front lower than rear, explain this? [Archive]

EK4R

13-05-2006, 10:54 AM

hey can any explain to me what would the effects be on a FF (EK) if say the front is about 1-2inchs lower than the rear?

would i achieve better traction being FF ?

what about handling? and under break?

how would these affect if the rear was higher than the front?

EG5[KRT]

13-05-2006, 11:00 AM

i thnk that if the front is lower it upsets the balance of the car when turning hard due to the rear being of a higher centre of gravity ..

matt

13-05-2006, 12:07 PM

i had whiteline springs fitted to my dc5r last week and the rear springs haven't settled properly yet and is about 25-30mm higher than the front.

its not that much harder to drive except that it understeers fairly easily at the moment. im presuming that as the rear comes down properly that will correct itself.

you could avoid this though with a bigger rear sway, if you want to keep your car like this.

traction is not really any different.

ATSE

14-05-2006, 01:39 PM

With springs.. the rear is usually higher to compensate:

-Weight of Fuel
-Passengers
-Stuff in the boot

If you want even height... height adjustable coilovers is the only way to go.

EK4R

14-05-2006, 04:23 PM

what if the front was higher than the rear? how would that affect handling

matt

14-05-2006, 05:03 PM

With springs.. the rear is usually higher to compensate:

-Weight of Fuel
-Passengers
-Stuff in the boot

If you want even height... height adjustable coilovers is the only way to go.

then why would the front not be higher to compensate for mmm i dunno, the engine.

spring sets are generally designed to sit about the same level and have different spring rates to suit the front and rear.

my whitelines should have a wheel centre to top of the guard height of 345mm which the front does but there is something up with the rears which whiteline is looking into currently.

i guess to answer your question though EK4R for a road car you are best to have height settings pretty much the same front to rear.

EK4R

14-05-2006, 05:11 PM

yea i know cheers for that.

i just wanted to know what would be the effect on the handling of the car if :

front higher than back
and
back higher than front

you guys told me if the front is lower, then i would increase understeer correct?

matt

15-05-2006, 12:09 PM

more understeer is my experience. you could put a bigger rear sway bar in the rear to correct it but you might find it becomes unsettled easier given the higher centre of gravity.

integral90

15-05-2006, 05:07 PM

having the front tilting down should give you better grip from a stop, seeing as the weight is leaning forward, but this would also make more understeer, more easily.

having the back higher should make the car more balanced under braking, seeing as the car should tilt to be about even. The traction from a stop would probably decrease as less weight is on the tyres.

EK4R

15-05-2006, 06:03 PM

yea. or having my back higher i could deflat my front tyre bout 10psi ...hmm just a thought

thx for the feedback

NogZ

22-05-2006, 02:30 PM

lol dont deflate anything to compensate for height. It will increase drag and screw your tyre wear. :)

Higher front would be lessening the rake of the car, increasing air pressure at the bottom front area and providing less grip at the front as you go faster (not good)

back higher than front, id say a lil less grip at the rear and more at the front -> a bit more oversteer. Theres lots of other things, but i think the above effect is the most noticeable.

rear height > front height is optimal, it is the stance of drag/circuit cars as its better for the car's aerodynamic err coefficient.

additin:

if the rear was considerably higher than the front from stock, worst situation your rear tyres will break traction if you have not changed the F/R brake bias

VTi_b0i

22-05-2006, 02:49 PM

blu3illusion84

22-05-2006, 03:35 PM

my car is lower at the front then it is in the rear and i hate it! lol in the rain, and in hard cornering, my car actually drifts! its sooo dangerous! im going toi slam the rear soon and see if that helps, cause its actually very scary driving in the rain and cornering at high speed...

this what happen to my ek1.. the front wheel actully spin! try to brake didnt help so my car just ram to the kerb.. *didnt fought abt the hand brake*
any other way to stop the car drifting out of the cornering?

btw the front low and the back high

czy_sol87

22-05-2006, 03:57 PM

this what happen to my ek1.. the front wheel actully spin! try to brake didnt help so my car just ram to the kerb.. *didnt fought abt the hand brake*
any other way to stop the car drifting out of the cornering?

btw the front low and the back high
if ur car goes into a drift the worst thing u could do is hit the brakes, u use the accelerator to gain traction
or u could try slowing down for a corner

VTi_b0i

22-05-2006, 04:41 PM

blu3illusion84

22-05-2006, 04:45 PM

if ur car goes into a drift the worst thing u could do is hit the brakes, u use the accelerator to gain traction
or u could try slowing down for a corner

i did slam the brake.. but didnt stop the car
everyone say maybe im running on crappy tyres.. FALKEN!!

VTi_b0i

22-05-2006, 04:47 PM

he said the WORST thing u can do is slam on the breaks lol

czy_sol87

22-05-2006, 05:03 PM

lol
i was giving my friend a race, up a head came a slight corner, i knew if i broke, i would just lock up and that would be the end of me. so i slamed 3rd to compression brake, went round the corner and it drifted :s im like WTF!@! lol drifting round a corner at 140 aint fun! lol now im doing everything i can to make sure i have the best handling cause thats bullcrap lol i coulda taken that corner easy as...
u drifted because u put it into 3rd so quickly, which made all the weight shift
to the front and when that happens the rear is light and drifts out

i did slam the brake.. but didnt stop the car
everyone say maybe im running on crappy tyres.. FALKEN!!
could be was it wet, or could be u were goin too fast

ONE600

25-05-2006, 12:57 AM

Our rear is sitting rear is sitting lower than the front at the moment, theres no right or wrong here, it depends on ur shock/spring/arb combo. but generally u want the car to be flat or front lower than the rear.

rear higher = more oversteer
rear lower = more understeer
front higher = more understeer
front lower = more oversteer

as I say again theres no rule, depends on ur combo as they all work with each other and driving style

gelo

26-05-2006, 11:10 PM

having the front lower than the rear is to improve corner exits
when u acclerate out of a corner u shift the weight from front to the back
having the front lower front when u exit a corner, the car will be more balanced as u accelerate

corner exit speed is more important in racing

BlitZ

27-05-2006, 02:26 PM

there is alot of consideration for this discussion....
Basically its about achieving a balance...
as already said...

high rear/low front- the better the traction/exit speed... but it caused initial understeer causing very bad turn in..

low rear/high front- better turn in... no traction out of corners..

for drag.... there is nothing better than the run high rate springs and raising rear.
for track ..... Its more about balance... There is alot more to consider.. there is also spring rates, track conditions... weight shifting is plays a heavy factor on track. You rear might seem alittle high but upon acceleration you car might pan flat.. it will all depends on car, spring rate, engine mount condition. etc etc etc...

Q_ball

27-05-2006, 02:35 PM

Summed up well Dan :)

matt

07-07-2006, 01:24 PM

i had my rear springs replaced with correct ones on wednesday so i thought i post on this again.

turn in is much better now that the rear is at the right height compared to front, and much less understeer in general.
car feels much more stable than previously.

i was quite amazed at the difference compared to after i had the springs fitted first time around.