Tuning a Euro for the circuit...where to start?

[Ajay-GD]

Does anyone have any advice on how it would be best to tune a euro for a track event? I still haven't bought my exhast, headers, or intake.....and am still reviewing my ecu options....and any advice on the suspension? all the internals of my car are still a blank canvas....Im trying to get the best setup for the track...

[EuroAccord13]

Search the forums mate :) Lots of modification talk on the Euro... Advice and Reviews etc... I'm sure you will find it all in abundance :) !

One member of this forum I can refer you to is Baboo.. He's the Euro track guru.. Talk to him, he'll be more than happy to help you out... If not I'll slap a ban stick on him *JOKING BABOO!!!!* :D

Good luck to your track car build up.. :D

[wynode]

This (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24579) might help also.

[aaronng]

I just took mine on the track stock. What I found was that you need:
1) thicker rear sway bar
2) better tyres
3) slightly higher spec brake pads

These 3 should be first before power mods. Even stock, I couldn't use all the power in the tight corners because it would understeer.

After that, look at coilovers.

[yfin]

Does anyone have any advice on how it would be best to tune a euro for a track event? I still haven't bought my exhast, headers, or intake.....and am still reviewing my ecu options....and any advice on the suspension? all the internals of my car are still a blank canvas....Im trying to get the best setup for the track...

If you are really serious about making a track car - have you thought about selling the auto for the manual version? You will gain more seconds on the track than i/h/e on the auto. Just a thought. I think going nuts on the auto version is not a good canvas to start with.

[Ajay-GD]

selling the car isn't an option, and I wouldn't want to either, I love my car. My friends are starting a car club and they want to do some circuit work. So there I am stuck around civics, silvias, RX7s and skylines......is there any way to strengthen the Automatic transmission? and if so do you guys know any workshops around sydney side? oh and thanks you all for the advice.....

[jamchen]

maybe refer to tsxclub in the states....
i am pretty sre they got all the ideas you want including turbo lol...
my yeah as aarong suggested... i'd start my mods from safety... better tyres... better suspension... and if u r really a track dude.. up-grade ur brakes... u dun wanna ended up in an accident becoz u can't stop in time...
its just my two cents...

[EuroAccord13]

As above, outright handling in a car built for circuit is a priority, with power but no handling, you are more prone to losing control of the vehicle.

Nothing wrong with an auto, it'll still make a good track car if you use sequential shifting.

As for strengthening the transmission, a friend of mine had his tranny dipped in some sort of acid stuff that supposingly strengthens it, might wanna check up on that :)


Above all that, it's not about winning :), it's about having FUN on the track and gaining valuable experience in handling your car :)

[Slugoid]

As a minimum, tyres, brake pads and alignment would be my pick. Chassis brace, sway bars, coilovers or spings/shocks would be my next upgrade. Seriously, the Euro has more than enough power for track and you shouldn't need more power especially when it's your first time. You should just go on track, get a feel for the track and improve on your skills. You'd be suprised how much faster you can go once you're familiar with the track and found a good line for your car that you can stick to. Most importantly, have fun.

It's you that makes the car go fast, not your car.

[aaronng]

I'd choose rear sway bar before brake pads. The stock pads are good enough. After quite a few laps, they end up feeling like a hard or nothing brake pad. But it does still stop hard. After the track day, change the fluid and take the pads out and sand it a little bit (about 3 seconds worth of sanding with coarse abrasive paper).

[Chris_F]

good tyres, suspension, brakes - roughly in that order to get you on the track as quick as possible. Personally I'd wait untill you have some higher temp brake pads. Brake fade wouldnt be too fun in a high speed corner especially if you decide to brake a bit later after you build confidence from the first few laps.

[Ajay-GD]

Thanks all.....I've checked the tsx forum, but I'd rather get some local knowledge, :) and I'm not a nut who'd try to turbo it. Well I guess brakes and suspension is top priority now!

[driven]

brakes, coilovers and tyres would be a good start.

If you're on a budget for brakes,
just get good pads(i've got high temp pads for the euro, both front and rear for sale btw), steel braided brakelines and high temp brake fluid.

or if you've got the cash, aftermarket calipers!
4 pot- spoon, willwood
6 pot- AP racing, endless

Coilovers, got a wide range available. Tein, buddyclub, endless zeal, aragosta etc.

tyres, get a good set of street tyres(AD07, RT615, RE01 etc.) or if you've got the cash, run semi slicks(R888,RE55s,A048,D02j,D01 etc) or get a set of track rims and chuck semi slicks on them.


as for the other mods that you've mentioned.
if you havent got a budget

Header-Maximworks (other options, comptech, Toda, DC sports, six sigma)
Intake-GruppeM (comptech, Injen, Mugen)
exhaust-Amuse! or maybe the J's racing. Both are full titanium catback systems.(5zigen, buddyclub, comptech,Mugen,Spoon N1 etc.)

and while you're at it, get a heavy duty clutch, lighter flywheel and possibly a LSD. and you're good to go!

[Chris_F]

^^ driven has very good advice.

the performance mods he list sound very familiar - good quality stuff

[enkay]

haha damn u and your mods hehe gruppieM *drools* haha hmms.. yep listen to driven very wise man! haha and mayb for performace wait for the hondatech stuff to come out? mayb? i duno ehhe just suggesting

[Chris_F]

if i had my time again the majority of my budget would go purely to handling mods, they are the most fun IMO

hondatech package would give you more than enough power. bang for buck though... don't underestimate a lightweight flywheel and good clutch, that's my favourite "power" mod so far

[BiLL|z0r]

He has an auto so not much use to him.

[Ronin 09]

Make it stop and go around corners... that makes a good track car.

"driven" has some good suggestions above, but remember that to make the most of r-compound tyres, you'll need more camber and castor than with road tyres to make the most of them at the track... alot of people forget that you need to be more agressive with your alignment settings if you run semis.

If you haven't had much track experience - stick to standard road tyres... and you don't need alot of mods to hit the track. Get out there and learn the car first, and then when you've got you head around it, then you can tweak it to go faster round the track!

Have fun!

[aaronng]

If I was using R compound tyres, I'd seriously be thinking about a baffled sump....

[TypeG]

auto...... yr pads gotta replace pretty quick

[Ajay-GD]

Any one else got advice on what to do with the transmission?

[Chris_F]

lower final drive, hd clutch, lightweight flywheel

[aaronng]

Any one else got advice on what to do with the transmission?
Not much for the Auto. You can trade your car in for a manual though.

[yfin]

lower final drive, hd clutch, lightweight flywheel

good advice for manual drivers - but doesn't help the auto owners.

[BusterSonic12]

put a super or turbo charger. add NOS. You are set~!!! jokes :P i m noob...
rip your rear seats out? and spare wheels, to lighten the ride??

[aaronng]

Actually, I read at the TSX forums that the auto box is more suitable for supercharger use as it is tougher than the manual box. Wonder how true this is....

[Chris_F]

stock for stock it may indeed be true... but id prefer a manual tranny with a HD clutch. Not sure if it would last as long, but it'd be a lot more fun and give the driver a lot more control. I dont think an auto could ever truely entertain me, especially not on a track

[stephen8512]

Actually, I read at the TSX forums that the auto box is more suitable for supercharger use as it is tougher than the manual box. Wonder how true this is....

ive also heard this about the mark IV supra's.
the RZ twin turbo in auto have stronger boxes and thus can handle the amt of boost coming from the twin turbos, or in some cases, a huge single one

[aaronng]

I reckon modern autoboxes from good manufacturers are pretty tough. The only downside is the limit at which the input shaft can spin as the torque convertor can't handle too high an input RPM.

[Ajay-GD]

A friend advised me to get a better torque convertor, would that help?

[Chris_F]

ive heard of some TSX guys looking at this option - probably would help you launch the car? :confused:

[aaronng]

Better yet, find a way to lockup the torque convertor at a lower RPM. At the moment, I think it locks up at about 5000ish?

[Ajay-GD]

A bit off topic here, but which engine is more tunable, the K20 or K24?......I'm going to japan early next year, and I*was recommended to find a Euro R front cut, and do a swap, I know that it's a little absurd, but hey, I can get that damn manual transmission that way. costly. but an option....

[enkay]

ajay i think u will find the k20 more tunable well at least i think haha =P good luck with the euro r swap

[yfin]

A bit off topic here, but which engine is more tunable, the K20 or K24?......I'm going to japan early next year, and I*was recommended to find a Euro R front cut, and do a swap, I know that it's a little absurd, but hey, I can get that damn manual transmission that way. costly. but an option....
waste of time and money imo considering you need to ship half a car from Japan and getting that half cut on the road in your Euro will cost plenty of $$$. The Comptech Supercharger for the K24 would be better bang for buck and far more powerful than a stock Euro R. The K24 has plenty of potential as we have seen with the preliminary Hondata results - so why you would want to go to a lower displacement engine with less torque I have no idea.

[Ajay-GD]

the reason I got that idea, was because, I hear a lot of people saying that the k24 is a hard engine to tune...and I also see that the k20 has a lot more aftermarket support......oh and the uniqueness :P but I see your point too, yfin.....

[Chris_F]

you'll find a lot of parts for the k20 in the euro R fit the k24. From headers, intake, exhaust to flywheel, final drive etc. IMO, the k24 is a better base engine to have in a heavier car than the k20. Why else would people bother taking the k24 block form a crv and putting on a k20 head? "poor mans TSX engine".

Use what the euro comes with, it's more than good enough if your gonna seriously mod it, the only limitation is the short supply of tuneable ecu's. In saying that you can choose from MOTEC m400 and above and EFI Euro1 and above (both of which can run the euros drive-by-wire).

Well that's my opinion, do a bit of research and i think you'll agree.. staying with the k24 is the way to go :thumbsup:

[enkay]

hehe oo i found this video of a k24a tuned =P its in a civic thou and its vs' a k20a car http://youtube.com/watch?v=4yMSgESvUoQ&search=jrsc

[MKI4EVA]

Does anyone have any advice on how it would be best to tune a euro for a track event? I still haven't bought my exhast, headers, or intake.....and am still reviewing my ecu options....and any advice on the suspension? all the internals of my car are still a blank canvas....Im trying to get the best setup for the track...

Sorry if I've missed it but have you been to a track event yet?

[Ajay-GD]

Nope MK, haven't been to the track yet

[aaronng]

Go to the track first. Then you'll know which areas you need to tune/replace.

[Omotesando]

On a track top end power and gear ratios is more important. :(
Power drop in the Euro Accord at 5000rpm would be fairly annoying. Especially if after every corner that is the area u hit most!

If u want 9000rpm then its K20A! But honestly the stock Euro engine is better IMO as long as the ECU can fix the power delivery hole.

[aaronng]

On a track top end power and gear ratios is more important. :(
Power drop in the Euro Accord at 5000rpm would be fairly annoying. Especially if after every corner that is the area u hit most!

If u want 9000rpm then its K20A! But honestly the stock Euro engine is better IMO as long as the ECU can fix the power delivery hole.
Even if you had a 9000rpm K20A in your CL9 Euro, you wouldn't be able to make any use of the power as you would be encountering understeer as soon as you touch the accelerator in the 60km/h corners. For track, the Euro's engine is still ahead of the suspension. For the street, it's the other way around.

[Omotesando]

That's completely true in the first part.
But if u notice carefully I said 'after every corner'.
That is where the extra power-band from the K20 becomes mighty useful exiting a 60kph corner and onto the straight. It gives it more straight line speed with top end power, especially for that exit gear. That means a stock Euro engine wouldn't be able to chase after a higher revving vehicle.

The other thing is, with less mid-range torque, the car during cornering should react less to power-on understeer which is currently limiting the cornering ability of a better neutral chassis.

The main problem with the Euro's engine on the track is - as I've said, its lack of top end power. Lack of cornering exit speed. Also lack of speed as you change from one gear to another gear, with the torque hole.

Needs ECU tune.. :)

[aaronng]

Well, a 20km/h head start is quite a bit. I am not sure if even a K20A CL9 would be able to get it back. If I am able to get that 20km/h back by doing only suspension work($2000-2500), I'd pick that over a 9000rpm K20A ($9000). Torque at the wheels depends if you use a CL7 gear box with the k20A. If you do, then the torque at the wheels is similar or even more than the CL9.

On the track, the engine is #3. The first 2 are the suspension (including tyres) and the weight. If it was only on the straight line, then I'd go for peak power too.

Just my 2 cents.