clutch shudder in Euro

[socheerio]

Somebody I know is getting some intermittent shudder from the clutch - near-new Euro. Is this a normal characteristic of these cars or does it herald a problem?

[Chris_F]

maybe something to do with the DBW throttle. Tell him to try giving it a little more gass when he takes off... never really heard of this being a problem before

[euro1978]

How new is the car ?

I think that the euro takes some time to get used to driving well so if its brand spankers - put a few thousand more kms on it and see if there is still a a problem.

[EuroDude]

I find that launching in first at 1000rpm or lower causes shudder, but launching at around 1500rpm-1800rpm is smooth.

Its a whole learning process moving from 2 Cone synchro gears to the Euro's 3 cones. I'm still learning after 3000km lol, at least the gearbox is freeing up now.

[Chris_F]

upgrading the clutch and going to a lighter flywheel also amplifies this characteristic. My car will shudder taking off if i dont initially give it close to 2k rpm.

[aaronng]

Drive by wire reduces the throttle response at take off so that it makes it "smoother". They should have left it alone. If you give it more throttle at the same time as releasing the clutch, take off is very smooth. Don't drive it the same way as you drove your previous cars. You have to relearn for the Euro. Unfortunate, hey?

[socheerio]

Its fairly subtle. Not like the whole car shakes and shudders. Sounds like it might be a characteristic then? Car has not yet reached 1000km.

[corn_flakes]

i've done about 2100kms in my euro now (picked up in mid march)...

when i first drove it i noticed how stiff changing from 1st to 2nd was....kind of annoyed me for a bit...

but now at about 2100kms on the clock, i feel that it's free-ed up a bit more and changing into 2nd is much easier with less resistance...yay!

oh, and just an off topic question....when does vtec kick in for our euros? what rpm range?? i don't really feel much of a significant response....=(

i drove my friend's h22a accord, and shit it kicks in HARD after 5000rpm....and yes i know it's a h22a, but even with a vti-r prelude that i drove felt like vtec was much 'louder' and more noticeable....

[Chris_F]

it's because the k24 is an i-vtec engine. There is no one VTEC kick. "vtec" actually engages twice, a less agressive one at 4krpm or so and the most agressive at about 6000rpm. With ecu tuning such as hondata the kick is even further reduced. Because the came angle is constanlty variable, in theory there should be no vtec kick at all if tuned properly just a smooth and linear powerband. So the i-vtec may feel slower but thats because its already developing more power and torque at a lower rpm so you dont feel the last rush as much.

and the stiff changes of the euro box is due to the tripple syncros as someone mentioned in another thread

[EuroDude]

Chris are you sure there is a VTEC that kicks in at 4000rpm?

Ive beentold that it only kicks in at 6000rpm, along with the variable cam timing which is variable depending on RPM and throttle.

[corn_flakes]

what about some crap i heard about vtec getting "shut off" when u hit the rev limiter???

i heard some ppl talking about how vtec doesn't kick in anymore if u hit the rev limiter or over rev...and some crap about having to reset the ecu again...

sorry if i sound noobish, but i know nothing about hondas and vtec...this is my first honda...:(

[Tobster]

This my first Honda and I've hit the fuel cut-off in 1st a couple of times (it's just so easy to do -- it revs so fast and smooth). It's the first time in any car that I've ever done it. Everything is fine: the fuel cuts off and the revs drop, you change gear (going "Ooops") and keep going...

Back to the "shudder" -- it doesn't actually feel like the clutch to me: it's more like a really strong resonance at low revs. I don't have a sports exhaust on my car, but I've collected quite a few vids of how different ones sound (research): they all seem to have that resonant boom right down low when the revs drop. I'd put it down to a lack of low-end torque (trade off for the high power output from a small engine) and resonance. As others have said, a few more revs on board overcomes it.

[MalGib]

On the clutch shudder issue ... I've found that taking off in 1st gear at anything below 2000rpm hopeless ... the engine stutters around like a wet fish out of water. I generally pick up the clutch at 2000 to 2500rpm, feed it throttle and gradule clutch take-up without letting the revs fall below about 2500rpm. The Euro motor is torque-less and useless below 2000rpm, except when crawling along in peak hour traffic!

If your clutch shudder is happening at any other time or another gear (other than taking off in 1st) I suggest you take it back to the dealer to check it out. Other than bad clutch-engaging habits, there should not be any shudder ... I've not experienced any myself.

On the vtec "kick" ... definately something happens at or around the 4000rpm mark, there is no doubt of that ... the motor spins like a top starting 3500 to 4000 then all the way up to redline. I've never found any other 'kick' coming in at 6000rpm ... might be true for other Honda vtec motors but not for the Euro.

The only thing I find at and above 6000rpm is the motor pitch changes to a screech like someones stepped on the cats tail ... its an awful stressed and strained sound, doesnt sound right at all. I avoid pushing it up to 6000 or beyond, and if I'm looking for performance I'll take it to 5500rpm before changing gears.

[Tobster]

On the vtec "kick" ... definately something happens at or around the 4000rpm mark, there is no doubt of that ... the motor spins like a top starting 3500 to 4000 then all the way up to redline. I've never found any other 'kick' coming in at 6000rpm ... might be true for other Honda vtec motors but not for the Euro.

The only thing I find at and above 6000rpm is the motor pitch changes to a screech like someones stepped on the cats tail ... its an awful stressed and strained sound, doesnt sound right at all. I avoid pushing it up to 6000 or beyond, and if I'm looking for performance I'll take it to 5500rpm before changing gears.
That's interesting -- you can't feel the cam change (I think it's actually about 5800)? It's quite clear in my car -- especially if you're accelerating not WOT. There's a little jolt, and the engine suddenly feels much easier and more fluid. I find the most strained or rough feeling part of the rev band is actually about 4-5K.

[aaronng]

You feel that there is a kick because the peak torque of the K24A3 is at 4500rpm. Switchover to high-cam is at 6000rpm, with VTC altering the timing through the entire rev range. If you hit the limiter, you still have VTEC working. I haven't tried overrevving and I don't want to.

On my car, the strained part is 2000-3000rpm. After 4000rpm, it's sweet and smooth.