Tractions bars

[BlitZ]

Anyone running traction bar...

I spoke to a friend about them as he has them in his teg...

Ive also read some reviews about them..

They seem to be :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I only want them to assist in my handling aspect.... :thumbsup: or :thumbdwn: ...

yesh yesh.. they were designed for wheel hope only.. but everyone believes they improve much more than that... :confused:

[Q_ball]

Ive also heard that you have to remove a few engine bay componants to install the traction bars...yay or nay? :confused:

[BlitZ]

Ive also heard that you have to remove a few engine bay componants to install the traction bars...yay or nay? :confused:

would u know which components?

[|N|]

dan ... u got any pics?

[Q_ball]

Best person to ask is possibly Yonas.
I more than likely got the information he told me about traction bars all muddled up so yeh...pm him :)
Sorry for the confusion.

[Tu88y]

Best person to ask is possibly Yonas.
I more than likely got the information he told me about traction bars all muddled up so yeh...pm him :)
Sorry for the confusion.


Noob.........

[CRXer]

Good write-up on traction bars here (http://www.full-race.com/articles/traction_bars.pdf)

[BlitZ]

You also pay for what u get.... the crap brands apparently bind and bend. and the castor setting and stuff is ahrder to set...


http://www.etdracing.com/ebay/egtract.jpg

[|N|]

interesting... so basically this is to reenforce the chassis? the pic as shown is abit too thin to support the so it connects to the thingy(cant remember the name) htat U shape thing and then under the car?.

[bennjamin]

It mounts to existing locations to provide a solid connection between the chassis and lower suspension arm ~ its supposed to eliminate wheel hop and tire shake, transmits forces into chassis and keeps weight over the front end for better "traction"

[BlitZ]

anyone with one? track impressions?

[dsp26]

anyone with one? track impressions?

bump on this...

i read the full tech posted by CRXer in post#7.. however wanting real life experiences on this and impressions...

[bennjamin]

imo avoid Ron. If your still having clearance issues at the front with your header this traction bar will make matters worse. they hang pretty low and close to most headers

[DLO01]

I think they are great. Car feels so much settled under acceleration, especially if your breaking traction. No need to remove anything. All I needed to remove was the plastic cover underneath. It all mounts to existing points. For the DC2 and most others its the front tow hook points and existing bolts on the LCA. I have the ETD ones. Definatly get a well know proven quality bar. As said inferior makes will mess with the geometry of your sussy and will cause binding. ETD ones have the two points on the LCA where as other only have the one. The ETD ones are also height adjustable (main bar) So if your low this will help.

Sorry have not got many install photos.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC05969.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC05976.jpg

[dsp26]

imo avoid Ron. If your still having clearance issues at the front with your header this traction bar will make matters worse. they hang pretty low and close to most headers

nuts.

i was wondering coz when i went to wsid a few weeks ago, according to fatboyz from the sideline i was getting wheel hop (despite having solid mounts all around as you know).. but watching videos taped by a mate.. it seems i'm not getting wheel hop coz the tyres weren't moving but rather the entire car was hopping instead???


***EDIT***
deano... been reading your posts on this at crxaustralia... do you have pics of them installed from the front ort of under the car?

[bennjamin]

I think they are great. Car feels so much settled under acceleration, especially if your breaking traction. No need to remove anything. All I needed to remove was the plastic cover underneath. It all mounts to existing points. For the DC2 and most others its the front tow hook points and existing bolts on the LCA. I have the ETD ones. Definatly get a well know proven quality bar. As said inferior makes will mess with the geometry of your sussy and will cause binding.


what header , and what ride height are you running ? any clearance issues ?

Ron what suspension are you running now days ?

[dsp26]

Ron what suspension are you running now days ?

running KYB AGX on dc2r springs.... was previously set on 2 damp all round and felt crap.. set it to 3f/2r and it felt like a stock dc2r.. set it to 4f/3r tonight and it feels very nice.. who knows that may fix my bounce issue....

was looking into the traction bar coz this lower tie bar that does nothing at the moment makes my car lower than it should :( just don't have the heart to take it off at the moment at the chance it does improve something since i've already paid for and installed it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Maintenance/PIC00034.jpg

[DLO01]

deano... been reading your posts on this at crxaustralia... do you have pics of them installed from the front ort of under the car?

I'll try and get some more photos tomorrow, but no promises, its a busy day being a father and all. :p


what header , and what ride height are you running ? any clearance issues ?

It won't interfear with headers, all the bars go around them and stay clear. I have no header, just a 3 inch dump pipe close to the sump. My flex pipe is the lowest point. At my car height the ETD main bar has marginally under 100mm ground clearance. That is with it at its lowest adjustment, I could raise is another 2 heights.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/My%20Integra%20Type%20R/IMG_9654.jpg

[bennjamin]

*Ron that looks close. A hard launch that bounces your wheels could see that tiebar tapping against the collector. A traction bar will mount very similar to that shown plus more

[fatboyz39]

traction bar is worth it. No they dont hang LOW. Get the right ones. Also we use the traction bar as a jacking point rather then on the stock radiator support which tends to bend. Header clearence is fine, but all comes down to the deisgn of the traction bar. We use toda, Big tube tri-y, Buddy club headers on our B series and no problems with clearence.

[bennjamin]

tell us some brands to check out and some to avoid.....ive only experienced EBAY knock offs that look very weak.

[dsp26]

so there are few here that already have it...

so what are the actual improvements? and how do you use it as a jacking point? just jack the bar? also i'm guessing you can't re-mount the tow hooks on top of the trac bar mounting bracket?

and what are the benefits of raising/lowering the mounting point or is that simply for clearance?

[DLO01]

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2379992

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1156671

:thumbsup:

[DLO01]

so there are few here that already have it...

so what are the actual improvements? and how do you use it as a jacking point? just jack the bar? also i'm guessing you can't re-mount the tow hooks on top of the trac bar mounting bracket?

and what are the benefits of raising/lowering the mounting point or is that simply for clearance?

I still use the existing point to jack up the car. But yeh, you can use the Traction bar/main bar to jack up. It would be a good idea to jack near the side mount points though. Maybe I am just a girl.

No need to re-mount the old tow hook. The new bar is your tow hook, it has a slot cut in them for this purpose. Not sure on other brands, but the ETD ones do. See my photo above.

Raising and lowering the main bar is for clearance purposes only. I think only the ETD ones do this.

[dsp26]

^^sweet. and how much was shipping from the states?

[DLO01]

so what are the actual improvements?

Sorry. Benifits are under harsh accleration. The stock arms and bushes flex under forward and backward movement, ie under acceleration the tires want to move forward before the rest of the car. This is what causes your hop or unsettleness. The traction bar locks in this movement.

[dsp26]

Sorry. Benifits are under harsh accleration. The stock arms and bushes flex under forward and backward movement, ie under acceleration the tires want to move forward before the rest of the car. This is what causes your hop or unsettleness. The traction bar locks in this movement.

fair enough, would you say this is an alternative to upgrading the front suspension bushings?

[DLO01]

^^sweet. and how much was shipping from the states?

http://www.etdracing.com/traction.html

[EG5]

I tried full race and avid racing traction bar
Worth every single cents , We used them for circuit with EGK20A and quater mile aswell on EGK24A. Big difference in launching the car off the line with traction bar. It help me to run 1.66 60ft .

[DLO01]

fair enough, would you say this is an alternative to upgrading the front suspension bushings?

Nope! Its like holding a bag of sand with your arm out horizontal to the side (like a control arm) If someone add another bag to it, your arm will move. The force has 'leverage' and is easy to move.

Now if you held this bag of sand with your arm down and vertical. (like a traction bar radius arm) and somone adds another bag, it will not move. Your in the line of force and supporting/resisting that force.

[Limbo]

hey mate where did you get that pic? it looks like my car from the bottom at one stage.



running KYB AGX on dc2r springs.... was previously set on 2 damp all round and felt crap.. set it to 3f/2r and it felt like a stock dc2r.. set it to 4f/3r tonight and it feels very nice.. who knows that may fix my bounce issue....

was looking into the traction bar coz this lower tie bar that does nothing at the moment makes my car lower than it should :( just don't have the heart to take it off at the moment at the chance it does improve something since i've already paid for and installed it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/dsp26/Maintenance/PIC00034.jpg

[EGB18CT]

ive got one made by spoolin performance, it was an l-con designed bar, same as full-race bar too, he purchased the design off them lot. Havn't tried it yet, will be running full alumin mounts so i doubt ill have any troubles, it's well made, beefy billet radius arms, proper eyelets etc... wort it for sure, its a must have item i believe if you track/drag.

[Limbo]

p.s i'm looking at getting a set also

[dsp26]

hey mate where did you get that pic? it looks like my car from the bottom at one stage.

lol its my car.. we have the same taste :p

[Limbo]

yeah cos i had 4-1 headers wrapped the same, use to have the same front brace & the static thingy also!

[IEVAQ8]

some quality info there deano...............

good on ya.....................i never new u had traction bars..............hehehe

[EG30]

Sorry. Benifits are under harsh accleration. The stock arms and bushes flex under forward and backward movement, ie under acceleration the tires want to move forward before the rest of the car. This is what causes your hop or unsettleness. The traction bar locks in this movement.

Apart from better traction at hard launches, can you feel an improvement of the front end's stiffness as the manufacturers claim? ie do they improve the front end's integrity under track conditions?

[DLO01]

Never used my car on the track. They will not affect the normal movement of your sussy. The arms just follow the travel of your sussy. I know some manufacturers say that the main bar strengethens up the front end. While this might be true, its hard to tell.

[bennjamin]

ok we have proof these are for the 1/4 mile , what about track tho ? anyone experienced for track work ?

A thought would be this doesn't allow enough frontal suspension movement to be beneficial for track work.

[lukecivic]

ok we have proof these are for the 1/4 mile , what about track tho ? anyone experienced for track work ?

A thought would be this doesn't allow enough frontal suspension movement to be beneficial for track work.

ive heard the same thing, thats why ive decided not to get them as they limit/restrict suspension movement

track> drag :D

[IEVAQ8]

i have confirmed with full race that they can be used for street driving and 1/4 mile, but they never mentioned how useful they are for track work, my assumption like above, is that they wont allow enough suspension travel..........................

[DLO01]

This is the thing of what makes a good one and a bad one. And it comes down to the design. A good traction bar setup will not hinder/restrict normal sussy movement.

It comes down to where the mount/pivot point is for the radius arms on the main bar. To get this exact point you draw a line through were the LCA is mounted and pivots on the car. Draw a line through this and where it intersects with the Main bar, this is your mounting point. By doing this the radius arm maintians the same length throughout normal sussy movement. So therefore it will not affect or hinder movment.

If this mount point is outside this axis point it will interfere with sussy movement.

I reckon yes more benificial for 'all' cars at the Drags, but also benificial for Track cars.

[dsp26]

^^^ i was also under the impression this would somewhat improve cornering traction at the fronts too?

[DLO01]

Like we have discussed, traction bars increases/locks in/stabilizes the rigidity of forward and backward movement. So I can only see it as a big plus all round.

[fatboyz39]

we are using a traction bar for track. Works great. Enough for 1.10's at wakie :P

[dsp26]

SOOOOOOLLLLLLDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

gonna start shopping for Full-Race or ETD..

[fatboyz39]

full race will be too exxy. ETD are nice. Search on honda-tech.

[DLO01]

Heres some more photos of mine as promised....

Main bar mount (passenger side (remove stock tow hook)) You can see the height adjustability with this ETD kit:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC06003.jpg

Radius arm/Main bar connection (Drivers side):
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC05999.jpg

Another view under car:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC05998.jpg

Another view under car:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC06001.jpg

LCA mount and radius arm connection (Drivers side LCA (all using existing bolt locations)):
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC06000.jpg

Picture of kit again:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a265/DLO01/Misc/ResizeofDSC05969.jpg

[Sexc86]

Does anyone get any rattleing from their traction bars?

[Bludger]

Apart from better traction at hard launches, can you feel an improvement of the front end's stiffness as the manufacturers claim? ie do they improve the front end's integrity under track conditions?(no insult intended as I'm the same:p)

but I don't think the man has ever put his car under track conditions.....
maybe someone else can help with this question.


edit : i had this page on last night and when i replied, i didn't bother refreshing and didn't realise it had moved on:o

[evil R34]

im running an avid racing traction bar on k-swaped ek and it works well on hard launches and seems fine in the twisties had to modify the splash tray under the front of the engine bay to fit though

[thebob]

I was always under the impress stock JDM CRX's come with traction bars or some form of.

[DLO01]

^^^ Yep, I think they do. :thumbsup:

[JohnL]

Does anyone get any rattleing from their traction bars?

Don't have 'traction bars', but I used to own a 'Clubman' style sports car (similar to a Lotus 7) that used spherical rod ends in the suspension (aka 'Rose joints'). There are two basic kinds of these rod ends that are used in suspension applications, where the sphere is held in a steel or bronze cage (metal to metal), or where there is a teflon liner between the sphere and cage. Both kinds will rattle once any wear has occurred between the sphere and the cage or teflon liner.

It's not really an issue unless the wear becomes excessive, though once a clearance exists dirt more easily gets into the joint and wear accelerates very quickly. The teflon lined ones are better because the tight fitting teflon liner 'self wipes' the dirt from the sphere before it gets in, but not forever. Also the teflon lined rod ends require no lubrication as do the metal to metal rod ends (i.e. the metal to metal rod ends need grease or oil), and grease or oil attracts dirt and turns into grinding paste...

There are also cheaper rod ends that have a nylon liner, but these are not very suitable because the liner pounds out in high load applications.

[JohnL]

Apart from better traction at hard launches, can you feel an improvement of the front end's stiffness as the manufacturers claim? ie do they improve the front end's integrity under track conditions?

They should do, because they will provide more stable geometry, i.e. since the longitudinal location of the wheel is stabilised the caster angle will remain the same under brakes or hard aceleration. This may have direct benefits for grip, but a lot of the benefit will be in the form of more consistant driver feedback. It removes a source of 'non-linearity', which is nearly always a good thing.

Unstable longitudinal wheel location causes force to 'wind up' in the suspension linkages controlling longitudinal location (i.e. metal flexure) and any associated rubber bushes. Once this 'wind up' reaches a point that the force that is 'stored' in the flexing component becomes more than the tyre's capacity to grip, then the force (added to tractive forces created by the brakes or acceleration) will cause the tyre to lose grip as the tension is released (i.e. losing grip will cause tension to be released, and tension can cause loss of grip, a chicken and egg thing...).

Preventing the 'wind up' (i.e. eliminating flexure) means no forces get 'stored' in the suspension components, and the tyres only have to deal with rotational forces created by the brakes or engine.

Sorry if that's explained poorly...

[e240]

Does this mean I'll do 1:08s if I mount this? ;) maybe next year's setup.


we are using a traction bar for track. Works great. Enough for 1.10's at wakie :P

[EG30]

I'll be installing the inno replacement x-member/traction bar on my ED9 as a way to rid of the horrid factory x-member. Still unsure if I would install a traction bar setup in my eg and dc2 down the track, as I have reservations about chopping up the splash shield to clear the traction bar and also the additional bar and attachment plate that mounts onto the LCA adds unsprung weight.

[bennjamin]

Originally Posted by fatboyz39 View Post
we are using a traction bar for track. Works great. Enough for 1.10's at wakie :P

take it off , i bet your times dont change :)

[EG5]

ok we have proof these are for the 1/4 mile , what about track tho ? anyone experienced for track work ?

A thought would be this doesn't allow enough frontal suspension movement to be beneficial for track work.


We used it with and without on our egk20a
A pro driver who drove our car said it made some differences.

[grumpy rooster]

In my opinion they cover up the inherent deficincies in engine swaps where driveshaft angles get mucked up by the placement of the engine in the engine bay. If you set your suspension up properly I believe you do not get any benefit from them. :)

[e240]

dangggg....and I was serious, I considered it before but was unwilling to spend the money just to test if it works


We used it with and without on our egk20a
A pro driver who drove our car said it made some differences.

Did he do back to back test?

[EG5]

dangggg....and I was serious, I considered it before but was unwilling to spend the money just to test if it works



Did he do back to back test?

yeah back to back but dont know how accurate it was

[Limbo]

Leo - i've got one on order, will tell you if i feel a difference, as i dun have an engine swap.
Also since i can't run a splash tray anyway it doesn't make any difference to me

[IEVAQ8]

i think i will also be purchasing one once my car is tuned and running............

that way i will hopefully be able to notice a difference