not.
Others that are jealous (including myself) state the bare facts and its compared to another HONDA that is aimed at the "sporty drive" environment ( DC2/5 R)...

Closed Guys...take it to the lounge for another discussion thread :)