[Euro] ABS/VSC dilemma

[EuroDude]

Yesterday I was driving about 60km/h over a road that has those square concrete slabs (Pittwater Road, Syd), and one of the slabs had sunken like 5 cm before the lights.

When I was braking over this slab to stop at the lights, the brakes vibrated and the brake pedal went almost all the way to the floor. The car was not stopping like it should and it constantly vibrated even though i was now on a flat surface with full tyre traction. I couldnt stop at all! I tried to put more pressure down but it still had very little brake power. This happened over about 4 seconds.

In order to stop at the red lights, I had to lift of the brakes, and re-apply them, which was when the brakes functioned normally. I didnt notice the ABS light come on, is it supposed to? It must have flashed quickly I guess. Unless it was the VSC instead, but I didnt notice that light either.


Is this how ABS/VSC works?
Do you have to lift of the brakes to disengage ABS?
It almost seems that the ABS/VSC system computer is somewhat flawed in some situations.

[BiLL|z0r]

I think it's the ABS/VSA system and yes I've had almost the same thing although the car does pull up, just not as quick as if on level ground.
Near my work there is a paved section just before a stop sign and it's a couple cm's lower than the rest of the road and on a slight downhill slope. When I'm braking and drop onto the paved area it jitteres like ABS and sort of scares you a bit at first. I know it's there now and just slow down more as I approach that stop sign and it's ok.

[EuroDude]

Hmm thats a bit disturbing, well at least I know how to overcome it incase it happens again.

[MiSloVic]

yes, that's the ABS working.. it works by modulating and reducing braking pressure, that is the pulsating and vibration effect you get on the brake pedals.. and when they reduce brake pressure, that's when ur pedal goes all the way to the floor (in extreme cases)

have to agree that honda's ABS tend to recover slower than some cars, but trust that the engineers know their stuffs.

[aaronng]

Hmm, when when I had the ABS come on (slowing down and then going over a small pothole in the road), my pedal did not sink down to the floor. I had the same ABS vibration, but it was very short, only for about 1 second before I got grip back and the ABS stopped.

[xiang]

omg.. same thing happened to me Saturday morning. But i had to stop or i would have hit a car. I ended up yanking the handbrake and stopping like 2 cm from the car infront.

[thenozman]

Same thing happens to me at the same spot each day. The road is fairly corregated just before a speed bump. No loss in pedal feel.

[coyote]

I've had the same thing happen, and it can be pretty scary. Releasing and reapplying the brake is the only way around it, but you have to have quick reactions.

What's the car in your avatar by the way?

[EuroDude]

What's the car in your avatar by the way?

A artists impression of the concept 2008 Euro :)

[coyote]

A artists impression of the concept 2008 Euro :)

Nice! Where can I find the full size image?

[EuroDude]

Nice! Where can I find the full size image?

Clicky:
http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11596&highlight=2008
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107644

[coyote]

Thanks. Looks good, don't really like the back though.

[PERTH_EURO]

Releasing and reapplying the brake is the only way around it, but you have to have quick reactions.

If your car is abs equipped hold that peddle down. Dont release it. The computer can react quicker than anybody.

ABS stopping distances can be longer, but you have steering control during that time as opposed to a skid cenario. Have trust in your abs.
Go somwhere out of the way and try ur abs under full application or partial or whatever... know the car.

And my last point would be... drive to conditions...

[EuroDude]

Yeah but once the car is stable on flat ground and ABS disengaged, the brakes are too far to the ground and lost too much brake pressure, so you need to release and repress the brake if you need to stop at light etc..

[MiSloVic]

Yeah but once the car is stable on flat ground and ABS disengaged, the brakes are too far to the ground and lost too much brake pressure, so you need to release and repress the brake if you need to stop at light etc..

its strange that ur brake pedal goes so far to the ground.. the brake pedal does sink, a bit, but not all the way to the ground.

check if u have sufficient brake fluid in the reservoir, and if there are air in ur brake system..

[EuroDude]

its strange that ur brake pedal goes so far to the ground.. the brake pedal does sink, a bit, but not all the way to the ground.

check if u have sufficient brake fluid in the reservoir, and if there are air in ur brake system..

It only happened once though. ABS activated twice today and it only lost a tiny bit of pedal each time. So I guess the pedal loss depends on how much ABS works. Or maybe VSC was active and took the pedal pressure.

[yfin]

ABS activated twice today and it only lost a tiny bit of pedal each time. So I guess the pedal loss depends on how much ABS works. Or maybe VSC was active and took the pedal pressure.

How are you driving to get ABS to activate twice in one day?

Re the VSA (as opposed to ABS) - I find that there is no difference at all in brake pedal modulation. This could be due to the fact that the car is braking individual wheels as opposed to all 4.

PerthEuro has some good advice above - make sure you test the car in a safe environment and know how the car will respond. Eg on a wet night test VSA and emergency braking in a deserted area (I don't mean streets).

[EuroDude]

How are you driving to get ABS to activate twice in one day?

Re the VSA (as opposed to ABS) - I find that there ....

I was testing ABS by catching orange lights early (safely at low speed off course) instead of driving through them normally, which I used to do with my Civic with no problem, but the Euro being 400kg heavier requires a few extra meters to stop safely - plus Ive noticed ABS is a bit too sensitive. It would be nice if the wheel(s) skidded a tiny bit before violently activating ABS.

I may test the car in a deserted area when I get a chance. The pedal dropping to the floor was a one off instance (probably because the wheels were off the ground for an extended time), all other times the pedal pressure was acceptible.

Now I just gotta get used to a 1400kg ABS car after driving a 1000kg non-ABS car for 5 years ;)

[yfin]

If you think the Euro brakes are worse than your non-abs Civic - you are being too gentle on the Euro brakes.

You have to hit the brakes hard - really hard and fast if you want to test an emergency stop in this car. The brake assist will kick in and I can assure you it will pull up quick. Give it a go - but be much harder on the pedal than a non-abs car.

In one of those Wheels Safety tests (when the Euro was the benchmark or some other term they used) - the Euro was 1st in emergency braking in the cars tested. The cars tested weren't anything amazing but there was definately a BMW 330 there. So it does "ok" compared to many other cars. Someone will have the link as I can't find it at the moment.

Also to note that in the TSX - Temple of VTEC reported a huge improvement with non-oem brake pads.

[EuroDude]

Yeah I heard about non-OEM brakes being great, although it may void my extended dealer warranty (extra 3 years, 6 total) if I use non-OEM parts :(

The brakes seem fine, I dont find them too spongy. Its just ABS that I find too sensitive sometimes.

[Tobster]

Yeah I heard about non-OEM brakes being great, although it may void my extended dealer warranty (extra 6 years) if I use non-OEM parts
You can use "non-genuine" parts -- so long as they're "of equivalent or better quality" -- so that it can't be argued that it's the part that may have caused a warranty concern.

(Otherwise it contravenes the trade practices act or whatever it is... It's the same argument about whether the car has to be serviced by a dealer -- which it doesn't -- so long as they use use equivalent or better parts.)

[EuroDude]

The dealer offers an extra 3 years warranty ontop of hte standard 3 years from Honda, but they said it would be cancelled if I get it serviced anywhere else. Not sure if my own servicing affects it though, I guess I could buy the brakes and get the dealer to install them. I'll look into it.

[aaronng]

Brake pads are not part of a service item, so you can change it to any brand you want. For our Holden Astra, we had the same thing. Extended 2 year warranty from the dealer, but we have to service it there. The service manager told me regular service items must be from them (servicing, timing belt, etc), but items such as engine oil and brake pads could be of any brand. And he also said, I could have the pads replaced at any mechanic as well and still keep the warranty.

Ask your dealer.

[EuroDude]

I see, yeah I'll ask my dealer.

cheers.

[boggyhole]

Honda has announced the recall of some 412,000 vehicles in the United States because of problems with "soft" brakes in the latest major blow to the embattled Japanese auto industry. Interesting. Australia's recall?? Anyone??

Mine did this when reversing out of the driveway. Had to apply the hand brake!!