pods on civics,

[da_doc]

hi can anybody give me a few pros and cons for getting or not getting a pod air thing for my civic...

[Terry]

oil pressure and air flow is very important for VTEC engines....therefore factory airbox is the best and if u really want to use pod air filer.....get the DC2 airbox setting....they use pod filter inside the box

[chunky]

in the movies they are always portrayed as cheap ass cars
eg. in gone in 60 seconds the guy says : we are talking about professinals here no visible damage to lockin mechanisms or steering coloumns and as you can see these are not HONDA CIVICS this is one of 3 new mercedes a car they say is unstealable.

catch my drift?

[da_doc]

point taken cheers.

[tRipitaka]

pro's:
will help your car breathe better..
more performance..

con's:
oil type filters are illegal in most if not all states..

have a read of the many threads on SRI (Short Ram Intake) and CAI's (Cold Air Intake) and decide what you wanna get..

SRI -
pro's - faster throttle response
con's - heatsoak, sucks up heat from engine bay

CAI -
pro's - cooler air i.e. more performance
con's - filter gets dirtier due to being close to the ground, possible hydrolock if you drive into a "large puddle"

[crx_boy7]

lolz terry it a POD lolz

if u want piping u mite aswell du it right and get a cold air intake

theres not any real cons of getting a pod exept u use a lil more feul and the engine bay becomes noisy

[destrukshn]

i think you'll get hydrlock either way if you drive intor a river.
=/

[tRipitaka]

theres not any real cons of getting a pod exept u use a lil more feul and the engine bay becomes noisy
actually, not exactly..
when i put a pod on my car, i got more kms outta a tank..

okok, edited just for u destrukshn :)

[Setanta]

Read my post ( #19 ) here on why it's pretty pointless getting a pod filter:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11422

Actual post is here on Pods and why they are pointless on an unmodded car:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=155562&postcount=19

[crx_boy7]

but most pod filter elements offer less restriction to airflow, which means less vacum, which means more air into the engine, and also more throttle responce

another advantige is the circular shape helps direct air better into the circular intake tube, and can offer larger area of filter cloth,paper in a smaller houing
but if u dont box it up and only let it breath cold air it may offer less power once the engine is warmed up

[crx_boy7]

actually, not exactly..
when i put a pod on my car, i got more kms outta a tank..

okok, edited just for u destrukshn :)
let me rephase that, if u add the pod and use the equivalent pedal angle to your previons driving syle the ecu should add more feul to match the extra air
but ur car will exelarate faster so u wouldnt need that much throttle

and yea cai can get hydrolock, but this is a seriously overrated problem as iv read threads where people have driven through deep puddles where the filter has touched the water(in this case a k&n)
about 20% saturated and no hydrolock, however the k&n is an oil type thingo and as eveyone knows oil and water dont mix

[mugeneration]

pros:
- makes your exhaust sound hot
- lets your engine suck in more air, as it has more of a surface area than a panel filter
- looks pretty good in your engine bay
- slightly better throttle response
- slightly better fuel economy

cons:
- unless done properly, totally illegal
- CAI needs regular cleaning
- CAI can cause hydrolock
- You'll have to clean it yourself, your mechanic wont clean it/replace it

[dsp26]

pro's:
will help your car breathe better..
more performance..

con's:
oil type filters are illegal in most if not all states.. due to risk of engine fire from heat or backfire up the intake valves and back to the plenum

have a read of the many threads on SRI (Short Ram Intake) and CAI's (Cold Air Intake) and decide what you wanna get..

SRI/WAI -
pro's - faster throttle response
con's - heatsoak, sucks up heat from engine bay <-- Not when combined with a CAI tube feeding it. It doesn't take long for it to cool down.

CAI -
pro's - cooler air i.e. more performance
con's - filter gets dirtier due to being close to the ground, possible hydrolock if you drive into a "large puddle"
is also the least responsive due to the longer path and more bends

http://forum.pulsar.org.au/showthread.php?t=52934&highlight=CAI+WAI
^^^ disregard that test was conducted on SR20. same physics apply to every car.



A TRUE INTAKE SYSTEM CONSISTS OF:
- Tuned length straight pipe (AFM/MAF in optimum position)
- Thermo Spacers
- Heat wrap around the pipe
- Bypass valve
- Decent POD

A DECENT BUDGET SYSTEM CONSISTS OF:
- retaining stock box
- replacement high flow panel filter
- widening of feed hole on box and replacing with a 3 inch pipe aimed at say a spare/empty air dam if you have a bodykit.

[egSi]

i recommend a reaplacement filter for your stock box man ala hi flow K&N

[Setanta]

but most pod filter elements offer less restriction to airflow, which means less vacum, which means more air into the engine, and also more throttle responce

another advantige is the circular shape helps direct air better into the circular intake tube, and can offer larger area of filter cloth,paper in a smaller houing
but if u dont box it up and only let it breath cold air it may offer less power once the engine is warmed up
Given atmospheric pressure, just how the hell does a Pod allow more air into the engine.

We are talking NA vehicles here. If you have:

a) more aggressive cams
b) beter exhaust system/headers (aka fully tuned)

you can allow the car to breath better, along with a pod.

A Pod by itself does absolutely nothing - put a stock car on a dyno yourself if you don't believe me.

A pod does NOT force more air into an engine through swirl characteristics or anything else as the butterfly valve in the throttle negates any value whatsoever. It's like saying the Hiclone increases power :D

The ONLY way to increse the volume/density of air swept into a cylinder is FORCED INDUCTION aka Turbo/Supercharger as it beats atmospheric pressure.

Simple Physics.

[da_doc]

so dose it or dose it not give you more km's per tank???

that the only reason i was concidering getting one, who eva answers this please take into account i drive like a pussy,(not really a speader) LOL

[dsp26]

so dose it or dose it not give you more km's per tank???

that the only reason i was concidering getting one, who eva answers this please take into account i drive like a pussy,(not really a speader) LOL

it does if you can control your right foot ;)... it should run the car a bit leaner due to the flow. An AFM/ECU cant compensate as well as you guys think.. though i have a high CR SR20, my A/F went from ~13.7:1 peak to 14.3:1 just by replacing the ribbed factory rubber intake with a smooth alloy one.


Given atmospheric pressure, just how the hell does a Pod allow more air into the engine.

We are talking NA vehicles here. If you have:

a) more aggressive cams
b) beter exhaust system/headers (aka fully tuned)

you can allow the car to breath better, along with a pod.

A Pod by itself does absolutely nothing - put a stock car on a dyno yourself if you don't believe me.

A pod does NOT force more air into an engine through swirl characteristics or anything else as the butterfly valve in the throttle negates any value whatsoever. It's like saying the Hiclone increases power :D

The ONLY way to increse the volume/density of air swept into a cylinder is FORCED INDUCTION aka Turbo/Supercharger as it beats atmospheric pressure.

Simple Physics.

well you try sucking through an unlit filtered cigarette then suck through a straw and tell me which one was more restrictive?!?!

remember that NA's create a venturi effect.. same as bunsen burners. the 4 strokes happening in the combustion chamber SUCK oxygen hence why a good intake system really matters in response.

also keep in mind that filters dont matter the same way on a turbo as exhaust flow is what dictates response on a snail :thumbsup:

[Setanta]

well you try sucking through an unlit filtered cigarette then suck through a straw and tell me which one was more restrictive?!?!

remember that NA's create a venturi effect.. same as bunsen burners. the 4 strokes happening in the combustion chamber SUCK oxygen hence why a good intake system really matters in response.

also keep in mind that filters dont matter the same way on a turbo as exhaust flow is what dictates response on a snail :thumbsup:

Let's use your analogy (which are slippery at the best of times).

Let's say you suck air through a cigarette at a constant rate to fill your mouth and lungs.

You then use a straw.

All being equal, a straw does NOT increase the capacity of your mouth and lungs.

It may increase the speed that the air gets to your lungs. But a panal filter is not a cigarette and a pod filter is definitely not a straw.

Now f*ck the stupid analogy off. Without other mods:

a) your exhaust cycle is not scavaging residual fumes any better than it did before (OP has not mentioned other mods). Volume has not improved. When it's full it's full and none of your dreams will change the laws of physics.

b) if a panal filter flows to max performance of your motor as does your pod, how has it improved the airflow?

Reality

I extensively tested a CAI, pod and panal setup on my SiR with zero other mods.

Panel 1: Custom made and bench flowed: 1KW @ FW improvement over stock.

Panel 2: K&N .5 KW @ FW

AEM CAI modified for a SiR engine bay: .5 KW @ FW Throttle response wasn't as sharp.

SRI K&N Pod: -3KW @ FW.

All tested with the engine bay closed and a fan at the front of the car.

20 years of building performance cars, from straight 6s, turbo and NA 4s and the odd V8 and I have never seen the improvements claimed by pod manufacturers for a simple bolt-on "modification".

Real workshops consider it a wank factop unless you go all out and make it part of a package. Of course, ricers claim otherwise.

[mugeneration]

Well if it doesnt do anything then why does the exhaust note get deeper?

[Setanta]

Well if it doesnt do anything then why does the exhaust note get deeper?

OMG... hahahaha.... quoted so you can't ever delete that post :D

[egSi]

im with setanta.

*looks at my oem setup*

get a K&N panel man

[simbadda54]

lol this has been covered like 50 times

[crx_boy7]

yea just get a k&n pannel if ur a lazy person, it provides good power benifits
and is legal!!

OMFG do i have to explane everything in perfect details?!?!?!?!??!!?!?FAAAAA

ok look the way the engine breaths in is by the piston moving down, this creates vacum which sucks air into the cylinder, the air has a certain amount of time to get in before the valve blocks it off.obviously the more air that the engine can suck in the more power it will deliver.
the air has restictions like the size of the valves and all the other crap in the engine and then u have ur TB. and ur filter

ur engine has a certail demand for air per second which in Wide Open Throttle mode causes a vacume to be created between the filter and the valves, so obviously the lower this vacum is the more air can be sucked in by the piston, AND SOOO...
if ur filter is less restrictive ther will be less vacum in ur manifold and more air will get into the engine
GOT IT????

the reason for the SRI type making low power is that its sucking in warm air(low density air), with a low conentration of oxigen which is required for the fire to ignite and so less air means less feul for the same air/feul ratio, and generally has the same effect as a loose throttle cable or about 80% throttle

u should be ashamed of yourself for causing me to waist my time typeing up something so simple

[mugeneration]

OMG... hahahaha.... quoted so you can't ever delete that post :D

No, i mean really, you claim it doesnt do a thing over a stock filter or a good panel filter? May sound noobish but if it doesnt make any difference at all then why does the note get deeper when you swap from a stock filter to a good panel/pod?

[kyle]

Just got back from the Inspection centre to remove my Yellow Sticker, After chattting to the guy, he says that POD filters are legal now. As long as the intake arm is secured to the chassis firmly and all your stock sensors and emission hoses are plugged in they are fine. This has just changed here in WA dunno if the other states have thou?

[crx_boy7]

because the pastic absorbs the noise, thats why the use long complicated induction pipes as standard

[kyle]

I can see where CRX-boy is coming from but you are slightly off mate.

Your correct in saying that there is a vacuum created between the piston and the end of the filter.

Stock intake = restrictive, more vacuum
POD = low restriction less vacuum

Now say the effort the engine is putting in is constant between both intakes, therefor this effort can be represented by a constant power(ie my 600watt dyson vacuum cleaner)

Now this vacuum cleaner, is it going to suck up more dirt off my floor with more vacuum or less? More vaccum of course! But doesn't it do this with my restrictive ribbed vaccum hose???

Now think of dirt as oxygen. Is an engine with more or less vaccum going to suck in more oxygen?

[crx_boy7]

yea that may be the case but try and explain that to the cops, with his bling bling uniforn he thinks he rules the dam country, ever heard this??
"anything not stock is a defect"
that includes rust and tailpipes!! beleve me as iv had these defects

[crx_boy7]

umm ur confused,....
the reason the vacume gose down is because the cylinder is getting filled properly and dosent need more air

instead of counting dust u should feel the exhaust runner on ur vacume and tell me when u feel more air as its comeing out
please dont correct my posts unless uv thought about what ur saying

and my LG vaccum is 1600Watt - feel the burn yea..... lolz

[dsp26]

No, i mean really, you claim it doesnt do a thing over a stock filter or a good panel filter? May sound noobish but if it doesnt make any difference at all then why does the note get deeper when you swap from a stock filter to a good panel/pod?

its all in the aiflow characteristics.

why do cannons sound loud an any 4cyl car... the moment you have turbo it goes quieter....

[dsp26]

a) your exhaust cycle is not scavaging residual fumes any better than it did before (OP has not mentioned other mods). Volume has not improved. When it's full it's full and none of your dreams will change the laws of physics.

b) if a panal filter flows to max performance of your motor as does your pod, how has it improved the airflow?

Reality

I extensively tested a CAI, pod and panal setup on my SiR with zero other mods.

Panel 1: Custom made and bench flowed: 1KW @ FW improvement over stock.

Panel 2: K&N .5 KW @ FW

AEM CAI modified for a SiR engine bay: .5 KW @ FW Throttle response wasn't as sharp.

SRI K&N Pod: -3KW @ FW.

All tested with the engine bay closed and a fan at the front of the car.

20 years of building performance cars, from straight 6s, turbo and NA 4s and the odd V8 and I have never seen the improvements claimed by pod manufacturers for a simple bolt-on "modification".

Real workshops consider it a wank factop unless you go all out and make it part of a package. Of course, ricers claim otherwise.

not disputing what you say... i actually agree that the stock box is the most superior in terms of overall power gain throughout the rpm range based on dyno testing and the many dynos of different setups i've collected.

in other peoples cases say mine from example...

going from 9.5:1 CR to 11:1 and adding aggressive high lift/duration cams soon... i will need the more free flowing effect certain materials in PODs have to allow for the bigger vaccum created by the demand of higher CR and big dur/lift cams... and in the name of getting the most air before the 3rd stroke to create more hp/tq.

that said i use a VERY free flowing pod that utilises a foam element... flows very well like theres no fitler there but we all know such material does SFA in filtering anyway.....

[Setanta]

As soon as you start modifying the characteristics of the engines internals, then yes, you will need a better induction system if yours has hit peak in slightly modified trim, aka a panel filter.

EG: My SiR put down 86 KW @ FW last run (2 years ago). That's stock for it's JDM spec with just the filter I use - as in 160ps @ FW. The results we were getting on the bench have led me to believe that the current setup will be good to approx 180ps with mods but after that will become a limiting factor.

With a rebuild (300,000 kms on the B16A) on the cards, I'm researching and collecting internal mods. But my goal is to ensure the car always looks stock, so I have picked up a few extra EF8/9 airboxes and am currently modifying them to improve airflow in a stealth manner as I know the limitations of my existing setup.

For someone who is simply putting a Pod on and not modifying extensively like you have, it's not necessary, and in NSW and Vic, Pods are trouble with an over zealous defender of the law - hence me doing the stealth route.

[Captiva_Blue]

The main gain you will get with a pod filter on an otherwise unmodified NA car is better throttle response as you are lessening a point of restriction in the intake system.

The panel filter in a stock EG measures approximately 180mm x 180mm. By comparison, my J's Racing Pod has a surface area of approcimately 600mm x 100mm giving it roughly twice the available surface area to filter air (not taking into account the surface area of the ribs on either filter), it is also made of far less restrictive material (wire cased oiled cotton as opposed to treated paper).

Your car will no be sucking in a greatly different volume of air to what is taken through the stock filter but wil be able to take it in quicker and with a higher density of oxygen. This is why it is often said that a pod equipped car revs harder and has a more responsive throttle. The higher oxygen density means that the car will run slightly lean and will get slightly better fuel economy (depending on how restrictive the original equipment is, maybe 5 - 10 km more per tank).

A properly set up SRI with a forced cold air feed will always give better gains than the stock equipment even with an aftermarket panel filter (same surface area but less restrictive, misses out on the extra surface area) but no really dramatic gains will be made with a filter modification of any sort unless other modifications are made which complement it (eg: optimised exhaust, advanced timing, reflashed ecu, cams etc).

[da_doc]

thanks people you have all been a great help.
now which trader(s), have and can give a good price air intake kit??
anyone?

[toorak_trash]

what are people's opinions on the Mugen air box? it has cai and sits a pob filter in the top

[Limbo]

Yup same has happened to me. Just rem to ask for his name and badge number, it usually make them perk up that they are gonna be checked on. NSW RAT allows modification so long as it does not break the noise limits and pollution levels. There are some other things to that but most cops think that anything not standard is a reason for them to catch you for easy pickings.

I'd print out the RTA modification book and show them what the law actually says in relation to mods.

P.S also get him to point out which section of they are booking you for.


yea that may be the case but try and explain that to the cops, with his bling bling uniforn he thinks he rules the dam country, ever heard this??
"anything not stock is a defect"
that includes rust and tailpipes!! beleve me as iv had these defects

[Limbo]

Have a look at this NSW RTA article
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi06.pdf